From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 20:47:22 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: BOC Net News #04 BOC Net News #04 iss.02Dec1997 / 04Dec1997 / 05Dec1997 Please accept my apology if you recieved prior mailshots PIPEX still appear to be having technical difficulties upgrading and we seem to be suffering from the backwash. GENERAL If you historically need to use Longlines or Word wrap etc... "Select it now! and reload this article, to avoid off screen " scrolling. WEB SITE Changes are now almost in place of which more detail later. I have reported a lack of info from BOC but have had expanded information from BRONZ about their Easter jaunt around the beauty spots of NZ to celebrate their first 50 years. It is worth noting that we should also be celebrating in 1998 the fiftieth anniversary of the Type 401 and successively the variants of the Aerodyne series. This will I think be a theme of the Club "display at the National Exhibition centre, though no one has " confirmed. On the car scene a 405 Drophead has surfaced in the USA. It was last listed by the club thought extinct in the early seventies. Apparently it is still a restoration possibility so that was a surprise. Also apparently a 406. They do seem to be popping up here and there. A very late Britannia was advertised recently which has extended the apparent span of production of that model substantially unless it was "reimported from foreign parts, which seems _not_ to be the case. " It was first registered in August 1991 and is chassis number 9539001. The PALAWAN PRESS book on BRISTOL Continues to be constructed. It will not be out for Christmas this year because data is still being compiled. The good news is that LJKS had set himself the task of writing a script of about 80k words. In fact when he really got stuck in to it it finally checked in at 120k words. Which means there will be much more data and fascinating history encapsulated. Some of you will be aware that the Photographer commissioned to take the catalogue of cars has been working throughout the summer at locations all over the place. I have seen some of the shots taken and they are real quality. If the rest are as good it will be a fabulous presentation. There are currently moves afoot to track down such cars as the 406 E and the Beutler drophead. I hope they can also be included. To give an idea of the breadth of the search cars currently in NZ and Australia are now in the brief to complete certain sections. I can't wait to see the final production. So you still have some time yet to save up for it. BOC WEB SITE There have been some substantial alterations to the site to appraise you of this time. First all the pages are now fully compliant with HTML W3.2C protocol. There might have been a few spelling mistakes. It is almost impossible for an author to proof read his/her own work. So fingers "crossed, it was substantially correct in that department too. " Because 1998 is the start of the progressive bicentenaries of the "Aerodynes I have added, to Type 401 page (courtesy in part to the " "Alfa Romeo 1900 Registrar who was at the Brooklands Concours), " details of the 401 Farina. The 401 Beutler is also covered.. Amongst many other items scattered throughout the site there is better cover of the 407 including the Viotti. For those of you with browsers capable of rendering animation there are a number of simple animated gif files now included. I have not added Frames at this stage because frankly they would not materially improve line loading speed. For those of you with text only or non animation capable browsers I have included the full text or static equivalent defaults to images. There are more inter page links and if you are not on the guided tour this might substantially improve page hopping to specific referenced items. Sadly I have noted the Frazer Nash Mille Miglia model image has not arrived and since we have lost direct access to the server it might take a couple of weeks to get that sorted. The Team.net webmaster is currently inundated with other club sites and alterations. If you spot any more items not loading and they are not in the images directories please let me know in order that I might get it sorted. Some of the new items carry a marker which will be removed at the next page change. There is more on the Type 411 page for example. Many other Type pages have additions. Sadly I still do not have details of the Re Prints page and there is nothing I can do about that. I have started to draft in some subject headings but that's about as far as I can get with it until I'm presented with the data. I apologized about this the last time so you know the score. SORN.... What is it... what does it do... who does it apply to? An acronym which stands for... Statutory Off Road Notification. Introduced by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority. As of 31st Jan 1998 this applies in the UK to all vehicles which are taxed on or after this date and are SUBSEQUENTLY taken off the road UNLICENSED for whatever reason. So if like me you take your car off the road for the winter but it is still licensed it does not apply. However gaps in replacement of Taxation procedure will be automatically noted and warning notices will be issued. If these are ignored there will be automatic issue of prosecution. Once a vehicle has been notified Off Road there will be a requirement "of confirmation of status ANNUALLY thereafter, and a reminder that " declaration is due will be issued in due time by the DVLA. This is part of a concerted campaign to eliminate TAX renewal delays "or ""month skipping"" actual Tax Evasion, which is costing taxpayers " "millions of pounds of Taxation Revenue, which is not currently " collected. Other taxes have go up as a result to address the loss. It is one of the reasons classic cars over 25 years old are now credited with Tax exempt status started 2 years ago. There will be more on this in either the Bulletin or the Newsletter. DATA for the BULLETIN or NEWSLETTER Editors. If you have anything for Bulletin Editor you can reach Chris Smithies by e-mail at; cpks@penop.com If you have anything for the Newsletter contact Cathy Crownshaw at; editor@bocnews.demon.co.uk Well that is about it. I have asked Lane Smytheman if he can organize "some pictures and a story of the BRONZ Bicentenary Tour, so we can " give it some coverage in the Bulletin too. If you have anything else to contribute you know the contact points. Finally I cannot contact you all by Snail Mail so may I take this opportunity of wishing the American readers a belated ;) " ""Happy Thanksgiving"" " "and to ALL of you my wishes that you have both, " " ""Merry Christmas"" and a very ""Happy New Year"". " "cheers, :)) " "PS. Practical Classics (January Issue) on News Stands etc., from " "tomorrow 6th December 1997, has promised an illustrated article on " Bristol Cars. Bob Charlton - Bristol Owners Club - http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ Message composed in Pluto beta v.0.37+ From: bristol@argonet.co.uk (Bob Charlton) "Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:50:23 BST " Subject: BOC Net News #03 BOC Net News #03 11Sep1997 COMPOSITION A couple of people have complained about the way their mail reader presents the text of these news letters. As some of you know I don't use a PC. I use an Acorn StrongARM powered RiscOS machine - a case of " ""INTEL outside - NOT fried inside"". " So if text is scanning off your screen you should stop and set your Long Lines Word Wrap NOW... or whatever your reader equivalent is of it. Then restart. That should sort it. My mail composer auto wraps at about 72 characters so if you use character wraps with a bit of experimentation you could match it that way too. Most of you will have no problems at all. BOC WEB SITE I have just changed the web site pages 'Events' and 'News'. If Australia or New Zealand or USA have updates or new events let me know I'll be happy to slot them in. As for UK what next? Hello! I apologise for the delay in the 'Reprint' page data I am still waiting for the authorized text. Since I haven't heard a single complaint about the Website quite the opposite in fact so I guess the rest must be working OK... said he touching wood... fingers crossed... etc.etc... We are almost at a recorded 3000 visits since the counter was installed. Perhaps our fame is spreading or the Search Engines are disappointing some poor souls who thought 'bristol' stood for something else??? ;)) I still need good colour pictures for the web site inclusion on the "Blenheim, and to slot in where missing on 411 etc. If you have any to " spare can you send them on? I have plenty 411s3 and 603 to S2 series but still need some of Britannia and Brigand. AUTOMOBILIA Have just received NEW 6th.annual edition of the Holden Catalogue. If you have not heard of it but are looking for electrical or general auto accessories then it comes very highly recommended. eg. Flicking quickly thro' the 'UNDERNEATH' section I spotted sets of Bristol 400/401/402/403 boxed sets of Copper/Alloy Brake pipes. "These are in boxed sets, cut to lengths, Brass fixings fixings pre- " "attached ends formed, and every pipe has a label telling you what it " ifs for and where it goes. This appears to be a new line. See p.100. Code 065.316 Cost 66.84 UKP net. eg. Noted in Lights section 7.5inch PF770 Headlamps and all fixings required are still listed in "both early and later formats, with or without backshells which are also " available. eg. Halogen conversion and emergency spare bulb kits are now available as well as thousands of other items. Cost of 130 page catalogue is 4UK pounds incl.postage in UK/EEC. This is an absolute must for restorers and owners. Now Holden is also on the Net with their web site at URL: http://www.holden.co.uk or you can e-mail: holden@holden.co.uk Contact details on their website. UK Tel.01885 488488 or FAX.01885 488889 EVENTS Have never heard how the Birmingham and Midlands Motor Museum of Transport meeting or BAMMOT went at 'Brum' but Michael Barton has kindly informed me that the Concours was well attended and most enjoyable - a good venue... A while since I heard _that_ comment! Hope next years is just as good. Hope to see some pictures in one of Chris Smithies future Bulletins. If you have anything for Bulletin Editor you can reach him by e-mail at cpks@penop.com If you have anything for the Newsletter contact Cathy Crownshaw at editor@bocnews.demon.co.uk Well that's about it for now. If you have changed your address or want to have you name removed from the circulation list let me know direct. If you know of a Bristol Club member or member of an associate Bristol "Club eg. Arnolt Registry, BOCA, BRONZ, who wants to get onto the " mailing list tell them to contact me direct or send me their name and "preferred contact details. Bear in mind this is not for ""unlimited"" " world wide distribution it is for Club and associated Club members info. SNIPPETS A friend of mine went to the garage and traded in his little car. One day later his father said he had bought a car. Guess which one it was... If they'd only talked to each other they each could have saved at least 500 UK Pounds!!! Does that take the biscuit or what? Absolutely finally - Claude Lewenz sent me an e-mail composed in the Channel Tunnel en route from France to London. After attending a Wedding in Bordeaux? He managed to be in Paris when Diana - Princess of Wales was killed... and in London a week later for the Funeral. Now that you're off to the next part of your trip to the far East "Claude I hope it is less eventful, and like the wedding much more " enjoyable. Keep us posted. This would make a brilliant story for the Bulletin... Chris are you onto it? "cheers 'til the next time, " Bob Charlton - Bristol Owners Club - http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ * This message comes to you via beta version 0.28b of Pluto * la1.pacbell.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id FAA28999 for 16 Apr 1997 05:53:28 -0700 (PDT) From: bristol@argonet.co.uk (BOC General Registrar) " 101761.2475@compuserve.com, bristols@oakview.demon.co.uk, " " d.r.evans@tees.ac.uk, geomowat@vossnet.co.uk, johnemery@dial.pipex.com, " " michael@jbl.nwnet.co.uk, richard.spira@chjs.co.uk, " " rstaton@cix.compulink.co.uk, simon@angelacampbell.co.uk, " " tsm@cix.compulink.co.uk, 101513.2500@compuserve.com, " " bristolcar@aol.com, cpks@penop.com, lcook@fs2.scg.man.ac.uk, " " puffer@cix.compulink.co.uk, bsbrbank@pacbell.net, " " rampant_ranger@msn.com, mcgou@msn.com, irie@iprolink.co.nz, " " ian_poll@euronet.nl, hdknox@next.com.au, gsmytheman@deloitte.co.nz, " " caples.julian.jwe@bhp.com.au, bristolcar@aol.com, " " acoombes@hk.super.net, 105517.200@compuserve.com " "Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 13:44:48 " Subject: ++ NetLink Bulletin Apr97 ++ It is some time since I issued a bulletin but there has been a quite lot ha ppening about which some of you may have read. I have been waiting for clar ification of some items but here is what has been revealed. The BIG NEWS is that Bristol Cars Limited have two new directors. These being reported by the Daily Telegraph Business News 29/3/97 as Arthur Silverton and his son Toby Silverton. QUOTE; """The owner of Bristol Cars one of Britain91s last independent luxury car " "manufacturers, has angrily rejected suggestions that he is to sell a 40pc " stake in the company. The business formed in 1946 as part of the Bristol A "ircraft Company, is owned by Tony Crook,74, who has run it for 40 years and " " maintains a secretive profile, declining to reveal it91s sales or commen " t about it91s operation. Rumours of a partial sale have been rife among i t91s enthusiastic following. One source suggested that a deal is being st "ruck to sell 40pc to Arthur Silverton, 69, of Basingstoke, and his son Tob " "y silverton, 40. They became directors of Bristol Cars last month. Mr Croo " k said this information is wrong-but he refused to comment on speculation t hat that he is planning to reduce his stake. He said 94We have not sold 40 pc of the company and it is not any business of anybody what we have sold. I have financed the company for 40 years. It is nobodies business whether I have 100pc or 97pc.. It is my company and if I want to sell a few shares t hen jolly good luck to me. We never discuss how many cars we make in a year ". We do not disclose anything else."" Mr Crook added: ""The company is in fin " "e fettle.It is making cars, we took a couple of orders yesterday for new c " ars and an order today for a new car.95 Bristol which still has it91s man "ufacturing base at Patchway, near Bristol, has a showroom in London91s Ke " nsington High St.. It still supplies spares for the original 1946 cars and it91s vehicles are popular with the rich and famous. New Bristol Blenhei m cars sell at up to A3140000. Actress Patsy Kensit is reported to have or dered on with a bed in the back as a present for her fiance Liam Gallaghe r of Oasis. However Mr Crook refused to comment saying: 94Many of the peo ple who buy cars from us do not want it known. To me all my owners are fam "ous"" " END OF QUOTE. The above article was written by Andrew Cave. Further there has been some fresh investment in essential spare parts. More detail of which will surely follow. At the 1997 AGM there were a large number of changes to the line up of exec "utive committee members and non exec members posts, these are as follows; " NEW COMMITTEE APPOINTMENTS Chairman Geoffrey Herdman (Harry Wareham was made Hon.Mem.) Hon.Secretary Geoffrey Hawkins (Brian Cuddigan was made Hon.Mem.) Hon.Treasurer Mike Barton (Geoffrey Herdman retired from post) REMAINING IN COMMITTEE POSTS Hon.Mem.Secy. John Emery Vice Chairman Dave Allen APPOINTEE (non exec) Bulletin Editor Christopher Smithies (Replacing Ray Cross) n.b. Initially to be assisted by Mike Cross ADDITIONAL (non exec) Events Secy. Andrew Stevens REMAINING (non exec) Competition Secy. Alexa Scott-Plummer General Registrar Bob Charlton Newsletter Editor Cathy Crownshaw Regalia Tony Biebuyck Spare Parts Coordination Dave Crownshaw There may be further committee co-opted (non exec/committee) appointments i n due course. SPARE PARTS Dave Crownshaw has been passed a list of parts items now available or under re-manufacture. In addition 2 litre radiator caps for the 400- 403 are to be re-manufacture d. Steering Rack bellows type gaiters for 400 - 406 are under also currently c onsideration. Dave has finally decided to succumb and go on-line. I will let you know his address as soon as he makes it known. (Geoffrey Herdman will also be on-li "ne, soon. Address awaited.) " WEB SITE DEVELOPMENT The web site will mirror the news items only of the quarterly News Letter. The web site will include a list of club re-prints available once the new v ersion is made available. Events items will also include details of the regional events nominated by the Events Secy. It is hoped that the website will include a Spare parts list. Though it may be practically difficult to include current prices. New Membership List is being composed and will be isssued to all current me mbers I expect in May. That's all for now folks. Hope this helps "cheers, " Bob Bob Charlton la1.pacbell.net (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id BAA29398 for Apr 1997 01:43:47 -0700 (PDT) From: bristol@argonet.co.uk (BOC General Registrar) " 101761.2475@compuserve.com, bristols@oakview.demon.co.uk, " " d.r.evans@tees.ac.uk, geomowat@vossnet.co.uk, johnemery@dial.pipex.com, " " michael@jbl.nwnet.co.uk, richard.spira@chjs.co.uk, " " rstaton@cix.compulink.co.uk, simon@angelacampbell.co.uk, " " tsm@cix.compulink.co.uk, 101513.2500@compuserve.com, " " bristolcar@aol.com, cpks@penop.com, lcook@fs2.scg.man.ac.uk, " " puffer@cix.compulink.co.uk, bsbrbank@pacbell.net, " " rampant_ranger@msn.com, mcgou@msn.com, irie@iprolink.co.nz, " " ian_poll@euronet.nl, hdknox@next.com.au, gsmytheman@deloitte.co.nz, " " caples.julian.jwe@bhp.com.au, bristolcar@aol.com, " " acoombes@hk.super.net, 105517.200@compuserve.com " "Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 09:36:11 " Subject: ++ NetLink Bulletin Apr97 addendum ++ "On Wed 16 Apr 97 (13:44:48), bristol@argonet.co.uk wrote: " > It is some time since I issued a bulletin but there has been a quite > lot happening about which some of you may have read. I have been > waiting for clarification of some items but here is what has been > revealed. > NEW COMMITTEE APPOINTMENTS Chairman Geoffrey Herdman (Harry Wareham was made Hon.Vice President not Hon.Mem.as was previously attributed) > Hon.Secretary Geoffrey Hawkins (Brian Cuddigan was made Hon.Mem.) > Hon.Treasurer Mike Barton (Geoffrey Herdman retired from post) > REMAINING IN COMMITTEE POSTS > Hon.Mem.Secy. John Emery > Vice Chairman Dave Allen > APPOINTEE (non exec) > Bulletin Editor Christopher Smithies (Replacing Ray Cross) > n.b. Initially to be assisted by Mike Cross > ADDITIONAL (non exec) > Events Secy. Andrew Stevens > REMAINING (non exec) > Competition Secy. Alexa Scott-Plummer > General Registrar Bob Charlton > Newsletter Editor Cathy Crownshaw > Regalia Tony Biebuyck > Spare Parts Coordination Dave Crownshaw At this point I should have also included; FBHVC representative Richard Peacock Reprints Arnold Bettess With apologies to anyone else I missed out in the original note. "cheers, " Bob Bob Charlton Jun 1997 03:10:08 -0700 (PDT) From: bristol@argonet.co.uk (BOC General Registrar) " irie@iprolink.co.nz, ian_poll@euronet.nl, hdknox@next.com.au, " " gsmytheman@deloitte.co.nz, caples.julian.jwe@bhp.com.au, " " bristolcar@aol.com, acoombes@hk.super.net, 105517.200@compuserve.com " "Date: Mon, 9 Jun 97 11:04:45 " Subject: BOC NetLink news Well here we are in the Classic Car season with members tripping off to "Norway to see the Fjords and Glaciers, and visit the Long Ships Museum as " well as breaking ground in the expansion of club activities for 1997. Here's hoping that there will be more of these extended trips and some in the UK too. As some of you may know from the circularised e-mail Claude M Lewenz is leaving the USA for pasture/pastures greener in New Zealand. From whence no doubt we will hear from him after his world tour en route. He also is leaving behind a well researched and contacted group of Bristol owners and Bristol engined car owners in the United States and Canada. Thankfully this potential void has been ameliorated by the offer of Peter "McGough of Calgary, Alberta, Canada to take on the post of North American " Registrar - for which thanks Peter. "You will now find contact details for Peter on the changed web site pages, " being /regions and /regrs. Look out for further exciting news from Peter in the very near future. A rare bird indeed has been found. My thanks have been expressed to Claude for all his efforts and hopefully one day there might even be further association of these members spread across that vast continent. Sadly we don't seem to hear much on the Arnolt front and I would be grateful if anyone can tell me if the Arnolt Registry is still alive and kicking in the USA. If it is not we may have to incorporate these cars into Peters' brief too. I have also taken the opportunity of trimming the /events page. Though I am advised by Andrew Stevens that there are a number of other events cropping up. For those of you overseas. You will be pleased to hear that Bulletin 112 dropped onto the mat this morning and you should receive yours shortly or ask why not. They are usually all mailed together. This latest edition is a collaboration between Mike Cross and Chris Smithies. As I understand it Chris will take full editorial control of the next edition. On the home front the Scottish Section had a good meeting at Mellerstain House in the Borders region on Sunday 1st.June. It was well attended and I was pleased to meet Rolf Knoory who had travelled from Cumbria to see the 400. We had six cars on the field which would have been eight if one member was not suffering from jet lag and the other car promised had turned up. I hope the cause of the latter was not a mechanical/electrical problem. Another welcome addition to the fold was Tim Norman with his excellent 404. A number of other persons not seen before were also made very welcome. We hope to see them and their cars at future Section meetings. "As aA0section. We have a new Scottish Secretary who is Keith M Bell, " Edinburgh and I am assured his contact details will appear in the next Membership List. Well that's all for now. Until the next time. "cheers, " Bob Bob Charlton From: bristol@argonet.co.uk (BOC General Registrar) " 101761.2475@compuserve.com, bristols@oakview.demon.co.uk, " " d.r.evans@tees.ac.uk, geomowat@vossnet.co.uk, johnemery@dial.pipex.com, " " michael@jbl.nwnet.co.uk, richard.spira@chjs.co.uk, " " rstaton@cix.compulink.co.uk, simon@angelacampbell.co.uk, " " tsm@cix.compulink.co.uk, keith_bell@pet.hw.ac.uk, " " alan.thomson@ed.ac.uk, jonb@netinfo.co.uk, skelton@mcmail.com, " " 101513.2500@compuserve.com, bristolcar@aol.com, cpks@penop.com, " " lcook@fs2.scg.man.ac.uk, puffer@cix.compulink.co.uk, mcgou@msn.com, " " 105517.200@compuserve.com, bsbrbank@pacbell.net, " " rampant_ranger@msn.com, irie@iprolink.co.nz, ian_poll@euronet.nl, " " gsmytheman@deloitte.co.nz, caples.julian.jwe@bhp.com.au, " " bristolcar@aol.com, acoombes@hk.super.net, hdknox@ozemail.com.au " "Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 01:24:20 " Subject: Club Net News #01 There have been a substantial number of changes in the Club Web site this m onth and the most obvious of these is the improvement in the graphics throu ghout the site. Still short of pictures of some car types on the gallery pa ges marked under construction. Can any of you supply pictures of the missin g or less well illustrated types? Perhaps a little less obvious is the fact that the page links have been str "eamlined and as a result are more practical in use, and pages faster to loa " d. "Hint... if you want real speed, leave images switched off until you find th " "e page you want, then switch images on. " The links to the REPRINTS page are in place and await information from the Reprints Officer. Have had no reports of the Meeting at the Birmingham and Midlands Museum of " Transport, can anyone help. Will it become an annual club event? if you we " re there...perhaps a report to the Bulletin? Send it to the editor. That item will shortly be deleted from the EVENTS page. I would however draw your attention to a quite spectacular event being host "ed by BRONZ, which if you don't know, (you really should read the site page " s) is the Bristol Register of New Zealand. It promises to be a leasurely point to point tour of the country with pre a "rranged overnight accommodation, led by the Bristol Cars and owners, though " others are apparently to be allowed to follow. The jaunt will take place i "n Spring 1998. It will last at least two weeks, possibly three. Contact det " ails are on the EVENTS page. By all accounts it will be quite fabulous. Those interested should let the organisers know before 1st September. This is a chance of a lifetime to see the treasures of the countryside with the benefit of local guides. "Lane Smytheman, the New Zealand Registrar, has been spreading the word on v " isits to a number of sections recently whilst enjoying a holiday trip to th e UK. "Brief accounts of the Norwegian expedition, also run on these lines, sugges " t that these jaunts are both enjoyable and informative. Trygve KrogsE6ter did such a good job organizing the event that there has been a call for it to be repeated perhaps in 1999. See NEWS page As many of you may not be aware the preparation for THE Bristol book contin ues and chosen cars are reported scheduled to be photographed during the ne xt couple of months. We are still trying to locate the Beutler drophead and the 406 Beutler can anyone help? No release date has been confirmed so be on the look out for launch adverts in the Classic Car press perhaps later i n the year. The BOC Concours in September takes place amidst a spectacular Historic Fly ing Display and those of you intending to attend would be well advised to a pply for your 20% discount tickets to gain fast track access on the day. Se "e last Newsletter, the next issue, and of course the EVENTS page. " The 400 gathering in Lanark turned out to be the only completely dry and ho t sunny day in the month June. So the sun does shine on the righteous! ;) The next Scottish Section event will be the Blackwood Murray Memorial run w hich takes place on Sunday 17 August at Biggar. Start time 1300hrs. This is the 99th.anniversary of the formation of his company. Next year it expected that over 500 vehicles will take part in the Rally. Who was David Blackwood Murray? What was his company? you may ask... Well in 1898 he founded and manufactured Albion vehicles starting from dogc "arts, to heavy cars by WW1 and finally commercial vehicles. " Thus he was established prior to the origins of the Bristol Aeroplane Compa ny by just 12? years... End of potted history. "For our part in 1998 I hope we will all be celebrating ""50 years of the 401 " """. " Guess that's all for now... hmm... except of course... if you spot any erro "rs (what are they?) in the website pages do let me know, so I can attempt t " o put them right. "cheers, Bob " Bob Charlton From: Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:36:27 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: NetNews #05 NetNews #05 Once again there have been some happenings worthy of note so I've put pen to one side and ply my one fingered style at the keyboard. First I was surprised as a few others have been to receive an envelope from our Chairman Geoffrey Herdman asking for my fees as Treasurer. Hmm...I thought Michael Barton was the Treasurer... but after a quick phone call it was explained to me by our Hon.Secy.Geoff (the other one) that it had been agreed; a) that there would be a year to let Michael get things organized and " b) at the end of it the Reins, Horse and Waggon would be fully " transferred. Just as well... ;) because I'd already posted Michael my cheque. So take this as a gentle reminder that membership Fees are now due : (the exception being those of you who have recently joined the fold new and were given discretionary passage from the tail end of last year unto December 31st. 1998). Oh! and of course our Honorary Members who I presume don't get this annual mailshot? A number of you are reading this epistle for the first time and if you do not wish to suffer my prose ever again an Email in reply will see you wiped off the list. But a warm welcome to the Club anyway to you all. ;) "Congratulations to you too David, Cathy and Nicholas Crownshaw. My " you have had a bumper Christmas this year by your account in the long awaited CLUB NEWSLETTER. Items worthy of the Next Newsletter ought to be sent to Cathy Crownshaw Newsletter Editor at; editor@bocnews.demon.co.uk it is "mis-spelt in the Newsletter but it was, it was explained typed at a " furious pace and we know why now. ;)) ### Now on to the main event ### I have beeen faxed the release notes of the 'Blenheim 2' by Geoff.Hawkins (good man that;-) It was unveiled to the Press and according to Tony Crook Information packs were sent out to 1400 "hundred locations, phew! someone else has been busy, and so I have " composed a new page / and altered pages for the club Web Site. Yes it's been just a little bit busy this past week-end as you'll see. The following new or altered pages to our Club Web Site are _NOW_ already on line! ; 1. The News page note about the Blenheim has been altered. It now " also contains a hot link to view the Bristol cars Ltd. Web Site, " which I have to commend. I have told Tony Crook so too! It is very nicely bound together. Pity about some of the spelling " mistakes, but I am none too perfect in that department, (nuff sed) " so I won't be casting any stones. :)) 2. The Gallery page now has a hot link to the all New 'Blenheim 2' page. 3. The 603 page references to the New Blenheim have been cleaned up and the guided tour links altered to incorporate the 'Blenheim 2' page. 4. The NEW Blenheim 2 page has been created from the data offered to " Geoff.Hawkins, and those others attending in the press pack, for " the 'Press Pack'... and I have managed (to borrow shall we say) " some images and descriptive change notes, which might be " recognizable. "I have lightened the images a little, and altered the speed of the " "animated gif sequence of what looks like a 603s3 Blenheim, or " BlenheimA01 car under construction. I think personally they are now better as now set at a 400centisecond interval in the display. But it really depends how your own set-up "displays them, and of course I am prejudiced but, " " ""You can't make a Silk Purse out of a Sows' Ear"". " I did ask Tony Crook if he would like a link to his Company site or "Company reference from the Blenheim 2 page, thinking of it in the " form of a 'quid pro quo' if only for the number of people he has "kindly steered towards the Bristol Owners Club, over the years, but " he clearly indicated that it was probably best not to have links with "the Company Name and Address from a multitude of places, as it might " lead to confusion in the minds of his prosective customers. He expressed his hope that the new Bristol book will set right many of the mistakes oft reiterated by the 'Press'. I hope that too. "Facts, facts and more facts would be wonderful indeed. " Graeme Browne has offered himself and his services as the Bulletin Editor and you can contact Graeme by Email at; graeme@semat.co.uk I know this is not the address given in the latest NEWSLETTER but I have checked and either will do. Our thanks go to Ray Cross's son Mike who stepped quickly 'into the "breech' and also to Chris Smithies, for tiding us over. " Chris's last 'Bulletin' should be in the post any day now. I know we have not had a many Bulletins this last year but it has not been without its difficulties. Graeme holds out the prospect of his first edition ca.March and before the AGM so we'll all have give him what support we can. If any of you have any interesting things to tell or pictures to supply... please send them to ; "Graeme Browne, BOC Bulletin Editor, " either by Email to the address already given or by Snail Mail to ; "89, Lakeside Road, Palmers Green, LONDON, N13 4PS. " or call on Name and address data are also on page 1 of the current Membership "List, because Graeme is also the Type 401 Registrar " In the meantime enjoy what is one of the best looking V8's ever IMHO. At the URL: http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ "or if you like at another source, " http://www.bristolcars.co.uk/ A revised chassis listing of Type 401 cars will be available shortly and as promised in this the 52nd year of Bristol Cars production and the 50th. anniversary of the introduction of the Type 401. I have no other salient items to impart so I'll close. 'bout time too did I hear you say? "cheers, " Bob Bob Charlton From: BOC General Registrar "Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:36:31 +0100 " Subject: Net News #07 Welcome yet again to more new club members and I hope you all find this of interest. ROAD TEST "It seems that 'Top Gear' Magazine, issue 59, August, price 3 UK Pounds " has a road test and pictures of a new Blenheim 2. No prizes for guessing its registration but as some of you I know like "to collect these articles I thought you'd like to know, and I thank " Geoff Hawkins for passing this on. WEB PAGES I haven't much to report on the web pages this time but am expecting data from Arnold about the Chassis List reprints. In the meantime I'm trying to update all the changes in the Chassis list records from the 1998 Membership Book. It takes time.. I am still collecting "photographs for the Gallery, and if you can manage it don't forget " Silverstone where the Club marquee will be offering a fine collection of cars to view. What I have done most recently is to add the details of the 1st Annual """Jewel of India Classic Rally"" which is to take place very early next " year. Just the ticket if you want to get away from our winter weather for a month. there is a link to the rally information pages and I have included a sketch itinerary. I can also report that the lag between posting to Utah University via Cornell University and the pages appearing has been substantially reduced and there have been a number of cosmetic changes and a link sorted that was pointed out to me not functioning correctly. For that info thanks it all helps. The changes are reflected on the shadow web site. 400 to BLENHEIM The remaining original stock of '400 to Blenheim' has been recovered from the depths of John Emery's warehouse - where they were carefully "placed for safekeeping to instruction by the Storeman, who then was " removed from this mortal coil and it has taken much effort to retrieve them and to pass them on to Arnold Bettess our club Reprint Officer. Arnold in turn has told me that the remaining stock will be sold at 10 UK Pounds per copy + 2.50 UK Pounds postage to all EEC addresses. Non EEC it is air mail rates as applicable. If you want an 'original' copy contact Arnold per your Membership List inside front cover. If you haven't received one you should have. "So ask they were delivered about two? weeks ago, maybe a bit longer " since? Remember Gold foil embossed 4 post Binders are available from the Regalia Officer. Can't remember if that is on the Shadow website Regalia page. ...It ought to be. Contact me or any Club officer and they will give you Arnold's address and Telephone Number. Arnold is now on E-mail but he is still learning the keys to press and has asked not to be put onto Internet contact until he has read the Instruction Manual. ;) NEW CHASSIS LISTS There are updates of 400 Chassis List and 401 Chassis List both are missing from the shadow website... but again if you want to bring your copy of 400 to Blenheim up to date contact Arnold. BULLETIN The good news is that Graeme Browne our Magazine Editor is pasting his first 'Bulletin' together and we should have it through the post shortly I am told. BRISTOL by SETRIGHT by PALAWAN News of the Bristol book from Palawan Press is that it is expected to be out before Christmas - hmm... seems that was what I was told last year - but I'm assured it really is right this time. It is larger than originally intended and sorry no hints on price but it will be expensive. So keep saving. Well that's all for now. Until the next time adieu... Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club website : http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id IAA12871 for ; "Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:47:26 -0700 (PDT) " From: BOC General Registrar "Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:40:21 +0100 " Subject: Sept Classic Cars Just a note to let those of you who have access to it but who perhaps do not subscribe on a regular basis that the 'September' edition of Classic Cars(aka Thoroughbred and Classic Cars abroad?) in the UK shops now has in it a 'Profile' of one TAD CROOK written by Leonard Setright. p.104-108 incl. A byline about the new Palawan Press book on Bristol by Setright. Pictures of the Bristol 401 on the Louis Vuitton Classic China Run May25-30 one of only Fifty cars which took part. p.16 "Bristol 411 and why I own one by Andrew MJ Blow, p.65 " "cheers, " Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club website : http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA12717 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:02:49 -0700 (PDT) " From: BOC General Registrar "Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:59:01 +0100 " Subject: #NetNews08 Welcome yet again to more new club members and our first in new member located China (Oh! well OK then...since the HK territories were handed back) I hope you all find this of interest. UP to date MAGAZINE COVERAGE "Once again 'Classic Cars' magazine November Issue in the shops now, " has an article about a Bristol car. This time its the turn of the Type 400 chassied Farina almost completely restored by Spencer Lane-Jones pages 86-92 include some good pictures. IN ARREARS Last Months (October edition) of Classic Cars p88-99 Group test includes Bristol 409 Last Months (October edition) of Classic & Sportscar p.151 story of a FNLMR WHAT's UP? Its been a time of sorting out the 'Wheat from the Chaff' recently and "nothing to do with Harvest Festival, just time for sorting the " records ready for the next years influx of new subscriptions. "Hopefully hitherto unrecorded cars, and replotting the changes of " "Registration Marks, and those which have just fallen by the wayside. " BRISTOL BOOK LAUNCH The big item of news this time is that at last the Bristol Book is ready. We'll have an advert and details on the Shadow web site real soon now. So with luck some of you will get a nice Christmas present and the rest of us will simply _have to_ break the Pig. PIPEX V90 PROTOCOL BOMBS OUT FTP TO UTAH aaaarrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!!! Its been a taxing time since the last NetNews... I suppose I knew it was tempting fate saying all was well! Mainly because Pipex have made "a /dogs breakfast/ of upgrading to V90 protocol, and in the process " killed the FTP facility to the Utah Web Site. All ISPs on the Pipex network have all been complaining - but it seems their Chairman is more interested in building another New Town! near Cambridge... and naturally that takes priority over a small thing like keeping the system going! or should I say _NOT_ going! Apparently what happens is that the new 'handshaking routines' are instigated at irregular periods during transmissions between modems in order to verify the validity of the traffic and in doing so upset the FTP links... either switching them off or breaking the link itself. Clever stuff and quite amazing noone seems to have thought of it before hand. So for the moment all updates are on the 'Shadow web site' and 'Utah' is annexed. I have been promised beta software to get round this problem but its not arrived yet. Sorry for you our friends on the Pacific rim I know the Utah Server suited you better... but as I "have said, its out of our hands and over to Pipex. Indeed just as " well we made provision for these sort of circumstances in plenty of time by developing a second resource site and private club pages on the ArgoNet Server (shadow) site. 1998 Concours at CALKE ABBEY The concours was reasonably well attended but notice was relatively short and that was reflected in the turnout down I'd guess some 15-20%. Those who managed were able to view a Blenheim 2 brought along by "Tony Crook and Toby Silverton, and it was reported 'ecstatic' that it " is selling better than hoped - indeed the factory are being stretched to keep up with the orders. Good news in these precarious times. The venue 'Calke Abbey' itself raised little comment which suggests it was a really good choice. Hopefully next year plans will be laid and detailed earlier. WHAT NEXT The next open club event will be the Chairman's Dinner which has been advertised as you know or you should on the events page at both web sites for some time now. LOOKING AFTER THE CAR 'Little EVA' (my 400 in case you didn't know) has passed her MoT test last week... and will shortly be retiring to her 'Carcoon' for the next 4 months. Perhaps as a warning we had our first hard frost last night. This plastic bubble vented by a couple of tiny computer type fans one blowing and one sucking - both fitted with large foam filters (to keep the dust and bugs out) was purchased from the Midlands factory (ex/america) and has been an excellent aid to preservation. "It has reduced, indeed eliminated condensation, and the brightwork is " "as good when the car comes out in the Spring, as it was when it was " polished prior to storage at the beginning of November. Not even any dust settlement thanks to the moving air and the efficient little filters. I can thoroughly recommend the use of the article if any of you have pondered the idea. It really does work. As a guide the '400' fits a size 4 with a few inches to spare at each end. The only extra job is to lower the aerial to the roof to avoid bending it or puncturing the plastic. I'm afraid we get far too much Rock Salt spread on our roads in Scotland to justify the risk of running the old car right through the Winter months. NEWSLETTER EDITORIAL CHANGES Cathy Crownshaw's plea for a Newsletter Editor was met by Adrian Berry also appointed to the new post of Club Archivist - and so all future Newsletter items to Adrian please at alberry@csi.com or the address in your membership list for 1998. "Thanks for all your hard word Cathy, you and David were such bricks " keeping the Newsletter churning out with such regularity when the Bulletin was busy undergoing such a tempestuous transmutation after Ray Cross had to let slip the reins. His shoes have proven exceeding hard to fill. >From my own standpoint I think Graeme Browne's first issue was splendid and he needs all the support we can provide to maintain the level quality and the variety of articles. BOC goes DIGITAL and in Karma too! ;) I got a phone call a few weeks back demanding 'could I please locate a Bristol 401 for use in a film with Michael Palin' the event was planned for less than seven days later mid-week on either the tuesday or the Wednesday! I can assure those of you not involved with the media that this is _quite typical._ After a hectic session of consultation of the records Keith Mainland's car was one of 4 which qualified being " a) within reasonable distance of the area of the shooting, " b) of the correct type and c) declared on the club records as being in running order. The fact that it was not the requested colour - I told the researcher was most unfortunate - but that they clearly had little idea how "difficult it is the fit all of the parameters, especially when such " cars are so rare. The colour mismatch was accepted. "So I contacted Keith, whom I'd never met, and was greatly relieved " when he said he would like to try 'treading the boards' for a day. So he and his car are now being edited into an advert for one of the new Digital TV Cable Channels. Keith is driving in the long shots and Michael Palin in the close ups. Some of you in the UK may recall already having seen Michael Palin in these adverts the Bristol one is an episode in a complete series. I have asked Keith to compose an article for the Bulletin so whilst his name may not be up in lights it will at least be on the page. I won't spoil this by saying any more and leave Keith's prose and pictures to enthral you. Where the Karma comes in is that Keith's parents it transpires live only a few miles from me and he was to visit them very shortly "afterward, so we met when he rang the doorbell and then we discussed " "our cars, albeit too briefly, just one week later! Isn't life " strange? and the world so small! Another note will be issued when details of the NEW Bristol book are available and I expect a new page on the web site too I'll let you know. "cheers, Bob " Cc: Geoff Hawkins FIO Committee Members not on E-mail facility PS. Pleased to report Site Visit Counter shows over 8000 visits since "counter installed, making a rough estimate of over 8500 visits since " the Web Site was originally launched on the University of Utah Server... :)) Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club website : http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ "Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:05:18 -0800 (PST) " From: BOC General Registrar "Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:51:00 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: NetNews #08A NetNews #Special Offer to BOC Members Those of you in the UK will have by now received or very shortly will receive your introductory offer to enable you to obtain the New Bristol Book - Commissioned as a Limited edition set of two volumes and printed by Palawan Press. It is named; " A PRIVATE CAR An Account Of The BRISTOL " "There are in fact Two Volumes in the production, measuring 290mm x " 333mm each; There is a total production of 1000 copies. "Forty cars are illustrated in full colour, other illustrations " "include early photographs of Bristol trams, aircraft, and other " "products, of people associated with the company, even of the 1940 " Blitz. Volume 2 Comprises chapters as described below; " Proemium " "1. OVERVIEW " " The full story abridged " "2. CREDENTIALS " " Bristol History to 1945 " "3. OPPORTUNITIES " " The need for diversification: Rockets, Prefabs, GRP, BMW, AFN " "4. REALISATION " " 400 " "5. DEFINITION " " 401 / 2 / 3 " "6. RACING RATIONALE " " AFN, Cooper, AC, others, including ERA, engine development, 450 " "7. SHORT CHASSIS " " 404, Arnolt " "8. END OF THE BEGINNING " " 405 " "9. BEGINNING OF THE END " " Prototype Engines and chassis, Rationalisation of aero industry, " 406 (including S and Zagato) "10. BENT EIGHTS " " (i) Chrysler, 407, 408/ 9/ 10 (ii) 411, 412 " "11. 360 CUBIC INCHES " " 603, Turbocharging, Beaufighter (412s3), Brigand (& Britannia), " Blenheim "12. PEOPLE " " Whites, Smiths, Storey, Sevier, Crook, Dennis " "13. THE FUTURE " " luxury, performance, survival " STANDARD VERSION : presented bound in 94Buckram Cloth95 form with a protective full colour Buckram 94Slip case95 SPECIAL VERSION : presented bound in 94Quinel Nubuck Leather95 form with a 94drop back box95 This version also offers a photo of your choice from the Gallery provided. "EDITION PRICE Delivery UK Delivery EEC outside EEC " " " "Standard vers.300 UKP (included) add 20 UKP add 50 UKP " "Numbered 001-399, " Numbered 499-602 and Numbered 604-1000 "Special vers.600 UKP Add 10 UKP add 30 UKP contact publisher " "Numbered 400-498, " and Number 603 An introductory offer to club members is NOW open BUT only _for orders placed_ and monies received _prior to 31 November 1998_ "EDITION*Club Price Delivery UK Delivery EEC outside EEC " "Standard vers.240 UKP (included) add 20 UKP add 50 UKP " numbers as stated above. "Special version (Nubuck) 535 pounds Add 10 pounds add 30 " pounds contact publisher Numbers as stated above* *except that Numbers 400 to 412 inclusive and Number 603 are _EXCLUDED_ from the special offer to club members. If you are reading this and _YOU ARE NOT already a current club member - you may well now consider it worthwhile joining the BOC immediately. In the circumstances we are allowing a special dispensation just this year. Join now paying the Full Annual Fee and your Membership will cover the year _1999 in full_. Fees inside EEC are 30 UK pounds or equivalent via methods below. Fees outside EEC are 35 UK pounds or equivalent via methods below. In doing this you will thus qualify for the discounted club offer. This would save you a minimum of; in UK 30 UKP EEC 30 UKP outwith EEC minimum 30 UKP Should you wish to obtain one of the AVAILABLE Quinel Nubuck leather bound editions (N.B.Some are withheld from the club offer as described earlier) of course you will still be able to save proportionately MUCH more. I wish I could include illustrations (sorry not practical) but naturally some of you will in any case _as existing_ club members receive details shortly from Palawan Press. It should be noted that Palawan Press already have a list of current club members qualifying. _NEVERTHELESS_ this offer _ALSO_ applies to _NEW MEMBERS_ "who _join NOW_ before the offer deadline, and subject to receipt of " "payment to both the Club CURRENCY or CHEQUE DRAWN ON UK BANK, and " likewise appropriate payment to the Publisher which may be made by Credit Card or Currency or Cheque Drawn on UK bank. These persons will receive an authenticated club number from the Membership Secretary to quote IN ORDER to qualify for the CLUB DISCOUNTED RATES. THE CHOICE IS NOW YOURS! "I hope this is of interest, " For those of you with WWW access Full contact details for BRISTOL OWNER'S CLUB Membership Secretary and a membership form are on the Club Web site address as below in signature. If you have received a FAX of this document it is assumed you do not have Email or WWW access notified so you can contact BOC Membership Secretary John Emery at ; "VESUTOR Ltd., " "Marringdean Road, Billingshurst, West Sussex, RH14 9EH. England " Telephone : +44 (0) 1403 784028 or should you have Email access only "E-mail your enquiries to: johnemery@dial.pipex.com"" " Please note that some methods of payment attract _very high_ Bank charges in the conversion. These can be avoided by paying in one of the four following ways: 1: Eurocheque with Cheque Card No. on the back. 2: Sterling Draft drawn on a London Bank. 3: Sterling Travellers' Cheque. 4: Cash. All Major Currencies (except Japanese Yen) are suitable. Contact details for Palawan Press are as follows ; "PALAWAN PRESS Ltd., " "11, Royal Crescent Mews, LONDON, W11 4SY., England " Telephone : +44 (0) 171 371 3060 Facsimile : +44 (0) 171 371 4080 Email : publish@palawanpress.demon.co.uk "hope this helps, " Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club website : http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id FAA10029 for From: BOC General Registrar "Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:32:00 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: NetNews Report Dudley Hobbs It is with regret that I have to tell you that Dudley Hobbs Chief Designer at Bristol Cars for many years has died. His family have expressed the wish that some Bristol cars would be in "attendance at the Funeral to be held at Horfield Parish Church, " Bristol on 25th November at 12 noon. "If any owners wish to attend the service with their cars, as a " tribute and send off - it has been intimated that it would be very much appreciated by the family. "I understand that a book is currently being written by Dudley's Son, " (also a designer working with British Aerospace) covering his "father's lifetime achievements, and of course the development of the " Bristol Car is also covered in the latest Palawan Press production. Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club website : http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id HAA24519 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:59:26 -0800 (PST) " From: BOC General Registrar "Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:47:17 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: NetNews#09 First a warm welcome to those of you who are new readers. If you need to - please set your long lines wrap now or your text may well vanish off the right hand side of the screen (if you use certain PC packages). I have a number of important new items to bring to your attention but in the interests of accuracy I'm waiting for some confirmations. Thus this is a note to update you on a couple of interesting points and advise of Bristol coverage in current magazines. DUDLEY HOBBS Thank you to those who responded to the very late request to attend the funeral of Dudley Hobbs in their Bristol cars. I believe a tribute written by the Chairman will appear in the Bulletin. The Hobbs family were very pleased their request had an appropriate response and were particularly glad that one of the vehicles was a 603. For it was apparently Dudley Hobb's favourite design. The family expressed their thanks to those attending and to the BOC. CAUSING CONFUSION WHILST SELLING BRISTOL CARS Yes that's the BRISTOL OWNER'S CLUB! It has been drawn to my attention that the BOC Website has been frequented by a number of customers to Bristol Cars who have mistakenly thought they were actually visiting the official http://www.bristolcars.co.uk site. I confess I'd never thought that likely given the number of club references there are on the site. However... As a result Mr Crook telephoned and asked me to change all badges bearing only the word 'BRISTOL' that they ought to display the words 'OWNERS CLUB' too. I was pleased to do this :-) as at long last it offered me a cast iron reason to persuade the Webmaster at WWW.TEAM.NET that our original design was more valid. He having originally requested that the words OWNERS CLUB be removed from the badge to bring it in line with all the other car marques represented by club pages on /www.team.net/:-\ It was also requested that a public disclaimer statement be placed on the index(Home Page) to the effect /that the site had no connection whatever to do with Bristol Cars Ltd. /:-\ I wasn't prepared to acquiesce to the latter - because there is more than adequate reference to it being a 'club site' representing primarily one marque - amongst all of the other 'club sites' located on the 'www.team.net' space. Words to that effect also appear in the HTML construction script of every page - plus an attribution appears in the title bar displayed _on some_ machines along with the page name... This may not show directly on all of your various web browser displays or printouts. If you normally see a page title and name in the frame surround I'd be pleased if you could let me know... it may be peculiar to the "'perhaps alien to you' Risc Operating System I use, at the " moment I confess I really don't know the actual spread. "However... in my letter of response to Mr Crook, as well as " confirming the technical changes required had been dispatched for "insertion or replacement as needed, and conveying the thought that " the Club Members would be pleased to know that they had been helping to boost the fortunes of both himself and his company via our more public website. "I said that I would not insert any reference to Bristol cars website, " nor a disclaimer paragraph. I did state that a link to Bristol Cars website would remain in a more suitable place. (Where it always has been). I wonder how many of you found it? If you have not it's on the News page in the Blenheim 2 announcement report. To get into the "bristolcars site, you have had to 'select click' on the 603 badge on " the front page to get the second page and index loaded. CLASSIC CARS Once again this months Classic and SportsCar Magazine Jan. edtn. Volume 17 No.10 p.112 contains a Bristol story... it has seen fit to do a trial comparison of two stately carriages pitching a mere RR Silver Shadow against Gerry Acher's Type 411s4. The report as usual covers a few pages and I think it is fair to say that from the driving point of view the 411s4 was the preferred vehicle. A good read anyway. Guess which won the writers vote...;) There is another handy snippet in the Problems Solved pages. REPRODUCTION Tax Discs ---------------------- The firm who can give you a reproduction of your original pattern Tax Disc for the Month and Year in which it was first road registered. "Properly filled with registration number and vehicle details, can " take its place in your car window alongside the statutory one(in UK)... At least whilst you have the car at a rally or off road event. Sensible not to irk PC.49 if you are stopped bearing the two on the "public highway. See Earlswood Reproductions, contact at Tel.+44 (0) " 1252 838852 Earlswood can supply discs for any year from 1921 to 1974 UKP 14.95p plus 50pence post and packing(UK). ORIGINAL and UNISSUED Tax Discs ------------------------------- If however you want a genuine original tax disc from the right period contact Mike Smith on +44 (0) 1296 651283 - he has a huge stock! I guess then fill in your own details. No price stated. BRISTOL BOOK A number of readers have taken up the offer made by Simon Draper of a substantial discount to the price of the Bristol two volume set on the marque with text written by Leonard Setright. These were promised would be delivered on or after 16 December 1998. I hope that the production will in due course be reviewed in our Club Bulletin as well as in the mainstream Motoring magazines... and that "it just might might steer more aspiring, or existing owners towards " the club too. OTHER MAGAZINES """Tirage Limite"" a high classA0Magazine produced in Holland for " mainland Western Europe consumption will be featuring Bristol (the car) in its next edition ...to assist in this I have provided links to make suitable local contacts. Teb Marius is assisting. This is but the the most recent of a number of specialist "publications to feature the marque. The last reported was ""the " "Subcontractor"" in Sweden, following excellent historical coverage in " """european cars"" publ. in California written by Matt Stone and one of " his associate's impressions of the 407 Zagato of Anatoly Arutunoff. Other specialised coverage of the marque has been given in magazines circulated in Japan and Brazil --+-O-+-- More news very soon....? In the meantime can I also take this opportunity of wishing you all - A 'Merry Christmas' and a very 'Happy Hogmanay' "...until the next time good health, " "Beatha agus Slainte, Cyfarchion y Timor, Felices Fiestas, Meilleurs " "Voeux, and of course it is - Seasons Greetings ;)) " Bob Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club website : http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ Shadow Site : http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/charlton/www/bristol/ Club Services : http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/charlton/www/bristol/service.html From: BOC General Registrar "Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:36:49 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: NetNews#10 no... not on the move - we've moved! "I have a number of important new items to bring to your attention, " and much quicker than I thought it would be when I wrote the last letter. WEB ACCESS As you know there have been a number of problems for me gaining access to the USA site principally engendered by PIPEX the backbone supplier to my ISP ARGONET. Both are extending their networks and suitable transitional software has proved of little use in keeping the lines open long enough to transmit large items to the team.net webmaster in NY for onward transmission to Utah. Now at last we have V.90 access available and I quote; V.90 now operational -------------------- ArgoNet has completed the implementation of our expanded range of "services which now include ISDN (64K), 56K X2, K56flex and the new " V.90 standard. To take full advantage of the 56K and ISDN services the correct dial-up telephone number must be used. [snip] Even faster Web server ---------------------- The migration of our hosted Web sites to our new London-based server is progressing and all the users should be moved in the next few "months. Sitting directly on the Internet backbone, ArgoNet's Sun " Ultra2 server will help us to continue providing a high speed service "(ArgoNet came second, ahead of Demon and UUnet, in the recent " 'Internet.Works' server download tests). ....erm yes! and however they achieved that did not help me at all! But it does raise some other 'spin off' interests voiced by some of you. The prospect of a suitable _Domain_ for the club resources and such "things as adverts and an active mailing list, where problems and " answers could be more widely raised and discussed. As the next step a suitable DOMAIN name has now been secured and "registered, it is ""boc.net"" without the quotes of course.... " Fortunately the committee had this matter raised by our Hon.Treasurer "Michael Barton, some many Moons - OK well lunar months ago - when " everything including me - was fresher and greener in this scenario. So when the chance of a special offer was made to us for Christmas I snapped it up and thus on Argonet - now host of the primary website location of the website has its URL address changed to ; http://www.boc.net/bristol/ PLEASE DO NOTE: --------------- Text case _is_ critical in URL's... _so not_ BOC.NET Addresses are not quite so finicky about such things it depends on the server software usually... I think you'd agree that is much better internationally than ; http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/charlton/www/bristol and it cannot now be legally duplicated either its exclusive as long as the BRISTOL OWNER'S CLUB wants it... The UTAH website I've been told is better suited to those operating on the Pacific side of the globe so that will continue to mirror the ARGONET site without the extra club membersA0sections contained alongside in 'the shadow' so to speak of the website. Sadly its not possible to duplicate that part of the facility at Utah - the site is too exposed. For the newer readers amongst you... you will find an ANNEX on the "Argo site of many items such as Regalia and Prices, Special rate " services of Insurance and RAC membership. As well as the complete guide to the Club's extensive Reprint service now offered in A4 or A5 in monochrome or colour as applicable to very high standard. Now set your browser to address ; http://www.boc.net/bristol/service.html Remember there is no physical link to this annex from the main web site pages though there is from the annex to the open website. once you've made the changes to your Hotlist or Browser Address Book that should be it for a while now... The most recent addition I'd like to bring to your attention is the "inclusion of the ""Chassis Lists Guide"" and the latest available " printouts - as separate sections - ready punched to fit your copy of 400 to Blenheim. Note the date of revision column. I asked Arnold Bettess for his comments and he expressed the desire to replicate the site displays as a coloured brochure so that may also be made available to those without WWW access. Strange how these things can work in tandem... Expect to be able to send Arnold the latest 402 and 403 Chassis Lists updates very soon now. Probably after the latest batch of Membership renewals are delivered in January. I'll let you know. So something else to look forward to in the New Year along with your Membership Renewals. >;_< As usual John Skelton over in Dalgetty Bay has run the PC tests to see the new pages and links display on his PC machine so you find it all works from the Service Page Gateway. Thanks again John. ;-) Unsung hero you see ;)) If you want copies of chassis lists please quote your Membership Number with your order. That way we can ensure that those paying the "fees get the benefits and not just any 'Tom, Dick, or Harry' who " breaks in uninvited from outwith the club. With instant apologies to "the valid Tom, Dick and Harry in the Club ;)) " PROVIDING MORE DIRECT CONTACT There will be a possibility of creating specific relay addresses for all club officers from the new domain so that if you use this routing the messages will travel direct or be bounced to the persons concerned. I have asked for some further instruction on this matter. NEWSGROUP ACCESS Will involve questions being mailed to the group via the domain and then rebroadcast into the group mailing list. A trial will be run first to iron out any unforeseen snags. ------- It will probably involve you mailing to the group name address with the wording something like SIGNON maillist NAME-L in the subject space and signing your preferred destination address. To Leave -------- SIGNOFF would be in a similar fashion. I'll advise as and when. CHANGES OF YOUR OWN ADDRESSES Whilst on this subject a number of subscribers have not remembered to notify changes of their email addresses when moving to a new service provider. 'resolution for 1999' ? Please try to remember to advise me of your newer [preferred email address] otherwise you and the club web side will lose contact. If I broadcast a message and it is returned unopened twice - now - I remove that address from the mailing list. Nine at the last summation. Wasted traffic - is wasted money. ....and have a 'guid New Year' too. Bob Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club website : http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ From: Postmaster "Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:49:19 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Re: BOC NetNews #11 addendum "In article <48ca992c96Postmaster@argonet.co.uk>, " Postmaster wrote: > BocNetNews #11 [... a minor correction] > a BMW 327 for restoration Andrew has advised the BMW 327 will not feature in the sale items. [... greater amplification given] > Some of you may have been at the Press and Public Launch of the new > Bristol Book it was I am told well attended and our Hon.Secy. was > presented with his copy of the book/books. Geoff. points out that his book was in fact pre-paid and he felt the impression might have been given that it was free. _Not the case._ It was requested of him - would he allow Simon to have it presented at the book launch. He readily acceded to that request. In fact Leonard Setright was asked to present Geoff's volumes to him "and was also pleased to also append his signature to the ""The WORD"". " [... a minor correction?:-] > Tony Crook who was clearly surprized at the generosity of the gift. Tony Crook was presented with a _FREE_ copy of the Special Edition again... "> cheers, Bob " > Postmaster at B O C Net still... Postmaster@boc.net From: Postmaster "Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:13:33 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: BOC NetNews #11 BocNetNews #11 -------------- This item was first brought to my attention by Andrew Blow Thus... Please be aware of a special event that David Jones and I are organizing as a result of the wishes of his family... a 'Bring and Buy Car Boot type sale' or 'Bristol Bits 'n' Pieces Day' arranged to be held ; "Saturday 17th April at Meales Farm, Sulhamstead, Nr.Reading, England " "There are many parts - and these include a number of ""barn fresh"" " "cars for restoration, a large quantity of spares and _even_ a " "stripped 400 chassis, all from the David Jones ""hoard"", plus, we " "hope, lots of spares and cars from everyone else. " These are to be sold through Andrew Blow Brokerage and all enquiries about same and or pitches for the day should be directed to Andrew at his email address: Puffer@cix.com "Small charge for a car pitch (30 UK Pounds), or a spares table. Lots " of space and maybe even some refreshments. More details to come "later, but book your diary NOW and tell all your friends. " This is a most unusual event in BOC circles and an opportunity to source the odd part perhaps something you have been seeking for a while. The last such occasion I can recall was when Tony Mitchell was reducing his large and varied stock of spares and secondhand but usable rare components. I had doubts about including this originally but since enquiries can be directed at Andrew not me (for _I must emphasise_ that I know no detail of the extent of contents of this particular collection) why not? Stefan Cembrowicz has taken some pictures and I will be happy to place them on view in a page on the Club Only area of the boc.net website. I'll let you know when and if. He states and I quote : """There is one 400, ripe for restoration, most mech parts for another " including a restored chassis (I've never ever even seen a Bristol "chassis before!) and a useful looking, running 408. Plus a shedful of " "sundry bits and pieces, a BMW 327 for restoration, a small Alvis, as " well as various more modern cars. David may produce a catalogue with "more details, and wishes to encourage other would be sellers of " Bristol bits to come and sell their own stuff. Could be a new sort of Bristol event... as we're usually not able to flog old bits off at the Concours! Andrew Blow is brokering some of the other vehicles for sale and will be involved.. Thought I'd let "you know ASAP so that you can mention it on the website or whatever."" " Thanks for that Stefan. I hope this suits... So there you have it? If any of you have similar items you would wish "so broadcast please let me, Adrian Berry - Newsletter Editor or " Graeme Browne - Bulletin Editor as appropriate know. Some of you may have been at the Press and Public Launch of the new Bristol Book it was I am told well attended and our Hon.Secy. was presented with his copy of the book/books. So too was Tony Crook who was clearly surprized at the generosity of the gift. I expect the book will be reviewed by the magazines of which there were a few key representatives in attendance. It is also my understanding that the Daily Telegraph motoring edition on Saturdays normally will also cover the event with illustrations provided by Geoff. Hawkins. On the WWW a number of changed links to various locations have now established and in addition meaningfull discussion has developed to remove in its entirety the Utah Univeristy located website substituting but a few key links to our now permanent home http://www.boc.net/bristol/ The Sol Links likewise on the Euro Sol website I hope will also be altered to point to our domain. Argonet who host our Domain have since we registered the address doubled our webspace to 20 megabytes a nice Christmas present. "This opens the door to a more direct interchange of views and ideas, " questions and advice between all Bristol owners and / or enthusiasts from our afilliates singly or via their clubs across the world. I still have to finalise the method by which this will be operated so it will be a little while yet. Once the other moves and building blocks are in place it will take top prority. At the moment I'm trying to finalise the updated 402 and 403 Chassis "lists, and of course it being the middle of Membership renewals " there are always alterations appearing during January/February. Now something a little further afield and yet still on some of our doorsteps...It arrived 'out of the net' and was quite a pleasant surprise. "Congratulations on a fantastic Web Site, it was only by chance that I " "came across it, but it really is superb, congratulations on whoever " put it together and updates it. "We can now update you on some things ""Bristolwise"" happening over " this side of the pond. "Bristol Heritage Collection was started last year here in Nashville, " "Tennessee, to preserve as many aircraft, engines and cars that were " made by the Bristol Aeroplane Company. It is a Tax Exempt-Non Profit "organisation with three Trustees, myself, together with Robert C. " "Mikesh, former head of The National Air and Space Museum, Washington, " "and John Gaertner, Curator of the EAA Museum at Oshkosh. " A strange place to put such a collection one might say. [Too right! "Wonder if Sir George has heard of them? ] Well not really, my home is " "Bristol, England, my late Father W.K.Kilsby had one of the largest " "collections of aircraft photographs in Britain, that upon his death " were willed to historian A.J.Jacksons Collection where they remain the most complete photographic history/record of British Civil Aviation in Europe. I started The Bristol Aero Collection in England some twelve years "ago, sadly, [this bit snipped to avoid legal repercussions....] " nothing to what it should have been. We have a number of Bristol aircraft on rebuild to airworthy status at our 5000sq ft restoration workshop here in Nashville. Three "Bristol Blenheims/Bolingbrokes, one being restored to a Mk1V status, " and another being restored as a Mk1 We also have the only Bristol Beaufort in North America under "restoration to airworthy, it was dragged in from the Philipines some " "twenty years ago, remained in California until recently where I got " it from the David Tallichet Collection. We also have a number of aircraft coming in for restoration that had "Bristol engines, those being a Westland Lysander, a Fairey Swordfish, " and two Folland Gnats. We also have a number of aircraf that are not "Bristol related, those being a Mk1 Avro Anson, and an Airspeed " "Oxford, also a Percival Pembroke that is airworthy that we use as " "'The Hack', we also have a resident Chief Engineer on staff that we " stole from Duxford. Together with about a dozen Bristol engines from the Hercules XV to the Mercury XV. So that's us guys. We are very educational in as much that we open the restoration facilty up to schools etc for students to see just how aircraft and engines are restored Our quest for Bristols have been mainly to do with aircraft and "engines, however, as I said, we are looking very seriously for " "Bristol Cars to include ( and restore) in The Collection, so any help " with Bristol Cars in North America would be very much appreciated. "Thanks again for a great WEB Site, and I look forward to hearing from " yourself and other members of what seems to be a great Bristol Car Club. "Sincerely, " "Graham Kilsby, Bristol Heritage Collection, P.O.Box 2108676 " "Nashville, Tennessee 37221. U.S.A. " Ph: (615) 646-2473 I have replied and advised that we will be delighted to welcome any of their company into our club. Who knows perhaps our American members might even arrage to pay a visit. We applaud the aim to preserve some cars but it will be even better if they are made to run regularly up and down the runways hopefully not emulating Tony Crook with his explosive tyre test...?;-) So if any of you are passing Nashville Tenn. USA.. Perhaps you might like to make yourselves known and be treated to a friendly welcome and a private tour...? Perhaps too there might here be a full time home for that remaining Bristol freighter currently up there in the Klondyke? Who knows! Finally for those of you who have not yet received it 'Bulletin 115' is on its way to you now as you read. Details of the 'AGM venue' and 'terms' will be on the Events page in a final state hopefully later tonight. If the page is not dated as at least the 27th it is not the final draft... Thanks to Geoff.Hawkins again. "Happy New Year to you all, " "cheers, Bob " Postmaster at B O C Net Postmaster@boc.net "Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:50:09 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: NetNews #12 and Rogue transmission explanation Oops!!!! Some of you may have received a strange email earlier today from my Postmaster@boc.net mailbox address. ">%-@ Profuse grovel, grovel, mutter, mutter, '#!!%$ computers! " It appears that during construction of a Club or inter club communications area - the program output used the NetNews Mailing List instead of a test address loop which should have been localised. It is in fact the first stage of setting up what is initially called Bristol Owners Club Forum which is addressed as BOCForum-L. This is the promised talkback area where anyone can raise anything at "all to do with Bristol Cars, Bristol Engines or substitutes, any " "matters technical or aesthetical. If you get stuck during a recon., " or rebuild it will allow you to tap into the vast pool of expertise available from any Bristol Club or Owner or member of an affiliate "club, be it Aviation minded or based on terra firma.. It is not an " open group so it cannot be invaded by miscreants except me >:-< getting it all 'a for e' The intention is that this discussion group is not moderated subject to self imposed rules of decency and manner. Any traffic which is directly abusive or ill mannered is liable not to reach the forum and the sender may well be excised. Once the group is operating it will be up to those in the group to determine what they want to discuss. Postmaster@boc.net will simply relay traffic to and from the mailing list using in the latter case those whose addresses are current. If you reply with the word SIGNON in the Subject Field your mailbox ie. the one you respond from will automatically be logged and entered into the Forum Mailing list. If you wish such mail to be directed at another mailbox then send a SIGNON message from that address instead. Thus - BOCForum-L@boc.net with the Subject field containing """SIGNON BOCForum-L"" without the parenthesis from your preferred " address. On receipt at boc.net Your given name and email address will be added automatically. "field set to ""SIGNOFF BOCForum-L"" without the parenthesis from that " same address. On receipt your name and email address will be removed automatically. You do not have to put anything in the message window signing on or signing off since the operation is semi automatic content is irrelevant and will not be transmitted further... unless you wish to say something pertinent to set the ball rolling... It might help if you identify your contributions to the Forum by your name that way people know who they are talking to. All mail traffic is sent using the signed on mailing list and copied Bcc: so it cannot be used to trawl a list of communicants. "The rest is up to you. Spread it around your sections, area, county, " country. As more people join the internet we at least have reached "another goal, and if you have any other useful ideas then by all " means throw them in. Hope this helps. "Fingers crossed this will now work properly. Mutter, mutter, mutter. " "cheers, and further grovelling from the Postmaster@.( " Bob Postmaster@boc.net la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA03292 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:15:58 -0800 (PST) " From: Postmaster "Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:12:55 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Re: SIGNON BOCForum-L "In article , " Andrew Blow wrote: "> Hi, " > This is Andrew Blow here. "> Not quite sure how a Forum works, but it sound fun, so I'll join up. " > Andrew Blow > Winterbourne Monkton > SN4 9NW UK > 01672 539689 > Fax: 0171 919 4479 Sort of like this I guess Postmaster@boc.net "L@boc.net>; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:17:56 -0800 (PST) " "Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:19:00 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Forum Acknowledgement References: <48cbb1447cBOCForum-L@argonet.co.uk> Postmaster & Andrew - Just sending a note that I seem to have received one message from the forum - sort of like clearing my throat so my presence is noted! "The forum sounds like it will be entertaining and useful, especially " because my restoration has resumed! "I'm on a similar ""mailing list"" service for Imperials (the cars, of " course) - interesting that both makes shared an engine at one time. "Bob Schmitt (Burbank, CA) " "> In article , " > Andrew Blow wrote: "> > Hi, " > > This is Andrew Blow here. "> > Not quite sure how a Forum works, but it sound fun, so I'll join up. " > > Andrew Blow > > Winterbourne Monkton > > SN4 9NW UK > > 01672 539689 > > Fax: 0171 919 4479 > Sort of like this I guess > Postmaster@boc.net la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA15983 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:37:13 -0800 (PST) " From: Postmaster "Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:29:19 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Re: mailing list "In article <199901281750_MC2-685D-9379@compuserve.com>, " Ivor Goodliffe <100666.1250@compuserve.com> wrote: > SIGNON BOCForum-L OK Ivor your in. Glad to see you with us on this 'voyage'. Bob From: Postmaster "Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:36:46 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Over 10K today "Hi folks, " Just to let you know - as if you didn't? - We just broke the TEN THOUSAND hit barrier sometime in the last twenty four hours. I'm dead chuffed!:-)) "That's even more folks than live in my town Lanark, Scotland. ;)) " Nice that we achieved this as we consolidate our permanent home which I hope will provide at least the answer to Stephen's problem... Sorry Stephen I cannot help with Overdrives my 400 isn't quite that modern. On another tack I note some Mailers also send an HTML copy of the text. If it is possible (and I have no idea if it is) can you please switch that part off when mailing - because if I just bounce the messages on I might miss that and waste your bandwidth by duplicating the message. It also saves time censoring it out. Or do some of you you need them left in? We haven't established our protocols its really up to the participants. eg. should we allow attachments to the list mail? I don't think it is a good idea because it will take longer to load your messages at both ends. Any thoughts? "Thanks, " Bob Charlton la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id EAA27768 for " (envelope-from swall@bollingtoninsurance.co.uk) " "From: ""Stephen Wall"" " Subject: First tentative message and a question "Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:44:39 -0000 " Hello to all. To set the ball rolling has anybody got any idea why the overdrive on my 1956 405 works great when then engine is cold and warm but is very reluctant to engage when the engine is hot. For example It always "engages when I join the M6 30 mins from home, but when I get to " Birmingham and get stuck in traffic it won't re-engage when it clears. Any ideas? "regards, " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Over 10K today CC: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com "Definitely no attachments and no html. Keep it simple text, please. " "No idea on the hot overdrive problem, will ask various gurus. " Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA13883 for ; "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:15:42 -0800 (PST) " "Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:19 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Bristol cars and parts sale CC: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com Bristol Bring & Buy Sale. "This new event is happening on Saturday April 17th nr Reading, England. " Details in due course will be published on my Web site www.racecar.co.uk/andrewblow and in the BOC Newsletter. "The emphasis will be on cars for restoration and on parts, mainly 6 " "cylinder cars I expect, but including at least one 408 and possibly a 409 " "at ""sensible"" prices. " End of sales pitch. "Just saw a pair of very historic and interesting 2 litres today, namely a " "401 with all sorts of mods by the factory to 403 spec, plus overdrive and " "100 D2 engine, as owned by the late, great, Dudley Rylett, and a 405 with " """hot"" engine as currently owned by Bob Austin, Dudley's son in law. Both " "were actively campaigned in sprints and hill climbs back in the 70s, and " haven't been seen since. Both need some sympathetic restoration (the 401 "has had paint stripped off), but neither should be stripped for parts. " Anyone who can convince me of their good intentions should get in touch. I hope to get both to the above event. bye for now Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA01188 for ; "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:45:25 -0800 (PST) " "L@boc.net>; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:37:28 -0800 (PST) " "Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:38:41 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Over 10K today References: <48cc005ae9Postmaster@argonet.co.uk> Bob - "Congraulations on the 10K mark! My Frazer Nash site just went over 2K, " but took 16 months to get there. The other mailing list I belong to (Imperial cars) does not allow "For forum members with large(r) attachments, I have some web space to " donate and would be pleased to post any such attachments. Bob Schmitt "iprolink.co.nz (2.54.1/2.54.1) with ESMTP id VAA203982 for ; Sat, 30 " Jan 1999 21:47:36 +1300 "Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:50:42 +1300 " From: Chris Browne Subject: List protocols Bob wrote: >On another tack I note some Mailers also send an HTML copy of the >text. If it is possible (and I have no idea if it is) can you please >switch that part off when mailing - because if I just bounce the >messages on I might miss that and waste your bandwidth by duplicating >the message. It also saves time censoring it out. Or do some of you >you need them left in? Leave them out. It is a waste of tiem and bandwith. It can be turned off (as I recall from frustrated messages on other mailing lists giving directions on how to do it). >We haven't established our protocols its really up to the >participants. eg. should we allow attachments to the list mail? No attachments. I agree with Andrew. Simple text is desirable. Attachments are generally bad news on a mailing list. No one attaching a document can possible know whether everyone will have an application to open it. If it "is text, there is no need for attachments. If it is a graphic file, " downloading should be optional (ie put it on a website or mail to those who want it and who can open it). Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@iprolink.co.nz From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:13:15 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Re: BOC NetNews #11 "In article <36B0ABC6.6DCF@pacbell.net>, " Bob Schmitt wrote: > Bob - "> Thanks, as always, for the nice addition to the printed Bristol " > news. Some interesting Frazer Nash developments: Too kind... "> 1. Work has resumed on my car in Arizona, as of last Friday! " Good you'll be pleased to see more progress. "> 2. I got the following from Jim Trigwell: " > Subject: Re: Ned Curtis' Mille Miglia "> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:03:20 -0000 " > From: James Trigwell > To: Bob Schmitt "> Bob, " > What a coincidence! I have just seen Ned's Mille Miglia (# 124) "> in a garage not half a mile from my office, where it has been " > completely stripped and is now being carefully rebuilt. It has been "> bought by John Coombes, who was a famous entrant in the early 60's " > - mainly Jaguars raced in England by various people including "> Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart, so it will be rebuilt properly. " White with a Blue Tartan Ribbon one wonders? > I also popped in to Bill Roberts' place to have my Nash prepared > for some light competition next month and there was another Mille > Miglia (# 161) which has come back from New Zealand and is being > prepared for the new owner to use at the same race that I am hoping > to enter. It is a beautiful car. Interesting that there should be such interest after all these years. > And last July at the big Silverstone historic event I saw MM # 115 "> fresh from a rebuild, so that is 3 Mille Miglias in 6 months! If " > you want any details/photos for your rebuild please let me know. "> : Jim"" " My correspondent Michael Parr who has the Black car I sent you a jpg copy. Has now acquired a Cooper Bristol and a Race engine purported to be one the FN Registrar was long looking for(thought lost). "His car is being fettled up for campaigning, albeit from the rear " (he has no qualifying points to get him further up the grid) I hope he does well and doesn't bend himself. "> 3. Finally, per your message following this one, I sent an email to " > join the Bristol Forum. What/when can I expect anything? I hope that by the time you read this you'll have received a number of bounced messages. I think I've got the gears sorted now after a hazardous start... and now all I need to learn is how hard to ply the brakes or not. Where the vehicle goes I do not know...?:-O I'm not strictly in the driving seat... %-) "Its there for those who want to use it to further contact, knowledge, " "get help, give help, learn, diseminate knowledge, and if there's a " subject in mind kick it about a bit. Great stuff learning of the Bristol Heritage outfit in Tenn.USA.. Flad to have their contact. We were at the launch of the BAe collection a couple of years or so back. Sir George White ( the present incumbent of title ) is on the Board of Trustees for that so common ground there. I wonder if the USA owners would be interested in making contact with a view to meeting there and in turn perhaps forging some more local links than I or Peter can manage from our respective domiciles? > Bob Schmitt "> (Burbank, where it's crystal clear with snow on the nearby hills!) " Bob ( Lanark where we are in low lying cloud 750 feet above the Clyde Valley ) Its wet damp and raining but no Snow. "In fact yesterday was just like Spring, Blue Sky no clouds and Bright " Sunshine. Quite Unbelievable!;)) "cheers, " Bob Charlton la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA12149 for ; "Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:14:44 -0800 (PST) " "Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:07:33 +0000 " From: Sue & Richard Peacock Subject: SIGON BOCForum-L Hope this gets to you as I had a funny error message the last time I tried. Sue & Richard Peacock "Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:21:47 +0000 " From: Sue & Richard Peacock Subject: Late news I don't know if its too late but I was talking to Enrie Cooper yesterday "and he and his beautiful 400 are to be featured in March, Classic & " Sport due out Thursday 4th. Wondered if you had space as members might like to see it. Sue & Richard Peacock Forum operates via the Club group address Forum@boc.net la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id HAA25979 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 07:39:48 -0800 (PST) " From: Bob Charlton "Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:08:19 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Facilities available to all In case some of you have not heard though I have asked that it be "distributed in all clubs members of BOCA., BRONZ., ARNOLT Registry, " are all entitled if they wish to use the BOC Service area and to order applicable items or services via the listed addressees. eg. If someone in BOCA wants a print of a particular (listed)article "or a manual etc., " All they have to do is quote their Club and Club Membership Number. You'll have to check with Arnold Bettess for costs and arnold usually waits until he has received payment prior to dispatch. If you have not been advised by your own club yet the address of the Club annex area to the boc.net domain is ; http://www.boc.net/bristol/service.html Apart from postage you will all be charged the same rate as BOC members. The club sees this as an important development which improves contact and will further the preservation of older Bristol "cars, one of all our clubs primary aims. " You may also contact Arnold Bettess by Email although it is not yet listed in the pages at address ; abettess@ac.accross.uk Hope this is of interest. Please pass it on to those members not on the net if they get stuck for some data they too can write or come to an arrangement to view the data and enquire of cost by email with your assistance. This includes REGALIA though it will probably be impractical to accept returns of Clothing... it rather depends how well the parcels are treated in the post... Check this with the Regalia Secretary Debbie Leonard c/o. lisa@biebuyck.kemc.co.uk "Hope this helps, " Bob Charlton Postmaster@boc.net Forum operates via the address Forum@boc.net From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 16:26:07 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Minor additions(#603) Can I commend you to reading some new notes on the 'Media' and 'News' pages as well as the new 'Forum' page in the 'Club area' of http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Newest are in Red and older in faded Red - you'll see what I mean if images 'are on'. Apology for not spotting link problem from http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/charlton/www/bristol/ for those who have not yet switched addresses to the club Domain. It was wrong missing a couple of links. >:-< Now its been fixed. :-) I'd have fixed it sooner but no-one had mentioned the fault./:-\ Articles reported in past Week-end Telegraph Motoring Section with illustration by Geoff.Hawkins and News of the long awaited AC Ace book - which I'm sure will be of great interest to at least three persons who I know peruse these notes closely. ;)) and Yes alas more money reqd.. ):-( I said this was minor and so I've not qualified this notelet as dreaded issue #13 so in true Bristolian fashion I'll call it #603 ;)) The next will be #14 and hopefully clear of any broken link reports. "cheers, " Bob Charlton Postmaster@boc.net la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id CAA16341 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 1999 02:42:27 -0800 (PST) " "oznet14.ozemail.com.au (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA10646 for ; Sat, " 6 Feb 1999 16:59:34 +1100 (EST) "Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 17:03:35 " From: Hugh & Maur Knox Subject: Bristols at Oran Park Just back from a glorious sunny summer day at the track just west of Sydney for the Historic Sports and race cars meeting I for once did not campaign the 403 as I am getting closer to finishing the 404 and will want to sell the 403 in Good condition! "We had a 403 running on 15"" rims ex Mercedes C Class plus a newly restored " "Arnolt Bristol on racing dunlops and, to add spice to the collection, an AC " Ace Bristol. They all ran in regularity the 403 putting up some excellent times but all looking and running well. Cheers Hugh HUGH KNOX. 230 Hudson Parade Clareville NSW 2107 Fax 99731002 To JOIN send mail and in Subject place SIGNON BOCForum-L From: Bob Charlton "Date: Sat, 06 Feb 1999 14:09:53 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: resent contribution 1st post may have failed Just back from a glorious sunny summer day at the track just west of Sydney for the Historic Sports and race cars meeting I for once did not campaign the 403 as I am getting closer to finishing the 404 and will want to sell the 403 in Good condition! We had a 403 running on "15"" rims ex Mercedes C Class plus a newly restored Arnolt Bristol on " "racing dunlops and, to add spice to the collection, an AC Ace " Bristol. They all ran in regularity the 403 putting up some excellent times but all looking and running well. Cheers Hugh HUGH KNOX. 230 Hudson Parade Clareville NSW 2107 Fax 99731002 Postmaster@boc.net "la1.pacbell.net>; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 03:17:56 -0800 (PST) " fep6.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA25807 for ; "Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:00:03 +1100 (EST) " "Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 17:06:02 " From: Hugh & Maur Knox Subject: my 404 rebuild "Just a shot in the dark, but perhaps someone may be able to help. " The 404 I am now rebuilding is ex UK S Lane Jones and whilst it arrived here fairly complete it was dismantled probably 20 years ago in the UK and is OK apart from one exception. The pair of bright chrome strips above the valance panels on the wings are "missing, I have the door strips but lack these others. " Could it be possible someone has them? If so would be a big help as otherwise it will be necessary to fashion new from virgin brass. HUGH KNOX. 230 Hudson Parade Clareville NSW 2107 Fax 99731002 *NOTE* BOCForum-L now renamed operates via the address Forum@boc.net Your application has been noted and added to the Forum Distribution List Existing addresses have been transferred to the Forum Distribution List la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id MAA00759 for "Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:15 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Sunny days in Sydney CC: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com Very envious of all this. My Ace Bristol MUST see the road this year. regards Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 "Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:15 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: your 404 rebuild CC: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com Hugh "I think these have to be posted as missing, and unlikely to be found. " "This car was dis-mantled a long time ago, I think by Alan Skyrme. Spencer " "then bought it, and it was moved a couple of times. I took photos of all " the bits when we sold it to Geoff Dowdle. We did notice that the two "window trims were missing, but could not find them. " "I suggest you try Brian May, or possibly consider getting some from a 405 " as a pattern. Best of luck. Glad this car will soon be up and running again. "regards, " Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 *NOTE* BOCForum-L now renamed operates via the address Forum@boc.net Your application has been noted and added to the Forum Distribution List Existing addresses have been transferred to the Forum Distribution List "la1.pacbell.net>; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:08:33 -0800 (PST) " From: Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:04:40 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Venting crankcase with Pancakes on SU's Has anyone converted a type 85A engine fitted with original triple SU Carbs. - to separate Panncake Air filters replacing both the existing Balance Chamber and Crankcase Ventilation return into the Drum style Air Filter Chamber. I'd be interested in any practical experiments of the alternatives... eg. To know if it is deemed more worthwhile to re-vent the Crankcase by a balance pipe across the three new separate Carb Filters... or To treat the Crankcase Ventilation as a separate element altogether and use a Venturi Tube style vent after the fashion of the 404?/405. Any info of practical problems discovered apart from the obvious risc of Carb icing in Colder weather taking the latter course. It has been reported that there is an increased risc of fire but that would presume the venting and Air/Fuel vapour mix was markedly less effective than the original system. This must have been a common modification in Hotter Climates? Any data gladly received. "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob Charlton From: Bob Charlton "Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:58:10 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Club Graphics "Can anyone send me the Club Graphics for BOC Australia, Bronz, and " Arnolt Registry? It seems a bit daft having links to the various overseas officials but no equivalent graphic on the index page. I presume you all have at least one? "Thanks in anticipation, " Also can you advise how the experimental new graphic on the Home Page header is appearing. I don't have a PC so a comparison of notes is useful. "Thanks, again " Bob Charlton "Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:30:03 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Club Graphics References: <000701be5ffd$2f6a1ac0$3f5608c3@stephen-wall> "In article <000701be5ffd$2f6a1ac0$3f5608c3@stephen-wall>, " Stephen Wall wrote: "> Bob, " > I have been avoiding work in my office this morning/afternoon and > have checked over the latest additions to the website - the > graphics look fine on a PC with 800 x 600 resolution. "> I remember that you pointed me in the direction of a ""members " "> services"" page (handbook?) but I lost the URL when I bought a new " > notebook. Am I talking jibberish or does this make sense? I need it > to order a copy workshop manual for the 405. "> Regards, sw " "Thanks Stephen, glad something is working OK., I think I have now " "discovered another bug in the maillist software, I'll have to consult " with the author. At least I have direct access. Which helps. It probably hasn't been spotted because there are not too many private subscribers with as large a potential list of contacts using it at the moment. The details you require are to add /service.html to the domain address. Arnold should be on-line Monday-Friday office hours. Let me know if you have any problems. I've added his Email address in the contact details section. Meanwhile I'll keep tracking traffic through the system. The problem seems to lie with the auto bounce broadcast element. There's always something...?:-) "cheers, " From: Bob Charlton "Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:08:47 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Re: BOC Club - Semi-related References: <000701be5ffd$2f6a1ac0$3f5608c3@stephen-wall> Bob et al. - > > I have been avoiding work in my office this morning/afternoon and > > have checked over the latest additions to the website - the > > graphics look fine on a PC with 800 x 600 resolution. I think it's been mentioned before that the March issue of Classic & Sports Car reviews Ernie Cooper's Bristol 400. I don't usually get "this magazine (subscribe to T&CC, though) so it was through a new " Frazer Nash owner in NY that I heard my Frazer Nash web site was mentioned favorably in Mick Walsh's column (p 151) in this issue. http://home.pacbell.net/bsbrbank/Index.html I apologize if this reinforces the stereotype of Yanks (and residents "of ""near LA) tooting their own horns! " The restoration of my car has re-commenced and I'll be looking for "tech advice shortly, esp. to locate a replacement knock-off wheel, " presumably destroyed in the accident that laid this car up more than 30 years ago. Bob (Burbank) [ Congratulations Bob I didn't know that. I thought we were doing rather well - nice to know its even better... BY THE WAY I've added "Frazer Nash to the intro of the Home Page... Glad its reading OK., " I've just spotted the Badge was a bit crooked by over comression so I've reinflated it ;)) rgds. - Bob ] From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:14:01 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Re: More 400 publicity References: <48d98d78f8Postmaster@argonet.co.uk> "In article , " Andrew Blow wrote: "> Classic Cars have just done the photos for a ""back to back"" story " > on the 400 and a 327/80 BMW. "That should be interesting, pity I dont know the address of the " "original owner, I met him briefly at Mellerstain House a couple of " years ago. He came especially to see the 400 saying he has always regretted selling his. "> The 400 was Ed Weinberger's car, and the driver was yours truly. " > Should be out in the April-dated issue I think. Guess that will be out next week then? > Andrew Blow > Winterbourne Monkton > SN4 9NW UK > 01672 539689 > Fax: 0171 919 4479 "Thanks, " Bob Charlton la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA00439 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:03:21 -0800 (PST) " "Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:08:44 -0500 " Sender: S de Burca From: S de Burca Subject: Model Cars Does anyone know whether scale models of any Bristol cars have ever been produced or are available? There seems to be plenty Bristol Omnibuses out there but not many cars. SdeB debushau@operamail.com debushau@earthlink.net "Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 21:48:07 +0000 " From: Sue & Richard Peacock Subject: Re: Model Cars "In message <48dc35f933Postmaster@argonet.co.uk>, Bob Charlton " writes ">In article , " > S de Burca wrote: >> Does anyone know whether scale models of any Bristol cars have ever >> been produced or are available? There seems to be plenty Bristol >> Omnibuses out there but not many cars. >'Spot-On' did a model of the Type 406 several colours reported. >'Dinky' did a model of the Type 450 Green with different numbers >'Dinky' did a model of the 'Cooper Bristol'. ">""Mik an' Sue"" made White Metal kits of 'Type 400' and '404/x' (no " >longer available) ">There was a true to scale model made of the 'Type 401', Maker I " >cannot remember but it is still available circa 30 UK pounds.. check >good Model shops not Chain Stores. >A 'Type 404' model was rumoured but I've never seen one yet. >The Dinky and Spot On models are often to be seen. >I have also found a BMW Drophead by Dinky upon which part of the Type ">400 was based. Have not researched 'Frazer Nash', 'Lister Bristol' " >etc.. Quite possible models were released of these. >Sports and racing car models always had a following. >Any models seen other than these please advise. >Hope this helps >Bob -The 401 model was produced by 'Pathfinder........ A'Cooper Bristol' was produced by 'Copycat' and 'Merlyn Models' produced a 400 .'Sun' produced a white metal kit of the 450 and a French firm produced plastic kits to reproduce the open 450 of 1955 and the Bristol engined A C Richard Peacock . la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA15102 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:07:59 -0800 (PST) " "Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:27:08 +0000 " From: Sue & Richard Peacock Subject: Re: Model Cars "In message , S de Burca " writes >Does anyone know whether scale models of any Bristol cars have ever been >produced or are available? There seems to be plenty Bristol Omnibuses out >there but not many cars. >SdeB >______________________ >debushau@operamail.com >debushau@earthlink.net "There is a comprehensive (at the time)-article in B.O.C. Bulletin-No.79, (Summer " 1988). written by Jon Winding Sorensen and entitled 'Model Mania; which gives lots of information on this subject. There are also several model makers who "will make specific models to order. The B.O.C. Reprint Service will, I am sure, " be able to supply a copy of this article. Richard Peacock "Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:03 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: More 400 publicity "Sorry, got that wrong. " "Will be May dated issue, as journalist was still writing story on " Friday... Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 "Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:01 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Models of Bristol cars Suggest you try Peter Radcliffe at Peter@mmcars.demon.co.uk and Merrymeet Model Cars http://www.mmcars.co.uk "Peter is a Bristol 412 owner and makes Bristol models to commission, and " supplies a wide range of models. "regards, " Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: More 400 publicity CC: puffer@cix.co.uk "Classic Cars have just done the photos for a ""back to back"" story on the " 400 and a 327/80 BMW. They couldn't find a UK 327 coupe (fixed head) so it "was a drophead, which is a bit of a shame. " "The 400 was Ed Weinberger's car, and the driver was yours truly. " Should be out in the April-dated issue I think. "cheers, " Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 From: Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 00:01:40 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Re: Model Cars References: "In article , " S de Burca wrote: > Does anyone know whether scale models of any Bristol cars have ever > been produced or are available? There seems to be plenty Bristol > Omnibuses out there but not many cars. 'Spot-On' did a model of the Type 406 several colours reported. 'Dinky' did a model of the Type 450 Green with different numbers 'Dinky' did a model of the 'Cooper Bristol'. """Mik an' Sue"" made White Metal kits of 'Type 400' and '404/x' (no " longer available) "There was a true to scale model made of the 'Type 401', Maker I " cannot remember but it is still available circa 30 UK pounds.. check good Model shops not Chain Stores. A 'Type 404' model was rumoured but I've never seen one yet. The Dinky and Spot On models are often to be seen. I have also found a BMW Drophead by Dinky upon which part of the Type "400 was based. Have not researched 'Frazer Nash', 'Lister Bristol' " etc.. Quite possible models were released of these. Sports and racing car models always had a following. Any models seen other than these please advise. Hope this helps Bob la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id IAA06308 for ; "Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:38:29 -0800 (PST) " "Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:01 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Models of Bristol cars Suggest you try Peter Radcliffe at Peter@mmcars.demon.co.uk and Merrymeet Model Cars http://www.mmcars.co.uk "Peter is a Bristol 412 owner and makes Bristol models to commission, and " supplies a wide range of models. "regards, " Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 "Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:38:26 -0800 (PST) " From: Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 16:36:24 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Re: Models of Bristol cars References: <48dc35f933Postmaster@argonet.co.uk> "In article , " Andrew Blow wrote: > Suggest you try Peter Radcliffe at Peter@mmcars.demon.co.uk and > Merrymeet Model Cars http://www.mmcars.co.uk Peter is a Bristol "> 412 owner and makes Bristol models to commission, and supplies a " > wide range of models. Thanks Andrew there goes more money. /:-\ FYI Shane 'et al' a little extra investigation provides the following interesting data. Bristol Models currently Stocked are 'Resin' kits of Type 450 as run "at Le Mans 24 Hr. races in years 1953, '54 and '55. " They are all priced at 24 UK Pounds + Post and Packing which naturally varies according to final destination. There are many other kits and completed car kits are available to order. In the case of the Type 450 the cost is an additional 45 UK pounds. The only other model I noticed listed also and Bristol powered was that of an AC ACE Bristol... Now who do I know has an AC ACE Bristol?;-) "Hope this helps, cheers, " To Contribute to Forum subscribers use the address Forum@boc.net "Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:55 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Venting crankcase with Pancakes on SUs CC: puffer@cix.co.uk "Bob, I assume Alexa's car has been modified in the way you suggest, though " maybe she has had to keep the standard air cleaner for originality? "All my 400s have had Solexes, which of course don't use a balance chamber. " "Curiously enough, one of the 400s I have in for sale (KSK 417, 400/111) " "which has an ""85AC"" engine, does have the three Solexes connected via " "their base plates, a modification which Spencer had not seen before, and " about which much discussion ensued. I am a firm believer in leaving things "alone, so no tests have been performed with these tubes connected compared " with blanking them off. "With regard to the crankcase breather via the rocker cover, I have always " just fitted an external tube down to sump level as per 405 and 406s without any obvious problems. "Hope this helps, " Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 "Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 13:46:11 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: My Ace Bristol References: <48d970b609Postmaster@argonet.co.uk> "On 26 Feb, Andrew Blow wrote: " "> Bob, in the latest copy of ACtion, there is reference to ACOC's new " > web site at www.racecar.co.uk\acoc (described as temporary) and > www.acoc.co.uk "> (""will be""). Haven't had a look myself yet. " Thanks I'll pass this on I'm sure Bob Scmitt will be interested. "cheers, " Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:26:53 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: ERA Bristol I recently came across a reference to ERA (English Racing Automobiles)? having constructed a team of 4 cars circa 1952 to camnpaign in the 2 litres series of track races. Plus that there is a connection with Stirling Moss who was driving for ERA as well as other sponsors through his varied and continuing career. This was all astonishing news to me and I immediately contacted someone I know who has paid a certain amount of interest to Bristol Engined Cars on the track. He had never heard of this... and yet I have secured a very poor picture of what I take to be one of the cars in question. Has anyone else here picked up on this connection before? or any other Racing teams or Marques using Bristol Engines - not already commented upon in the miscellaneous page of the website? "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob Charlton "Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:12:27 +0000 " From: roger pugh Subject: Practical classics April 1999 page 62 Whilst browsing the car magazines in the supermarket today i saw in the index of "practical classics a referance to Bristol 406's, so i bought the magazine. When i got home " i was VERY supprised to find out that MY 406 had just undergone a restoration. The article "printed concerned the work that was done in 1993 on behalf of Joe Peirce, a previous " "owner of 23 years. I know that magazines are compiled a little in advance, but 6 YEARS! " Does anyone have any clues on this? Sig Roger Pugh la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id DAA29436 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 03:43:23 -0800 (PST) " "oznet11.ozemail.com.au (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA12822 for ; Sat, " 13 Mar 1999 10:18:32 +1100 (EST) "Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:24:44 " From: Hugh & Maur Knox Subject: Re: Restoration Surprises Having reached the later stages of restoring 404 s/no 2015 ex UK in pieces some 6 years ago and probably taken apart some 20 years earlier I decided to take measurements for the addition of seat belts. So took drivers seat off shelf and placed into body for the vital statistics re length of the various straps--- all OK However when removing seat after the measuring effort noticed small scraps of newspaper on the floor pan. Turned seat over and on close examination found a mouse nest inside the dunlopillo cushion... bloody hell I thought the mice had got in during the time these parts were stored in the hangar where the work is being done! "Not so, on close examination of the scraps turns out to be a Welsh " newsapaper that unfortunately did not have a date legible but had been there a long time? HUGH KNOX. 230 Hudson Parade Clareville NSW 2107 Fax 99731002 "Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:13 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: ERA Bristol Cc: puffer@cix.co.uk "G-type ERA , developed as a Formula 2 car with Bristol engine, turned into " the Bristol 450 didn't it? Not sure about a team of four ERA cars however. Postwar ERAs were not at all successful. Stirling Moss drove this G type "ERA in the 1952 European GP at Spa where it retired, and also at " Silverstone in the British GP that year; it also retired here and at a couple of other circuits. At the end of 1952 ERA threw in the towel and sold the lot to Bristols. "See ""British Racing Green"" by Anthony Pritchard, Allen & Unwin, 1969. " "regards, " Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 "Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:16:08 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: ERA Bristol References: <48e00f8ed1charlton@argonet.co.uk> "In article , " Andrew Blow wrote: "> G-type ERA , developed as a Formula 2 car with Bristol engine, " > turned into the Bristol 450 didn't it? I believe the ERA Chassis was studied I've seen a picture of it with a Bristol engine fitted but it had no bodywork at the time. There is a picture of the ERA with bodywork (it could be Formula 2) not up on the niceties of such things ca.52 myself ...but I know a man who is :-) and I've asked him to dig out his attic!:-) > Not sure about a team of four ERA cars however. That is as was reported in the Bristol Company Newspaper prior 1952. > Postwar ERAs were not at all successful. Stirling Moss drove this G "> type ERA in the 1952 European GP at Spa where it retired, and also " > at Silverstone in the British GP that year; it also retired here > and at a couple of other circuits. Not exactly a great package then! > At the end of 1952 ERA threw in the towel and sold the lot to > Bristols. But did they then have Bristol engines or someone elses? Surely virtually everyone else was using them with some success. "> See ""British Racing Green"" by Anthony Pritchard, Allen & Unwin, " > 1969. I suppose it might be obtainable fronm the local library but I won't hold my breath. /:-\ "Thanks, I'll have to see if I can extract the data concerned for the " bibliography. > Andrew Blow > Winterbourne Monkton > SN4 9NW UK > 01672 539689 > Fax: 0171 919 4479 Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:38:35 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Godfrey It is with great regret I have to inform you that Godfrey Charles "Oxley-Sidey, passed away peacefully at home on Sunday Morning " 14th.March at the age of 88. Godfrey was BOC President and a Founder member of the UK BMW/Bristol Club subsequently later to form the Bristol Owners Club. "A Widower, his wife Lorraine having died some years ago, he is " "survived by his Daughter Frances, and Son Michael to whom we express " our deepest sympathy. A Service will be held at 10.00am on Friday Morning 19th March at "St.Olafs Church in Ramsey, Isle of Man. " "Therefrom (Family Only), will depart to attend a private cremation. " Godfrey had expressed the wish that there be 'no flowers' and that any donations 'in lieu' should be sent to the 'Help the Aged' Charity. Frances has indicated the intention to have a Memorial Service later this year in London. Details will be presented to the club in the usual manner. The club is arranging for an attendance of the Marque at the Church. I have asked the owner of the 404 prototype if he can manage to take the car along. Other owners have likewise been contacted. "Alas there is no 405 D on the island. Godfrey's favourite Bristol, " if you had not already guessed from his own books of the marque. Bob Charlton From: Bob Charlton postmaster@argonet.co.uk "Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:38:35 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: Godfrey ReSent-From: Bob Charlton It is with great regret I have to inform you that Godfrey Charles "Oxley-Sidey, passed away peacefully at home on Sunday Morning " 14th.March at the age of 88. Godfrey was BOC President and a Founder member of the UK BMW/Bristol Club subsequently later to form the Bristol Owners Club. "A Widower, his wife Lorraine having died some years ago, he is " "survived by his Daughter Frances, and Son Michael to whom we express " our deepest sympathy. A Service will be held at 10.00am on Friday Morning 19th March at "St.Olafs Church in Ramsey, Isle of Man. " "Therefrom (Family Only), will depart to attend a private cremation. " Godfrey had expressed the wish that there be 'no flowers' and that any donations 'in lieu' should be sent to the 'Help the Aged' Charity. Frances has indicated the intention to have a Memorial Service later this year in London. Details will be presented to the club in the usual manner. The club is arranging for an attendance of the Marque at the Church. I have asked the owner of the 404 prototype if he can manage to take the car along. Other owners have likewise been contacted. "Alas there is no 405 D on the island. Godfrey's favourite Bristol, " if you had not already guessed from his own books of the marque. Bob Charlton From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:26:12 +0000 (GMT) " Subject: #NetNews 603 or I'm ducking 13 As is usual in Bristol circles the issue after 12 and before 14 has adopted the code 603. Cries of Chicken I suspect... but why tempt providence? This time of month sees a glut of magazines on the rack and hopefully more of Bristolian Matter. "Some new items are thus illustrated on the website ""Media"" page and " quite the find almost slipped through the Net. A potted history of the life and times of Richard II... erm Mead that is. No wonder I couldn't trace him post 1960 for by the account he never traded in the UK beyond that date. "So references abound in the usual sources, CC C&S and Practical " "Classics for those who are interested, suitable references abound. " During the course of the month more membership renewals have slowed the progress of the release of chassis lists but they are coming along nicely and will be sooner rather than later. In an old Bristol review I came across a reference to ERA adopting the Bristol power plant for their 2 litre team cars and this led to none other than Stirling Moss. Did he ever race a Bristol engined ERA I "wondered. Attempting to find out. In the meantime the ""Misc"" page has " "been updated as has the ""Home"" page to reflect more accurate coverage " of other marques using the Bristol engine. (see Joe Kelly) Once again there are a number of cosmetic changes to the Website with the emphasis on _THE_ for I have sent links to America to be inserted in place of the Utah website www.team.net/www/bristol/ and likewise to www.team.net.sol/ or Sol/euroclubs. But have yet to see any action. Nevertheless if anyone asks for the address please do tender the URL: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ This is the Bristol Club website. "A couple of tidy cars were sold at auction, these being a 400 and a " 406 were reported sold at highest bids of 14K UKP and 7.5K UKP respectively. Both excellent condition and the 400 described as excellent/fully restored. Depressing results for both owners and a lesson not to place faith but to place a decent but viable reserve... 'Forum' is working by all accounts after some hiccups. I think the distribution is working OK but any of you are getting this mail but not joining in on Forum why not? Certainly traffic is light as might have been expected in the early stages. It's noticeable that a lot more members have added Email addresses so the only problem appears "to be bridging the gap between the Newsletter, the Bulletin and " NetNews. To my surprise the Editor of the Newsletter was not included and at his request that omission has now been corrected. Recent discussions turned to model cars of the Marque and resulted in me investing in a string of Le Mans Type 450's from MerryMeet Model Cars run by members Peter and Jackie Radcliffe. They have a comprehensive website of racing Cars assembled or in kit form. So if you are interested the URL: at which to point your browser is http://www.mmcars.co.uk/ Australian visitors to the UK this year will include Rob and Philippa Spielman during September and October. So I'm sure we can arrange a few meetings and extend the hand of friendship. Rob says its their first trip over for twenty five years and they are looking forward to renewing acquaintances made on the last trip. How they will notice the change in the traffic. UK culture shock! We do not have a date or venue for the Concours yet but I'll pass it on as soon as something is fixed. Better late than never... I'm sure if it can be arranged Rob and Philippa would love to attend that event. Alas Alexa Scott-Plummer is to bid farewell to her recently restored Mediaeval Keep Tower Country House and has asked if all who might would like to attend Mellerstain this summer as it will be her last opportunity to attend that gathering whilst living in the locale. I've a feeling the surrounding country lanes will be much quieter for "the lack of her 400 ""Lettice"" growling her warning of imminent " arrival at breakneck speed from around the next curve. Here's hoping 1999 will provide an occasion to have a bigger turnout than 1998. The AGM draws nearer and it is the first chance to gather and meet old friends from further afield. It will be a breath of fresh sea air located on the North bank of the River Humber estuary in East Riding of Yorkshire. Naturally full details and booking instructions are on "the ""Events"" page. " Well if there was anything else I've forgotten it. So I bid you adieu. 'til the next time. Bob "Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:43 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: ERA Bristol CC: puffer@cix.co.uk "Bob, " "see page 126 , 127 and 129 of LJKS latest tome (The Image). " AFAIK the G type ERA always had Bristol engines. "regards, " Andrew Blow Winterbourne Monkton SN4 9NW UK Fax: 0171 919 4479 la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id CAA02250 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 02:28:44 -0800 (PST) " "Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:43 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: ERA Bristol Cc: puffer@cix.co.uk "> Bob, " "> see page 126 , 127 and 129 of LJKS latest tome (The Image). " > AFAIK the G type ERA always had Bristol engines. "I know, I know. One of these days I'll get time to read it. ;)) " "> regards, " ditto. Bob Charlton From: Postmaster "Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:16:53 +0100 " Subject: Re: unleaded fuel References: <37098A81.4F691D24@sprynet.com> "In article <37098A81.4F691D24@sprynet.com>, " SdeB wrote: > Does anyone know which Bristols take unleaded fuel without > additives? I'm interested in particular in the 409 - one owner said > it did but one of the popular classic car magazines indicates that > it doesn't. > any information would be helpful > thanks > Shane de Burca [ I was told the 410 onwards but don't know who to believe. I know Martin Barnes has been modifying V-8 engines for some time. This area is to be addressed I believe on the Sunday Morning of the "AGM., so there ought to be more definitive information then. " I have read that a number of additives have now been tested at MIRA and the top 4 are listed and discussed in the Classic Car Mags currently for sale hopefully more in NetNews... but I'm running behind trying to get the lists promised sorted out. At Beta stage at the moment. More later Shane - Bob ] "Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:16:01 -0400 " From: SdeB Subject: unleaded fuel ReSent-From: Postmaster Does anyone know which Bristols take unleaded fuel without additives? I'm interested in particular in the 409 - one owner said it did but one of the popular classic car magazines indicates that it doesn't. any information would be helpful thanks Shane de Burca " (BST) "Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:34:27 +0100 " "From: ""Stephen WALL"" " Subject: Re: unleaded fuel ReSent-From: Bob Charlton [ From Stephen Wall ] Just a quick note regarding 6 cylinder engines. Bristol cars converted my 405 to unleaded last summer - hefty bill - but since then it has run magnificently - and I have noticed no degredation in performance. My understanding of the tests run recently with regard to lead susbstitutes is that they did not eliminate valve seat recession but reduced it to below an agreed level. Do valve seats recess when used with leaded fuel? "Not being an engineer i would like to know if the ""acceptable"" level of valve recession " will result in the engine longevity being the same as with leaded fuel or simply mean that "the engine will last an ""acceptable"" length of time. (I ask with regard to the rest of my old " bangers that haven't been converted!) [ Sorry about this temporary I hope message bouncing I don't want to have to reply to everything even if I could... There seems to be a local glitch on transfer protocol which I'm currently investigating... Bob ] 1999 00:23:00 +1200 "Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:23:37 +1300 " From: Chris Browne Subject: Re: Unleaded fuel Re the following: >Does anyone know which Bristols take unleaded fuel without additives? >I'm interested in particular in the 409 - one owner said it did but one >of the popular classic car magazines indicates that it doesn't. >any information would be helpful New Zealand has been through this in recent years. Our experience was not at all positive although much of the problem seems to have been the abysmal quality of the allegedly premium unleaded fuel which replaced leaded super here. The result was a lot of destroyed engines with no one accepting responsibility and blaming the owners for poor maintenance. The worst affected were higher performance engines from the 1960s and 1970s which ran high compressions without modern engine management systems. My "1975 BMW 3.0CS still will not run properly on straight premium unleaded, " "even with a fuel cataylst, and requires a healthy slug of (illegal)100+ " octane racing fuel (which contains lead as it happens) to run acceptably and quietly. Tacit official acknowledgement of the problem meant that jet boats (which run high performance car engines) and aircraft were granted a dispensation from the lead ban on safety grounds. Classic car owners were not so well organised. Most Bristol engines in stock form should not suffer "from this problem, especially as I gather that unleaded fuel with genuinely " high octanes will be available in England. "Valve seat recession turned out to be far less of a problem in comparison, " possibly beacuse the real problem above was not expected and tended to show up pretty quickly and dramatically. The results of everything that I have read and tried however are not encouraging. It seems to be reasonably well established that none of the additives offers the same protection as leaded "fuel. Fuel catylsts (Fuelstar, Carbonflo etc) have been damned as snake oil " in scientific tests and by the AA but every skilled motor engineer that I have come across swears by them and reports invariable success with poor running engines from their use. Certainly they have made all of my cars run far better on unleaded fuel than otherwise (even cars designed to run on unleaded). This is not a subtle effect but quite noticeable from behind the wheel. Whether fuel catalyst claims about protection from VSR have "substance, no one knows. The state of knowledge about preventing VSR seems " no better now than it was when New Zealand dumped unleaded. Be under no "illusions, banning unleaded caused serious problems with many of our older " vehicles here. "Interestingly, a local classic car magazine ran a completely unscientific " test on 3 Hillman Hunters in average condition for their age (so you "appreciate the lack of a control). They were to be run for 5,000kms (3,000 " miles) from memory each using a different solution. The car running an additive sooted plugs and suffered total engine failure before the test distance was completed (ruining the result really) and the car running a fuel catalyst ran best and showed less VSR than the car running premium "unleaded alone. Not science, but real-world experience? " "I have read that lead ""memory"" for VSR protection is good for several " thousand miles but is wiped out by the use of the additives. Some care is warranted here. Officially non-turbocharged Bristols since and including the 411 series 5 "(""J"" series 400 ci) have engines with valve seats designed to run without " lead. Everything else will need hardened seats. None of the stock engines run compression ratios likely to be a problem in England. I would be happy to answer any questions about the New Zealand experience. Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@iprolink.co.nz From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: unleaded fuel CC: puffer@cix.co.uk "409 does not take unleaded as standard, but whether or not it will make " any difference is anyone's guess. There is one in NZ (Claude Lewenz's car) running on unleaded for at least a year...any bad effects Claude? Note also that the kiwis have run 2 litres very enthusiastically on unleaded with no ill effects as far as I know (they use these fuel star in line devices which I do not believe do anything at all...) "First Bristol to take unleaded from new (as far as I know, and I may be " "wrong) is the 411 S5 with ""J"" series engine, and any 412s fitted with this " engine. The 360 engine fitted thereafter is unleaded except for the turbo-charged cars. "BRISTOL CARS should be consulted on these points, but I have never seen it " in writing from them. "regards, " Andrew Blow Andrew Blow Phone +44 1672 539689 Fax +44 171 919 4479 "(Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK) " From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:54:56 +0100 " Subject: NetNews#14 BOC NetNews#14 -------------- "Well this feels a little thin this time, but that does not mean much " has not been happening. Of course this time of year between January and end March the files all need upgrading who has left who has joined which cars have been let go and which have been acquired. Hopefully the back of this is now broken and time can be spent getting the car ready for its first trip. But not until we get rid of the Snow and they stop spreading Rock Salt and grit everywhere and whenever but never when and where it is actually needed. I have recently acquired one of these new gadgets being sold by various outlets which adds to the functionality of the trusty CarCoon by charging and discharging the Car Battery... and should the Public Supply of Electricity fail it can also draw power from the Car Battery... maintaining its function until the power is restored... (or the car battery is discharged) ...at which point it eventually goes back to powering the tiny "computer sized 3 inch 12 volt electric fans, which not only inflate " the giant Plastic Bag containing my 400 - but also constantly change "the air several times an hour, and simultaneously it starts to " replenish the Battery Charge. I suppose I'll know if it worked when after 5 months the Battery turns over the engine and fires it up for the first time this year. A fringe benefit has been noted that the level of condensation has also been much reduced if not almost eliminated thanks to this and a small Greenhouse Fan Heater which is set to keep the temperature between ambient and not less than +50 deg.C and its fan circulates the air around the rest of the Garage. Running costs ar minimal if I remember correctly it costs about a Penny or two for the CarCoon Supply and about the same for the Greenhouse Heater depending how cold it gets. Its worth it all for my peace of mind alone. The new unit is being advertised for 39.95 UK pounds but when I said I already had been supplied with a CarCoon they reduced the price instantly to 29.95 UK Pounds incl.. How kind ;-) Its never wrong to ask! :-)) Local News District Council goes daft!!...>:-< Nothing new about that I thought but read on... This letter of complaint in our local paper was written by a Lady who's house overlooks the Public Park and Gardens. She politely enquired why a squad of Half a Dozen Council workers had spent the whole of last Tuesday morning out with their Grass cutting machines marching gaily back and forth up and down... when they were walking on grass covered with what to her appeared to be _at least_ an inch and a half of Snow!!! Nobody from the District Council was available for comment. Are they ever? ...but the Newspaper Editor did say that the report had been passed to the appropriate Department Head. Is that a euphemism for what we used to call 'file 13' namely the bucket in the corner filled by nightfall with a liberal sprinkling of crumpled paper and yet miraculously always empty by morning...?:-( It would be more effective to fly them out to Albania to man the Field Kitchens and also do more good leaving the grass alone... imho of course! Now a last minute reminder (well almost) to those of you who forgot about Andrew's Car Boot sale and Parts Extravaganza which was mentioned in NetNews#11 takes place TOMORROW so if you are looking for the odd 'floggle toggle' or 'screwinit' don't forget to go if you can. I understand it was mentioned in the Daily Telegraph Motoring Section last week-end so Andrew tells me - and that his phone has been "ringing ""off the hook"". " 'a little reminder' [ a 'Bring and Buy Car Boot type sale' or 'Bristol Bits 'n' Pieces Day' arranged to be held ; "Saturday 17th April at Meales Farm, Sulhamstead, Nr.Reading, England " "There are many parts - and these include a number of ""barn fresh"" " "cars for restoration, a large quantity of spares and _even_ a " "stripped 400 chassis, all from the David Jones ""hoard"", plus, we " "hope, lots of spares and cars from everyone else. ] " Hope the Sun shines and everyone finds something they want. How I wish I could be there. But not to be. 'nuff said. "Not had much chance to check my usual Mags in detail this month,... " ...but I did see a letter from Tony Crook printed in the CLASSIC and SPORTSCAR titled 'Bristol thoughts' reminiscing about his fight for the Motor Sport Trophy 1951 at Goodwood. In which after giving Mike Hawthorn's Riley Special a 17 second handicap lead he failed by less than a few yards to beat him to the line driving in his trusty Frazer Nash Le Mans Replica model with which he had campaigned to great and good effect that season. It seems that a number of people were smelling Nitro-Methane fuel coming from Hawthorns car (which of course was not allowed in that Class!>:o) and Hawthorn said Mr Crook seemed a bit sheepish when he was congratulating both Mike and his Father Leslie. Not the done thing for gents to complain in those days. There's more - but I won't spoil it for you suffice it to say it illuminating stuff. Its all on page 47 of the May edtn. Tony's recollection of the day and the chase set me wondering of another chase for a Championship and what Bernie Ecclestone said to "Schumacher and the Ferrari Team boss, after ""the Cobbler"" stormed " into the McLaren Mercedes Garage and attempted - I think totally insanely - to knock David Coulthard's head from his shoulders. What a pity the Pit Crews and Local Management pulled him off - I'd have loved to see David belt him into the middle of next week. Of course I'm not biased at all you see! ;)) It would though have "been the reverse match of ""David and Goliath"" and naturally all the " sympathy would be for Michael 'the blunderboy'. I just think any driver that crashes into another car from behind at such a speed in rotten visibility hard enough to tear the wheel and suspension totally off his own car putting himself his car the other driver and spectators at risk of injury is totally MAD! What would have happened if Coulthard had been killed or seriously injured in the shunt I dread to think. _I DO KNOW_ it would NOT have been Michael's fault according to Murray Walker. /And he is not biased either/... ;)) Moving across the street to CLASSIC CARS - there is the promised comparison between a Post WW2 Type 400 Saloon and a Pre WW2 BMW327/80. But hold on a doggone minute!! What was fair about that either!!! A Drophead weighing in nearly 400!!! pounds lighter than a solid Steel Saloon is surprise SURPRISE - the faster and more mobile car on the road. Its like saying a Mini is more sprightly than a Land Rover Series 1 - its nearest unlikely equivalent size and weight wise. But NOT the same horses for courses in my book... Of course the judges were all unbiased. ;)) only Andrew had a foot in each camp the others were strictly neutral one being a BMW owner and restorer and the other saying he still cherishes the memories he has of a day with a BMW in the past... quick hand me my Cut throat Razor! >>:-< sic sic sic Its all on pages 94 to 98 and there are some good pictures and data... I'll tuck it away at the back of my scrap book though. Please write floods of letters of complaint to the Editor at classic.cars@ecm.emap.com and don't mention my name I've got to keep persuading them to keep writing about Bristols... and such like. All for now. Mutter mutter mutter mutter ;)) 'til the next time. P.S.. Don't forget the AGM on at the end of this month in where the heck? oh! See events page of web site. Also book 5th of September in your diary. Bristol Day and Concours at Weston Park House and gardens more on the events page later tonight. www.boc.net/bristol/ How could I forget to tell you that! bye! :-) Bob Charlton * * http://www.boc.net/bristol/ To Contribute to Forum subscribers use the address Forum@boc.net More about Forum in the Members Area of the Domain From: Postmaster "Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:16:04 +0100 " Subject: Re: Forum References: <3.0.5.32.19990429165120.0079a410@ozemail.com.au> "In article <3.0.5.32.19990429165120.0079a410@ozemail.com.au>, " H D Knox wrote: "> I like the new format, however my problem is of my own making since " > I upgraded my hardware to petium plus w98 in the process lost all > my email addresses and for that matter all old correspondence > Please give me the forum email as I have some Bristol info out of > last weeks Sydney Herald motoring section Regards Hugh Sorry to hear that Hugh the address is simply forum@boc.net if I remember correctly its in the signature. If you want the last NetNews dispatched again I'll be happy to oblige. "cheers, " Apr 1999 06:51:22 +1000 (EST) "Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:00:48 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: Publicity? "Our Sydney Morning Herald has a ""DRIVE"" supplement on fridays. Last week " entitled """Simply the Worst""---- stupid design,bad styling,appalling quality ...and " more. "Amongst the various expected lemons Hindustan Ambassador, Lada, Zil, and " Irans Paykan what should figure complete with photo Bristols Blenheim 2! "The motoring writer Tony Davis quotes........"" England is also the home of " some truly horrible low-volume sports cars. Consider the Bristol Blenheim "2. You could perhaps forgive the pushrod Chrysler engine, four speed manual " "box, live rear axle, seperate chassis and complete lack of modern " technology if it looked good or was cheap. It looks dated and ungainly and "costs more than $300,000."" " Needless to say none of the cars referred to are sold in our market. "Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:07 +0100 (PDT) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Publicity? CC: puffer@cix.co.uk Always easy to knock things when you make nothing of merit yourselves.... "Ok, ok, some of the Holdens are wild cars I understand, but we never see " them over here. Andrew Blow Phone +44 1672 539689 Fax +44 171 919 4479 "(Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK) " "1998)) id 4A256763.0050F183 ; Sat, 1 May 1999 00:44:07 +1000 " From: kevin.howard@staffsolutions.com.au "cc: Forum@boc.net, puffer@cix.co.uk " "Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 00:43:50 +1000 " Subject: Re: Publicity? "Andrew, " "The 'wild' Holdens are crass and basic , believe me you're not missing " anything ! It would be interesting to find out if Mr Davis (of the SMH) has ever even "been for a drive in a Bristol, of any type, let alone a Blenheim 2 ! " I'm afraid you can't expect much more from a Sydney newspaper ;-) Kevin Howard Melbourne puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) on 04/30/99 07:07:00 PM Please respond to puffer@cix.co.uk; Please respond to Forum@boc.net cc: puffer@cix.co.uk (bcc: Kevin Howard/Melb/StaffSolutions) Subject: Re: Publicity? Always easy to knock things when you make nothing of merit yourselves.... "Ok, ok, some of the Holdens are wild cars I understand, but we never see " them over here. Andrew Blow Phone +44 1672 539689 Fax +44 171 919 4479 "(Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK) " [ Attachment removed sorry Kevin not allowed by concencus of those in the group please switch off any auto attachement next time. No harm done. Bob ] la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id IAA15237 for ; "Sat, 1 May 1999 08:39:20 -0700 (PDT) " "1998)) id 4A256764.00494A92 ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:20:32 +1000 " From: kevin.howard@staffsolutions.com.au "Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:20:25 +1000 " Subject: 411 help .... "Dear fellow BOC members, " I have just acquired a 411 Series V which I intend to restore to original condition. After joining BOC I was horrified to discover that no reprints of manuals etc are available for the 411 and Bristol do not have anything. Would any fellow Bristol owners be able to supply me with photocopies of "owners manual, parts list and workshop manual ? " I am happy to pay any cost associated with this. "Many thanks, " Kevin Howard Staff Solutions Group Pty Ltd "Level 3, 616 St. Kilda Road " "Melbourne, VIC, 3004, Australia " Fax: +61 3 9510 1020 URL: www.staffsolutions.com.au 1999 21:05:52 +1200 "Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:07:22 +1300 " From: Chris Browne Subject: Re: 411 help .... Kevin Howard wrote: >I have just acquired a 411 Series V which I intend to restore to original >condition. Congratulations on your purchase of a fine motorcar. >Would any fellow Bristol owners be able to supply me with photocopies of ">owners manual, parts list and workshop manual ? " "So far as I am aware, these are ""not available"" from Bristol Cars because " "they do not exist! If I am wrong about this, then, as an owner of a 411 s4, " I would would also be interested in acquiring a copy (and meeting the cost thereof) Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@iprolink.co.nz From: Bob Charlton "Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:09:13 +0100 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... ReSent-From: Postmaster > Kevin Howard wrote: > >I have just acquired a 411 Series V which I intend to restore to > >original condition. > Congratulations on your purchase of a fine motorcar. > >Would any fellow Bristol owners be able to supply me with "> >photocopies of owners manual, parts list and workshop manual ? " "> So far as I am aware, these are ""not available"" from Bristol Cars " "> because they do not exist! If I am wrong about this, then, as an " "> owner of a 411 s4, I would would also be interested in acquiring a " > copy (and meeting the cost thereof) "> Chris Browne Auckland, New Zealand irie@iprolink.co.nz " [ I suggest you Email Arnold Bettess our Reprint Officer after Monday and before Friday his account is at the Lancaster College and as I have found these various teaching institutions seem to be a bit fickle about picking up Staff Email at the week-ends and on Holidays. Perhaps something to do with the Students being allowed Internet access during these periods in term? I haven't figured that one out yet!:-o) Bob P.S. Arnold's Email address is abettess@accross.ac.uk ] From: Bob Charlton "Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:15:01 +0100 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... References: <4A256764.004948CA.00@melb.staffsolutions.com.au> ReSent-From: Postmaster "In article , " Chris Browne wrote: "> So far as I am aware, these are ""not available"" from Bristol Cars " "> because they do not exist! If I am wrong about this, then, as an " "> owner of a 411 s4, I would would also be interested in acquiring a " > copy (and meeting the cost thereof) This has raised another interesting point - or rather stream of points. When Bristol discover some improvement or operating fault - how do you get to hear of it? Does it only find its way onto cars serviced by Bristol Cars Ltd. or have they instituted some form of retro Owner notification by Postcard/Letter. I have raised this matter in respect of the many cars which never see Filton for decades perhaps longer ; eg. My 400 has not seen the Filton Workshops for more than a quarter of a century! But at Least it has a decent Workshop Manual and Handbook and I do have contacts with expertise in the trade for some of the occasions when I get near stuck! As a starting point of knowledge assistance I presume Chryler have a Manual for their Engines? ditto the Auto Transmission? Are these supplied with the car new? Does anyone know? Things such as ; eg. the known effects of reduced Front Spring recovery on the suspension of the V8 cars... ...the effect of internal collapse of the walls of some Power Assisted Brake Servo units Vacuum Pipes. another ; eg. The need to keep Timing Chains within tolerances to avoid timing gear getting out of correct setting by a tooth with chronic after affects. Claude Lewenz I seem to remember remarked on a number of valuable lessons learned with dirty fuel filtration and defective fuel pumps... I have recently been advised by Michael Haig of two websites which may be of interest to owners of the V8 engines and these aparently deal with the units up to the present - fitted to the Blenheim 2 of course. "> May I suggest a couple of links to add to the club website, " > relating to Chrysler engines. Of interest to owners of > 407 / 408 / 409 / 410 > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/4164/ > This is a site devoted to the Polyspherical Head family of V8s "> Chrysler general technical information, including early V8s, Hemis " > and wedge heads and the latest version. > http://www.allpar.com/ Hope these may be of some help. Not easy for me to know when I am not exactly familiar with these beasties. I've only ever been driven in one - a 410 and that was only a very short trip. Perhaps a policy of notification of important points ought to be established between the various clubs and we naturally at BOC will do our part in liaison with Bristol Cars Ltd.. There are a couple of people already designated to look into some such areas. Clearly if nothing is happening - its either good news - or no bad news notification at all! If the latter scenario this is quite alarming! ):-o( I look forward to any salient comment. Bob Charlton From: Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 19:17:04 +0100 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... References: <4A256764.004948CA.00@melb.staffsolutions.com.au> "On 03 May, Bob Schmitt wrote: " > Bob & others - I wrote Bob Schmitt quoted ; > > As a starting point of knowledge assistance I presume Chrysler > > have a Manual for their Engines? ditto the Auto Transmission? > > Are these supplied with the car new? Does anyone know? "> I'd be glad to hunt for the Chrysler service manuals, but the small " "> block and trans were in many cars over many years, so if we could " "> narrow it to a small set of specs (years, carbs, etc.), I'll see " > what I can dig up. In this instance it would be fair to start with what makes 411s4 and 411s5 go - since we have two members with these specifics needing documentation of sorts. Naturally all matter of course. I did visit the two addresses I was passed (as reported) for the data on V-8 spares and swop able items - but to be honest - it needs looking at by someone with more V8 hands on knowledge to be able to assess the value really obtainable therefrom. Find it hard to believe there is nothing supplied with the car even if its only an envelope with sketches on it - though that would be exceeding crass for a car costing several thousands of pounds - thus highly unlikely. "> In Burbank (home sweet home), we have two auto bookshops, " > separately handling new and used literature. If anyone would like "> to deal direct with these stores, I'll dig up addresses & phone " > numbers. Am going to build a page on the Club Members part of the website with these addresses and data available therefrom - because it is something practical and missing from the site at the moment. Trouble is the data must be both valid and meaningful if it is designed to help - so any Bristol associated links are acceptable once tested. The page can be easily assembled on the fly simply adding info as it comes available. > Bob ditto ;)) "Mon, 3 May 1999 12:15:23 -0700 (PDT) " "Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 12:15:24 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: 411 help ....Chrysler Engines References: <4A256764.004948CA.00@melb.staffsolutions.com.au> Bob & others - Here's the two bookstores in Burbank: Automotive Books 1508A W. Magnolia Blvd. Burbank CA 91506 818-TH5-1202 "Fred Chaparro, owner " Autobooks 3524 W. Magnolia Blvd. Burbank CA 91505 213-849-1294 818-845-0707 Both of these places are very close to where I live and I'd be glad to personally check out any item anyone may be interested in. "Needless to say, there are many ""MOPAR"" web sites and tech sources for " "parts and repair info. I'm in touch with tech info for my other car, a " "'66 Imperial. The '81-83 Imperial used the ""small block"" V-8 nearly " "identical to the Bristol (except a unique FI system), so even the " Imperial web sites somewhat cover this drivetrain. MOPAR Performance is the Chrysler division making specialty parts for "both the ""small block"" and ""big block"" (including the hemis) engines, " so I would expect a Bristol V-8 owner could build an engine to any performance specification desired. Bob "PS Just returned from a Visalia, California ""statwide"" Imperial meet " where we assembled about 50 of these wonderful monsters from '39 through '72. My '66 LeBaron feeds my car needs while my Frazer Nash restoration "continues. The 227"" long, 5200 lb. ""Blue Baron"" covered 550 miles, " "including a twisty, rainy climbing sidetrip up to 6700' to see the " "sequoias, with the 440 cu in. engine using 47 gal of 92 octane at " $1.67/gal. More exciting coming down with the old drum brakes! With """light"" competition in my year category, I was still happy to be voted " first in class at the meet. "Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:52 +0100 (PDT) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: 411 owners manual CC: puffer@cix.co.uk "I have only ever seen an owners handbook for the original 411, which we " now call the S1. Sometimes with later 411s you see these manuals with insert sheets and/or amendments telling you that the engine size is bigger "or that different size tyres are fitted, but nothing that you could call a " proper revision. "I sometimes have these ""S1"" handbooks in stock but do not at the moment. " Arnold I am sure can supply you a photocopy. "There never was a full Workshop Manual for any model after the 405, " "presumably as company policy changed to getting rid of other sales agents, " and hence the need for such documents diminished. "For the 410 model there is a ""proper"" Instruction manual plus an " "Illustrated spares handbook (entitled 408Mk 11, 409 and 410). I have never " seen a spares handbook for a 411 or later cars. I currently have a mint 410 Instruction manual (rebound with stiff "covers), an excellent 409 manual and a slightly grubby 408 etc. spares " handbook for sale- all at 45 UKP each plus postage. "Regards, " Andrew Blow Phone +44 1672 539689 Fax +44 171 919 4479 "(Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK) " "for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:57:12 -0700 (PDT) " From: Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 16:44:54 +0100 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... [ Recd.today from Kevin Howard - Thanks Kevin ] "Firstly, having only joined BOC about a week ago I must say I am very " impressed with the enthusiasm with which members exchange "information, and all by email, which is almost remarkable consdering " we are owners of such a conservative British marque. I wish I could say the same for the AMOC ! Having spoken to Bristol several times in the last week I can confirm that a workshop manual definitely does NOT exist for the 411 (sorry didn't ask about previous V8 models). An owners handbook was supplied with new cars and although a parts book exists it is for Bristol internal use only and has never been published. Even Bristol "themselves rely on American books for information on the engines, " such as books on DeSoto cars (spelling probably incorrect). They said that the only difference between the orignal Chrysler 400 cu inch engines and those fitted to the 411 was that those fitted to Bristols were 'blue printed'. I also discussed restoring the self leveling suspension system and they told me that even they disconnected them because they could not stop the system leaking and it only really played a role when the car "was fully laden with passengers and luggage, and you can fit a lot of " luggage in a 411 ! Apparently the system was never able to react quickly enough to aid the handling of the car under normal load conditions. Another point worth mentioning. After buying my 411 recently I was horrified to discover that the shock absorber (damper) on the passenger side at the front seemed to have seized and the brackets "which connect it to the lower wishbone had completely sheared, " leaving the damper disconnected at the bottom. Furthermore the cup to which the top of the damper is connected had partly broken away from the sub frame and the sub frame was cracked where it forms a seat for the top of the coil spring. "Bristol said that this problem had been encountered before, in fact " "theyseemed quite familiar with the problem, although they would not " acknowledge it as a common fault. They also told me that they no longer fit Koni shock absorbers to the 411s and now use a Spax unit number G712. "Also the Otter switch for the electric fans are no longer available, " although they can be replaced by a similar unit fitted to Jaguars "which have switching temps between 92 and 95 degrees celcius, whereas " the original switch fitted to the 411 Series V operated at 98 degrees. As Bob Charlton suggested a dedicated area on the BOC web site for valid information on specific models or groups of models would be really useful ! .................................................................. [ Actually it was another member but the aim is clearly the same. There are Bristol owners located in the wilds of Canada to the "outback of Australia, even Scotland ;)) so it is no surprise to me " that this medium which can be but a touch of a few buttons away when "the going gets tough, is readily adopted by the forward thinking " crowd. ;)) The rest... well... they'll get educated eventually... as it seems everything that moves these days is internet connected somehow. eg.I bought a set of Wood Veneer trim for the Discovery this morning advertised on the internet and at a price of 270 UK Pounds RRP from Land Rover parts. The price I paid was 29.95p + post and packing. - I kid you not :)) see the grin and view ; http://lr.merseyworld.com/ I read about it in the LRO magazine last Thursday. They also have a wide range of parts for all other models but alas not for the Bristol! cheers - Bob ] la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id EAA18452 for " Tue, 4 May 1999 15:36:36 -0400 " Sender: alberry@csi.com 20:39:24 +-100 From: Adrian Berry Subject: RE: 411 help .... "Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:29:22 +-100 " I remember seeing a Torqueflight manual at Richard Peacock's last year. "I'm not sure if it was a Chrysler or a Bristol publication, but it was " hard back and a proper book. Perhaps if Arnold and others spoke to him "nicely, he would allow it to be photocopied and made available via the " club re-print service. "On the subject of the Dunlop self leveling suspension, I was surprised " when returning from France with four adults and a boot full of wine that my 412 showed very little difference in handling characteristics and absolutely no change in headlight alignment. Perhaps the car just liked the wine! I agree with Andrew on the workshop information published by Bristol and "their reasons for not releasing it, but they will still provide owner's " manuals for most types. Regards Adrian "Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:47:58 +0100 " From: Sue & Richard Peacock Subject: Re: 411 help .... "In message <01BE966E.326B14C0@mfs-pci-bqp-vty114.as.wcom.net>, Adrian " Berry writes >I remember seeing a Torqueflight manual at Richard Peacock's last year. ">I'm not sure if it was a Chrysler or a Bristol publication, but it was " >hard back and a proper book. Perhaps if Arnold and others spoke to him ">nicely, he would allow it to be photocopied and made available via the " >club re-print service. The book to which Adrian refers was published by Bristol "Cars Ltd. in the same format , with blue paper covers, as earlier " "workshop manuals, and was entitled 'Instructions for the Maintenance in " the Car of the Torque-Flite Transmission' "If Arnold does not already have a master from which to make copies, then " I would be pleased to make mine available for copying. Richard. ">On the subject of the Dunlop self leveling suspension, I was surprised " >when returning from France with four adults and a boot full of wine that >my 412 showed very little difference in handling characteristics and >absolutely no change in headlight alignment. Perhaps the car just liked >the wine! >I agree with Andrew on the workshop information published by Bristol and ">their reasons for not releasing it, but they will still provide owner's " >manuals for most types. >Regards >Adrian >[ attachment removed - Bob ] Sue & Richard Peacock la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id EAA09287 for mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id DAA21716 for From: Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 11:30:55 +0100 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... References: <01BE966E.326B14C0@mfs-pci-bqp-vty114.as.wcom.net> "In article , " Chris Browne wrote: > A very kind offer. Could this be made available through BOC > (reprints service or website) so a few of us could benefit? I think that is the point of Richard and Sues's kind offer. I'm sure it will be followed through. > Recent messages confirmed my understanding of what has been > available for the 411. Only a handbook was released; a parts list > exists at Bristol Cars but has never been released publicly; no > workshop manual exists. Yes I think that states the precise position. AT THE MOMENT. > The continued non-availability of a parts lists is the most "> frustrating (because it actually exists and, I would have thought, " > would encourage owners to order parts from Bristol Cars). It's a moot point because they equally claim demand doesn't justify stocking minimum order requirements of parts. I was more concerned initially with SAFETY BULLETINS being made available when I last raised this subject with Geoff.Hawkins (Hon.Secy. BOC). The point was taken very seriously - and I expect it to be raised at next BOC Committee meeting. A Parts List would be useful too. But this falls into David Crownshaws area of responsibility. You may contact David by Email his address editor@bocnews.demon.co.uk this may sound a little stupid but it is currently correct. To explain Adrian Berry is the Editor of BOC Newsletter as is shown in the website Service Handbook area. David simply has not got round to altering his email address since his wife Cathy was the Editor of same. Having said that the parts list for Chrysler items is more likely to "be up to date if obtained from the USA., so it might be worth using " the links already provided if you know what you seek? > Could Bristol Cars be persuaded to release this document to BOC? I will copy this request to Geoff. who is alas not yet on Email but he is intending to move in that direction once circumstances allow. He is very busy at the moment in conection with matters that are not for discussion publicly but no comments passed are forgotten he is meticulous in these matters. I expect to be in conversation with him when he returns from Brussels this week end. I will certainly fax him this request. If you like _you may too_ and the number to use is 00 +44 1480 497836 This is a dedicated machine so you will get it at times to suit your own time zone and it will not disturb the household - because it does not ring out in the house. I hope this helps. Bob P.S.. My thanks to Richard for his kind offer. References: <01BE966E.326B14C0@mfs-pci-bqp-vty114.as.wcom.net> "Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 19:44:12 +1300 " From: Chris Browne Subject: Re: 411 help .... Richard wrote: >> >The book to which Adrian refers was published by Bristol ">Cars Ltd. in the same format , with blue paper covers, as earlier " ">workshop manuals, and was entitled 'Instructions for the Maintenance in " >the Car of the Torque-Flite Transmission' ">If Arnold does not already have a master from which to make copies, then " >I would be pleased to make mine available for copying. A very kind offer. Could this be made available through BOC (reprints service or website) so a few of us could benefit? Recent messages confirmed my understanding of what has been available for the 411. Only a handbook was released; a parts list exists at Bristol Cars but has never been released publicly; no workshop manual exists. The continued non-availability of a parts lists is the most frustrating "(because it actually exists and, I would have thought, would encourage " owners to order parts from Bristol Cars). Could Bristol Cars be persuaded to release this document to BOC? Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@iprolink.co.nz "Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 18:45:33 +0800 " From: Stuart Subject: Manuals "Here's a US company I've used a few times, they used to have some Bristol " "books but these are no longer in their catalogue, however the following is " a selection from the Chrysler and other sections: "- Chrysler engine overhaul manual, Haynes, $16.95 " "- Chrysler part and casting numbers book 1962 - 1974, $10 " - How to repair and modify Chevrolet fuel injection $16.95 "Classic Motorbooks, " Ph: 1 800 826 6600 Fax: +1 715 294 4448 email: mbibks@win.bright.net www.motorbooks.com "Once you've ordered a book they send you a (130+ page) catalogue every year, " Stuart Smith (soon to move my 405 from UK to New Zealand) Stuart Smith Fujimi Services Ltd. "PO Box 20116, Hennessy Road PO, " Hong Kong. Ph: +852 2834 3896 Fax: +852 2834 0463 e-mail: stuar37@ibm.net From: Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 19:05:53 +0100 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... "If you mention BOC, I think it is very unlikely that Bristol Cars " would help. You are much better going to them as an individual owner than as "part of the BOC, in my experience (admittedly a little jaundiced...) " Andrew Blow Phone +44 1672 539689 Fax +44 171 919 4479 "(Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK) " la1.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA02065 for From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 20:37:22 +0100 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... References: <48fe129281Postmaster@argonet.co.uk> <37322135.F49@pacbell.net> "On 07 May, Bob Schmitt wrote: " > Perhaps some of the V-8 owners would like to see a MOPAR Perf. "> flyer, as attached? " Thanks Bob. Well I suppose the thing to do is offer it to them on a request basis because they decided attachements were not to be allowed as a rule in the discussion group. I could copy this to Forum and see what the response is. Alternately rather than launching it direct... I could incorporate it on a page of the website not yet constructed. That might be simpler... OK that's what I'll do.... If you want to see the Flyer Bob Schnitt has provided goto http://www.boc.net/bristol/links.html at least that way convention is applied. Full size is ~340K i've supplied a thumbnail Gif Hope this helps. Bob Charlton From: Bob Charlton "Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 13:47:34 +0100 " "Subject: Re: 411 help, V-8 variety .... " References: <48fe129281Postmaster@argonet.co.uk> <37322135.F49@pacbell.net> Bob - "My goodness, that's a big picture! That was a flyer from a show late " "last year, so I'll look for an update. And next time, I'll post it on " my web site and save you the trouble. Bob "PS These are mostly good for ""garage dreaming"". For example, when I " "wonder if the ""crate hemi"" would fit into the Imperial! " [ Dreams are made of this? - Bob ] From: Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 23:27:01 +0100 " Subject: Re: Self levelling suspension "Adrian, " Your mail (attached) states that the self levelling suspension on the 412 is a Dunlop system. The system fitted to the 411 was an Armstrong system. "Was Armstrong acquired by Dunlop ?, or were the 411 and 412 fitted " with different self levelling systems ? "According to Bristol Service, the conditions you describe are the only " conditions in which the self levelling suspension is of any value. I presume that your self levelling system is still connected and "working, has " this always been the case or has it required any attention ? I am wondering whether I should repair the system on my 411. I would really like to restore the car so I can experience the ride quality which "Denis Sevier worked so hard to achieve, however I have been advised " that it is not worth repairing the self levelling suspension. Apparently Bristol spent years working with Armstrong to develop this system. One would have to wonder why if it didn't make much difference ! Has anyone had the opportunity to compare this system in it's functioning and non functioning states ? "regards, " Kevin Howard Adrian Berry on 05/06/99 11:29:22 AM cc: (bcc: Kevin Howard/Melb/StaffSolutions) Subject: RE: 411 help .... I remember seeing a Torqueflight manual at Richard Peacock's last year. "I'm not sure if it was a Chrysler or a Bristol publication, but it was " hard back and a proper book. Perhaps if Arnold and others spoke to him "nicely, he would allow it to be photocopied and made available via the " club re-print service. "On the subject of the Dunlop self leveling suspension, I was surprised " when returning from France with four adults and a boot full of wine that my 412 showed very little difference in handling characteristics and absolutely no change in headlight alignment. Perhaps the car just liked the wine! I agree with Andrew on the workshop information published by Bristol and "their reasons for not releasing it, but they will still provide " owner's manuals for most types. Regards Adrian From: Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:25:10 +0100 " Subject: Re: Self levelling suspension Kevin Bristol Cars have always referred to the self leveling system as Dunlop when talking to me. It may be that the whole system was designed by Armstrong (famous for their shock absorbers) using some components manufactured by Dunlop. The Dunlop components being the unobtainable one's now. "My self leveling system was removed many years ago, so my comment " regarding ride and handling was meant to show that the system is not necessary for a controlled and comfortable ride. A disingenuous person might say that Bristol spent many years developing a number of different things which never saw the light of "day, or were of any great benefit to the cars as a whole. But I did " not say that. Good luck with the restoration. "By copy - Bob, why did I receive a perfect copy of Kevin's e-mail " from you about 1 hour after I received Kevin's? Regards Adrian [ Because he posted it to Forum and Cc:'d it to you or vice versa... So I posted the Forum designated text on and removed the Cc: to you otherwise you'd have received another bounced copy from me. As it is you only received the transmission I relayed to the Forum address list as dispatched by Kevin. Hope this makes sense. "I suppose Kevin just wanted to make doubly sure it arrived, or " thought yoou might not get the Forum relay as quickly? Don't know answer to that. Still an hour between Forum and direct dispatch is not bad going from the other side of the planet. ;-9 I normally remove any attachments and if I spot them any Bcc: or Cc: instructions. As was / is the will of those using Forum. Hope this helps - Bob ] "Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:32:17 +0100 " Subject: Fitting pancakes to Early SU's Whilst I'm about to slingshot another message off. Have we anyone here who has fitted Pancake Filters to the Early SU's. If so did you need to fit Spacers to clear the top of the centre bolt on the Float Chamber for carbs 2 and 3? Is there a proprietary unit which can be used on the 1 inch SU top flange. No one mentioned that problem and I got stuck fitting them. No space to get the casings down flat. Have commissioned fabrication of 3 spacers in Brass to do the job. Interested to know. It could be of use to others when they start copying my new sparkliing and noisy set up. Thanks in anticipation. Bob Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Visited the Clubs area of boc.net site yet? Forum - the chatline for Bristol interests. From: Bob Charlton postmaster@argonet.co.uk "Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:46:21 +0100 " Subject: NetNews#15 Apologies for the time lag since last comment. First for those in London Area a reminder that the Memorial Service for Godfrey takes place Tomorrow 21st june See News Page on Website. Next and a little in arrears I should mention that Kevin Kennedy is now the BOC Section Secy. for London Area I'm altering the appropriate pages but more of this later. "Classic Cars July 99 issue pages 140-141, has an article by Mick Walsh " on the Zagato cars and in particular the recently refurbished Type 406 of that description owned by John Hamshere. Which leads me nicely into offering congratulations to Gerry Acher another Club Member for the Award to him of the CBE in the recent Honours List. There have been a number of reports from a Club Member in Holland that despite all his efforts he can not get access to the Club Website. I cannot resolve his problem but would be interested if anyone else is being locked out and if they have identified the problem. Apart from the more obvious volume of traffic at off peak periods preventing access to a Server Modem. On the Website now - I am in the course of standardising the graphic names of the Website content. I'll advise when the changeover takes place because it means if you are fetching images from your _system cache_ they will no longer appear until you download the new version and can use that subsequently. It also means hundreds of links are "being changed to suit, and quite the largest job of all apart from " that factor is uploading the newly named files to the Website. Subsequently the redundant named files will be withdrawn to keep the site within its present more compact form. On the 2 Litre front I can confirm the success of the new Auto Battery charge / discharge unit. The 400 battery was in a good state of charge when the Carcoon was removed and the engine fired up with little "difficulty after its storage. I now have the ""rotary hair dryer"" " "shaped Air Filter box removed along with the Air Mixture Box, and have " installed K&N Pancake Filters matched to the Engine capacity and breathing - thanks to some invaluable help from Keith Bell in "assisting to modify the Crankcase ventilation system to my own design, " and also to Douglas Elder M.D. of a a local Engineering facility which "produced a set of 3 quite essential 3/8"" thick spacers in type 17 SS " for the 1 and 1/8 inch SU Carbs.. Brass would have been a better material but it proved impossible to source economically in the small quantity required. Surprisingly the modifications do not appear to have increased noise by much but the Airflow to the combustion chambers is much cleaner. Never did understand why the Crankcase Air Extraction was fed direct to the Air Mixture Box rather than straight back to the Air Cleaner Filter first. More efficient induction from the normal Piston aspiration cycle seems the most probable explanation. Or reduction of possibility of the carbs icing up. Though naturally providing more of a threat to maintaining the cleanliness of the tiny 10mm Spark Plugs. Now at last another session with the Crypton Tuner should sort out the correct mixture balance and fine tune the spark advance to optimum setting. "rgds., and happy Bristolling, " Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Visited the Clubs area of boc.net site yet? Forum - the chatline for Bristol interests. "1998)) id 4A25679A.00396B72 ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:27:10 +1000 " From: kevin.howard@staffsolutions.com.au "Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:27:03 +1000 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... "J"" " Apologies for such a tardy reply to this. I was following some email threads looking to see who offered information regarding in car maintenance of torqueflite transmission when I came across something which prompted further input. Bob suggested that the discussion regarding parts lists for 411's was a 'moot point' because Bristol don't stock spares. I have had numerous discussions with Bristol parts dept recently (which I will expand on at a later date) and they claim to have in stock most of the more essential parts for the 411. I for one would be very keen to acquire a parts list. "Regards, " Kevin Howard One minor correction though it is not commonly known Geoff.Hawkins BOC Hon.Secy. is now on line and getting to grips with the use of his machine. He does I believe intend to join Forum once he feels more confident... or was it competent? No I'm sure the former. ;)) ] "1998)) id 4A25679A.00396B72 ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:27:10 +1000 " From: kevin.howard@staffsolutions.com.au "Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:27:03 +1000 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... "J"" " Apologies for such a tardy reply to this. I was following some email threads looking to see who offered information regarding in car maintenance of torqueflite transmission when I came across something which prompted further input. Bob suggested that the discussion regarding parts lists for 411's was a 'moot point' because Bristol don't stock spares. I have had numerous discussions with Bristol parts dept recently (which I will expand on at a later date) and they claim to have in stock most of the more essential parts for the 411. I for one would be very keen to acquire a parts list. "Regards, " Kevin Howard One minor correction though it is not commonly known Geoff.Hawkins BOC Hon.Secy. is now on line and getting to grips with the use of his machine. He does I believe intend to join Forum once he feels more confident... or was it competent? No I'm sure the former. ;)) ] From: Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:07:30 +0100 " Subject: Re: 411 help .... References: <4A25679A.00396B5F.00@melb.staffsolutions.com.au> "In article <4A25679A.00396B5F.00@melb.staffsolutions.com.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: > Bob suggested that the discussion regarding parts lists for 411's > was a 'moot point' because Bristol don't stock spares. I have had > numerous discussions with Bristol parts dept recently (which I will > expand on at a later date) and they claim to have in stock most of > the more essential parts for the 411. I did _not_ suggest no parts were available. Indeed it had already been made known here - that there exists a parts list - but it isn't being made available (as far as I have learned from this group). As to the claim what is and isn't actually on the shelf... that is quite another story and the only way to find out is to make a specific request and hope its on the seemingly 'secret 411 Parts List' - and thus actually likely to be in stock. I'm not about to go down the route of extolling the quality of Bristol 411 parts and availability because ; a) I don't have a 411 b) I don't know what they normally require most frequently. c) I don't know what you specifically require. Further have you asked David Crownshaw as was originally suggested? Finally try asking for flexible Brake Pipes for a 400! Now I would call that a safety item. Not available the last time I "asked - they had 1 (0ne for the rear, none for the front). " I suspect that I will be getting them custom made as has been the only alternate solution to so many of these things in the past. Hope this helps Bob Charlton Cc: Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:05:41 BST " Subject: BOC Net News #02 First can I draw your attention to an address change for Register correspondence. I would be grateful for your cooperation by adopting the following; Please address REGISTER matters to me on this NEW ADDRESS; bocgenregr@argonet.co.uk GENERAL or all OTHER CLUB MATTERS ideally on existing address; bristol@argonet.co.uk "this will be retained as the www site mail contact address, dispatch " "address of Net News, and membership application echo address. " This approach will help response time to Register enquiries as it will be possible for me to prioritise incoming mail interrogation. "Secondly, and of interst pricipally to those in the UK but also " those resident abroad but with cars stored in the UK. The DVLA (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency) has issued its report on the review of procedures for the registration of rebuilt and radically altered vehicles. I am copying the full information of this Review to the Bulletin Editor and have advised our representative to the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs. After January 1998 there may be some difficulty claiming period Registration Marks back for cars which do not have the original "or ""genuine period components"". " This means in our case cars which DO NOT have for example Bristol "Engines and gearboxes, or other equipment as fitted by originally by " Bristol Cars such as the Chrysler Engine and Torqueflite gearboxes. This change might also affect by definition the 25 year tax exemption for such cars. Advice is being sought. I expect this matter to be mentioned in depth in forthcoming Classic Car magazines. "rgds., Bob " Bob Charlton - Bristol Owners Club - http://www.team.net/www/bristol/ From: Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:38:44 +0100 " Subject: Radiomobile 100 repairs Hi all its been quiet here for a while so I thought I'd see if anyone could answer me a couple of sticky questions. Has anyone had their Car wireless repaired in the UK and if so by whom? Were they reasonable in their charges and was their work satisfactory? Has anyone had the FM conversion card fitted inside their original Radiomobile 100 Valve Radio and does it work well? "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob Charlton "Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:08:17 +0100 " "From: ""Stephen Wall"" " Subject: Re: Radiomobile 100 repairs GAA09499 "There is a shop in Sale, Cheshire called ""Vintage Wireless"" who have a " very good reputation. From memory they charge approx A3160 to refurbish a "radiomobile, with an extra A3100 for FM (this does not alter the " appearance of the set. They can also add an output jack so that portable stereos can be played through them.20 I have not used the service myself but have spoken to the main man there and he is most helpful and knowledgable.20 Unfortunately I do not have their number to hand. While I am typing I am still having my unusual overdrive problem. (1956 405) When cold/warm overdrive work OK (sometimes need to lift of to engage) when the engine is hot (after say 1 hours driving) the overdrive will never engage and occasionally slips out.20 Is this electrical or mechanical? "thanks, " >>> Bob Charlton 27/07/99 16:38:44 >>> Hi all its been quiet here for a while so I thought I'd see if anyone could answer me a couple of sticky questions. Has anyone had their Car wireless repaired in the UK and if so by whom? Were they reasonable in their charges and was their work satisfactory? Has anyone had the FM conversion card fitted inside their original Radiomobile 100 Valve Radio and does it work well? "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 9:36 +0100 (PDT) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Radiomobile 100 repairs Bob Spencer Lane-Jones has had a number of radios repaired and updated by "someone, and they seem to do an excellent job. So, call Spencer. This " advice would also apply to the overdrive problem. "Just for general info I now have the Abbott 404 drophead for sale, and " "also a genuine, one owner Arnolt Bristol with just 22,000 miles " "(404/X/3082), been in Belgium since 1972. Web site will be updated " shortly. "Oh, and my Ace Bristol is now MoT'd and awaiting registration, but it all " works and goes like stink! "regards, " Andrew Blow From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:07:43 +0100 " Subject: Radiomobile 100 repairs Thanks for the advice. I've now since contacted Vintage Wireless who have quoted a check and basic fix at 60.UKP.. Seems very good value but my radio insulation on internal wires is very poor and mostly none existant so doubt that route is in the frame. Completed overhaul and renewal all to orig.specification 200.UKP.. FM Frequency Board added extra 100.UKP.. other alternatives; Power Pack dispensed with and new internals and better speaker fitted inside main box - to quote. Additional Socket added to allow play of CD's or Tapes through unit 25.UKP.. I'm letting them look at the set for comment first and will then decide which route to take but would certainly like to be able to get FM channels if only for the Road reports. Service is exclusive of pick-up and return delivery at 10 UKP each way. Will report progress if it is of interest. 400 F&N Pancake Filters now fitted with requisite spacers machined from type 17 Stainless Steel to clear Float Chamber Bolts on SU Carbs.. New waste fumes Expansion Box and Venturi Tube fitted to Crankcase "appears to work OK., but need to get the carbs better retuned yet. " "Thanks again, " Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:58:53 +1000 " From: Sean McSharry Subject: Re: Radiomobile 100 repairs References: "creator""4D4F5353"" " Re 405 overdrive. I have a 406 and it seems very important not to use modern synthetic oils in the gearbox or the overdrive slips. We use a Penrite that is recommended for the 406 car. Maybe you could try this and see. It might take a while for the modern type oil's effects to wear off after you change. That was my experience. Sean McSharry in Sydney Stephen Wall wrote: "> There is a shop in Sale, Cheshire called ""Vintage Wireless"" who have a " > very good reputation. From memory they charge approx A3160 to refurbish a "> radiomobile, with an extra A3100 for FM (this does not alter the " > appearance of the set. They can also add an output jack so that portable > stereos can be played through them.20 > I have not used the service myself but have spoken to the main man there > and he is most helpful and knowledgable.20 > Unfortunately I do not have their number to hand. > While I am typing I am still having my unusual overdrive problem. (1956 > 405) When cold/warm overdrive work OK (sometimes need to lift of to > engage) when the engine is hot (after say 1 hours driving) the overdrive > will never engage and occasionally slips out.20 > Is this electrical or mechanical? "> thanks, " > sw From: Bob Charlton "Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 00:43:03 +0100 " Subject: Re: Wiring Wiper Switch on 404 References: <3.0.5.32.19990804073531.007cf350@ozemail.com.au> "In article <3.0.5.32.19990804073531.007cf350@ozemail.com.au>, " H D Knox wrote: > Anyone any ideas on the correct wiring for the 404 switch. > It has terminals numbered 1 to 8 the motor has numbers 1 to 5. > The loom maker says use > Switch no 1 blank > 2 power in and 5 on motor > 3 1 on motor > 4 earth > 5 3 on motor > 6 4 on motor > 7 2 on motor > 8 blank ( appears to be linked to 2 on switch) > The above setup shorts out. > Anyone with a better idea? You seem to be emulating a later series car wiring which shows a 7 contact switch the earlier version looks to have 6 contact switch. Dont see an 8 post switch but it may be later version again... Switch Motor Post Post 1 not used and not linked 2 to 5 [ and also link to A4 Fuse unit from Sw 2 ] Green 3 to 1 Green with purple tracer 4 Common Earth at Control Box and local Earth Black 5 to 3 Green with purple tracer 6 to 4 Green with blue tracer 7 to 2 Black with green tracer So the link on 8 to 2 of switch is wrong unless it was/is feeding something else. 2 is for power supply to switch. Check fuse Make sure Switch has no links between posts ditto with motor line in "Points. Did Motor work before? it may be burnt out, or shorting " across armiture. Check Brushes are OK..Not stuck. Motor contacts are shown numbered on plan as in order towards drive shaft 5 1 3 4 2 2 being the closest to the drive shaft output Have you tried running the motor on the bench? Otherwise out of ideas Hugh. "oznet14.ozemail.com.au (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA13144 for ; Wed, " 4 Aug 1999 07:31:22 +1000 (EST) "Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 07:35:31 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: Wiring Wiper Switch on 404 Anyone any ideas on the correct wiring for the 404 switch. It has terminals numbered 1 to 8 the motor has numbers 1 to 5. The loom maker says use Switch no 1 blank 2 power in and 5 on motor 3 1 on motor 4 earth 5 3 on motor 6 4 on motor 7 2 on motor 8 blank ( appears to be linked to 2 on switch) The above setup shorts out. Anyone with a better idea? "(8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA91782 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:00:46 GMT " "Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 07:20:33 +0800 " From: Stuart Subject: Vacuum gauge References: <3.0.5.32.19990804073531.007cf350@ozemail.com.au> Not the conventional solution but here's mine: Maplin (UK electronics supply company) have an electronic vacuum sensor for "Pounds 19.00 or thereabouts (MPX100AP pressure sensor), accuracy appears " better than 1%. All you need then is a battery power supply (quite "adequate), a bit of plumbing and a digital volt meter. More details when I " "get mine going, later in the 405 restoration project..... " Rgds. Stuart Stuart Smith "Fujimi Services Ltd., PO Box 20116 " " Hennessy Road PO, Hong Kong " Ph: +852 2834 3896 Mob: +852 9097 1304 Fax: +852 2834 0463 "e-mail: stuar37@ibm.net fujimi@pacific.net.hk " Aug 1999 19:21:39 +1000 (EST) "Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 19:25:43 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: 404 electrics Solved the wiper problem turned out to be a burnt wire in motor altho the unit looked new! Further problem? I want to reverse the polarity of the system to negative earth as it seems to be necessary to fit an alternator as I want to drive an airconditioner which is plumbed up with huge difficulty to fit unobtrusively in the 404. Questions. Will the starter run backwards? Will the wiper park correctly Will the fuel tank sender and guage be OK Anyone faced this problem as reading the various reports Bristols have in the past been so converted Hope for your input before I get even further out of my depth. From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 12:23:09 +0100 " Subject: Re: 404 Electrics "In article <3.0.5.32.19990806192543.007bf100@ozemail.com.au>, " H D Knox wrote: > Solved the wiper problem turned out to be a burnt wire in motor > altho the unit looked new! Further problem? I want to reverse the > polarity of the system to negative earth as it seems to be > necessary to fit an alternator as I want to drive an airconditioner > which is plumbed up with huge difficulty to fit unobtrusively in > the 404. Questions. > Will the starter run backwards? No it wont. > Will the wiper park correctly "Only if there are no burntout wires in the motor, ;-) " > Will the fuel tank sender and guage be OK Yes. > Anyone faced this problem as reading the various reports Bristols > have in the past been so converted "Have not executed it myself yet, but that is because the one thing on " the 400 which will be bu**ered well and truly is the Electric Clock OH! I forgot... and the valve Radio. Both of these can be altered or replaced by specialists in Bristol and Manchester respectively. Clock costs about 80 UK Pounds and Radio depending what you have done to it...(Rebuild and overhaul) about 200 UK Pounds. My Radiomobile Model 100 is away for investigation just now. I may have it modified to FM channels as well as Long and Medium Wavebands. I'll let you know options and costs when I get it back. It has still to be sent back if it is to be converted to Neg Earth. Your radio being a later model may have a facility to switch from pos Since I always disconnect the battery with a master switch when car is not in use - the disavantages of electrolytic action on body are hardly of any real consequence. "Hope this helps, " From: Webmaster "Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 21:21:17 +0100 " Subject: NetNews#16 It seems no time since the last epistle and yet here we are - already into August. Godfrey's Memorial Service as was intimated in the last NetNews was "well attended, and by now you will also I hope be reading or have " "read Bulletin 116, which shows what a great range of interests that " fine man had. His complete Bristol archive was offered to the BOC and it has gratefully been accepted. I've just got my copies of 'CLASSIC CARS' and 'CLASSIC and SPORTSCAR' for September. However just flicking through 'CLASSIC CARS' I see an illustrated comparison of a 411 s2 with a large Mercedes and a Rolls Royce. With foreword by Andrew Blow on the merits of the 411. A BRIGAND ca.1985 in Good+ condition resprayed/original sold for "11,877 UK Pounds including premium at British Car Auctions sale. " Worse a 1985 BEAUFIGHTER resprayed/original described VG- sold at H&H Auction for 5040 UK Pounds incl. Premium. Clearly a steal at that "price and condition, when in the same issue on page 155 a car of the " "same type and vintage was recommended a good buy at 9,750 UK Pounds " as offered by a Dealer in Manchester. All of the addresses and links I spoke of the last time have been "altered on the website still, at address www.boc.net/bristol/ " I am also grateful to Paul Heaney for sending me some pics of the Silverstone week end past including two of Michael Parr's wonderful "Cooper Bristol, which I have incorporated on the misc.html page of " the website. Thumbnail and full monty as per usual available to view or download at your choice. Thanks Paul I'd never seen the car before. NO prizes for guessing the 'Pic of the Month' either... worth a look by our Zagato and Frazer Nash afficionados too. Well the text is short this time but there is plenty happening. readying 400 for the 100th anniversary rally of Albion. I'd be interested if anyone can tell me where I can obtain a low-profile but accurate Air Meter to balance the carbs on the 400. I've tried Gunsons product and STE neither of which fit the bill the former being too femur and the latter like a Shire Carthorse where a Shetland Pony is needed. Someone must still make a small quality product but there's nothing suitable in the current Snap-On catalogue. Everything done by computers these days I guess./:-\ "cheers for now and happy Bristolling, " Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 08:09:24 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Vacuum gauge References: <3.0.5.32.19990804073531.007cf350@ozemail.com.au> " <3.0.5.32.19990804073531.007cf350@ozemail.com.au> " Bob - > Not the conventional solution but here's mine: > Maplin (UK electronics supply company) have an electronic vacuum sensor for "> Pounds 19.00 or thereabouts (MPX100AP pressure sensor), accuracy appears " > better than 1%. All you need then is a battery power supply (quite "> adequate), a bit of plumbing and a digital volt meter. More details when I " "> get mine going, later in the 405 restoration project..... " "The device I remember from long ago was the ""Uni-Syn"" carb " synchronizer. I wonder if these can be found on E-bay? Much old stuff "shows up, for example, there are always a few Kurta calculators on " auction sale - high prices! Bob From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 20:12:14 +0100 " Subject: Re: Vacuum gauge References: <3.0.5.32.19990804073531.007cf350@ozemail.com.au> <3.0.5.32.19990804073531.007cf350@ozemail.com.au> "In article <37AAFAA4.305D@pacbell.net>, " Bob Schmitt wrote: "> The device I remember from long ago was the ""Uni-Syn"" carb " > synchronizer. I wonder if these can be found on E-bay? Much old "> stuff shows up, for example, there are always a few Kurta " > calculators on auction sale - high prices! When I can pin down my Brother-in-law... we'll get it onto his Crypton Tuner but they no sooner unplug one car than another rolls in. Typical!:-( Bob Charlton Aug 1999 07:58:15 +1000 (EST) "Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 08:03:27 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: Re: 404 Electrics Thanks for the reassurance Bob on the polarity change as regards the clock the 404 series or at least mine was never so fitted! The radio will be the last in if I can squeeze it into the now limited space left after airconditioning. I might have to settle for a suitably disguised modern set. "At 12:23 PM 06-08-99 +0100, you wrote: " ">In article <3.0.5.32.19990806192543.007bf100@ozemail.com.au>, " > H D Knox wrote: >> Solved the wiper problem turned out to be a burnt wire in motor >> altho the unit looked new! Further problem? I want to reverse the >> polarity of the system to negative earth as it seems to be >> necessary to fit an alternator as I want to drive an airconditioner >> which is plumbed up with huge difficulty to fit unobtrusively in >> the 404. Questions. >> Will the starter run backwards? >No it wont. >> Will the wiper park correctly ">Only if there are no burntout wires in the motor, ;-) " >> Will the fuel tank sender and guage be OK >Yes. >> Anyone faced this problem as reading the various reports Bristols >> have in the past been so converted ">Have not executed it myself yet, but that is because the one thing on " >the 400 which will be bu**ered well and truly is the Electric Clock >OH! I forgot... and the valve Radio. >Both of these can be altered or replaced by specialists in Bristol >and Manchester respectively. Clock costs about 80 UK Pounds and Radio >depending what you have done to it...(Rebuild and overhaul) about 200 >UK Pounds. >My Radiomobile Model 100 is away for investigation just now. I may >have it modified to FM channels as well as Long and Medium Wavebands. >I'll let you know options and costs when I get it back. >It has still to be sent back if it is to be converted to Neg Earth. >Your radio being a later model may have a facility to switch from pos >Since I always disconnect the battery with a master switch when car >is not in use - the disavantages of electrolytic action on body are >hardly of any real consequence. ">Hope this helps, " "Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 9:36 +0100 (PDT) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: 404 electrics CC: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com Air conditioning in a 404. What ever next! :-)) Andrew Blow Phone +44 1672 539689 Fax +44 171 919 4479 "(Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK) " "Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:17:44 -0400 " From: Ivor Goodliffe <100666.1250@compuserve.com> Subject: 401 problems Sender: Ivor Goodliffe <100666.1250@compuserve.com> " charsetus-ascii " -------------Forwarded Message----------------- "From: Ivor Goodliffe, " Date: 07/08/99 19:56 RE: 401 problems Please can someone help with the following -why cant I run with the thermostat in. "In the winter,with the thermostat in,within 5 miles temperature is up to " 95-100 degrees.The gauge has a tendency to jump about 10 degrees sometimes. "Without the thermostat it runs too cool, about 65-70 degrees-cold feet. " "No gauge jumping. In the summer no problem, it runs 75-85 with no " thermostat. I have done the following 1 Checked and replaced the thermostat. 2 Tried changing the position of the thermostat in the housing. 3 Recored the radiator. 4 Flushed and bled the system. The problem seems to be that when ever I put in the thermostat I get a partial restriction to the flow. I can see this by taking off the radiator cap. Can anyone offer any solutions. Many thanks Ivor Goodliffe. "1998)) id 4A2567CA.003D9C52 ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:12:57 +1000 " From: kevin.howard@staffsolutions.com.au "Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:12:54 +1000 " Subject: 411 Power steering Does anyone know if the ZF power steering on the 411 can be adjusted ? The steering on my series 5 is extremely light and although it transmits good 'road feel' I would like to make it a little bit heavier. "Thanks, " Kevin Howard From: kevin.howard@staffsolutions.com.au "Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:27:59 +1000 " Subject: Re: 401 problems "Ivor, " I don't know the set up of a 401 but a thermostat will always restrict flow to some extent compared with no thermostat installed. "I once had a Rover P6 with intermittent overheating problems, not quite the " same as your problem but worth mentioning because it turned out to be the water pump which failed under certain conditions. Unfortunately I only found this out after I had given up and sold the car to a colleague almost for scrap money. I'm sure you won't resort to that with your Bristol ! Forgive me if these are obvious things which you have already checked. I presume your temperature gauge is reading correctly ? Have you checked the actual temperature at which the thermostat starts to open and then fully opens and compared this to the correct specs ? You can do this in a large saucepan of water on the stove with the thermostat suspended in the water along with a cooking thermometer while you heat the water. It is usually important that the thermostat is installed in the right direction. If it's in the wrong way it will affect how much time it takes for the thermostat to open (this would vary depending on how the thermostat housing is mounted on different engines) and even when it does open the water will not flow as well as if it were the right way around. "Finally, check that the water pump is working properly at all times. " Unfortunately I am not quite sure how you do this other than replace it with a 'known good' water pump. "Also, what happens if the thermostat is installed in the summer ? " "Regards, " Kevin Howard (411 owner - knows nothing about 401's but have not seen any other suggestions so I thought I would share my thoughts) Ivor Goodliffe <100666.1250@compuserve.com> on 08/10/99 06:17:44 AM Please respond to Forum@boc.net cc: (bcc: Kevin Howard/Melb/StaffSolutions) Subject: 401 problems -------------Forwarded Message----------------- "From: Ivor Goodliffe, " Date: 07/08/99 19:56 RE: 401 problems Please can someone help with the following -why cant I run with the thermostat in. "In the winter,with the thermostat in,within 5 miles temperature is up to " 95-100 degrees.The gauge has a tendency to jump about 10 degrees sometimes. "Without the thermostat it runs too cool, about 65-70 degrees-cold feet. " "No gauge jumping. In the summer no problem, it runs 75-85 with no " thermostat. I have done the following 1 Checked and replaced the thermostat. 2 Tried changing the position of the thermostat in the housing. 3 Recored the radiator. 4 Flushed and bled the system. The problem seems to be that when ever I put in the thermostat I get a partial restriction to the flow. I can see this by taking off the radiator cap. Can anyone offer any solutions. Many thanks Ivor Goodliffe. -- Forum Forum@boc.net Forum "Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:35:09 -0400 " From: Ivor Goodliffe <100666.1250@compuserve.com> Subject: 401 problems Sender: Ivor Goodliffe <100666.1250@compuserve.com> " charsetus-ascii " Kevin Many thanks for your comments. I have checked both thermostats out of the car as you suggest and both open at the same temperature which is correct. I have also checked the temperature gauge away from the car. The workshop manual has an underlined sentence on positioning the thermostat so this is ok. The car behaves in the same way summer and winter with the thermostat in ie temperature gauge on the end stop. It does seem to point to the pump. There is plenty of flow through the "system with no thermostat, but this virtually ceases once the thermostat is " "in, the header tank gets hot showing some opening. I wonder what the flow " comparisons should be. I did look at the pump when I rebuilt the cylinder head and found it well within spec. I will be ok for the next few months then I may have another look at the pump. Regards Ivor Goodliffe "Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 9:36 +0100 (PDT) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: 411 Power steering CC: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com "Yes it can, via allen key in small hole in top of unit. " "Don't know which way does what, but a competent power steering specialist " "could probably tell you, or Spencer Lane-Jones in Warminster. " "regards, " Andrew Blow Phone +44 1672 539689 Fax +44 171 919 4479 "(Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK) " From: Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:47:15 +0100 " Subject: Re: Bristol Planes and Car Museum References: <3.0.5.32.19990819073946.007ab900@ozemail.com.au> "In article <3.0.5.32.19990819073946.007ab900@ozemail.com.au>, " H D Knox wrote: "> According to my copy of the ""Aeroplane"" mag a Bristol Heritage " > Collection is being assembled in Nashville Tennessee. They have 3 > Bristol built A/C including Beaufort and Bolingbroke. It also "> relates--- ""a 5000s/ft workshop is to be built, and engines and " > cars produced by the Bristol company will also be obtained for "> display"". " Yes indeed - we made contact at their instigation some time ago - when they indicated they would also like to include and restore some examples of the Bristol Car. They are an educational Heritage site and give frequent tours to parties from schools illustrating how they are rebuilding and conserving their projects. They are well ahead of BAe in this respect. Also keeping a watching brief on the Freighter Type 170? in Alaska for future retrieval. This is the plane I have included on the history page. it often makes as many as 8 flights a day in the summer so it is still a real work horse that one. I am hoping to get them to do an article for the Bulletin if the Managing Director can spare some time. "Hope this will be of interest, " "rgds., " Bob Charlton "oznet14.ozemail.com.au (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA24694 for ; Thu, " 19 Aug 1999 07:33:30 +1000 (EST) "Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:39:46 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: Bristol Planes and Car Museum "According to my copy of the ""Aeroplane"" mag a Bristol Heritage Collection " is being assembled in Nashville Tennessee. They have 3 Bristol built A/C including Beaufort and Bolingbroke. "It also relates--- ""a 5000s/ft workshop is to be built, and engines and " "cars produced by the Bristol company will also be obtained for display"". " From: Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:11:22 +0100 " Subject: News from Nashville "Since Hugh kindly jogged my memory, I have again been in touch with " Graham Kilsby in Nashville and and have been given a few other mags which could also be running Bristol Aeroplane stories this month or next. I copy the info provided for your interest hereafter; "> There are also magazine articles in Flypast, Aeroplane Monthly and " "> I think Aircraft Illustrated this month, and possibly Air " "> Pictorial, and I know that Peter march has done a large article for " > either Pilot or Aircraft Illustrated for next month. We will also be recieving an article and illustrations for a future edition of our Bulletin. "rgds., Bob " Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Visited the Clubs area of boc.net site yet? Forum - the chatline for Bristol interests. From: Bob Charlton "Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:56:52 +0100 " Subject: News from Nashville follow-up "If its of interest ""Flypast"" and ""Aeroplane"" September editions carry " a few references to Bristol powered airframes but the primary Article is on the Bristol Brabazon in both cases starting on page 46. "In addition ""Aeroplane"" presents a video which includes a short piece " "om the Shuttleworth Bristol Fighter, with the promise of more if you " "buy another longer video, cute sales trick huh!!! " "Whilst Septembers ""Pilot"" gives it most of page 42 - Old Timers. " "Amazing what was done with a few yards of cloth, some sticks and wire. " I see my 400 Fan blade was not an exact copy of the Bristol Fighter "Prop., but reasonably close. " Perhaps its of a later design from Filton? October editions out 1st September... "Hope this helps, " Bob Charlton SERVER1.6) "Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:07:32 -0400 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Chrysler engines Hello all Although I'm sure there's a source for this somewhere I have not exactly figured out which Chrysler engines match which Plymouth or Dodge models (without the Bristol modifications) and in which year. I am particularly "curious about the later, revised 409s which have 318 engines. When faced " with the question at parts stores I have always just said the 1965 Plymouth Sport Fury assuming that the Canadian built engines matched slightly "earlier US 318s. However, I am not so sure any more that that's the correct " assumption to make. If anyone has gone to the trouble of figuring out which engine goes with which model for this and any other year I would be interested to see. Thanks for replies to this and previous posts. Regards Shane "Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:29:04 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Chrysler engines References: <3.0.5.32.19990909120732.009d9cb0@prd1b.serv> Shane - > Although I'm sure there's a source for this somewhere I have not exactly > figured out which Chrysler engines match which Plymouth or Dodge models > (without the Bristol modifications) and in which year. I am particularly "> curious about the later, revised 409s which have 318 engines. When faced " > with the question at parts stores I have always just said the 1965 Plymouth > Sport Fury assuming that the Canadian built engines matched slightly "> earlier US 318s. However, I am not so sure any more that that's the correct " > assumption to make. If anyone has gone to the trouble of figuring out which > engine goes with which model for this and any other year I would be > interested to see. "Sorry, I don't know the exact answers, but there's great lists on the " "Mopar Mailing list, including: " ftp://rohan.sdsu.edu/pub/mml/archive/Engine/engine-id.txt The general FTP directory has a lot of fascinating reading: ftp://rohan.sdsu.edu/pub/mml/archive/Engine/ Now we need someone to make the match-ups! Bob From: Webmaster "Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:17:52 +0100 " Subject: BOC NetNews 17 First a welcome to those of you receiving this epistle for the first time. In explanation it started as a means of relating Web Site changes but somewhere along the way like Topsy - it growed! Misc page has just been modified as has the Events page. The reason the 'misc' page is altered is the news from Canada and picture of a 406 engine powering a dragster at Santa Pod in 1966. What next indeed. Does anyone know any more about this venture? The Events page has been re-jigged pending details of Chairman's Dinner. The Concours it has been reported was well attended and the quality of the exhibits has also improved since last year. So perhaps not too far North after all!:-) It was however reported that alas some members headed West of the M5 instead of West of the M6 - so obviously _they_ did not read or perhaps remember the Concours data or the Events page on the web site. Apparently an 'ad hoc' second gathering took place at a Little Chef Car park. Maybe this means we will have two reports of Concours in Bulletin or Newsletter. Hope they get the Prize winners right! The confusion seems to relate to the erroneous location details given in the latest Bulletin. Why didn't they read the info pack dispatched in plenty of time to get the right directions? No don't answer that. Write to the Bulletin Editor. "Another strange turn up was notification, that the _very first_ " 'Blenheim Car' has been relocated in the Imperial War Museum. I thought that cannot possibly be right... but it is true!!! It has been restored and appears on p.118 of the 'Classic Cars' October edition no.313. What a turn-up! Designed by Ralph Nelson it was an Electric Car Prototype built out of a Blenheim Mk1 Fuselage and Cockpit extracted from a body purchased from the Ministry of Aircraft Production in 1945. It took to the road in the late forties and ran until the late fifties when like many of its compatriots - its Batteries burnt out and seriously damaged the hull. It was then left derelict for many years - but has now been meticulously refurbished by the Aircraft Restoration Company (ARC) "based at the Imperial War Museum, Duxford, where it is now to be seen " on Public display. Worthy of another Bulletin article I would say. Anyone reading this live near Duxford? Elsewhere in the same volume there is a 405 illustrating a Question/Answer where to obtain Steering Bellows. The answer given is Spencer Lane-Jones establimenti in Wiltshire. How these things turn up like Tony Blair/3 Jag Prescot's blasted buses! Some time ago I wrote to Lumenition to ask if they did a kit "for the DX6A Distributor fitted to my Positive earth 400, because " there was no mention of the Distributor type in the Holden Catalogue "listing. This same week I received the reply ""we don't do one but " "Spencer Lane-Jones does!"" " Apparently it requires a new baseplate to be fabricated and is set up with the use of a Clear plastic? Distributor cover which allows his 'Sparks'(Electrician to the rest of you;) to do a visual check on "possible pre-ignition in the settings, because in some states of wide " advance the spark can shift phase to the next cylinder... causing an almighty big ouch! bang! splat! and thus the settings need to be made very precisely to match the Balance weights. Spencer tells me a Lumenition 'PMA-50' kit is needed and the total cost including parts and labour is about 200 UK Pounds. Now I've got the 'Pancakes' fitted over the SU's and the Block separately vented and more effectively - after the fashion of the "404-406, that seems the next logical step. The original Distributor " "Baseplate, and a set of Contacts, Condenser and Rotor Arm are of " course kept in the Tool-kit as a straight swop if the electronics fail... Belt and Braces as usual!;-) Turning to the 'Classic and Sportscar' October edition p.174 gives the start to the report of the C&S Staff outing writ by Mick Walsh - also driving his Bristol engined Frazer Nash Rep. Later in the same issue offered for sale. I finally gave up trying to get the 400 Radiomobile Radio to work - the old valve driven 90volt Transformer/Vibrator pack? is obviously stuck in neutral (the most common fault with the beast I am told) and alas when that happens no amount of coaxing with a rubber mallet will "set it going. So its now away to a specialist located in Sale, " "Manchester, by the name of the 'Vintage Wireless Company'. " The preliminary report was that despite it being in good condition for its age (only 50 years guv.) It needs a complete overhaul. So "I've opted to have the output boosted, a much better speaker " installed and FM channels added at the same time. A report will follow in due course. The cost? Don't ask but for reference. 175 UK Pounds for the basic rebuild - 100 Pounds for the FM Channels and 20 Pounds carriage. Plus the dreaded VAT @ 17.5%. How I hate that leech of a Tax! It had better work first time when it arrives back. /:-\ There is another specialist in Bristol offering much the same services and prices are equable. Carriage of course would be less to those in the South. Its possible to buy a restored set but its not the same as having the original unit - or is it outer case?;-) Prices range from about 300 to 500 UK Pounds. "cheers, Bob " Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Forum - is boc.net chatline why not join in? Visited the Club area yet? Many services detailed there. PDT "Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:52:52 -0700 (PDT) " From: Shane de "Thanks Bob, these look useful, I will try to make sense of them and " match them. If I think it's right I will post the list. Shane "Sorry, I don't know the exact answers, but there's great lists on the " "Mopar Mailing list, including: " ftp://rohan.sdsu.edu/pub/mml/archive/Engine/engine-id.txt The general FTP directory has a lot of fascinating reading: ftp://rohan.sdsu.edu/pub/mml/archive/Engine/ Now we need someone to make the match-ups! Bob Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com "Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:18:30 +0100 " From: Webmaster Subject: NetNews18 Another Milestone the London Motor Show has once again burst on the scene with the usual razamataz and the unexpected addition of the Consumers Association at last bearding the dragons in their own forecourt - and about time too! So it seemed a prudent move to pop into 'W H Smiths' (a national Bookstore and oft Main Newsagent in the UK.). First to see what coverage was being given so far sadly so little to date by the TV companies. It was with a surprise (pleasing I admit) to see that of the two "Major Mags covering the Spectacle - The ""Auto Express"" and ""The " "Autocar"" " They both mention the Blenheim 3 - .... erm.... WHAT? "Yes the Blenheim 3 - and ""The Autocar"" on p.17, gives both a picture " and text explanation in a half page insert describing the development. Its more comfortable the seats are more accommodating it has a new nose and fancy wheels much we are told has changed beneath "the alloy skin amounting to thousands of tweaks and changes, " including stiffer anti roll bars. "Finally the price... sadly up once more - to a stated 133,950 UK " Pounds for the privilege of this luxurious performer. Esoteric to most of us true but nice to see the company continuing to develop into the Millennium when we are assured we will see yet more development. There is but light coverage of the Marque in the latest editions of """Classic Cars"" and ""Classic and Sportscar"" but expect CC on the 4th " "December to change like a Chameleon back into ""Thoroughbred and " "Classic Cars"" as it has long since steadfastly remained throughout " the last decade on rest of the planet. "Having noted the changes proposed in the Blenheim Model spec., and " engendered in the prototype illustrated I decided to swing by the Company Website http://www.bristolcars.co.uk/index2.html to see what if anything had changed. Well it has improved but sadly it still deals with the Blenheim 2 announcing; BRISTOL BLENHEIM 2 PRICE EFFECTIVE FROM 1 AUGUST 1998 Basic Price: VAT @ 17.5% " 106,000 UKP 18,550 UKP Total a mere 124,550 UK " Pounds...eek! "Fortunately this also includes collection and number plates charges, " only the dreaded Road Fund Tax to add to payments...phew! "The Company _""resevers""_ (their exact word not mine...) the right to " change the price or specifications without notice and the price ruling at date of delivery will apply. I see things are just as ever - normal! Alternatives cited are : " Rolls Royce Seraph 155,000 " " Bentley Arnage 145,000 " " Bentley Continental T 233,000 " " Aston V8 149,000 " " Ferrari (4 Seater) 173,589 " As you can see from the race order run Bentley Continental T is way out in front with Ferrari second though after a Stewards Enquiry they are disqualified for having seats which are too narrow!!! ...Ouch!!! ...and the German test driver was heard to say summat like cobblers!;-() Some of you wrote and expressed continued interest in the Radiomobile 100 saga part of the continuing restoration of my Type 400. Well at the end of September on schedule and as promised I received the unit back. But first lets step back a little... Sadly on investigation of the original internals... they were how shall I put it? ...suffering the years of unuse rather than misuse... "For the original and only previous owner told me he never used it, " and alas it was barely working when I got it out of the car some 20 odd years ago. Suffice it to say the Vibrator Pack was officially reported stuck solid and the rubber insulation on all of the wiring in both the Vibrator Pack and the Radio were none existent... having long since crumbled into latex? dust. "The saving grace it was reported was that the wire looped controls, " buttons and springs and other visual control mechanisms had survived in excellent order and the real decision was left - whether to have the units totally restored into pristine original Valve operated "specification, and then add an FM card at a quoted 100 UK Pounds " extra or to re-use the case and controls and have the rest of the radio completely rebuilt to modern specification within the capacious original case. It was not a hard decision. I opted to dispense with the old and defunct Vibrator pack ...instructing it be returned (should any future owner wish to execute the rather precious Valve rebuild option) which it duly was. The New specification I decided to adopt once offered consists of a custom built modern Radio designed to reasonably high specifications and designed to re-use the case and all of the existing buttons. As a joke perhaps - it even includes a dummy warm up delay... before the front panel gradually lights up to its original cheery rosy red and Radio breaks into life. Good enough to fool anyone who is not told. ;-) The unit naturally draws much less current being fused by a 5 amp fuse now instead of a 10 amp and current consumption is also way down on the combined Valve driven units of yesteryear. The SP - Speech and MU - Music buttons both work as they ought... and "LW - Long Waveband button, now simply beams in the FM or modern high " Frequency Modulated waveband. The improved performance of the components include hefty choking "throughout the circuitry, which simply means much less " "interference... no crackles, bangs, hums, buzzes or squawks, and the " new slightly larger and much more modern Loudspeaker really gives little distortion at all... even at full power. The audio quality whilst still not of course in Stereo - is simply "breathtaking, making the Classical Channel now a joy to hear as I " drive along the byways. "The exercise cost 346 UK Pounds and a few pence including 17.5% VAT., " and collection and delivery door to door arranged by the Vintage "Wireless Company in Sale, Cheshire. I cannot fault their work and " their original quotation was confirmed as the final cost. See their advert in Classic Cars etc. Specialist Services section. To buy a wholly rebuilt Radiomobile 100 Valve Radio unit is possible... and would be much the same as the overhaul costs and would depend on the final presentation. eg.whether a FM board was added to the specification. Thus figures of between 350 and 500 UK Pounds are quoted. Part exchange may also be negotiated where your existing unit is wholly recoverable. The refitting exercise of course was much easier even than the removal because the original Vibrator Pack is not needed to be separately installed on top of the Radio. As a bonus... no additional suppression was required on Windscreen Wiper motor or Ignition circuits and in theory a single unscreened lead can actually be used to connect via a very original looking but brand new black in-line Fuse Holder with screw tightened Brass Cable Fasteners... from that its route is simply through the original bulkhead grommit and onto the appropriate battery terminal. A suitable crimp tag was provided. The only other item required is of course a correctly earthed Aerial. I'd opted to keep the unit Positive Earthed - because I like to keep the original Clock working too. Any later modifications will I'm assured require but a minor alteration to be made inside the Radio to convert it to Negative Earthed use. A bridge to cross when/or if the time comes. ;)) Is this enough? I certainly hope so... but its also very nice to be able to listen to the radio whilst doing the mundane cleaning and polishing of paint and chrome. :-)) Please note there have been some important changes to the Club Information page in respect of Membership Fees. This affects all part "year and end of year renewals, whether in the EEC postal zone or " outside of it. The news of hoped Credit Card payment facilities is still under review and an announcement will be made when and if possible... but not yet. There are many things to be considered not least making all payment transactions properly secure. Guess that's it for now. Can see I'll need to draft a new Blenheim page once more information is forthcoming. Meanwhile I'll change the last stated prices... "rgds., " Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Forum - is boc.net chatline why not join in? Visited the Club area yet? Many services detailed there. "Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:06:04 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: New Bristol For those of you not on the NetNews circulation list... a new bristol has been announced for the Millennium. It is currently called the Bristol 'FIGHTER' project and will be the Company's first 2 seater for 45 years and the first with an optional Manual transmission for much the same length of time. Estimated Top Speed of over 200 Miles Per Hour/ 321 Kilometers Per Hour is achieved with a neutral Aerodynamic shape and an 8 litre power pack which is an enhancement of an existing V-10 all Aluminium engine package. 26 gal Fuel tank with Fuel cell is it is claimed capable of providing cruising set at 100 Miles Per Hour for 4 hours. Price is not available but we will advise any further news through the usual channels. This and more data was released to the Club and the Motoring Press on 10th November. Hope this is of interest. This facility seems to have been quiet for a while so I thought I'd give it a stir up. "rgds., " Bob Bob Charlton "Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 13:06:41 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: NN19 the 'Millenium Special' FAA26533 INFORMATION HEAD OFFICE PRESS OFFICE FROM BRISTOL CARS 368/370 KENSINGTON HIGH STREET LONDON W14 8NL MOTOR CAR MANUFACTURERS Direct press line 0171-603 0366 Direct FAX 0171-371 1157 Website www.bristolcars.co.uk For release immediate 10-Nov-99 Bristol Project FIGHTER Although it is some 45 years since Bristol last made a 2-seater "production car, the memories of those compact elegant coupés are " still cherished by owners and enthusiasts alike. To celebrate the year 2000. Bristol is embarking again on a 2-seater project with the new 'FIGHTER'. Although it is doubtless the car's exceptional performance that will make headlines it is in reality the car's balance of virtues that set it apart from any possible rival. It will be the first Bristol in 40 years to offer the delights of a Manual transmission and it will also be the world's first production vehicle capable of over 200 mph that is available with an automatic gearbox. Its 8 litre V-10 Chrysler based Aluminium engine is modified as it is normal Bristol practice to give even greater power and smoothness. It will deliver colossal acceleration and speed - yet potter around town with calm docility in traffic. "An entirely new, lightweight body/chassis structure combines with " "racing style suspension, steering and brakes to give a level of " handling agility and driver involvement that is unmatched. Despite "this, the practical benefits of excellent ground clearance, good load " "carrying capability and a supple, quiet ride have not been forgotten. " Whereas most fast cars have today become tiresomely bulky "particularly in width, Bristol's legendary packaging expertise " "ensures that the 'Fighter' is only 4.4 metres long, 1.8m wide and " weighs in at a trim 1400 kg. The dramatic gull wing doors have a practical purpose making entry and exit much easier especially for the less athletic and removing forever the problem of conventional "sports car doors fouling high kerbs. Inside, there is the ultimate in " coachbuilt luxury with a style that is quintessentially Bristol yet blends modern and traditional elements with effortless style. Seating is designed to suit a particularly wide range of occupant sizes while outward driving visibility (normally ignored on most fast cars) is exemplary and will make the 'Fighter' a joy to drive in all conditions. An exceptional turning circle and low speed power assistance make parking painless. To encourage you to take this car on long Continental trips there is even a spacious boot that is larger than many saloons. Whether driving to dinner or stretching the car's abilities on a private race "track, the 'Fighter' can charm and entertain in equal measure. " "How?, you might well ask, can one car successfully reconcile so many " qualities that are thought to be mutually exclusive? Long term owners will recognize this ability as deriving from the Bristol design philosophy. The company has never been constrained either by custom "or its customers from embracing new or unorthodox solutions. Thus, " the 'Fighter' is probably the only car to be designed in recent years where form truly does follow function. Car design normally starts "with some styling sketches, these days almost inevitably either " "'retro', or flashy 'techno' and the engineers then have to work " within these parameters. Bristols are instead designed solely by engineers who started with the burning ambition to create a real driver's car providing the sort of feedback and involvement that most of today's cars have lost. It is entirely free of over-complex systems and intrusive electronics that are commonly used as a substitute for the balance and control that derive from painstaking basic engineering. It was considered vital that the new car should be as compact as possible with a front mid engine design and a slight rearward weight distribution that marks the very best rear wheel drive cars. At the commencement of the project it was agreed that aerodynamic efficiency and stability were of overriding importance for a car that can cruise at speeds well above the take off velocity of a fully loaded 747 airliner. As a result the shape that has currently been created addresses solely the needs of packaging and aerodynamics. Initial evaluations indicate that even with the compromises that may become necessary for the finished production car the drag factor will "be approximately 0.27, a new low for a car with such a vast " performance envelope. Although our design department enjoys considerable experience with today's high down force racing cars this concept was considered and rejected. The reason is that down force does nothing to improve adhesion in the range of speeds where drivers "experience a shortage of grip, say up to 70 mph yet a high down force " car pays a significant drag penalty every moment it is driven. Worse "still, at very high speeds where down force does come into play its " effect is highly variable with wind direction so that a cornering speed that is safe for a particular bend on a particular day may become unsafe if the wind direction changes. Clearly what is needed for the ultimate road car is not down force but instead the ultimate "in aerodynamic stability, low drag and a very pure suspension design " giving excellent mechanical grip. Accordingly the 'Fighter' has been designed with mathematically calculated aerodynamic exterior panels so that air passes easily under its smooth belly and balances the flow over the top of the car to ensure neutral lift characteristics. It should be noted that the scale model showcased today is an engineering concept and is being used to confirm packaging and aerodynamic requirements. Only when the model meets with the engineers' final approval will the styling department start work on finalizing a shape that will be as visually exciting and elegant as it is efficient. For those who may question why Bristol Cars should be revealing the existence of the 'Fighter' at this early stage or indeed choose to say anything about their future plans the answer is simple. We neither wish to have to deny rumours of the new car's existence or "have our test programmes hampered by the need for secrecy, night-time " testing or the sort of prototype disguises that mean that much of the data collected is meaningless or tainted. By making an announcement now we are free to ensure that the car performs to our ideals not just on a test track but on the road where "it really matters. As of today's date, the mechanical design is " frozen and components are now being sourced. A number of orders for the car are already in hand and as initial production will be limited "priority will, naturally, be given to existing Bristol customers. " - ENDS - For further information please contact: Tony Crook or Anne Marie Cadars on INTERIM SPECIFICATION BRISTOL 'FIGHTER' CONCEPT CHASSIS.... "Stiff, lightweight Aluminium chassis and superstructure " BODY.... 2 seater with gull wing type doors for easy access. Large conventional boot. Highly aerodynamic hand formed Aluminium exterior "panels providing exceptional natural high speed stability, neutral " lift and low drag. Carbon fibre door and boot panels. ENGINE.... Chrysler 8-litre V-10 with Aluminium block and cylinder heads. Bristol "enhancements to improve smoothness, response and power. " FUEL SYSTEM.... "Aluminium fuel tank with fuel cell, 26 gallon capacity. 4 hour range " at 100 mph cruise. TRANSMISSION.... Front mounted 5-speed manual or 4-speed automatic gearbox. WEIGHT.... "1400 kg. Distributed 48% front, 52% rear. " SUSPENSION.... Front and rear independent via double wishbones with inboard "spring/damper units, progressive rising wheel rates, low roll centre, " "high wheel/damper ratio, anti-roll bar. " STEERING.... "Direct acting rack and pinion with power 'assist', for low speed " manoeuvring. BRAKES.... Front 355 mm. ventilated discs Rear 330 mm. ventilated discs. DIMENSIONS.... Length 4.4 m. Width 1.8 m. Height 1.32 m. Oh! how I wish..... Website Pages NEWS and the image page PICTURE OF THE MONTH have been changed in line with this transmission. goto /service.html page to access Picture of the Month. ADVICE.... To view the Bristol 'Fighter' make sure you are not loading the previous recorded page image from your cache. In some instances pressing either reload or refresh whilst on-line should acheive this but every system has its own requirements. The page has been tested and it is working. No doubt there will be more on this in future Bulletins. BTW Mike Parr's Targa Florio is featured in the December 1999 TandCC.. p.80-84 with other cars for you FN followers. "all for now cheers, " Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Visited the Clubs area of boc.net site yet? Forum - the chatline for Bristol interests. "Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:43:49 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: New Bristol & Southern California News References: <4961df4b85charlton@argonet.co.uk> PAA00723 Bob - > This facility seems to have been quiet for a while so I thought I'd > give it a stir up. "> rgds., " Right! Thanks for the articles. Not much news on the local Frazer Nash "scene, except the web site has new pictures and some early competition " history. Also at the recent vintage car races on Corobado Island I "finally got to meet another Frazer Nash owner who lives near San Diego, " "John Kerridge, long separated from the UK. He owns a ex-Brooklands " racer chain-drive '26 FN. The main address of the FN site has shifted a bit: http://home.pacbell.net/bsbrbank/frazernash.htm "and part of it is located on another web location, but that's just tech " backstage stuff. Nice to hear about the Bristol use of the Viper engine. It's available "in the US as a ""crate"" engine direct from Mopar - I suppose the price is " "listed somewhere, but I don't have the courage to check! In my garage " "dreams, I'm wondering if it would drop in my '66 Imperial LeBaron and " how long it would take for the cost to be amortized by (theoretically) "better gas mileage. Imperial news (cars, that is) is at: " http://teamchicago.com/imperial/imperial.htm And that's what we do for car fun while waiting for Bristol products to come back to life... Bob of Burbank Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man "www.sainthood.com, "Where Goodness is Rewarded" " " 6-10-1998)) id 4A25682B.007E35E9 ; Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:58:33 +1000 " "Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:58:14 +1000 " From: kevin.howard@staffsolutions.com.au Subject: Q. re Avon safety wheels "Does anyone know if the alloy Avon safety wheels, introduced as an option " "for the 411 series 5, require special tyres " Thanks in advance. Kevin Howard "Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 04:01 +0000 (PST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Q. re Avon safety wheels Cc: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com "No, but does need a very patient tyre fitter I gather, to seat " the safety band in the rim well while fitting the tyre. "Andrew Blow, UK " www.racecar.co.uk/andrewblow Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com "Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 14:46:01 -0500 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: recommended tyres I'm interested to know whether anyone has experimented successfully in fitting non-standard wheels and radial tyres to Bristol 407/408/409. I have read the few paragraphs on the topic from the Setright book with regard to the 409 but wondered if this has been recreated more recently with positive results. Any details of tyre/wheel size/type used would be great. regards Shane de Burca "Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 00:02:09 +1200 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: 411 Series 5 Carby Happy new year to all at BOC ! Does anyone know what the correct Carter model number is for the Carter Thermoquad carby originally fitted to the 411 Series 5 ? "Also, does anyone who has a 411 with the correct carb regularly suffer (petrol) flooding " when starting the engine from cold. "Thanks in advance, " Kevin Howard --- Move to a better address --- + today freemail + http://www.today.com.au "Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:49:25 +1100 " From: H D Knox Subject: Brakes on the 404 Does anyone have a clue on improving the wet weather braking performance of my newly rebuilt 404 The car has early discs on the front and usual Bristol drums on back all boosted by a period Lockheed unit. Very good in dry conditions but in the wet the rear brakes tend to lock up before the fronts thereby allowing handbrake turns without the handbrake! Otherwise the car is a dream to drive super performance & a lot nippier than my previous 403 Hugh "Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 00:16:51 +0000 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: Brakes on the 404 Importance: Normal "As a motorcyclist, I'd suggest (a) using non-original brake pads! - some " modern brake pads as supplied for motorcycle use have been specially designed to counteract this problem; (b) you could consider drilling the "discs, as a lot of motorcycles have 'em; and (c) if you can get a " "wind-and-rain-tunnel, see whether you can put a bit of rubber strip " somewhere to deflect the rainwater. Just some idle thoughts from a motorcycling non-mechanic... "Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:15:17 +1100 " From: julian caples Subject: Re: Brakes on the 404 References: <3.0.5.32.20000107174925.007a72e0@ozemail.com.au> Hugh had this problem when converting mini's to cooper s style disc brakes and have had success with three methods 1 use rear pads with less friction (maybe all you need depending on how much "earlier than the fronts the back locks up, and on how much weight transfer there " is to the front under heavy braking) "2 smaller rear cylinders (or sleeve them down and get matching pistons made), " "this is the most elegant solution, but you need to know how small to go - i'm " told it is possible to calculate this but probably needs a nobel prize sized "brain - in practice it seems to be done by trial and error), bristol cars should " "know and might tell you or even provide the bits!!, or you could just try the " rear cyls off a 400 (i think they are smaller in diameter) 3 use a variable proportioning valve setup. these thingies are available from most rally/motorsport shops and allow you to adjust the hydraulic fluid split front-rear in the system(or wheel to wheel in the most complex systems) this is "easy to retrofit, fully adjustable and highly reliable, but not necessarily " entirely kosher for road use under australian road regs (but this probably won't be a problem on a 404) "i've had success with all three methods on mini's, no experience on bristols " "though, the 403 is drums all round, the 412 discs " regards and happy new year julian > Does anyone have a clue on improving the wet weather braking performance of > my newly rebuilt 404 > The car has early discs on the front and usual Bristol drums on back all > boosted by a period > Lockheed unit. > Very good in dry conditions but in the wet the rear brakes tend to lock up > before the fronts > thereby allowing handbrake turns without the handbrake! > Otherwise the car is a dream to drive super performance & a lot nippier > than my previous 403 > Hugh "Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 16:13:43 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Napier Green? References: <3.0.5.32.20000107174925.007a72e0@ozemail.com.au> Hi to all - I got the following message on my Frazer Nash web site - it's a good "question, please also copy me if you reply directly to Mr. Howard. " Thanks! Bob > Subject: Napier green "> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 17:06:19 -0500 " > From: Todd & Merry Jane Hayward "Hello, " "I enjoyed your website dedicated to Frazer-Nash. What led me to it, was " a wesearch for info on the paint color Napier Green. I'm trying to track down a code or paint chip for use in the restoration of an Indian Scout "motorcycle. If you have any info, it would be most welcome! " "Thanks, " Todd Hayward Thanks Bob... and for general information I have placed the header content in separate quotation format to avoid the servers trying to descramble half of the message as a second message rgds. Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:39 +0000 (PST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Brakes on the 404 Cc: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com What you need is a pressure limiting valve in the brake line to the back brakes. Originally Bristols fitted smaller wheel cylinders to the rear "brakes when fitting front disks, but these smaller cylinders (1&1/4 inch " I think) are now very hard to find. For further info call Spencer Lane-Jones as he has tackled this problem on many occasions. 0044 1985 847133. Congratulations on getting this car back on the road. How about another project..... "best regards, " Andrew Blow Phone +44 1672 539689 Fax +44 171 919 4479 "(Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK) " "Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:41:03 +0000 " From: Mr Adrian Berry Subject: Re: Bristol V8 engines and LRP... Sender: alberry@compuserve.com References: <01BF5B7C.46303520.Ian.Beeby@questus.co.uk> "I believe that common received wisdom is that VSR (valve seat recession), " "which is the main problem associated with running unleaded petrol, only " tends to show itself above 3000 rpm with 3500 rpm and higher being the danger areas. There are many tales to show how mode of driving differs "between individuals using the same car, and how differing driving " environments also effect the rate of VSR. This is why the so called 'lead memory effect' can be so different for the same engine type in different instances. Only the owner knows how the car was driven in the past and how it will be driven in the future. If the past history is unknown then assume "the worst and take the appropriate precautions by using either:- LRP, " "unleaded petrol with an additive, or having hardened valve seats fitted to " the heads. "If using an additive, as the FBHVC approved products are based on differing " "chemicals, it is not recommended to mix differing additives. This also " applies to mixing unleaded + additive and LRP. Just make sure you are aware of the base chemical and stick to it. In the last event contact Bristol Cars quoting the engine number and ask them to confirm the hardness of the valve seats when the unit was manufactured (this assumes that no one has monkeyed with the engine in the intervening years. This will tell you whether VSR is likely. As well as VSR you should consider the fact that leaded petrol in the UK was 98 octane and unleaded is now 95 octane. This means that the timing may have to be altered and this might lead to increased fuel consumption and possibly overheating. If this is a problem then you will want to go with unleaded and an additive with an octane boost and attempt to retain the old ignition settings. Hope that this helps. (at least you are not in the position of some older "engines which due to their design cannot have valve seats inserted at all, " and so must make do with whatever is available) Adrian Berry "Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:06:21 +0000 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: Bristol V8 engines and LRP... Organization: Questus Limited "Folks, " What is the considered opinion regarding LRP and earlier V8 engined Bristols? I have recently purchased a 409 which has not been converted to support unleaded fuel but have received a range of 'suggestions' regarding what fuel combination to use: "1/ Just use LRP - it should be fine. " "2/ Use Unleaded with the FBHVC approved additive with octane booster. " "3/ Get the heads changed quick smart! " The first two remarks came along with the same caveat - the Bristol gearing is such that the engine seldom gets really stressed so valve seat recession "is not as big an issue when compared with smaller, more highly stressed " "engines. However, the last piece of advice came with the opposite caveat " that valve seat recession takes place over a wide range of loads. I have looked at some documentation from the Internet and my view is that either LRP will be good enough or I'll have to use the unleaded+octane boosting additive. I am keen to avoid having the heads replaced any ear "lier than necessary. However, there was an article in Saturday's Telegraph " suggesting that Tetra-Ethyl Lead would be available as an additive in due course (and presumably that solves all of our problems except the one of conscience?). I'd be most grateful for input from others - particularly those who are currently running on LRP or who have decided to go for the additive approach. Best Regards Ian -- Ian Beeby Managing Consultant Questus Limited "Fax: +44 1483 400909 " "E-mail: Ian.Beeby@questus.co.uk " "Web: http://www.questus.co.uk " "Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:32:15 +0000 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: RE: Bristol V8 engines and LRP... Organization: Questus Limited "Adrian, " Many thanks for your reply. I guess that my concern is that the LRP route is supposed to provide limited protection whereas the UL+Additive may "provide greater protection, albeit using a different chemistry. " "Your points about driving style are duly noted. Further, another " correspondent from California pointed out that unleaded has not meant the end of the world as they know it. In fact their transition took place "around 30 years before ours when, perhaps, it could be argued that less " sophisticated techniques were available to analyse the problems. I understand the point about choosing a solution and sticking to it. I'd like to understand what the majority of others are doing before I make my choice. "If I believe the information available on the internet, then I would use UL " plus the octane boosting FBHVC approved additive (which is managanese "based, I believe). However, since the cost of LRP can be mush lower than " "the old 4 star (as little as 4p/litre more than regular unleaded), there is " also price to consider - why spend money if it is not really necessary. I understand that LRP is rated at 97 octane vs 98 octane for the old 4 star. I doubt that the difference would be noticeable and any adjustment would be minor so it is not the octane difference that should really concern me. Point taken about writing to Bristol - I'll certainly do that. Cheers Ian -- Ian Beeby Managing Consultant Questus Limited "Fax: +44 1483 400909 " "E-mail: Ian.Beeby@questus.co.uk " "Web: http://www.questus.co.uk " "On 11 January 2000 10:41, Mr Adrian Berry [SMTP:alberry@compuserve.com] " wrote: "> I believe that common received wisdom is that VSR (valve seat recession), " "Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:53:57 +1300 " From: Chris Browne Subject: RE: Bristol V8 engines and LRP... I sent the following gloomy message to the list last April. It would seem from the current discussion to be topical still so I repeat it (with apologies to those who have seen most of it before): New Zealand has been through removal of leaded petrol in recent years. Our experience (apparently contrary to reports of what happened in USA) was not at all positive although much of the problem seems to have been the abysmal quality of the allegedly premium unleaded fuel which replaced leaded super here. The result was a lot of destroyed engines (from pre-ignition) with the petrol suppliers denying responsibility and blaming the owners for poor maintenance. The worst affected were higher performance engines from the 1960s and 1970s which ran high compressions without modern engine management systems. My "1975 BMW 3.0CS still will not run properly on straight premium unleaded, " "even with a fuel cataylst, and requires a healthy slug of (illegal) 100+ " octane racing fuel (which contains lead as it happens) to run acceptably and quietly. Tacit official acknowledgement of the problem meant that jet boats (which run high performance car engines) and aircraft were granted a dispensation from the lead ban on safety grounds. Classic car owners were not so well organised and no exemptions were given for the large fleet of older vehicles. The good news is that most Bristol engines in stock form should not suffer from this problem. The 2 litre was designed to run on very low octane petrol. I imagine that the early V8s would be the most at risk. My 400ci V8 (411 series 4) is happy on our fuel. Valve seat recession (which gained all the publicity) turned out to be far "less of a problem in comparison, possibly because the real problem above " was not expected and tended to show up pretty quickly and dramatically. The sum of everything that I have read about VSR and additives is not encouraging. It seems to be reasonably well established that none of the additives offers the same protection as leaded fuel. Fuel catylsts "(Fuelstar, Carbonflo etc) have been damned as snake oil in scientific tests " but every skilled motor engineer that I have come across swears by them and reports invariable success with poor running engines from their use. Certainly they have made all of my cars run far better on unleaded fuel than otherwise (even cars designed to run on unleaded). This is not a subtle effect but quite noticeable from behind the wheel. Whether fuel "catalyst claims about protection from VSR have substance, no one knows. The " state of knowledge about preventing VSR seems no better now than it was "when New Zealand dumped unleaded. Be under no illusions, banning unleaded " caused serious problems with many of our older vehicles here and none of "the additives are as good as lead at protecting engines. If I had a choice, " I would not hesitate to fit hardened seats "I have read that lead ""memory"" for VSR protection is good for several " "thousand miles (depending, as some have said, on use) but may be wiped out " by the use of additives. Some care is warranted here. Officially non-turbocharged Bristols since and including the 411 series 5 "(""J"" series 400 ci) have engines with valve seats designed to run without " lead. Every other Bristol engine theoretically needs hardened seats. "To repeat my major theme, VSR got all the attention here when unleaded " petrol was removed but turned out not to be the major problem. Serious engine damage can result from even inaudible pre-ignition and happened in "numerous cases. As well as losing lead, I understand that the octane rating " of English market premium petrol may be falling from 98 to 95. If this is "so, many older vehicle owners have good cause to be worried about the " future health of their engines apart fom VSR issues. Chris Browne & Felicity Crowe "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@iprolink.co.nz "Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:11:48 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Bristol V8 engines and LRP "Further to my last e-mail on the above, I can add the following: " Virtually all lead replacement petrol (LRP) sold in the UK has a potassium base. Most of the oil companies do have a caveat that the level of potassium is fine for 'every day motoring' but will not offer total protection in circumstances where 'vehicles are used for towing or prolonged high speed motorway driving'. In view of this LRP should be viewed specifically in line with the usage of the car as outlined in the earlier e-mail. Also there is still no British Standard for LRP and so each manufacturer's product may well differ from the competition. If in view of the above you feel that LRP might not offer your car "the protection it requires, then unleaded and an additive might be " the answer. The FHBVC have endorsed the following additives: Superblend Zero Lead 2000 (Potassium based) Nitrox 4star lead treatment (Potassium based) Millers VSP -Plus (Manganese based) Red Line Lead Substitute (Sodium based) Valvemaster (Phosphorous based) As well as the above there are 2 additional additives which include an octane boost as well which are FHBVC endorsed: Nitrox 4star lead substitute and Octane improver (Manganese based) Valvemaster plus (Phosphorous based) You pays yer money and takes yer choice. On the subject of comments from the USA about not having had leaded "petrol (gasoline) for years and it not being a problem, I would only " counsel caution bearing in mind the average size of engine in the "states as compared with the UK, and also the overall speed limit in " place in the states (55 as compared with 70 in the UK). Their engines are far less stressed than ours. "So there it is - LRP, or LRP with a reduced dosage of potassium based " "additive, or unleaded with any of the above additives, or unleaded " "with octane boosted additive, or just straight unleaded. Everybody " will have their favourite solution. Regards Adrian "Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:51:32 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Bristol V8 engines and LRP References: <497fdf434cPostmaster@boc.net> Hi all Bristol fans - > On the subject of comments from the USA about not having had leaded "> petrol (gasoline) for years and it not being a problem, I would only " > counsel caution bearing in mind the average size of engine in the "> states as compared with the UK, and also the overall speed limit in " > place in the states (55 as compared with 70 in the UK). Their > engines are far less stressed than ours. "As an update, the federally-mandated 55 mph speed limit was rescinded " 3-5 years ago and 70 is the most common freeway speed limit except in "heavily metropolitan areas, where it's 65. However, good luck at trying " to drive 65 or 70 anywhere! I almost always stay in the slow lane at "the legal limit, but frequently get pushed along there. 70+ is common " "everywhere and not especially safe, in my humble opinion. Observed " speeds in country/rural areas are 80+. "Engines are probably less stressed here than in Europe, but still " significantly smaller than 5 or 10 years ago. It would be interesting "to track average engine sizes, axle ratios, etc over the years. " "It's surprisingly difficult to get ""hard"" information (pun intended) on " "what engines (& when so equipped) have ""hardened"" valve seats, what the " "materials are, etc. As written previously, I have seen very little " "written about engine damage caused by unleaded gas, either because of " "valve recession or pre-ignition, nor have any of the mechanics I know " "related any stories. The cars I drive are a '66 Imperial, '69 Alfa and " '87 Jeep Comanche and all still run very well. If anyone investigates the Mopar web sites for information on the """small-block"" V-8 used by Bristol perhaps better data will be uncovered. " "Bob (Burbank CA, still with MTBF in the gas) " "Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:14:39 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: NetNews#20 NetNews#20 - Millennium Edition ------------------------------- First of all may I extend a welcome to those _New_ Club Members who have just joined our circle and who will be treading with us into the "next club year, which starts aptly on 1st January 2000. " Secondly might I take a 'seasonal moment' and wish you all old and new friends alike a 'Very Merry Christmas'... and when it comes a _Happy Hogmanay._ I felt I had to get this out before then ;-) Not that I expect this steam driven variation of the BBC Computer to buckle at the value '1999+1'... I'll leave that to those clever boxes built in USA with bits and bytes from Taiwan and stuffed with Cream cakes.(or they ought to be!#-) This last month has seen some hectic activity to end the Century and the second (Yes the second) Millennium. [In our calendar at least]... After all the Egyptians were quick enough to tell us it is the dawn of their 9th Millennium if I remember correctly. At least I got the spelling right this time )%.( "New models appeared at the Motor Shows held in London and Glasgow, as " well as the Motor Cycle show in the NEC at Birmingham. Magazines and TV programs were covering these related events in profusion as usual and the efforts of the Manufacturers agents who deploy every skill known to man and many totally uncalled for... just to gain that vital comment in the News or else just to catch that important item in the composition of the printed page 'the Editors eye'. Bristol Cars Ltd. whilst not having a stand at these events announced in a much more businesslike manner 2 new developments. First the launch of the latest revision of the Blenheim as 'Bristol "Blenheim 3', displaying to one and all the effect of a new Jig for " the Front as was equally evident in its earlier counterpart which improved the rear of the 'Blenheim 2'. Toby Silverton was heard to say on the launch of Blenheim 2 'that the "next step would be to upgrade the front', thus he has lived up to his " promise. Pleasing therefore to see that the first part of the equation was fulfilled when a magnificent Pale Metallic Green Blenheim 3 with stunning flawless Cream Leather was revealed to both customers Club Members and the press in the Kensington Showroom. Also in early November the Second Act was revealed as the curtain was finally raised on the Bristol Project 'Fighter'. It has certainly managed to catch 'the editors eye' for I have lost count of the pictures and comments in many magazines. Blenheim 3 did get some copy but what stole the stage was the mouthwatering specification of the first two seater bristol for nigh on half a century in fact since the Type 404. I won't repeat it as the Press Release was reported verbatim in NetNews19 those of you who did not get thast issue can see it on one of the altered pages. WEBSITE CHANGES --------------- As the Primary function of this irregular letter is to inform those Club Members who do also have Internet access that there are changes Ltd... and things pertaining thereto here goes... "The latest changes include the 'history' page, also 'gallery', " "'news', 'events', pages '407' to '412' inclusive... and finally major " surgical attention to '603' and '6032' ...gasp! with finally yet another new page 'bfr' which covers what little I have been able to extract from magazines and papers to date of the Second Act without being too repetitive. The 'Tour Guide' has been extended of course and now wraps at the 'bfr' or Fighter page back to the Gallery. Am indebted to Geoff.Hawkins for trying to jam the Docklands Server with several Multi megabyte modified pictures of Blenheim 3 without which all that would remain would be those kindly donated from another Website which also covers the subject. We all live and learn. Thanks again Geoff.. I have tested the links and images as best I can. Do please let me know if you hit any snags... and an email to webmaster@boc.net will find me and I'll endeavour to keep the wagons on the track. Likewise please PLEASE !!!advise!!! if you are changing or have changed your address and wish NetNews delivered elsewhere or if you wish simply to be removed from the roll. If your mail is returned by your server as an 'unknown address' I have little choice but to "remove the dead address, and theron you lose your copy... " FORUM ----- "Some of you have joined Forum, ...and it does work... but " relies largely on your input _not mine_ to speed messages... questions... and answers... on Bristol or Club related topics around the globe. Only one rule - no attachments allowed. SERVICE HANDBOOK ---------------- Newer members may not have noted in their paperwork from John Emery that there is a Private Club area for Members to visit on the website accessed via the address http://www.boc.net/bristol/service.html details of all Regalia and material available via Reprint Service are included therein. You can move seamlessly back into the general club site area but there are deliberately no _hot links_ in the other direction. Finally thank you all for you kind support and suggestions over the last Millennium (well couple of years ;-). I am told by unsolicited email contacts that we do have the best BRISTOL website in the world and that from surfers of countries around the globe. See no reason to contradict them... :-) I hope we will see further development of this invaluable resource in the next few years... but I would not even try to guess what they might be... "kind regards, and the very best to you and yours into the New Century. " Bob Charlton Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Visited the Clubs area of boc.net site yet? Forum - the chatline for Bristol interests. "Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:12:14 +0000 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: 400 ci engine Greetings fellow Bristolians. A few simple questions from a new owner trying to return a '77 412s1 to full health: Does everyone have problems starting the 400 engine ? What should the static timing be? I've had conflicting advice on this and it's presently 12 btdc. It pops a bit in the carb when starting which suggests that figure is not right. I am considering changing the Carter carb. for a Holly ( recommended by my tame American engine specialist) Has anyone tried one of these ? Can the self leveling be repaired - Bristol seem to think not ? Thanking you all in anticiaption. David Moody-Doyle. 2-2-2000. owners interests...etc. "Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:58:59 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: 400 ci engine References: <20000202160821.SZDM11821.mta3-svc.virgin.net@[62.252.40.70]> David - "If you ""run out of gas"" on getting advice for your engine, you might try " "one of our domestic MOPAR sites, such as: " http://allpar.com/ or the more general: http://www.public.usit.net/jmoore/links.html if you would like to pursue the US angle and can send me some of the "ID's on your engine, I'll see what I can dig up. " "Sort of related to this, there's a bookstore nearby specializing in used " auto literature that currently has a loose-leaf collection of the MOPAR "performance bulletins from the '70's, about 20 bulletins in all. " Serious road-racing/drag-racing hints from the factory. Not exactly what I need for my 2 liter Bristol-engined car or my 440 land-yacht "Imperial, but if I can find enough loose-change, I'll snag it because of " its rarity. Bob (sunny in Burbank today) > Does everyone have problems starting the 400 engine ? > What should the static timing be? I've had conflicting advice on this and > it's presently 12 btdc. It pops a bit in the carb when starting which > suggests that figure is not right. > I am considering changing the Carter carb. for a Holly (recommended by my > tame American engine specialist) Has anyone tried one of these ? > Can the self leveling be repaired - Bristol seem to think not ? > Thanking you all in anticiaption. David Moody-Doyle. owners interests...etc. "Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 04:00 +0000 (PST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: 400 ci engine Cc: BullEd@boc.net > Greetings fellow Bristolians. "And to you, welcome David " > A few simple questions from a new owner trying to return a '77 > 412s1 to > full health: > Does everyone have problems starting the 400 engine ? "Not unknown, but can be fixed. Choke usually up the creek. " > What should the static timing be? I've had conflicting advice on this > and > it's presently 12 btdc. It pops a bit in the carb when starting which > suggests that figure is not right. "Not sure, but isn't in the owners handbook someone? " > I am considering changing the Carter carb. for a Holly ( recommended > by my > tame American engine specialist) Not usually a good idea in my experience. >Has anyone tried one of these ? "They have been tried, usually more trouble than its worth as correct " settings and jet sizes have to be found by trial and error I gather. > Can the self leveling be repaired - Bristol seem to think not ? "Can be done, but general advice is don't bother. If you disconnect it all, " don't forget to set the torsion bars up a bit. "I am sorry this has not been very technical, maybe others can give chapter " and verse. I just always take mis-behaving V8s to Spencer.... "regards, " Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor BullEd@boc.net "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " owners interests...etc. "Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 16:40:05 +1100 " From: julian caples Subject: Re: 400 ci engine References: <20000202160821.SZDM11821.mta3-svc.virgin.net@[62.252.40.70]> david hope my comments below help regards julian David Moody-Doyle wrote: > Greetings fellow Bristolians. greetings to you too > A few simple questions from a new owner trying to return a '77 412s1 to > full health: "have spent some time getting my 412 to run right, so i'm happy to share " > Does everyone have problems starting the 400 engine ? no - mine starts fine. i have a small electric fuel pump fitted so i can prime "the system, but even if i don't use it it usually starts fine once the fuel gets " to the manifold > What should the static timing be? I've had conflicting advice on this and > it's presently 12 btdc. It pops a bit in the carb when starting which > suggests that figure is not right. mine's set to 10 btdc you might want to get the electronic box of tricks checked out (it's above the steering column (rhd drive cars) under the bonnet - the standard (black) box does tend to run out of spark after 20 years or so - there is a high performance chrysler replacement available off the shelf (orange) - about three minutes work to swap it over > I am considering changing the Carter carb. for a Holly ( recommended by my > tame American engine specialist) Has anyone tried one of these ? "do not do this - you will regret it. my 412 came fitted with such a modification, " "it ran like a dog, power delivery was allover the place, and fuel economy was " "about 8mpg on a good day - even tuning on a dyno by a holley ""guru"" didn't help. " "so i replaced it with the MOPAR recommended Carter fourbarrel, and it ran like a " dream straight out of the box (no tweaking necessary) carter and chrysler have a long term relationship going back 50+ years - you can get carters specially set up for all chrysler engines - and it makes a huge difference "currently getting 16mpg round town, and up to 20 mpg in the country (if i behave " "myself), power delivery is much smoother, and the engine feels much sweeter. " in my personal opinion the only holley set up that you would even consider is the """six pack"" which was developed specifically for the chrysler 383 and 427 engines, " and even then you'd have to tweak it for the 400cuin engines which don't go so hard. "if you really wantto try a holley, i'll give you my ""old"" one (not very old) - " just pay frieght costs and it's yours if you've still got the original equipment carter thermoquad on your car then the autochoke bit that sits in the well in the manifold is probably not ok. they tend to get incineratedafter a few years and then become very eratic or cease to function at all > Can the self leveling be repaired - Bristol seem to think not ? "yes, but it's hard work, very expensive and not really worth the effort " > Thanking you all in anticiaption. David Moody-Doyle. > 2-2-2000. > Attachments are _NOT_ allowed in this discussion/information facility "> Topics - any subject broadly related to Bristol engined cars, clubs or " > owners interests...etc. "Associated Clubs or of owner, members, interests... " "Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:40:34 +0000 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: Leaded petrol... Organization: Questus Limited "Folks, " Sorry for raising this subject again last month - I became aware that it had already exercised a number of you considerably last year. "Anyhow, in my original posting I referred to an article in the Daily " Telegraph on 8th January suggesting that Tetra-Ethyl lead would be made available as an additive in limited quantities. Further to that article I note via Classic Motor Monthly's web site (http://www.classicmotor.co.uk) that the UK has licenced Bayford Thrust to supply leaded 4-star in the U to 'special interest groups'. The Bayford site (http://www.bayfordthrust.co.uk/Mainhtm/fourstar.htm) contains details and a list of suppliers. At the current time it seems that there are only a small number of "suppliers (none in the Midlands, for instance) but they mention that the " aim is to have 3-4 per county eventually. I'm not clear whether some form of credentials (membership card...) will be required to secure a purchase as potentially the market is large. It seems that a limited percentage of the total fuel supply is still allowed to be leaded under European "legislation, at least for a couple of years. " "Given the fact that this information came from the Internet, may I be so " bold as to suggest that you verify that the station to which you are about to travel to actually has some stock before you start your journey? I suspect that the business case for a long-range fuel-tank upgrade from Bristol Cars Limited may just have improved significantly! Best Regards Ian -- Ian Beeby Managing Consultant Questus Limited "Fax: +44 1483 400909 " "E-mail: Ian.Beeby@questus.co.uk " "Web: http://www.questus.co.uk " "Associated Clubs or of owner, members, interests... " "Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:59:31 +0000 (GMT) " From: BOC General Registrar Subject: Tony Gaze "Hi Folks, " I have been asked if I've heard of Tony Gaze. I had not. He allegedly drove a 'Bristol Engined' car in 1956 at 'Le Mans'. He is/was (I don't know which is apposite) Australian. The research is for a project to be published in Australia. Any info at all would be appreciated. Just another link in the chain will do. "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club Domain and Website http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 14:19:57 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Tony Gaze References: <498d20e9f0GenRegr@boc.net> Hi Bob - > I have been asked if I've heard of Tony Gaze. I also had a message from Leigh Wilkins asking about Tony Gaze and this is what I sent back to him: """Hello Leigh - " "I've checked the most recent Frazer Nash book, ""From Chain Drive to " "Turbocharger"" ( Denis Jenkinson) and indeed Tony Gaze is mentioned on p " "225 as Dickie Stoop's co-driver in 1956, with a picture of both in the " background of the prior page. My last record shows this car (Sebring 421/200/205) is owned by Peter Mann in the UK. The only other info I'm "likely to have is a few other magazine articles, which I'll need a " little time to dig into. "I'll copy this reply to two ""ace"" Frazer Nash historians (well, they " "know much more than I do!), Jim Trigwell in GB and Geoff Dowdle in " Australia. Give this all a few days and we'll see what more can be uncovered. Thanks for the interest in the Frazer Nash aspect! "Bob Schmitt"" " "Associated Clubs or of owner, members, interests... " "Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 10:35:48 -0800 (PST) " From: rogpugh@dircon.co.uk Subject: Interesting item on eBay UK web site item#256372177: unique 1952 BRISTOL 2-litre Michelotti sketch "This item is on auction at Ebay, thought someone might be intrested, a bit beyond my " meagre finances though! "Title of item: unique 1952 BRISTOL 2-litre Michelotti sketch " "Seller: automobiliat@autoliteratur.com " "Starts: 08-Feb-00 17:27:37 GMT " "Ends: 15-Feb-00 17:27:37 GMT " "Price: Starts at US $375.00 " "To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-" cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item256372177 Item Description: "Ghia-Aigle, dated 1.9.1952 and signed by Maestro himself, 53x27cm, rare piece of real " design history. Buyer pays actual shipping costs. Rates to USA starts at $ 8 (ask for "European rates). Payment: VISA, Mastercard, Western Union Money Transfer or in cash " "sent by registered air-mail letter. If you pay by International Money Order, please add $ 8 " to cover bank charges. Check also our website at: www.autoliteratur.com athttp://www.ebay.co.uk "Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:49:39 +0000 (GMT) " From: BOC General Registrar Subject: Re: Tony Gaze References: <498d20e9f0GenRegr@boc.net> "In article , " Peter C. Radcliffe wrote: > Try Janos Wimpffen who has just written the book Time and Two Seats "> at jlwmrg@earthlink.net, he certainly will be able to answer the Le " > Mans question and also have record of any other major international > sportscar Races Thanks Peter - most helpful. I just knew Forum was the right place to ask ;)) "rgds., Bob " Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club Domain and Website http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Associated Clubs or of owner, members, interests... " "Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:01:58 -0500 (EST) " From: MERCBILL@aol.com Subject: 403 Brakes Can any Club member throw any light on the subject of rear brakes and hand "brake on the Bristol 403(1952), I am also looking for a source for spare " parts. Bill Heath New member "Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:59:32 +0000 (GMT) " From: Webmaster Subject: Net News 21 Net News 21 Another Century - another edition. First welcome to those of you reading NetNews for the first time. It probably means you've just joined the club or perhaps rejoined after a sabaticle. In either case I hope you find this useful. Next the web changes "Pages altered recently are advert.html, index.html, info.html, " regrs.html "The reason/reasons... Graeme Browne has resigned as Bulletin Editor, " having just produced what I regarded as one of the very best Bulletins It has since been pointed out to me that one article had a huge chunk missing in the middle. Oh! Dear!! Also that credits were not given to some Authors nor to Photographers. Argh!!! Well its easier to criticise than to do - so I still say.... Thank you for stepping into the post after it had been held for so many years by Ray Cross. What would he have made of this medium? (8{O)3D No doubt the new incumbant will duly take note. Who's that? Well... Thankfully Andrew Blow has agreed to get print ink on his fingers. So if you have any items for the Bulletin please now send them to Andrew. Andrew can be reached by email from the new auto link inserted to BullEd@boc.net on the /advert.html page. Or even from this page?;-) Contact Address and Phone details also supplied thereon. In a similar vein Adrian Berry who thankfully continues as Newsletter Editor maintaining some degree of stability may be also now reached from the new auto mail link NewsEd@boc.net also on the on the /advert.html page. Other Clubs / Scene changes D3D3D3D3D Shawn R Thomas of San JosE9 - California has advised that a new contingent/cluster is forming on the West coast of America and they "call themselves the ""Bristols of America"". Which will now become " another Associate Club?/gathering? to the BOC with the benefits that merits. Shawn tells me he intends to recommend Membership of the BOC and if they take that track they will also receive the Bulletin and Newsletters... and our respective 'editors' might gain some interesting Images and Copy. I hope at long last we will see an uprising of Bristol cars from the depths of old sheds and in all parts of the USA - that we might benefit from their local knowledge. It almost goes without saying an active body in the USA will bring benefits to V8 owners in the other Bristol clubs too. "The access to, and prices charged for parts, from Nuts and Bolts, to " complete Transmissions - like British cars sold elsewhere in Europe bear no relation to what we have in the UK... and its so often the case of course that the material is available off the shelf... if you first know where to look! Co-incidentally within a fortnight of the links being established with "Shawn, Lee Raskin the long time Curator of the Arnolt Registry data " was persuaded to pass the office over to Shawn - as a result he has now been appointed the BOC Arnolt Registrar in America. As some of you with Membership Lists may have noticed Andrew Blow is "the BOC Arnolt Registrar, actually this means for the most of the rest " of the planet. He remains in that post. By far the majority of Arnolt Bristols remain in the USA.. To date we have identified (off the cuff) about 20 Arnolts elsewhere. Probably a tad more but since the database is off line atm I cannot be precise. These events have no effect on Peter McGough's position as BOC Registrar for North America - which of course includes Canada. These developments are the more than we could have hoped for. At last there is something moving on the West Coast and they have already forged links with Graham Kilsby and the Bristol Aviation preservationists in Tennessee. Shawn has been invited to join the Tennessee Board as a representative of the Auto enthusiasts side of Bristol interest. Indeed within weeks so Shawn has told me - he is also assisting in the transport of the next Aeroplane to be shipped to Tennessee. Would I had his energy! A pilots license might help of course if there is to be a lot of to'ing and fro'ing between California and Tennessee. In reciprocity Bristols of America have been offered the use of the Tennessee location as a venue for gatherings. Thus landing strip and a club venue! Sounds too good to miss! Distant members could if they wished fly in for the events. Its a small country really. ;)) We shall watch developments with interest. hoping to read details much sooner rather than later. Bits in Mags... There is a section in the March edtn. of 'Thoroughbred & Classic Cars' (issue no 318) where Staff Writers either pick or are asked to discuss a subject and on p.41 Martin buckley chews over the appeal of a Bristol. Perhaps a bit tongue in cheek - but clearly Mr Buckley was hoping he get a drive in a new Bristol. ...erm ...was that a Pig Flying by?;) 'Classic and Sportscar' on the other hand only manages to mention in their index that; "Bristol 400 (My Classic and I) was featured in Mar99 edtn., p.112. " "Bristol 406 Zagato (My Classic & I)was featured in Jul99 edtn., p.140. " "Bristol 412/S3 (Case Histories) was featured in Apr99 edtn., p.195. " "AC Ace (Our Classics) was featured in Dec99 edtn., p.194. " "AC Ace and Aceca was featured in Oct89 edtn., p.116. " NON Bristol Engined AC cars were featured in later editions. "Still its useful to have this info to hand, or in mind whilst browsing " "the Automobilia Stands, if you do not normally subscribe. " and so this press goes to bed... a4n.. Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:05:19 +0000 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: 409 Electrics... Organization: Questus Limited "Folks, " My 409 developed an electrical fault last week on a long-ish journey. It turns out that operating the flasher now causes the 35Amp fuse to blow. The flasher had been working fine at the outset of the journey but I had "to finish with no fuel gauge, no cooling fan (and heavy queueing on the " A38) and no brakes or signals:-( Since I am awaiting more detailed "documentation on this vehicle, which is new to me, I should appreciate some " guidance regarding the following: "1/ Where is the flasher unit located? " "2/ Is there an easy source of these? " "3/ Is it a standard modification to separate the electrical supply for the " brake-lamps from the others and also to separate the supply for one of the fans to prevent catastrophe should one element fail? Any advice much appreciated. Cheers Ian -- Ian Beeby Managing Consultant Questus Limited "Fax: +44 1483 400909 " "E-mail: Ian.Beeby@questus.co.uk " "Web: http://www.questus.co.uk " "Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:06:24 +0000 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: Leaded fuel... Organization: Questus Limited "Folks, " You may wish to visit the site http://www.bayfordthrust.co.uk wherea list of fuel stations supplying leaded 4-star fuel again can be found . I filled up my 409 on Saturday at the humble Fountains Garage at "Whatstandwell, Derbyshire:-) " Cheers Ian -- Ian Beeby Managing Consultant Questus Limited "Fax: +44 1483 400909 " "E-mail: Ian.Beeby@questus.co.uk " "Web: http://www.questus.co.uk " "Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:22:20 -0500 (EST) " From: Davedaleok@aol.com Subject: oil for 403 i would appreciate advice from knowledgeable bristol enthusiasts on the subject of the correct engine oil to use in my 403. thanks. dave dale ( davedaleok@aol.com ) " Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:17:32 +0000 " "Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:17:17 +0000 " From: Stephen Wall Subject: Re: oil for 403 At the recommendation of Brian Marelli at Bristol Car Services I have used standard Castrol GTX for the last few years with no problems.20 >>> 07/03/00 21:22:20 >>> i would appreciate advice from knowledgeable bristol enthusiasts on the20 subject of the correct engine oil to use in my 403. thanks. dave dale ( davedaleok@aol.com ) Forum et20 "Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:43 +0000 (PST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: oil for 403 The general advice seems to be to use a good quality multi-grade but not to change to synthetics. My cars run on Valvoline because that is what Spencer Lane-Jones has used on virtually all the Bristols he has serviced for many years. I am sure that Castrol GTX or Duckhams are equally "suitable. You need to take the claims of the so-called ""classic oils"" with " "a large pinch of salt, in my personal opinion. " "Andrew Blow, UK " www.racecar.co.uk/andrewblow Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com "Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:00:43 +0000 " From: Mike Berrill Subject: Looking for spares " charset""iso-8859-1"" " I am restoring a 401 and need over the coming year or so contacts for a selection of spare parts. Some of the items I need are; A petrol gauge A petrol tank Both windscreens Drivers side widow20 Anti roll bar drop arm20 A couple of brake drums Two spot light cups Both bottom door panels (the ones with the holes in that fit across the bottom of the door) Can anyone help?. Regards20 Mike Berrill BOC 2072 [ HTML duplicate Removed by Postmaster ] Welcome to Forum Mike Please remember to switch html attachements off its an unnecessary waste of bandwidth and in any case repititious and banned by consensus in Forum. Bob Charlton "Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:15:36 +0000 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: 412 starting problems. Following my questions about difficult starting on the 400ci engine fitted "In particular, thanks to those who advised against changing to a Holly carb. " The car now starts easly 90% of the time. For anyone suffering similar problems a few hard won tips: Suspect a lazy starter motor and tired battery. My starter stuck engaged and drained the battery totally. Following the replacement of both the starting was transformed. No more problems - except when the car is put in to the garage still hot. It then takes a lot of churning before it will fire. Heat soak through the (Non standard) Carter 3000 carb evaporates all the fuel in the float chambers. (This should be less of a problem with the orginal Thermoquad). I asked about static timing. An old hand in the local owners club group suggested the following which worked beatifully: Set the idle speed at around 2000rpm. Then lossen the distributor and move gently until the engine purrs sweetly and the speed rises a little. Re-adjust idle speed. Not technical - but it works wonderfully. My car is transformed both in starting and performance. Thank you again to all who offered help and advice. David Moody-Doyle. Birmingham. U.K. "Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:54:57 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 412 starting problems. "David, " In your quest for information on this topic did you find out what the Carter model number was for the original thermoquad ? I have a 411 Series 5 which has a Carter which the previous owner fitted to replace a Holley! However this carb is proving difficult to tune as some parts are worn. I am thinking of replacing it and know someone who reckons he can get hold of a thermoquad for me if I can supply the right model number. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "Melbourne, Australia " "On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:15:36 +0000, forum@boc.net wrote: " >Following my questions about difficult starting on the 400ci engine fitted ">In particular, thanks to those who advised against changing to a Holly carb. " >The car now starts easly 90% of the time. For anyone suffering similar >problems a few hard won tips: Suspect a lazy starter motor and tired >battery. My starter stuck engaged and drained the battery totally. >Following the replacement of both the starting was transformed. No more >problems - except when the car is put in to the garage still hot. It then >takes a lot of churning before it will fire. Heat soak through the (Non >standard) Carter 3000 carb evaporates all the fuel in the float chambers. >(This should be less of a problem with the orginal Thermoquad). I asked >about static timing. An old hand in the local owners club group suggested >the following which worked beatifully: Set the idle speed at around >2000rpm. Then lossen the distributor and move gently until the engine >purrs sweetly and the speed rises a little. Re-adjust idle speed. Not >technical - but it works wonderfully. My car is transformed both in >starting and performance. Thank you again to all who offered help and >advice. David Moody-Doyle. Birmingham. U.K. >To SEND a contribution to Forum subscribers use the address Forum@boc.net "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 03/13/2000 at 7:49:38 AM " "Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:10:22 -0500 " From: stephen.sparkes@adiglobal.com (Stephen Sparkes) Subject: seeking oxley books on bristol "after devouring 'a private car', and more recently finding a copy of " "'bristol cars and engines' (thanks to ebay), i'm now seeking either of the " "oxley books on bristols - ""the quiet survivor"", or ""an illustrated history"". " "if anyone has a copy they'd be willing to part with for a fair price, please " let me know. i'm living in new york at the moment but will obviously pay shipping and pay in gbp/whatever as preferred. "i have a particular interest in the 405 drophead, 410, and " "britannia/brigand, so if anyone has additional recommendations for material " "on these models, i'd be very grateful to hear from them. " "regards, " steve. stephen sparkes 305 2nd ave #513 new york ny 10003 "Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:34:47 +0000 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: RE: 'SIGNON Forum' Importance: Normal How? > -----Original Message----- > From: Forum@boc.net [mailto:Forum@boc.net]On Behalf Of Alan Burnett "> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 4:41 PM " > To: Forum@boc.net > Subject: 'SIGNON Forum' > Attachment removed - Postmaster > Welcome Alan > Please switch off html duplication of messages. > write SIGNOFF Forum > Forum@boc.net "Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:04:31 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Fwd: as shall we say joining problem References: <000801bf8c41$db271e00$62a3883e@zdygttup> ReSent-From: Bob Charlton ReSent-To: Distribution List From: Bob Charlton Date: 13 Mar 2000 1105 Subject: Shall we say joining problem - "In article <000001bf8cc9$908343a0$9f1c989e@ianbeeby>, " Ian Beeby wrote: > How? Good question Ian. For your information - I've changed the subject line to avoid any one joining everytime they reply. Hope I'm in time... I know we have had this before but forget the answer... /:-\ Can one of you users in here help? Because as most of you know - I do not use a PC.. nor Microsft Outlook Express. "Thanks in anticipation, " "cheers, Bob " ------ End forwarded message ------ "Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:41:06 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: BOC Inet traffic disruption Apology and explanation... If any of you have sent enquiries to General Registrar / Postmaster / or for membership of Forum recently (viz.post 6th March) and have not had either a reply or seen your enquiry presented in Forum... this might help? During the last fortnight one of the 3 servers at Pipex:Argonet came "under attack from some 'nut case' person in Texas, who tried to close " the system down by stuffing it with over 1/4 million letters. It is reported that the FBI are now investigating this offence with other such occurences. Obviously the person involved did not know that there is always more than one Server on line - if only to provide for normal maintenance. The mail was however disrupted because the genuine data on that "server had to be recovered and sent on its way by the engineers, " "after checking, some taking up to 5 days to reach its original " intended destination. "In conjunction with this incident - though not at all related, my " Back-up HardDisc - the largest and until then the youngest of same - on which was residing my retained club and internet correspondence files... chose to shrivel and die by degrees taking with it most of said files during the reconstruction. Having replaced the drive and re installed the Mailing program things are again functioning properly. (touch wood!:-) Which leaves me to advise those who have tried to join Forum or not had replies to their enquiries and who may be wondering what has been happening during this period - that possibly some recent articles/letters have been irretrievably lost. If you fall into one of these categories and are wondering what happened to your enquiry etc. - then I can only apologise and ask you to re-send. Hopefully this will bring things back into sync.. As far as I can tell letters to BullEd and NewsEd addresses have not "largely been affected - so adverts, enquiries, articles, and " "illustrations, would seem to have reached their destinations " successfully. One large picture file I did identify as corrupted and by me unsalvageable... has since been re sent after my request to the author. "Hope this helps explain the silence, " "rgds., Bob " Bob Charlton http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 00:15:32 +0000 " From: Bernie Peal "Subject: ""SIGNON Forum"" " "Dear Bernie Peal, " Welcome to Forum. I see you are using Microsoft Outlook Express. Can you please ask it to desist sending an 'html mime attachement' of your message when you post to Forum - because whilst we have few rules - one is not to include attachements. You may not even be aware that it does... at the moment. "I'm not sure how or where you find the switch, but it has to be in the " instructions somewhere... Most Newsgroups do not allow attachments. Thanks in anticipation. "rgds., Bob Charlton " "Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:33:51 +0000 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: BOC Inet traffic disruption References: <49a2c5d4baPostmaster@boc.net> "Dear Bob, " Thank you for your explanation. All I was doing was trying to join the forum and see how it works. I am trying to find someone who has spares or is breaking a beyond repair 407 and converse with anybody who has one as I have a few questions. Is this how the Forum works? Kind regards Nick Challacombe "Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:49:43 +0000 " From: david bard Subject: 'SIGNON Forum' http-equiv3DContent-Type>
 
"Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:52:38 -0500 (EST) " From: BristolSRT@aol.com Subject: Re: BOC Inet traffic disruption I have many spares for 407 and can answer questions for these models. kind regards Shawn Thomas BristolSRT@aol.com "Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:35:29 +0000 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: BOC Inet traffic disruption References: <49a2c5d4baPostmaster@boc.net> ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Nicholas Challacombe"" " "Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 9:33 AM " Subject: Re: BOC Inet traffic disruption "> Dear Bob, " > Thank you for your explanation. > All I was doing was trying to join the forum and see how it works. > I am trying to find someone who has spares or is breaking a beyond repair > 407 and converse with anybody who has one as I have a few questions. > Is this how the Forum works? > Kind regards > Nick Challacombe Forum Forum@boc.net "Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:56:37 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Avon safety wheels Does anyone know when Avon started manufacturing the alloy safety wheel which was offered as an option on the 411 Series V ? I have just imported a set into Australia and the year in which they were first manufactured is significant when calculating duty and sales tax. "Thanks, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 03/23/2000 at 11:52:58 PM " NB.:Attached HTML removed - please switch off attachments Postmaster "Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:42:54 +0000 (GMT) " From: BOC General Registrar Subject: Avon safety wheels "In article <200003231259.XAA10674@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: [snip] > Does anyone know when Avon started manufacturing the alloy safety > wheel which was offered as an option on the 411 Series V ? Have you asked Chris Smithies? Email address listed under 411 Registrar on Registrars page... BOC Website http://www.boc.net/bristol/regrs.html I'd be surprised if he does not know. Failing that perhaps Avon Tyres/Avon Wheels should have a website and a technical contact address. You surprise me! I was not aware that these wheels were ever a Standard Specification fitting on any series 411at all.... Interesting to find out though. I confess I thought the first Bristol trials were conducted on a 412 by Tony Crook himself blowing a front tyre at 140? M.P.H. at Filton Aerodrome. Subsequently they were to be adopted as a specification on the 412 series in 1975 - but that in any case does not mean they were first invented in 1975. Again interesting to know if many were retro fitted too. "Hope this helps, " Bob Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club Club Domain and Website http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:01:49 +0000 " From: Jan Musil Subject: Heater I am a just a little puzzled about the heating system in a 603E. It is "possible to get some heat to the footwell, but only cold air to the " windscreen and face. The instruction manual dampens expectations by stating that 'an even flow from each nozle or duct is not to be expected'.20 Can anybody give me an indication of what I can reasonably expect from "the heater, because at present it seems inadequate. " "ps, there is an aftermarket valve in the engine bay for summer and " winter use to prevent engine overheating. I cannot work out which way is "on or off, and it does not seem to make any difference to the engine " temp. or heater temp. anyway.20 "I must lead a very boring life to worry about such things, but curiosity " is 'burning me up'. http-equiv3DContent-Type>
I am a just a little puzzled about the heating20 "system in a 603E. It is possible to get some heat to the footwell, but " only cold20 air to the windscreen and face. The instruction manual dampens expectations by20 stating that 'an even flow from each nozle or duct is not to be20 expected'. 
Can anybody give me an indication of what I can20 "reasonably expect from the heater, because at present it seems20 " inadequate.
"
ps, there is an aftermarket valve in " the engine20 bay for summer and winter use to prevent engine overheating. I cannot work out20 "which way is on or off, and it does not seem to make any difference to " the20 engine temp. or heater temp. anyway. 
I must lead a very boring life to worry about20 "such things, but curiosity is 'burning me " hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02854 for "Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:47:33 -0500 " From: David Dearden Subject: Re: Avon safety wheels References: <49a3d8a78eGenRegr@boc.net> "The Motor Sport article in 1975 (50th Anniversary issue) shows, if my memory " is right a Series V 411 with the safety wheels. I think that the article suggests that the 140 mph blow-out demonstration was at RAF Keevil (SW of Bristol). At least one person knows which ... David Dearden ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""BOC General Registrar"" " "Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 10:42 AM " Subject: Avon safety wheels "> In article <200003231259.XAA10674@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " > Kevin Howard wrote: [snip] > > Does anyone know when Avon started manufacturing the alloy safety > > wheel which was offered as an option on the 411 Series V ? > Have you asked Chris Smithies? Email address listed under 411 > Registrar on Registrars page... BOC Website > http://www.boc.net/bristol/regrs.html > I'd be surprised if he does not know. > Failing that perhaps Avon Tyres/Avon Wheels should have a website and > a technical contact address. > You surprise me! > I was not aware that these wheels were ever a Standard Specification > fitting on any series 411at all.... Interesting to find out though. > I confess I thought the first Bristol trials were conducted on a 412 > by Tony Crook himself blowing a front tyre at 140? M.P.H. at Filton > Aerodrome. Subsequently they were to be adopted as a specification on > the 412 series in 1975 - but that in any case does not mean they were > first invented in 1975. Again interesting to know if many were retro > fitted too. > "> Hope this helps, " > Bob > Bob Charlton - General Registrar - Bristol Owners Club > Club Domain and Website http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Forum Forum@boc.net "Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:13 +0000 (PST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Avon safety wheels "Come on Bob, your memory is going! " "The Avon safety wheels trial was on a 411 S3 I think, and they are often " "found on late 411s as well as S1 412s and 603 E and S , which were of " "course contemporary. They are not often fitted to S2 412s or Beaufighters, " though Brigand-type alloys wheels sometimes are (to Beaufighters). I think "it was a case of go into the stores and see what you find, this is then " """standard spec"" until it runs out! " What is perhaps more interesting is whether they were ever fitted to any other cars? "Having looked through my books, the earliest dated reference I can find " "for a car shown with these wheels is 1975, but I think they were an option " from 1973 or 74. A call to Tony Crook would no doubt tell you. Andrew Blow "Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:03:23 +0000 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: Avon safety wheels Importance: Normal "He does not know, but he is going to try to find out. Watch this space. " "Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:22:40 +1200 " From: Chris Browne Subject: Re: Avon safety wheels "on 24/3/2000 3:42 AM, BOC General Registrar at GenRegr@boc.net wrote: " "> In article <200003231259.XAA10674@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " > Kevin Howard wrote: [snip] >> Does anyone know when Avon started manufacturing the alloy safety >> wheel which was offered as an option on the 411 Series V ? > Have you asked Chris Smithies? Email address listed under 411 > Registrar on Registrars page... BOC Website > http://www.boc.net/bristol/regrs.html > I'd be surprised if he does not know. > Failing that perhaps Avon Tyres/Avon Wheels should have a website and > a technical contact address. > You surprise me! > I was not aware that these wheels were ever a Standard Specification > fitting on any series 411at all.... Interesting to find out though. > I confess I thought the first Bristol trials were conducted on a 412 > by Tony Crook himself blowing a front tyre at 140? M.P.H. at Filton > Aerodrome. Subsequently they were to be adopted as a specification on > the 412 series in 1975 - but that in any case does not mean they were > first invented in 1975. Again interesting to know if many were retro > fitted too. > "> Hope this helps, " > Bob "So far as I am aware, the Avon safety wheel was offered as an option on the " series 4 411 as well as the series 5 (I do not think that I have ever seen a series 5 411 which was not fitted with these wheels). My series 4 (first registered in January 1975) was fitted with them from new. The car which was "used in the famous test was either a series 3 or series 4 411, not a series " 5 or 412. I believe that the wheels were first available in 1974 on the series 4 411 at the latest. Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@attglobal.net "Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 08:00:27 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Remote Gear Change Iam looking for the follow parts to complete a 2litre remote gearchange "; Spring in g/lear, 3 bolt fixing end cover plate and studfs, operating " shaft in casting and threaded end plug.Can any help please. http-equiv3DContent-Type>
Iam looking for the follow parts to complete a20 "2litre remote gearchange ;  Spring in g/lear, 3 bolt fixing end " cover plate20 "and studfs, operating shaft in casting and threaded end plug.Can any " help20 please.
hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA08677 for "Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:39:00 -0500 " From: David Dearden Subject: Re: Heater References: <002001bf94e9$8f388500$dba632d4@kar8zlxd> "First of all, are you sure that the heater is working? There will " always be some heat to the footwells - remember how close the engine is. If it is then the controls to the air direction system may have become disconnected - does moving the lower of the two levers on the heater control have any effect at all on air flow ?(suggest have the boost fan on full). If the answer is No then I think you will need to start "digging behind the dashboard; if the answer is Yes, then I would suspect " "the ""aftermarket"" valve. " "My 603S2 sends out lots of hot air to the heater vents, to be balanced " by cold air from the ventilation system. My a/c doesn't work because some bright spark disconnected it - with wire-cutters! 20 "Good Luck, " David Dearden ----- Original Message -----20 From: Jan Musil20 To: Forum@boc.net20 " Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 12:01 PM " Subject: Heater I am a just a little puzzled about the heating system in a 603E. It is "possible to get some heat to the footwell, but only cold air to the " windscreen and face. The instruction manual dampens expectations by stating that 'an even flow from each nozle or duct is not to be expected'.20 Can anybody give me an indication of what I can reasonably expect from "the heater, because at present it seems inadequate. " " ps, there is an aftermarket valve in the engine bay for summer and " winter use to prevent engine overheating. I cannot work out which way is "on or off, and it does not seem to make any difference to the engine " temp. or heater temp. anyway.20 " I must lead a very boring life to worry about such things, but " curiosity is 'burning me up'. http-equiv3DContent-Type> "
First of all, are you sure that the " heater is20 working?  There will always be some heat to the footwells - remember how20 close the engine is.  If it is then the controls to the air direction20 system may have become disconnected - does moving the lower of the two levers on20 the heater control have any effect at all on air flow ?(suggest have the boost20 fan on full).  If the answer is No then I think you will need to start20 "digging behind the dashboard; if the answer is Yes, then I would suspect " the20 """aftermarket"" valve.
"
My 603S2 sends out lots of hot air to the heater20 "vents, to be balanced by cold air from the ventilation system.  My " a/c20 doesn't work because some bright spark disconnected it - with20 wire-cutters! 
"
Good Luck,
"
David Dearden
"style3D""BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: " "0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px""> " "
----- Original Message -----
" From:20 " " Jan20 Musil
" "
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 " 12:0120 PM
"
Subject: Heater
"

I am a just a little puzzled about the heating20 " system in a 603E. It is possible to get some heat to the footwell, but " only20 cold air to the windscreen and face. The instruction manual dampens20 expectations by stating that 'an even flow from each nozle or duct is not to20 be expected'. 
Can anybody give me an indication of what I20 " can reasonably expect from the heater, because at present it seems20 " inadequate.
"
ps, there is an aftermarket valve " in the20 engine bay for summer and winter use to prevent engine overheating. I cannot20 " work out which way is on or off, and it does not seem to make any " difference20 to the engine temp. or heater temp. anyway. 
I must lead a very boring life to worry about20 " such things, but curiosity is 'burning me20 " "Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:03:21 +0000 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: 603 Heater Importance: Normal "I've had mine for only a week so am not an expert, but I can certainly " confirm that hot air is supposed to come out of the windscreen vents as well "as the footwell, and in my car it does! " "As you probably know, the 4 eyeballs in the dash dispense cold air only. " "Can't help on the after-market switch in the engine compartment, I'm afraid. " http-equiv3DContent-Type> class3D460205500-24032000>I've20 "had mine for only a week so am not an expert, but I can certainly " confirm that20 hot air is supposed to come out of the windscreen vents as well as the "footwell,20 " and in my car it does!
class3D460205500-24032000>  class3D460205500-24032000>As you20 "probably know, the 4 eyeballs in the dash dispense cold air20 " only. class3D460205500-24032000>  class3D460205500-24032000>Can't20 "help on the after-market switch in the engine compartment, I'm20 " afraid. "Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:38:59 -0500 (EST) " From: BristolSRT@aol.com Subject: Re: Remote Gear Change I would palce a call to Brian May in the UK for the source of these parts. He is located in Birmingham and can be found in the registry of the BOC. regards Shawn Thomas "Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:17:45 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Avon safety wheels (2) Thanks to all who replied re my query on this subject. It would seem however that they were not produced before 1970 which is the only way I can avoid paying import tax and "duty totalling 37%, even though the wheels are second hand ! " "Re history on these wheels, I am relying on the book ""The Private Car"" which says the " "wheels were first tested by Mr Sevier, but having done so only at 70 mph 'emerged from " the trial with his equanimity undisturbed'. So Mr Crook then tested the wheels at RAF "Keeble, exploding a tyre at approx 144 mph. According to Mr Setright, who was invited " to "the RAF Keeble test, both tests were conducted in a 411 although he doesn't say which " series. Apparently as a result of Mr Crook's test many customers were keen to specify Avon safety wheels when ordering their 411 Series 5's. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 24/03/00 at 11:52:36 PM "
" " Thanks to all who replied re my query on this subject.  It would seem however that they were not produced before 1970 which is the only way I can avoid paying import tax and duty totalling " 37%, even though the wheels are second hand ! " "Re history on these wheels, I am relying on the book ""The Private " " Car"" which says the wheels were first tested by Mr Sevier, but " having done so only at 70 mph 'emerged from the trial with his equanimity undisturbed'. So Mr Crook then tested the wheels at " RAF Keeble, exploding a tyre at approx 144 mph.  According " " to Mr Setright, who was invited to the RAF Keeble test, both " tests were conducted in a 411 although he doesn't say which series.  Apparently as a result of Mr Crook's test many customers were keen to specify Avon safety wheels when ordering their 411 Series 5's. "Regards, " Kevin Howard
"-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 24/03/00 at 11:52:36 " PM
--24138773-- "Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:07:07 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: 411 S5 air con retro fit For those who may be interested I have recently had fitted air conditioning to my 411 Series 5 (it gets very hot in Australia!) and an ingenious design by a local Jaguar restorer resulted in a very elegant solution. I believe the same solution could be used in most V8 Bristols. Rather than fitting an under dash unit we used a reverse cycle heat exchanger unit from America which provides heating as well as cooling. This means we were able to remove the original heater box and blower and the air con unit was installed in the same space under the vinyl cover. Some ducting was fabricated from fibreglass so we could use all of the original vents. The condenser sits out of site in front of the original radiator and an additional electric "fan was installed on the back of the radiator to pull the air through, assisting the original " electric fans in front of the radiator. The only visible signs that something is not quite original under the bonnet is the uprated alternator which is sited where the pump for the self leveling suspension used to live (this has been removed) and the compressor which is sited where the original alternator used to live. The pipes to the heat exchanger are concealed in the passenger side front wing. The control switches sit in a small rectangular panel under the dash on the driver's side although I will be looking to see if I can incorporate these into the original dash layout in due course. The result is extremely efficient cooling or heating on demand as soon as the engine is started. My only concern is the possibility of engine overheating because the condenser is located in front of the original radiator. This has been tested on days just over 30 "degrees Celsius and so far so good, (engine temp generally doesn't exceed 90 even in " "traffic), although it hasn't been tested on our hottest days when the mercury reaches 40 " degrees. One of these days I will publish a detailed account of the products used and wiring changes etc. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 03/25/2000 at 9:03:55 PM " *REM: Attachments are _NOT_ allowed in this facility - please switch them off "Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:18:59 +0100 " From: Jan Musil Subject: 603 heater Thank you for your advice re. heater. The aftermarket engine cooling system valve seems to make a big difference to the volume of heat in the "footwell and to one side of the windscreen. It all seems to work, in a " limited way. I guess this is what gives the car 'character'.20 N.B.; A Duplicate HTML version has been removed. Please _do not!_ send attachements with corresponcence to Forum. Postmaster@boc.net "Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:15:12 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express I have several times been asked when I say get rid of attachments... But HOW _DO_ I get rid of attachments to Mail? Well I've consulted 'argonet.pc.assist' and here is the answer given. 1. Run Outlook Express "2. Go to the 'Tools' menu, " 3. Select 'Options' "4. In the window that appears, select the 'Send' tab " (2nd from left) 5. In the 'Mail sending format' section Choose 'Plain Text' 6. Then click 'Apply' 7. and then 'OK' "You can do the same thing for News, " but News is configured as Plain Text "by default, whereas Mail isn't. " So no more excuses. Erm... and _No More attachments_ please. "Thanks in anticipation, " Hope this helps. Bob Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:19:31 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: 411 wheel nuts Does anyone know for sure what the thread size is on 411 wheel nuts ? "Particularly series 3,4 & 5 if they differ from the earlier series. I 'think' they are 5/8 UNF. " I am about to get some quotes to manufacture some wheel nuts in stainless steel for use with the Avon safety wheels. If you may be interested in purchasing a set subject to the price being reasonable please let me know. The original chromed nuts are no longer available from Bristol and they are now offering stainless nuts at 20 pounds each. I thought it would be worth shopping around to see if they can be made cheaper. Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 03/30/2000 at 6:15:07 PM " "Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:17:03 +0100 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: RE: 411 wheel nuts Importance: Normal Remember that wheel nuts have to be high tensile steel and that is why "stainless is often expensive - choose an aero-grade steel. In my view, " "given the loading that they carry and their impact on safety, £20 is " worthwhile. Regards Ian > -----Original Message----- > From: Forum@boc.net [mailto:Forum@boc.net]On Behalf Of Kevin Howard "> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 10:20 AM " > To: forum@boc.net > Subject: 411 wheel nuts > Does anyone know for sure what the thread size is on 411 wheel nuts ? "> Particularly series 3,4 & 5 if they differ from the earlier " > series. I 'think' they are 5/8 UNF. > I am about to get some quotes to manufacture some wheel nuts > in stainless steel for use with the Avon safety wheels. If > you may be interested in > purchasing a set subject to the price being reasonable please > let me know. > The original chromed nuts are no longer available from > Bristol and they are now offering stainless nuts at 20 pounds > each. I thought it would be worth > shopping around to see if they can be made cheaper. > Kevin Howard "> -- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 03/30/2000 at 6:15:07 PM " "Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:39:40 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: 411 wheel nuts christ yes " via smap (V4.2) id xma015746; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:23:45 -0500 " nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.4 (830.2 3-23-1999)) "Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:23:30 +0100 " From: Andersen Y Cheng Subject: Rear Stability of 404 I have a 404 under ground-up restoration at present. As a number of Bristol scholars such as Leonard Setright have commented on the "rear stability of the 404 before, attributable to the shorter wheelbase and the " steeper roll axis; we are looking at ways to improve it. A number of suggestions are being considered: 1. Lowering the suspension. 2. Putting on lower profile crossply tyres instead of radials. 3. Creating side vents to let out the air trapped in the bonnet in order to reduce the uplift in the front. "4. Creating a small opening below the rear bumper to let the trapped air out, " and welding an invisible spoiler inside to create more downforce. "I know 1, 2 and 3 have been tried before and I am wondering if anyone knows if 4 " "works. If so, what should the shape/dimensions of the opening and the tilt of " the spoiler be? I suspect the old Porsche 356 would have suffered from a "similar problem as the back is similar without a large 911 type spoiler, but I " don't seem to see this causing concerns in the Porsche circle. Our overall objective is to increase stability without spoiling the overall appearance of such a beautiful car! "Thank you & regards, " Andersen Cheng "Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 15:18:38 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Rear Stability of 404 could ask Jon Winding Sorensen who has explored wind tunnel mods for the same reason. In good company ; see Audi's recent problems with the TT..STEFAN cEMBROWICZ. " Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:37:58 +0100 " "Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:37:32 +0100 " From: Stephen Wall Subject: Re: Rear Stability of 404 My advise is the old cliche - """slow in - fast out"" " The changes you mentioned may well delay the point at which the car kicks "out the back end, but when it goes, you will be travelling faster than " otherwise- as will the wall you will be spinning towards! "I tried lower profile, radial tyres on a 405 and although in certain " "aspects the car was improved, the increased grip meant that instead of " "sliding, the back end snapped away pretty uncontrollably.20 " "All the best in your restoration attempts, " "Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:49:15 +0000 (GMT) " From: Webmaster Subject: BOC NetNews 22 A brief report this time just to advise sketch details of events occurring during the Summer months have been added to the 'events' page of the website. Those of you on Forum will have noted that coincident to my machine's problems the Stock Exchange Computer decided to throw in its own "towel. As a partial believer in fate and the power 3, it leads me to " wonder who or what is next? Apart that is from Bill Gates who now apparently moans after he has "at long last been called to explain to the Federal Government, _not_ " "why his computers and software break down so much, _nor_ even by how " much his own and his company shareholders Billions of worth went down "the drain on Tuesday, *** but to explain how he can justify his " "company's 'modus operandi', when faced with enterprise from any " quarter... Despite the fact that 'punitive fiscal measures' against his company (it is reported) have not yet even been considered... He has announced he is appealing before they are set... Maybe after all he has second sight too!8.() The Scottish Section (which I dont mention often) awoke from hibernation and held a Luncheon meeting at the 'Lade Inn' just North of Callander during March. Which was by accounts well attended and allowed some newer members to be greeted into the Clan. Details of further meets will be available from Keith Bell. BOC Scottish Area Secy.. Wessex Section have submitted a draft itinerary of their visits and that will be added hopefully later this evening. Some interesting venues. For further information Contact - Chris. Reynolds. "Hester Oey, kindly sent me a copy of the magazine article included in " Tirage LimitE9 1/2000 it is I believe still available in Northern "Europe for 9.20 Euro, and has an illustrated treatise (in 3 " languages) on the ownership and enjoyment of driving the Bristol Car be it 6 or 8 cylinder version. Without the Internet contact and our Web Site I doubt this would have happened. My thanks go to those members in Holland and Germany who assisted the venture. Cars featured in image were Type 403 - DL-37-11 and Type 405 D -301 CMG. A joint gathering with the Frazer Nash Club is mooted to be held over 3 days at Coys Historic gathering at Silverstone. The venue for the Concourse will once more be Brooklands Museum and Trust. A facility to please all who attend. Lots to see and do - if you have not been before. No doubt more progress to be viewed on 'R for Robert' the WW2 aircraft dragged out of Loch Ness if you have. ...and so once more enjoying some Bright Sunshine after a few days of the tail of Winter's Snow and Frost - this edition goes to bed. "cheers, " Bob Charlton * Webmaster@boc.net * http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 04:01 +0100 (PDT) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: 411 S5 air con retro fit "Kevin, " I am very interested in your air con system. Could I encourage you to send me details so I can publish them in the Bulletin. Thanks. Anyone else any comments on air con in Bristols. "regards, " Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor BullEd@boc.net "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " "Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 07:43:18 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express Thank you fo the information Bob. If you are using Windows Outlook Express the following may be easier ; " Select address book, new contact, " put a tick in the small white box in the L.H.bottom Press O.K. The post master will be for ever happy. Derek Hughes -----Original Message----- From: Bob Charlton Date: 28 March 2000 21:43 Subject: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express >I have several times been asked when I say get rid of attachments... >But HOW _DO_ I get rid of attachments to Mail? >Well I've consulted 'argonet.pc.assist' and here is the answer given. >1. Run Outlook Express ">2. Go to the 'Tools' menu, " >3. Select 'Options' ">4. In the window that appears, select the 'Send' tab " > (2nd from left) >5. In the 'Mail sending format' section > Choose 'Plain Text' >6. Then click 'Apply' >7. and then 'OK' ">You can do the same thing for News, " >but News is configured as Plain Text ">by default, whereas Mail isn't. " >So no more excuses. Erm... and _No More attachments_ please. ">Thanks in anticipation, " >Hope this helps. >Bob >Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:02:58 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: A quieter and less stressed 2/2.2 ltr Engine. Is there any member who has a 400 - 404 and would like his engine to "be less stessed, quieter at cruising speed and save fuel, but does not " want to cut the chassis and fit the 405 overdrive. This also applies to any car that has Bristol or Borge Warner gearbox such as ; i) B M W 327 and 328. ii) Cooper Bristols . iii) A .C Bristol engined cars. iv) Frazer Nash. v) Any other Bristol engined car. If you are interested come to the A.G M on the 16th April 2000 and view "all the parts on display, this will enable you to carry out the " modifcation quite easily. Alternatively contact me for more details. 20 "Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 10:38:28 +0100 " From: Mail Delivery System Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender ReSent-From: Bob Charlton ReSent-To: Distribution List Is there any member who has a 400 - 404 and would like his engine to "be less stessed, quieter at cruising speed and save fuel, but does not " want to cut the chassis and fit the 405 overdrive. This also applies to any car that has Bristol or Borge Warner gearbox such as ; i) B M W 327 and 328. ii) Cooper Bristols . iii) A .C Bristol engined cars. iv) Frazer Nash. v) Any other Bristol engined car. If you are interested come to the A.G M on the 16th April 2000 and view "all the parts on display, this will enable you to carry out the " modifcation quite easily. Alternatively contact me for more details. 20 The address typed in was also incorrect the mailer requires Forum not FOrum] "Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 07:09:12 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: A quieter and less stressed 2/2.2 ltr Engine. how much does it cost///?Stefan "Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:35 +0100 (PDT) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: 411 S5 air con retro fit Cc: BullEd@boc.net "Kevin, " many thanks for the offer of an article for the bulletin. If you came to the AGM I would buy you a drink! Anyone else out there want to contribute!!!! As per the last newsletter a free drink for all who bring something publishable to the AGM. Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor BullEd@boc.net "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " "Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 17:27:44 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Any Better. Hi Bob. How is this now??. Derek. "Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:22:49 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: A quieter and less stressed 2/2.2 ltr Engine. Hi Stefan. Opologies for the delay in responding but I had to get rid of my attachments.!! "How much does it cost? what , the engine or the overdrive? " "If we consider the overdrive and forget the engine, then the total cost for " "a complete set of parts is between £1075 to £1200 and goes down, depending " "upon what you want to supply. The installation is very simple, you should " be able to do ?? in about 10/15 hours NO modifcations to the chassis or gearbox required. The package includes a detailed installation and service manual. "If you are still interested. please send me details of your car, is it the " "400? Reg No, year of manufacture, chassis No, engine B.H.P, type of " "gearbox, d[ff ratio and tyre size if not standard, telephone No and home " address. I will then prepare definitive cost and scope of supply. By the way have you made and fitted the starting handle tube?. Derek. -----Original Message----- From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Date: 07 April 2000 16:03 Subject: Re: A quieter and less stressed 2/2.2 ltr Engine. >how much does it cost///?Stefan Forum "Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 00:25:14 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: De - Stresed 2/2.2 ltre Engine in O/D. Hi Anderson. Opologies for late respone. " I just love your lyric, ' I was told there was a new device which " plugged into the backend of the gearbox ( about A3300) but it would not be easy to fit. 20 "My mind conjurs up many things, but I thinks of a plug on the end of " "the cable for the kettle which I push into the wall socket, sums up how " easy it is to fit the Laycock 'J' type overdrive - it is not that easy "but nearly. If you can make a cup of tea and have Basic Hons,.in DIY " Mechanics then you can fit my overdrive design onto the end of the "gearbox, after removing the extension housing and gearbox main output " shaft of course.. The latter can be quite difficult if you do not have a copy of my manual 20 20 I am told the Bristol 405 type 'A' overdrive installed as a retro-fit costs about A35000. The one you refer to above I think was designed by "a member of the A.C club and now sold by Mike Robinson, this is very " difficult to install since you have to cut the gearbox driving cup spline with an angle grinder ( good grief) and cut out the chassis cross member and then weld it back together. The cost of the O/D bits I "believe were A3300/350 for the adapter plate and shaft, plus A3350 for " "the overdrive then all the cost for cutting and welding, propshaft, " speedo cable modifications and electics. This design is very difficut "to install and if you cannot weld like me, then impossible . TOTAL " COST?? Insurance validity?? 20 It is easier to install the overdrive during the restoration of the 404 and indeed any car if the seats and engine / gearbox are out since access is much better. However it is a simple job to fit the overdrive "with the engine in situ, since there are no modification to the chassis " or gearbox. The gearbox adapter castig sits on the existing gearbox rubber mountings and the overdrive fits behind the chassis cross member with the drive flange in approximatly the same position as the original. The design also allows you to revert back to the original specification should the purist so desire. I have not sold a overdrive kit for a 404 but 14 have been supplied to "members for Bristol 400, 401 (early model) 403 and a BMW 327- 1938. I " do'nt envisage any problems on the 404 but dicussions with you would "clarify this. I know 3 of these units are on the road, but feedback is " "slow, Ken Bayliss drove his 401 to the AGM and his comments on the " overdrive were nice to hear.20 "The overdrive kit comprises ; gearbox adaptor casting, new G/B main " "output shaft,overdrive unit (ratios 27%, 25%, and special at 22%), " "electric control box and switch, installation manual all gaskets and oil " seals with options on the propshaft and speedo cable. If you wish I can supply everything for you but Iam not running a buisiness it is purely a "hobby, so you could provide a second overdrive, modified propshaft and " "speedo cable all to my specifcation and dimensions, my article in " Bulletin 116 gives suitable donars. I would give you maximum support to get it right first time. 20 Stefan on this subject. If you wish to discuss anything with me then please telephone 01642 654328 ( in England of course) or follow instructions given to Stefan if you want more details. 20 Regards Derek "Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:43:15 +0100 " From: jenniferjones Subject: Re: Postmaster References: "Dear Bob Charlton, " Thank you for your message. None of my books tell me anything about "switching off ""attachments"" so I would be grateful for your instructions. " "Regards, Jenny Jones " ----- Original Message ----- From: Postmaster "Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2000 11:38 AM " Subject: Postmaster > Your request 'SIGNON Forum' has been processed. > Welcome to Forum Jenifer. > Please can I ask you to switch off attachments to your mail messages when > mailing to Forum. Alas it is an unwanted function of Outlook Express > denegrated in many NewsGroups or Mailing Lists. > If you need help to acheive this - I can send a set of instructions provided > by another user of Outlook Express. > Bob Charlton "Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:28:29 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Attachments - HELP In the recent crash I lost mail sadly including the instructions to void attachments with Microsoft Outlook Express... Can some kind soul using the beast please relay that data to Forum for the benefit of Jennifer Jones and other new members who have recently joined. Welcome Jennifer. Bob Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:56:27 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express -----Original Message----- From: Derek Hughes Date: 07 April 2000 10:36 Subject: Re: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express > Thank you fo the information Bob. > If you are using Windows Outlook Express the following may be easier ; "> Select address book, " "> new contact, " > put a tick in the small white box in the L.H.bottom > Press O.K. > The post master will be for ever happy. > Derek Hughes He will if you remember > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Charlton > To: Distribution List > Date: 28 March 2000 21:43 > Subject: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express > > I have several times been asked when I say get rid of attachments... > > But HOW _DO_ I get rid of attachments to Mail? > > Well I've consulted 'argonet.pc.assist' and here is the answer given. > > 1. Run Outlook Express "> > 2. Go to the 'Tools' menu, " > > 3. Select 'Options' "> > 4. In the window that appears, select the 'Send' tab " > > (2nd from left) > > 5. In the 'Mail sending format' section > > Choose 'Plain Text' > > 6. Then click 'Apply' > > 7. and then 'OK' "> > You can do the same thing for News, " > > but News is configured as Plain Text "> > by default, whereas Mail isn't. " If you have any problems Jennifer there's always someone wiser than me...!:-( "Hope this helps, " Thanks Derek. Bob "Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:16:35 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Herdman Subject: FW: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express Bob Is this the item required? [snip] Yes Thanks. Geoffrey > -----Original Message----- "> From: Bob Charlton [SMTP:Postmaster@boc.net] " "> Sent: 28 March 2000 21:15 " "> To: Distribution List " "> Subject: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express " > I have several times been asked when I say get rid of attachments... > But HOW _DO_ I get rid of attachments to Mail? > Well I've consulted 'argonet.pc.assist' and here is the answer given. > 1. Run Outlook Express "> 2. Go to the '\ools' menu, " > 3. Select 'Options' "> 4. In the window that appears, select the 'Send' tab " > (2nd from left) > 5. In the 'Mail sending format' section > Choose 'Plain Text' > 6. Then click 'Apply' > 7. and then 'OK' "> You can do the same thing for News, " > but News is configured as Plain Text "> by default, whereas Mail isn't. " "cheers, " Bob "Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:23:42 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: A quieter and less stressed 2/2.2 ltr Engine. "Thanks Derek; still pondering the S/H tube, garage is too cold and damp " alas....Stefan "Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:47:20 +0100 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: FW: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express As requested... Cheers Ian "Thanks Ian, to you and others who have provided the instructions. " Life being what it is I fear the need for reiteration will occour fom time to time. /:-\ Though it is not a question of pleasiig the Postmaster. The Group decided quite freely that this was a prime preference. Sadly I understand certain programs will default to the state of sending 'html' duplicates of the mail text. >%-( I mention this because the question was posed by a lurker who has not yet "dipped his quill into the ink to write to the group, but has like a number " of others been enjoying the diversity of discussion. Apparently Apple/Macs default to no attachments and use the select and click from file method of attaching any files to Outlook Express. So there are other more code compliant systems about. That is similar to the select drag and drop over header method that my machine running RISCOSv.4.2 operates. "cheers, " Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 23:08:57 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: NO MORE ! Re: FW: Get rid of HTML Mail attachments with Outlook Express I swear there have been more BOC forum messages broadcast in the last few weeks about avoiding sending email attachments than there have been about cars ! Do these messages have to be sent to everyone in the forum ? Perhaps we could have a page on the BOC web site explaining the "protocol, with instructions relating to the various mail " applications (that we know of!) which by default send attachments. "Regards, " Kevin Howard PS Just because we all like Bristols doesn't mean we all agree on what's the best computer and operating system. Maybe we need a 'sub forum' for the technocrats "On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:47:20 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >As requested... >Cheers >Ian ">Thanks Ian, to you and others who have provided the " instructions. >Life being what it is I fear the need for reiteration will occour >fom time >to time. /:-\ Though it is not a question of pleasiig the Postmaster. >The Group decided quite freely that this was a prime preference. >Sadly I understand certain programs will default to the state of >sending 'html' >duplicates of the mail text. >%-( >I mention this because the question was posed by a lurker who has >not yet ">dipped his quill into the ink to write to the group, but has " like a >number >of others been enjoying the diversity of discussion. >Apparently Apple/Macs default to no attachments and use the select >and click >from file method of attaching any files to Outlook Express. So there >are >other more code compliant systems about. >That is similar to the select drag and drop over header method that >my >machine running RISCOSv.4.2 operates. ">cheers, " >Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: >http://www.boc.net/bristol/ Forum "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 21/04/2000 at 10:24:13 " PM "Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:44:50 +1200 " From: Chris Browne Subject: Changing Forum email address I would like to change the address by which I am subscribed to the list. The postings say how to get off but not how to get back on again. How do I unsubscribe from the old address and subscribe under the address below? "(Kevin, sorry to prolong the non-Bristol posts.) " Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@attglobal.net "Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:48:15 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Changing Forum email address "Chris, " I have had to do the same recently. Simply send Bob Charlton an email directly letting him know your new address - postmaster@boc.net (Bob's address I think) I also had a problem with html attachments to my mail which I sorted out with Bob by emailing him directly. Everyone should be aware that this is an option rather than baring your soul to everyone in the forum. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:44:50 +1200, forum@boc.net wrote: " >I would like to change the address by which I am subscribed to the >list. The >postings say how to get off but not how to get back on again. How do >I >unsubscribe from the old address and subscribe under the address >below? ">(Kevin, sorry to prolong the non-Bristol posts.) " >Chris Browne ">Auckland, New Zealand " >irie@attglobal.net Forum "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 22/04/2000 at 9:39:16 " PM "Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:00:14 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re Overdrive Stefan. "Your comments on the overdrive were very brief, so much so that I didn't see " them. " Is there anyone out there, with experience in selecting the O/D Ratio for a " particular cars or has first hand experience on their car. "Bristol Cars fitted the type 'A' overdrive with a 28% ratio on the 405, " providing an overall ratio 3.28 with a diff ratio of 4.22 : 1. My recommendation using the 'J' type is 25% or 27% depending on the car and "power - weight ratio, diff ratio 3.9:1 and 5.5 by 16"" tyres, this gives 3.12 " and 3.07 respectively. My 400 is O.K with 3.12 but lacks zip when required. This might be the engine??. I am thinking of making a O/D having a 22% ratio which would give a overall ratio of 3.19 and 3.45 respectively for the 3.9 and 4.22 diffs. Any comments?? Derek. "Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:00:14 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re Overdrive Stefan. "Your comments on the overdrive were very brief, so much so that I didn't see " them. " Is there anyone out there, with experience in selecting the O/D Ratio for a " particular cars or has first hand experience on their car. "Bristol Cars fitted the type 'A' overdrive with a 28% ratio on the 405, " providing an overall ratio 3.28 with a diff ratio of 4.22 : 1. My recommendation using the 'J' type is 25% or 27% depending on the car and "power - weight ratio, diff ratio 3.9:1 and 5.5 by 16"" tyres, this gives 3.12 " and 3.07 respectively. My 400 is O.K with 3.12 but lacks zip when required. This might be the engine??. I am thinking of making a O/D having a 22% ratio which would give a overall ratio of 3.19 and 3.45 respectively for the 3.9 and 4.22 diffs. Any comments?? Derek. "Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:01 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Overdrive ratios Cc: BullEd@boc.net "Derek, " I recall a 401 with 85C engine fitted with an A-type overdrive using the "standard back axle ratio, and it was a real dis-appointment. Basically the " "engine just could not pull it in top until you were going over 65mph, and " hence one was always changing in and out which rather defeated the purpose. Stefan on the other hand did the job correctly in my estimation in the 403 "he converted, by fitting the 405 type diff. and a 405 engine. This gave " "benefits in all gears, by basically giving you shorter gearing in the " "intermediate gears, and longer gearing in o/d top. " I actually can see little point in just bolting on an o/d to a STANDARD 85 "engine with standard back axle, but this raises another point to do with " the availability of the 405 type diff. With my Arnolt I considered fitting a higher ratio final drive as an alternative to fitting overdrive which I think would have worked well in a "car with a large rev range and a low weight, but never got around to it. " "One ""problem"" with the sports-type engine is that it is such fun being on " "the cam at around between 3750 to 4500 rpm, that you really don't want to " be lugging it at 2500 to 3500 rpm. I know Peter Hall with his 100D2-engined 404 has said that the o/d in that tends to take the edge "of top-gear performance, as your inclination is to use the o/d as soon as " "you reach suitable speed, and then you do not have the instant zap in top " without changing out of o/d. "So, my recommendation is to look at the whole engine/gearbox/final drive " "equation before changing anything. In general, Bristols got it right first " "time, and you meddle at your own cost. " "regards, " Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " "Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:57:18 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Re Overdrive "well when I had my 403 converted, I first fitted the standard 406 gearbox and " "od unit and then realised I was hopelessly overgeared., the 100 b2 could " "hardly pull top/overdrive at all, and actually lost top speed. I then fitted " a standard 405 crownwheel which reduced the overall ratio down again but made the car v tractable and good fun to drive " Exercise well recommended for going on todays motorways, less engine noise " and better oil pressure and lower oil temp. Some compplexity with the inline gearbox for the speedo I seem to remember. Spencer L-J did all the surgery. Stefan "Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:25:40 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Overdrive Ratios. Andrew. " Your comments are interesting, but it is only to be expected on the 401 " if you have a 28% A type O/D fitted. The owner was rerariously modifying his car when the engine has a Peak torque of 106.8 lbs ft @ 3500 revs. I also know of a 401 with a 25% O/D which performs very well. Owners who have the 'A' type fitted or thinking about it then I would recommend that they fit the 22% unit and not the 28%. This provides a final ratio of:-compares with 3.28 and 3.32 on the 405 and 406 respectively. " Stefan, fitting a 405 engine ( with I presume gearbox) and diff to a 403 " would "be good but, better with the 406. Peak torque 123 lbs ft @3750 rpm and 129 " lbs ft @3000rpm respectively and bigger tyres which helps performance. Again in this instance the 403 would have been very good with a 22% 'A' type O/D. " ""I actually can see little point in just bolting on an O/D to a STANDARD " "85 engine with standard back axle,"" I would be interesting know how your " arrived at this conclusion. Can you clarify please?. Incidentally the 406 diff at 4.27 :1 would be just as good as the 405 diff @ 4.22:1 " The early 400 and 401 cars with 85 engines and 3,9 diff perform very " well with a 25% overdrive. The reason for this is that the Peak torque "(about 100lbs ft, I have no figures for this engine) occurs at 3000rpm just " as in the 406. The overall performance can be improved without changing "major components and the cars true identity is preserved, a 403 with a 405 " power house is a wolf in sheeps clothing. With respect to performance the "engine torque can be increased by higher compression ratio, solex " carburettors and better breathing amongst other things. If you want the boy racer style of driving then an O/D ratio at 22% would give you this. " On your Arnolt, I cannot comment in depth but I think an O/D at 22% " would improve the car on long runs and still retain a sporty feeling along with other benefits. I agree you must look at the car overall and engineer the best solution which is not always utopia and suit everyone because some people want a "racing car on the motorway others want pleasure, peace and quiet and have " "limited funds."" " " ""Bristols got it right first time, and you meddle at you own cost"". " "This is not true, various sutle changes were made to the 406 which improved " the 405 performance for motorway duty and better acceleration in 4th + O/D. "Peak torque @ 3000 rpm instead of 3750 rpm, diff ratio 4,22 changed to 4.27 " "and tyres change from 5.75 to 6.00.wide by 16"" giving an increase in " diameter. """Meddling"" :- I believe there are the 'bodgers' (cuts bits out and fit other " bits in with no care for car which B..C. Ltd engineered and built with great "skill, care and quality), the 'meddlers' they try this bit and that to see " "what happens, and there are many failures. Then there are the 'engineers' " who look "at things overall before doing anything, but generally comes up with a good " compromise. There are other points to clarify but times up. Adrian :- do you think this would be of interest to others as an article if I rounded it off?. Derek. "Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:51:21 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: Towing with a V8 Importance: Normal "Any comments or experience on the wisdom of fitting a towbar to a V8, and " "using it for towing (in this case, a couple of horses)? " "Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:54:48 -0400 (EDT) " From: BristolSRT@aol.com Subject: Re: Overdrive Ratios. " Derek, " What Andrew was saying is largly true. Do consider the changes in the 405 and 406 cars though. I run a 406 myself and can beg to differ on the "performance you speek of. Another topic is tyres, the width of the 575 and " 600 are no more different than the variations of measurements between tyre manufacturers. Often people fit slightly taller tyres to gain the advantages "of the OD. This does take away from the initial zip of the car, as if it had " "much to begin with. Good luck on your jurney and remember, V-8's have what " you are looking for without all the hastle. regards Shawn "Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 06:42:10 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Re Overdrive Cc: Adrian Berry Stefan. "I think it is right that one ponders for a while, but two years on the " starting handle tube is a long time. How long is your programme to complete the 400 ??. It must be light years away.!! Your conversion on the 403 by fitting the 406 gearbox and 'A'type O/D @ 28% " engie revs reduction is interesting. Is this another car, see Andrews " email "26 /4 / 2000, he suggest you installed a 405 engine and diff ?. " What made you decide to fit the 406 gearbox +O/D and excluding the diff. The combination would have been a good decision and nearly right first time. Is there some problem fitting the 406 diff that I am not aware of?. The diff ratio in both cars are virtually the same :- 405 / 4.22 and 406 /4.27. If however you had chosen the 405 gearbox your problem would not have been as bad and you could have easily rectified this by changing the "O/D gears, before fitting this, to give a 22% reduction instead of 28%, - " difference 6% Changing diff gives a difference of 8.4%. You could also "improve tractability if you had fitted the 6.00"" tyres which give a larger " "diameter than the 5.75"", maybe you have alreay done this. Why did you fit " the 405 diff?. "The 403 engine / cam is your fundamental problem, in that it produces 105 " bhp @ 5000 rpm and peak torque 117lbs ft @3500 just above the cruising "speeds in O/D, but the 406 is 105 bhp @4700rpm and peak torque of 127 lbs ft " @3000 rpm exactly where you want them to be for an O/D. Maybe the best solution would be to use the 406 camshaft profile in the 403.!! +25% or a 22% O/D for the sporty feeling. What do you think?. I suppose it all depends on what you want and how much you want to spend I guess your modifications would be quite expensive. If you have mechanical skills you can fit the 'J' type O/D "yourself if you wish to, it will certainly be cheaper. " There is no problem in matching the speedometer drive gears from the O/D if you specify the correct worm and drive pinion to suit the speedometer when ordering. A standard combination of gears is available for the Laycock O/D's "to suit the Bristol speedo, but you must get the maths right first time for " all the changes. I hope this helps explain why changing one bit does not always give what you "want. My advice is similar to Andrews, think it through before making any " "major changes, check all implications before bolting a gearbox on to the " "back of the engine, it does not always give the " "desired effect, as you found out, to use Andrews quote ""and you meddle at " your own cost. Here I rest my case. Derek. -----Original Message----- From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Date: 26 April 2000 11:53 Subject: Re: Re Overdrive ">well when I had my 403 converted, I first fitted the standard 406 gearbox " and ">od unit and then realised I was hopelessly overgeared., the 100 b2 could " ">hardly pull top/overdrive at all, and actually lost top speed. I then " fitted >a standard 405 crownwheel which reduced the overall ratio down again but made >the car v tractable and good fun to drive "> Exercise well recommended for going on todays motorways, less engine noise " >and better oil pressure and lower oil temp. Some compplexity with the inline >gearbox for the speedo I seem to remember. Spencer L-J did all the surgery. > Stefan "Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 07:13:01 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Correction. Bob. Please make the following correction to e-mail to Andrew on 30/ 4/ 2000. "first para, 5th line:- ""This provides a final ratio of :- "" insert :- " 3.2 Derek [ I'm sorry I cannot do that. You don't seem to have grasped the fact that this is a Mailing List. I don't alter submissions just remove attachments. If you wish to open discussion with any party then use their Email address. - Postmaster ] "Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:11:47 +0100 " From: roger pugh Subject: Re: Re Overdrive -----Original Message----- From: Derek Hughes Cc: Adrian Berry Date: 02 May 2000 12:41 Subject: Re: Re Overdrive >Is there some problem fitting the 406 diff that I am not aware of?. The >diff ratio in both cars are virtually the same :- 405 / 4.22 and >406 /4.27. If however you had chosen the 405 gearbox your problem would >not The 406 Diff uses a different method of locaton does it not? With a """transvere Watt linkage""to locate it, whatever that is, instead of the A " bracket. Whether this would cause problems i dont know. Also the 406 and "later rear axle's are made, like the Jaguar ones, by Salisbury arn't they? " roger pugh "Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:52:05 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Towing with a V8 "On Mon, 1 May 2000 11:51:21 +0100, cpks@dialstart.net wrote: " >Any comments or experience on the wisdom of fitting a tow bar to a ">V8, and " ">using it for towing (in this case, a couple of horses)? " Well obviously you have a very strong chassis and drive train and the engines in either the 410 or any later Bristol would be more than adequate for towing a two horse box. I wouldn't be so confident about the adequacy of the 409 engine but then the only one I have driven was a bit tired. The braking capacity also needs to be considered. The Girling brakes on the 411 are certainly up to the job of stopping you while towing a "reasonable load, although your horse box may well have its own " brakes. This would be safer but would complicate the interface with the car. Personally I would entrust the job to a reputable firm who is experienced in building and fitting custom tow bars and instruct them to design an elegant solution. Unfortunately the shape of the rear end of the earlier V8 Bristols does lend itself well to concealing a tow bar so I would get them to explain/sketch what it would look like before you go ahead. I recently saw an excellent example of how different firms approach tow bar installations on the same model of new car. One being very elegant while the other solution was truly awful. I would be interested to see what you do as I intend to fit a ttow barto my 411 Series 5. "regards, " Kevin Howard PS Just as well you don't need to fit an overdrive ! ;-) Forum "cpks@dialstart.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 03/05/2000 at 3:24:43 " PM "Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 10:05:33 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Re Overdrive 406 axle completely different to 405 alas. Stefan Disposition-notification-to: Derek Hughes "Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 07:25:03 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Overdrive Ratios. Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <6.555ecc8.263ee6a8@aol.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:54 PM " Subject: Re: Overdrive Ratios. "> Derek, " > What Andrew was saying is largly true. " I probably agree in some areas, but think that if you select the right " parts and ratios you will get good results and benifits on the earlier cars. It is not a wastse of time. >Do consider the changes in the 405 > and 406 cars though. What changes?. " I have no experience in driving these cars, I was suggesting based on " the changes made to the 406 specifcation that it would perfom better than the 405. Do you know if this is the case or otherwise?.. I did not intent "to imply the 406 was a flyer, certainly not with a 28%ratio O/D but that it " would perform be better with a 22% Type O/D unit ">. Another topic is tyres, the width of the 575 and " > 600 are no more different than the variations of measurements between tyre The following standard sizes have always been available here (U.k)and "still are 5.50"", 5.75"" and 600"" by 16"" but not many makers produce them now " I have at my disposal new unflated Avon Tourmasters of the above sizes. " The 5.50 :- measured across the tread 4..25"" " " walls 5.5"" " " O/Diameter 27.5"" " " The 5.75"" tread 4.5"" " " walls 5.7"" " " O/Diameter 27.5"" " " The 600 tread 5.5"" " " walls 6.0"" " " O/diameter 28.5"" " I think you might find when the tyres are fitted on the wheels and inflated you will find a bigger difference in grond clearance as the size goes up. > > regards Derek > > -- "Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 04:01 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Derek Hughes and Overdrive Ratios. Cc: BullEd@boc.net "Derek, " I think you mis-understood me a little. "What I meant about ""Bristol getting it right"" was that, in my opinion, the " drive train for any particular model was well suited to that model at that "time, and hence the 400 gearbox is well matched to the 400 engine and the " 400 axle ratio. Similarly the 405 gearbox and overdrive is well matched to the 405 engine and the 405 axle. You do not necessarily (in my opinion) "improve (say) a 400 with its original engine, by putting on it the " "overdrive for, say, a 405, without also considering engine power and the " rear axle ratio. I fully agree with you that your solution with the J type o/d and varying the ratio to suit the engine should give a good solution to a particular application. If you just want more relaxed top speed touring then put an o/drive on and have fun. If you want better performance through the speed range then you should consider changing the "gearbox and axle as well, but of course this can all get a bit out of " hand. "It is clearly a much better solution to avoid cutting the main chassis, if " "only because the whole installation can be considered reversible, which is " "good from an originality point of view, as well as being much cheaper. " "If, as I hope, I put a 406 engine (and gearbox) in my 400 drophead, then I " "shall certainly be fitting an overdrive of some sort as well, but I will " "also have to improve the brakes possibly by fitting discs, and maybe " change the rear axle because my original is worn out. I think it will "still be a 400, but purists might object! " Hope this makes things clearer. "regards, " Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " "Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 07:28:49 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Re Overdrive Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <000c01bfb461$e2872bc0$684cfea9@rogerpug> Roger. Thanks for the details on the 406 rerar axle. Derek "Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:00:26 -0400 (EDT) " From: BristolSRT@aol.com Subject: Re: Overdrive Ratios. " Hello Derek, " These percentage ratios and stats that you speak of are truelly useless in "this field. You must understand that in Bristols, no two cars are the same " and the behavoir pattern of the mechanicals can differ from one car to another. The search for to end speed will result in the loss of off the line speed. This will not matter if an OD is fitted or not. The reason for this is that you will be driving a gear ratio in the rear axle with less than a 1:1 "input. The motor has no choice in the matter, its like a computer, garbage in " garbage out. I think I would be more inclined to change final drive gears from the many availible gear sets where you can truelly tune in your final ratio. Its a great effort working these numbers as you did but I think you have to put the old calculator away and start from scratch. Get to know some other owners who may have the model you do and see if you can drive them. On "one last note, you must remember that these peak torque and hoursepower " numbers are taked in regards to where the engine performs best. This is not "the bible, you must be concerned with all the other power band and in some " cases lack there of. It will be highly unusual if you could always keep the car in a power band when useing. Good Luck Shawn Thomas "Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:49:20 +0100 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Seem to have been missed off the net [ not any more it isn't - Postmaster ] "I did register some time ago, however, now that it is running I seem to " have been missed off the net20 I look forward to joining in on future topics. My regards Alan Blackwood [ See separate letter on its way Alan. Bob ] " Thu, May 25 2000 15:10:13 +1000 " "Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:10:08 +1000 " From: David Mabberley Subject: 411 HUBCAPS I have imported my 411 ser 2 to Australia but the UK-salted hubcaps are irreparable. Does anyone know whether they were 'lifted' from another "marque or what are the nearest subs, please? " Thanks from The Bush "David Mabberley (Member BOC UK, BOC Australia) " "Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:31:13 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 411 HUBCAPS "David, " I have a new set which I bought at the UK BOC Concours last " year, " but have since imported a secondhand set of Avon safety wheels which I prefer over the steel wheels (I have a 411 S5). Although I am a bit of a hoarder I may as well sell the hub caps. I also have a set of new centre badges which I bought from Bristol Cars. I am in Melbourne so you can contact me 0418 587 158 Alternatively my direct email address is khoward@bigpond.net.au "regards, " Kevin Howard "On Thu, 25 May 2000 15:10:08 +1000, forum@boc.net wrote: " >I have imported my 411 ser 2 to Australia but the UK-salted hubcaps >are >irreparable. Does anyone know whether they were 'lifted' from another ">marque or what are the nearest subs, please? " >Thanks from The Bush ">David Mabberley (Member BOC UK, BOC Australia) " Forum "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 26/05/2000 at 7:28:37 " AM "Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:50:41 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Frazer Nash-BMW Help References: <3.0.6.32.20000525151008.007ebc60@192.168.0.1> Hi to all - "This is ""sort of"" related to Bristol things, but my apologies in " advance for the loose connection to this list. I have a friend trying to restore a Frazer Nash-BMW in Phoenix who asked me the following: """...namely the rear shocks. It appears that this car was fitted later on " "with a couple of tubular hydraulic shocks at the rear, fastened to a " "crude cross member welded between the chassis tubes. I believe when new, " "it may have been fitted with ""rotating"" hydraulic dampers at the rear. " "Is there any one that you know that ""we"" could put Lon in touch with to " get the straight skinny on this most interesting motorcar. Lon wants to bring it back to the correct German/FN configuration... Do you know if "there is such a thing as a ""shop"" manual for that car... By the way, the " chassis number is 85.301 and it was exhibited at the '38 Earls Court "Motor Show..."" " Please write to me directly and I'll provide further contacts. Thanks! Bob "Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:30:57 -0700 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: e-mail address change " Bill Watkins , Bob Charlton , " " ""Bob Schmidt(Frazier Nash)"" , " Charles Ebert "Cc: Claude Lewenz , David Jordan , " " Hello Gentlemen, " Please make note of my new e-mail address. I am sorry for the incovenience this may cause. regards Shawn Thomas bristolusa@earthlink.net "Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 13:15:40 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: 2001 trip to Tasmania Can we interest anyone overseas in joining the BOCA rally to Tassy. Further info from me via email or see form below. 20 BOCA 2001 BI-ENNIAL RALLY - TASMANIA. " 6-DAY 3D 15/3/01 - 20/3/01, (Please indicate " " 8-DAY 3D 15/3/01 - 22/3/01, your preference) " 15-DAY 3D 15/3/01 - 29/3/01. ENTRANT: ............................. ADDRESS: ....................................................... POSTCODE: ...... PHONE: .............. FAX/EMAIL: .............. NUMBER IN YOUR GROUP: .............. ACCOMMODATION TYPE: ..................... (Sgle/Dble etc) 6-DAY ITINERARY:-20 " Day 1: Launceston: National Auto Museum, Cataract Gorge. " " Day 2: Beauty Point (Seahorse Aquaculture), Beaconsfield20 " " (Gold Mine Museum), Low Head (Pilot Station). " " Day 3: Hobart: Salamanca Markets, Botanical Gardens.20 " DaF9 4BAA0Hobart: MF4 NelsonACA0MF4 Wellington. A0Richmond. PirateF3' " BaF9 (Tasman Arch, Devil's Kitchen etc). " " Day 5: Port Arthur: Historic Site, Bush Mill Railway. Taranna20 " (Devil Park). " DaF9 6BAA0HobartBAA0""Runnymede""AEA0 RossAEA0(To EasF4 " DevonporF4 A6 Ferry). 8-DAY ITINERARY (Days 1-6 as above):- " Day 6 (cont.): Swansea (Bark Mill), Bicheno (Sea Life Centre). " " Day 7: Pyengana: Falls, Pub, Cheese Factory. Derby (Tin Mine). " " DaF9 8BAA0Lilydale/Lalla (Car Restoration, Vineyard). Launceston: " Upper Tamar Cruise. (To East Devonport & Ferry). 15-Day ITINERARY (Days 1-8 as above):- " Day 8 (cont.): Hadspen: ""Entally"", Carrick (Copper Art Gallery). " " Day 9 : Longford (Woolmer's Estate), Westbury (Pearns' Steam20 " " World, ""White House""), Deloraine (Meander the Meander). " " Day 10: Liena (King Solomon Cave), Gowrie Park (Museum, Mural). " " Sheffield (Murals etc), Eugenana (Gardens, Arboretum). " " Day 11: Penguin (Rookery), Wynyard (Car Collection), Stanley20 " " (The ""Nut"", Historic Venues). " " Day 12: Edith Creek (Gardens), Zeehan (Pioneers' Museum). " " Day 13: Strahan: Full-Day Gordon River Cruise, Local Venues. " QueenstowEEA0(MF4A0 " LyelEC Museum), Murchison (Dam), Tullah (Woodcrafts). " " Day 15: Cradle Mountain, Staverton (""Tasmazia""), Don (Railway " " Museum, Steam Train Ride). To East Devonport & Ferry. " "APPROX. ESTIMATED COSTS (including ferry, accommodation & meals):- 20 " 6-Days: Range from $800-$1600 Sgle/$1200-$2400 Dble. (GST 13NOT13 ) "15-Days: "" "" $1500-$2400 Sgle/$2200-$3800 Dble. 20 " Please return this form A.S.A.P. to:-20 "BOCA RALLY 2001 Committee, Box 384, P.O., Camden, NSW, 2570. 20 " " TEL.: 02 4646 1024 (Bill Russell),20 " or TEL.: 02 9873 2911 / FAX 02 9872 4266 (Geoff. Dowdle). "Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:11:21 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: 603 Hi there! I'm new to this so don't know how to address the Bristol collective. I have just become the proud owner of a 1977 603 which naturally has its problems. Does anyone have any experience of fitting aftermarket wheels and tyres to "these, I'd like something wider to fill out the wheel arches and lower " profile to sharpen things up but don't know what the maximum dimensions "could be. I have heard that Jaguar wheels fit, is this true? " "Also, the electric seats, which did work, don't. I was adjusting one of them " which packed up leaving them both inoperative. Naturally I suspected a fuse but No. 12 is fine as is the separate one in the fuse holder. Is there "another master fuse somewhere?,maybe close to the switches or has a cut-out " switch burnt out? I'm proposing to convert the car to LPG as a friend of mine does the conversions and sells the fuel. This would make the consumption equivalent to 30mpg on a financial basis. Anyone tried this? Any feedback would be appreciated. "Thanks, Nic Raine " "Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 21:00:41 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 603 "Nic, " Brian Marelli at Bristol Cars Service knows exactly which wheels will fit which cars. The wheels for the Blenheim may well fit. I seem to recall Brian suggesting I put those on my 411 when I was talking to him about buying a secondhand set of Avon safety wheels. Although I shudder to think how much a new set of Blenheim wheels would cost from Bristol ! I don't have Brian's number to hand but they will give it to you at the show room. He could probably shed some light on the problem with the seats as well. Can't help on the LPG front. Never heard anyone own up to converting a Bristol to LPG! I am about to fuel inject my 411 which will "result in much better fuel economy (plus better starting, " reliability and probably a bit more power). Should be finished in about six weeks and I will let you know how it turns out if you are interested. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:11:21 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >Hi there! >I'm new to this so don't know how to address the Bristol collective. >I have >just become the proud owner of a 1977 603 which naturally has its >problems. >Does anyone have any experience of fitting aftermarket wheels and >tyres to ">these, I'd like something wider to fill out the wheel arches " and >lower >profile to sharpen things up but don't know what the maximum >dimensions ">could be. I have heard that Jaguar wheels fit, is this true? " ">Also, the electric seats, which did work, don't. I was adjusting " one >of them >which packed up leaving them both inoperative. Naturally I suspected >a fuse >but No. 12 is fine as is the separate one in the fuse holder. Is >there ">another master fuse somewhere?,maybe close to the switches or " has a >cut-out >switch burnt out? >I'm proposing to convert the car to LPG as a friend of mine does the >conversions and sells the fuel. This would make the consumption >equivalent >to 30mpg on a financial basis. Anyone tried this? >Any feedback would be appreciated. ">Thanks, Nic Raine " Forum "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 08/06/2000 at 8:39:10 " PM "Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 14:43:44 +0100 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Tyres for 2 Litre Bristols Do any of the members have any information regarding the supply of 185 SR16 radial tyres for the 2 Litre car. I was the first person to fit radials to my 2 litre and one of the first in the country to use them. This was back in the early 1960's and the results from my experiences were used by the met. police to back up there tests. "The tyres were Pirelli Cintura's later to become Cinturato's, and I have " "been running on them ever since. However, the best price I have found to " date for replacement tyres is A3270 each inc. vat. for the pirelli's and A3188 each inc. vat. "for Avons, this makes a set very expensive indeed, and so I wondered if " any members know of a source of supply at a more down to earth price ? I would be very pleased to hear from any member who may have or know of any. My thanks20 Alan Blackwood >:-[ Attachment removed - Postmaster ] "Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 08:48:49 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: 603 References: Nic - > I'm proposing to convert the car to LPG as a friend of mine does the > conversions and sells the fuel. This would make the consumption equivalent > to 30mpg on a financial basis. Anyone tried this? "I don't have a V-8 Bristol, but do have a ""large"" Imperial with the " "Mopar 440 and therefore uncover some interesting technical factoids, " primarily through an Imperial (car) mailing list (IML). "Last year, I was visited here in California by a Dutch couple, both who " owned Imperials that had been converted to LPG. Thet claimed good "running and fair economy - much better than gasoline, of course. I " could dig up some email addresses for them if you don't turn anything else up. Recently on the IML there was some discussion of fuel injection for the "440. Apparently, Holley makes a fuel injection system that replaces a " carb on a near standard manifold: http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSFI/FMSFI.html The digital Pro-jection of 650 CFM was identified as suitable for the 440 I'm interested in matching the various Bristol V-8* engines - spec for spec - to the similar and more common US and Canadian engines. Please send me an email if this sounds like an interesting project. Bob "*and transmissions - and Jensen, Monterverdi, etc. " "Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:28:16 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: 603 tyres Importance: Normal I was discussing this subject with Spencer yesterday. Fitting the original "205VR15s is very expensive: they are now a ""classic tyre"". You can get them " "as cheaply as UKP130, but I paid UKP160 for one. " Spencer reckons that if you go to 215/15s you have far more choice and good modern tread patterns - better for dealing with rainwater. The originals were 97 profile whereas the new tyres are 90 profile - not a significant "difference as far as gearing/speedo are concerned, apparently. He reported " "getting a good set of Pirelli 90 H 215/15s for under UKP50 each, although " there are plenty of more expensive alternatives. Hope this helps! CPK Smithies "Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:28:15 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: Fitting towbars to Bristol cars Cc: khoward@bigpond.net.au Importance: Normal Spencer Lane-Jones's advice was like Punch's advice to those contemplating marriage. "Lateral force can be handled by attaching the towbar to the chassis, but the " chassis stops a long way forward of the rear mudguard. The problem is that with heavy trailers (especially horses!) there is considerable vertical "force to contend with, and the boot area of the Bristol isn't built to " handle such forces. "Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:28:17 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: 603 seats Importance: Normal Nic Raine reports adjusting his 603's seats and then finding that they stopped responding. "Same here, although some switches still work. I'll be getting Spencer's " outfit to look at the wiring next month. My first suspicion would be badly corroded wiring joints. I've been hit by a whole lot of those. After 20+ years you have to expect this. I suspect that the factor principally to blame is that we've just had about the most persistently humid six months it has been my displeasure to remember. I'll report anything of interest arising from his investigation. "Just as an aside, vaguely related to LPG conversion: my 603 (360 engine) was " until recently the property of our Illustrious Chairman who after many "shenanigans with the original carburation, and fed up with difficulty " "getting it started, eventually had an EFI conversion. Fuel consumption " didn't noticeably improve and starting wasn't much better; and then he "suffered reliability problems. Finally he returned to a carburetter, but " "this time a Carter with a heat-resistant layer below the float chamber, and " the traditional automatic choke. Everything now is fine and he (and I) suspect that the engine has never been so responsive. He reported fuel consumption around 18mpg; I can't corroborate this yet as I've not done "enough miles, but I suspect I will be able to achieve far worse than that! " One modification which he had done and which I'm inclined to endorse was the fitting of a Facit electric fuel pump (of the high-flow variety). CPK Smithies "Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:24:45 +0200 " From: Teb Marius Subject: Re: Tyres for 2 Litre Bristols Organization: World Access References: <000201bfd223$75f2d4c0$c0169fd4@homepc> On Alan 's question about tyres for 2 litres cars I cannot distinguish the difference between 175 and 185 (apart from being 10 that is). I have fitted my 405 out with 'regular' radial 175 R 16 C (Marangoni) which do "very well on the car. I have always thought C stands for commercial, " inclining I should not drive the car to fast. The tyres fit the wheelarches quite well and even at a speed of 90+ they feel comfortable. "Cheers, Teb Marius " "Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:24:59 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: 603 Engines References: CPK - " Finally he returned to a carburetter, but " "> this time a Carter with a heat-resistant layer below the float chamber, and " > the traditional automatic choke. Everything now is fine and he (and I) > suspect that the engine has never been so responsive. He reported fuel > consumption around 18mpg; I can't corroborate this yet as I've not done "> enough miles, but I suspect I will be able to achieve far worse than that! " "Examples like this supply reasons to match up, if possible, the Bristol " "V-8's to US & Canadian engines, so as to benefit from practices learned " """over here"". " The Carter carb with the insulation sounds like a Thermoquad - which saw extensive use here and still provokes strong pro & con opinions. When I "recently checked the Federal Mogul/Carter web site, a few models of the " Thermoquad were still available as NOS. Carter still makes the AFB and Edelbrock also produces it under license. This is a well-known and favored carb for all types of driving One of the last Imperials (81-83) used a proprietary fuel injection system that delivered great gas mileage and performance on the 318 "engine, but was (and still is) very quirky. Many Imperials were " "converted, by the factory, to carbs because of the difficulty of service " "for this unit. However, our on-line Imperial club has amassed extensive " tech info on this unit - not that it has any Bristol application! "All the ""small-block"" Mopar engines (318, 360, 400??) remain highly " regarded in the US. Standard and performance parts and tech tips "abound! There's no reason why any Bristol V-8 should not run as well, " "or better, than any other production engine. " "Bob, Burbank CA " PS And my big block 440 moves my 5300 lb. Imperial very nicely also! "Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:15:40 +0100 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Fitting towbars to Bristol cars 401/2/3 Fitting a towbar to a 401/2/3 is easy! I have had one for 38 yrs.and pulled a two ton boat on a four wheel trailer with no problems. I have mounted a bar ( made from part of an aircraft main spar ) between the two overiders. It is held on two T shaped sections which slide along side the overiders they have two large holes which correspond to the two holes in the "overiders, and take two large close fitting bolts to secure it. The ball " socket is on the centre line of the two holes on the overiders. Unlike the later cars the holes in the overiders were put there for "towing, as there " is no other point to which you can attach a tow line. I hope to be at Brooklands this Autumn and will bring it with me should anyone be interested. [ .html attachment removed - Postmaster ] "Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 04:01 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Tyres for 2 Litre Bristols Cc: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com This is now a big problem. 185 x 16 inch SR radials are not readily "available. The two you quote are the only ones, at very high prices. I " have not been able to find a cheaper source of supply. Even the good old "taxi tyre are difficult to find. If you see any, buy them! " Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:56:25 +1200 " From: Chris Browne Subject: Fuel injection on older V8s "In one respect only, the experience of fitting a Holley digital fuel " injection system (replacing the original Carter 4 barrel) to my 411 series 4 has mirrored that of the Smithies 603. The fuel consumption has not noticeably improved. I would not recommend the modification if it is motivated solely by a desire to improve fuel economy. In all other respects the modification has been a success. The car starts "easily whether hot, warm or cold (although my car did not suffer previously " from starting problems to the extent that others have reported). The major "benefits have been in pick up and general responsiveness, especially to " "small throttle openings, and quietness at cruising speeds with an absence of " carb induction roar. The improvement in these areas over the 4 barrel was quite dramatic. The effect has been both a significant increase in real world performance and a more civilised driving experience. Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@attglobal.net "Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:48:49 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: RE: 603 seats "There are many many different ways to implement an EFI system, " encompassing different levels of sophistication and complexity. "If it is done well, by someone who is really experienced in this " " field, " "with the desired outcome in mind, then it would be difficult for " even the most advanced mechanical carburetor to achieve comparable results. "On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:28:17 +0100, cpks@dialstart.net wrote: " ">Just as an aside, vaguely related to LPG conversion: my 603 (360 " engine) was >until recently the property of our Illustrious Chairman who after many ">shenanigans with the original carburation, and fed up with " difficulty ">getting it started, eventually had an EFI conversion. Fuel " consumption >didn't noticeably improve and starting wasn't much better; and then he >suffered reliability problems. Finally he returned to a " carburetter, but " >this time a Carter with a heat-resistant layer below the float " chamber, and " >the traditional automatic choke. Everything now is fine and he >suspect that the engine has never been so responsive. He reported fuel >consumption around 18mpg; I can't corroborate this yet as I've not done ">enough miles, but I suspect I will be able to achieve far worse " than that! >One modification which he had done and which I'm inclined to endorse was the >fitting of a Facit electric fuel pump (of the high-flow variety). >CPK Smithies "cpks@dialstart.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 11/06/2000 at 8:24:52 " AM "Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:18:00 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Tyres for 2 Litre Bristols Cc: Forum@boc.net References: Andrew - > This is now a big problem. 185 x 16 inch SR radials are not readily "> available. The two you quote are the only ones, at very high prices. I " > have not been able to find a cheaper source of supply. Even the good old "> taxi tyre are difficult to find. If you see any, buy them! " "Coker Tire (coker.com) in Chattanooga, TN lists the Michelin X in 185x16 " for $191.00. Bob "Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:26:26 +0100 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Tyres for 16 inch wheels "I note the findings of Teb and Andrew, regarding Taxi and Marangoni " "tyres, the latter being completely new to me. " "You can still obtain the Taxi tyres which are 175x16 six ply rated, and " "hard as the Hobbs of hell, they work out at about ukp60.The word TAXI is " moulded on the tyre. "However, I have dismissed these on the following grounds. " My tyre supplier states that should I have an accident the car insurer would dismiss the claim on the grounds that the tyres were not suitable for fitting to such a car as the Bristol.The spec. rating is not high enough to match the performance of the car.If this is correct then it would be very foolish to tempt providence. "My thoughts at the moment are, what might be available in America?, as I " "hear rumours that there might be suitable tyres there, anyone know what " is over there?. My thanks. "Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:35:39 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Herdman Subject: Tyres I will whisper this very softly but our ex secretary Brian Cuddigan recently picked up 7 new radials of a suitable size for 2 litres from a chap who was clearing out stock. He aint at home at the moment but address will be found in the Membership List. So far as taxi tyres are concerned; there is a company in London called Taxi "Tyre Service, Tyres & Batteries, who can supply 185 x 16 taxi tyres @ A350 " VAT. Phone no. 020 7243 2373. Geoffrey This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the us e of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The contents are "privileged. Any unauthorised access, disclosure, use or copying is strictl " y prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator. "Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:47:05 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: 2 litre tyres Have equiped the 404 with absolutely excellent set of tyres and have now done about 4000 miles and very happy. A Japanese 4 wheel drive type called FALKEN R/V 175/80 R16 Steel Belt "Radial, they have a good look as the tread pattern is subdued,look right on " the car and give outstanding road holding. Also not expensive. Previously used Michelin Mud and Snow tyres on the 403 which gave good service but were ugly re tread profile. "Have had Pirelli 16"" tyres totally hopeless on the 403 and would not like " to use Taxi type as I am used to occaisonally exceeding the speed limit!!!. Hugh "Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:51:15 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: tyres for 2 litre cars (and early V8s?) Yet more awkward questions..... "Taxis at 70mph+: these do occur sometimes eg on M1, M62 - is BOC (or " cabbies' !) experience that this is beyond the fitness of their footwear? "Do all London-type taxis have 16"" wheels (i.e. FX4, Fairway, TX1, Metrocab) " "? If so then suppliers should be ""plentiful"" in all cities where black cabs " "circulate eg Birmingham, Manchester, Coventry, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Carlisle, " Liverpool ? "Do/did any other makes use 16"" wheels? If supplies of suitable tyres are " "scarce, is it worth liaising with their club(s) ? " Won't Avon oblige? To editors: is this and other topics in the Forum worth collating for the Bulletin or Newsletter? Douglas Wilson. "Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:53:34 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Tyres for 16 inch wheels "did 60,000 Bristol miles on Michelin taxi tyres at all speeds a 2 litre is " "capable of, real grippy radials, but less good in the wet, and the buggers " just wouldnt wear out...Stefan "Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 04:01 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Taxi tyres Cc: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com "Taxi tyres have been fitted to Bristols for at least the last 20 years, " and I really do not believe they are unsafe at speeds that the average 2-litre can maintain. You also see them on Frazer-Nash's and similar. "However, the situation remains that quality 185x16 radial tyres are almost " "impossible to obtain. The models 407 - 409 have a particular problem, as " 175x16 radials are really too small for these cars. The Cinturato was the ideal tyre for these models in my opinion. Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:18:14 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Taxi tyres References: "Taxi Tyres are speed rated up to about 90 Miles Per Hour max., but " not by any means for continuous use at that speed. I have Avon Tourist Cross Ply tyres 5.50 x 16 inch - if I remember correctly - with size suited Taxi inner tubes... similarly rated on my Type 400. They are quite adequate for the light touring use given limits in any case. If there is ANY intention at all on the part of owners of later Bristol Types to maintain speeds in excess of 100mph then Tyres with an HR or greater rating _are alas essential_ ...NOT a preference. The Volkswagon had/has always had large diameter wheels I wonder what they fitted? The wheel diameter was/is extremely large in comparison to its contemporaries. I remember getting stuck in the Tramway tracks in Brussells whilst driving a 1200 Beetle some thirty odd years ago ;-)) Its strange now to see so many new cars fitted with 18 inch diameter wheels and only circa 1.5 inch sidewalls. How do they manage I wonder on our deplorable byeways where potholes are often more than 6 inches deep!#-@ Knew there was good reason I prefer the 'Disco' for daily use... with its Michelin M+S 235/70 R 16 XPG 105 H boots ;-) "rgds., " Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:27:31 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Tyres for 16 inch wheels It seems that the only serious concern regarding the use of taxi tyres is the attitude of the insurance companies in the event of a claim. One would hope there would be insurers who specialise in the classic car market who would make allowances for the fact that tyres matching original specs are no longer available. Surely a call to ones insurers would clarify their position. Of course if they agree to insure your car running on taxi tyres make sure you get it in writing! "On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:53:34 EDT, forum@boc.net wrote: " ">did 60,000 Bristol miles on Michelin taxi tyres at all speeds a " ">capable of, real grippy radials, but less good in the wet, and " the buggers >just wouldnt wear out...Stefan "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 13/06/2000 at 11:13:09 " PM "Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:35:43 +0100 " From: Webmaster Subject: Net News 22 NetNews 22 It seems a while since the last issue which I admit has been due largely to the major reconstruction works in a radius of 6 feet about my long serving computer - since January. Its amazing what you find when a Hard Disc crashes or in my computer's case throws imminent indications of a severe wobbly!!! Everything moves so fast these days. 210mb HardDiscs are replaced with 4Gb units retailing at less than the cost of the original - weird! Pity delivery cannot match orders... but more of this later. Wish Motor Car specs would do the same but it looks like importation will still be the rule for a while yet. I somehow cannot quite see my local supplier dashing to offer me 30% off for the purchase of 1 new 'Fleet' car. Whose fleet he asks with a keen interest?... (:-) Well mine of course I reply innocently o:-| Just before he kicks me out... >:-< Web Site alterations 'Regions' page 'Regrs' page now bear some altered contact details for BOCA representative one defunct Local contact has been removed. 'Forum' page which is within the Service Handbook area of the website has had the instructions to eliminate attachments from Mail messages for those using Outlook Express in its current and earlier forms. For those of you not subscribing to 'Forum' the users require that there be no attachments to mail to this group - though of course such data can be mailed direct if required to a particular address. AsA0an aside the website sustained in excess of 250 hits on the front door last week - I think that is our current record... and proof that our site is quietly being noticed by more and more Surfers. I have tidied up the Events page and at the request of BOCA have added details submitted of their Bi-ennial 'Tasman Tour' which takes place next year and offers a number of options to those who wish to take part. It is open to all members and their cars of all affiliate Clubs. I don't know the places mentioned but clearly there has been a great deal of work done to date. If you wish to join in then pay that section a visit. There is bound to be a limit on accommodation be it Ferry or Hotels. "There are also 3 choices of involvement being 6, 8, or 15 days. " The locations each section will visit are mapped out in some detail with brief notes as applicable. All contact details and an entry form are included. Hope its as great a success as the 'BRoNZ bash' was a couple of years ago. Spare Parts Those of you who followed my recommendation to invest in vol.7 of the Holden Mail Order Motoring Catalogue will be pleased to know that you can now apply for the supplement edtn.7a for the cost of asking. It adds nearly 100 pages updates some of the Cat.No.7 prices and contains many new items. eg.Spares for Lucas item FFT462 are found on page 175. These new items are respectively the Dust Seal and Back Shell for the 401/403 Fog/Pass lamps. 9.00 UKP. and 39.95 UKP. Who says spares are not being made? The trick is knowing where to look. As I explained to someone just the other day. Would that Bristol could offer them all but its just not realistic to expect everything to be available on the shelf. Tyres are a good example being discussed currently on Forum. Though not covered by the Holden Catalogue some early Michelin Radial Tyres preferred by owners of Bristols 404 - 406 are now deemed to be Classic... "As such they are not manufactured automatically, but in batches of " about 250 or less... and when these are sold a new batch will be made only when and if the demand merits it. ...Trouble is the demand and the availability do not always coincide... So alas you have been warned. Don't expect to find the same availability the next time you require these particular items. Mag.Media The disruptions caused by repairing the collateral damage caused by the Master Hard disc crash have occupied quite a lot of my time. So I have had less time to search the usual mags for any Bristol references. I know there has been some lively discussion about Martin Buckley's "article in the March edtn.""Thoroughbred & Classic Car"" drawing fire " from Toby Silverton in April edtn.T&CC and yet continuing into the July edtn.T&CC with contributions from Peter Fawcett and Richard Barnett. If you see anything else which is worthy of note please send me the details and I'll add it to the continuing Bibliography of the 'media' page. Thanks in anticipation. "Meanwhile happy driving, " Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 04:01 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Forum monitoring... "Don't worry, all Forum items are looked at for possible inclusion in the " Bulletin! "Just for interest, Bulletin 118 has just been ""signed off"" and should be " "being printed next week, for distribution as soon as possible after that. " "It is about a month late as far as I am concerned, for various reasons. My " apologies. "Next copy date is the end of August, for appearance in late September " (hopefully). "So, get writing and send the stuff to me! " "regards, " Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:18:31 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: 16 inch Tyres Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services To all who raised the varied comments on 16 inch tyres. In my opinion if a manufacturer specifies a tyre size for a car then a replacement should be fitted having the same specification. If a change is being considered then according to my insurance company they must be informed. This may affect your policy. Do we have anyone in the profession that can confirm this?. "However, those wishing to fit radial tyres the following are available; " " i) Michelin 185 R 16 speed index 92S, " load/tyre 620kg speed rating 180 kph (118mph ) price (via our car club) £165 ii) Firestone 185 R 16 price (via our car club) £165 iii) As item i) from your Kwik Fit Agent £130 All prices inc VAT. I also know someone who has 4 new 185 by 16 Pirelli Centarato's for sale at a price. Happy motoring Derek. "Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 21:23:37 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 603 "Nic, " I was just looking through some photos which I took at last year's BOC concours and I spotted a dark metallic 603 with what look like early XJS wheels. Unfortunately I can't identify the owner of the car but it was parked next to a gold 603 DLW4T. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:11:21 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >Hi there! >I'm new to this so don't know how to address the Bristol collective. I have >just become the proud owner of a 1977 603 which naturally has its problems. >Does anyone have any experience of fitting aftermarket wheels and tyres to ">these, I'd like something wider to fill out the wheel arches and " lower >profile to sharpen things up but don't know what the maximum dimensions ">could be. I have heard that Jaguar wheels fit, is this true? " ">Also, the electric seats, which did work, don't. I was adjusting " one of them >which packed up leaving them both inoperative. Naturally I suspected a fuse >but No. 12 is fine as is the separate one in the fuse holder. Is there ">another master fuse somewhere?,maybe close to the switches or " has a cut-out >switch burnt out? >I'm proposing to convert the car to LPG as a friend of mine does the >conversions and sells the fuel. This would make the consumption equivalent >to 30mpg on a financial basis. Anyone tried this? >Any feedback would be appreciated. ">Thanks, Nic Raine " "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 17/06/2000 at 8:04:26 " PM "Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 13:25:26 +0100 " From: Turplin Dixon Subject: Re: 603 "Nic, " " Very observant of Kevin, the dark metallic 603, belong to Edward " Hathaway in the West Midlands. Contact number is in BOC membership and car list May 2000. Regards Dick (DLW4T) -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Howard Date: 17 June 2000 14:46 Subject: Re: 603 "Nic, " I was just looking through some photos which I took at last year's BOC concours and I spotted a dark metallic 603 with what look like early XJS wheels. Unfortunately I can't identify the owner of the car but it was parked next to a gold 603 DLW4T. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:11:21 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >Hi there! >I'm new to this so don't know how to address the Bristol collective. I have >just become the proud owner of a 1977 603 which naturally has its problems. >Does anyone have any experience of fitting aftermarket wheels and tyres to ">these, I'd like something wider to fill out the wheel arches and lower " >profile to sharpen things up but don't know what the maximum dimensions ">could be. I have heard that Jaguar wheels fit, is this true? " ">Also, the electric seats, which did work, don't. I was adjusting one of " them >which packed up leaving them both inoperative. Naturally I suspected a fuse >but No. 12 is fine as is the separate one in the fuse holder. Is there ">another master fuse somewhere?,maybe close to the switches or has a cut-out " >switch burnt out? >I'm proposing to convert the car to LPG as a friend of mine does the >conversions and sells the fuel. This would make the consumption equivalent >to 30mpg on a financial basis. Anyone tried this? >Any feedback would be appreciated. ">Thanks, Nic Raine " "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 17/06/2000 at 8:04:26 PM " -- "Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 23:54:38 +0100 " From: Mr Clive Foster Subject: Re: 603 Nic According to my wiring diagram there are inline fuses between fuse box and seats. The diagram suggests that the fuse box is merely used as a bus connector with the seats coming off the live (unprotected) side of the fuse. "I think this connection is a permanent live (unswitched), there are several " of these so be careful. I dont know where the inline fuses live and cannot check cos my 603 is in dock for welding. Sorry. If you have electrical problems you should get hold of a set of reprint "wiring diagrams from the club. Bristols, as ever are logical and correct " but do things their way and you wont have a chance without the pretty pictures especially if previous work has been done by people attempting to follow standard car bodging practice. My own 603 has been comprehensively "attacked, so far I have removed about 20 connections and 50 feet of " important looking but totally function free wire and have yet to tackle under the dash where an aftermarket central locking system has produced total chaos. I am slowly producing new versions of the offical 603 diagams on my computer so I can print off copies for scribbling on and eventually figure out how to sort out the mess. If you or anyone else is really stuck and does not want to spoil their good copy I could send my version provided it does not infringe any copyrights or cause other upsets. Clive Foster-- > From: Kevin Howard > Reply-To: khoward@bigpond.net.au "> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 21:23:37 +1000 " > To: > Subject: Re: 603 "> Nic, " > I was just looking through some photos which I took at last year's BOC > concours and I spotted a dark metallic 603 with what look like early XJS > wheels. Unfortunately I can't identify the owner of the car but it was parked > next to a gold 603 DLW4T. "> Regards, " > Kevin Howard "> On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:11:21 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >> Hi there! >> >> I'm new to this so don't know how to address the Bristol collective. I have >> just become the proud owner of a 1977 603 which naturally has its problems. >> Does anyone have any experience of fitting aftermarket wheels and tyres to ">> these, I'd like something wider to fill out the wheel arches and lower " >> profile to sharpen things up but don't know what the maximum dimensions ">> could be. I have heard that Jaguar wheels fit, is this true? " >> ">> Also, the electric seats, which did work, don't. I was adjusting one of them " >> which packed up leaving them both inoperative. Naturally I suspected a fuse >> but No. 12 is fine as is the separate one in the fuse holder. Is there ">> another master fuse somewhere?,maybe close to the switches or has a cut-out " >> switch burnt out? >> >> I'm proposing to convert the car to LPG as a friend of mine does the >> conversions and sells the fuel. This would make the consumption equivalent >> to 30mpg on a financial basis. Anyone tried this? >> >> Any feedback would be appreciated. >> ">> Thanks, Nic Raine " >> >> -- >> To LEAVE Forum send Email and write in 'Subject/Title'? SIGNOFF Forum >> To Post to Forum use the address? Forum@boc.net >> "> forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "> -- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 17/06/2000 at 8:04:26 PM " "Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:38:01 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 603 "Clive, " I don't think Nic will be able to get a reprint at present. I have been waiting on a reprint order for since late last year! I gather from the most recent newsletter that we do not have a Reprint Secretary at present. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 23:54:38 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >Nic >According to my wiring diagram there are inline fuses between >seats.A0 The diagram suggests that the fuse box is merely used as a bus >connector with the seats coming off the live (unprotected) side of the fuse. ">I think this connection is a permanent live (unswitched), there " are several >of these so be careful.A0 I dont know where the inline fuses live and cannot >check cos my 603 is in dock for welding.A0 Sorry. >If you have electrical problems you should get hold of a set of reprint ">wiring diagrams from the club.A0 Bristols, as ever are logical " and correct >but do things their way and you wont have a chance without the pretty >pictures especially if previous work has been done by people attempting to >follow standard car bodging practice.A0 My own 603 has been comprehensively ">attacked, so far I have removed about 20 connections and 50 feet " of >important looking but totally function free wire and have yet to tackle >under the dash where an aftermarket central locking system has produced >total chaos. >I am slowly producing new versions of the offical 603 diagams on my computer >so I can print off copies for scribbling on and eventually figure out how to >sort out the mess.A0 If you or anyone else is really stuck and does not want >to spoil their good copy I could send my version provided it does not >infringe any copyrights or cause other upsets. >Clive Foster-- >>A0From: Kevin Howard >>A0Reply-To: khoward@bigpond.net.au ">>A0Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 21:23:37 +1000 " >>A0To: >>A0Subject: Re: 603 >> ">>A0Nic, " >> >>A0I was just looking through some photos which I took at last year's BOC >>A0concours and I spotted a dark metallic 603 with what look like early XJS >>A0wheels.A0 Unfortunately I can't identify the owner of the car but it was parked >>A0next to a gold 603 DLW4T. >> ">>A0Regards, " >> >>A0Kevin Howard >> ">>A0On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:11:21 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >>>A0Hi there! >>> >>>A0I'm new to this so don't know how to address the Bristol collective. I have >>>A0just become the proud owner of a 1977 603 which naturally has its problems. >>>A0Does anyone have any experience of fitting aftermarket wheels and tyres to ">>>A0these, I'd like something wider to fill out the wheel arches " and lower >>>A0profile to sharpen things up but don't know what the maximum dimensions ">>>A0could be. I have heard that Jaguar wheels fit, is this true? " >>> ">>>A0Also, the electric seats, which did work, don't. I was " adjusting one of them >>>A0which packed up leaving them both inoperative. Naturally I suspected a fuse >>>A0but No. 12 is fine as is the separate one in the fuse holder. Is there ">>>A0another master fuse somewhere?,maybe close to the switches or " has a cut-out >>>A0switch burnt out? >>> >>>A0I'm proposing to convert the car to LPG as a friend of mine does the >>>A0conversions and sells the fuel. This would make the consumption equivalent >>>A0to 30mpg on a financial basis. Anyone tried this? >>> >>>A0Any feedback would be appreciated. >>> ">>>A0Thanks, Nic Raine " >>> >>>A0-- >>>A0To LEAVE Forum send Email and write in 'Subject/Title'? SIGNOFF Forum >>>A0To Post to Forum use the address? Forum@boc.net >>> ">>A0forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " >> ">>A0-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 17/06/2000 at " >> >> >>A0-- >>A0To LEAVE Forum send Email and write in 'Subject/Title'A0 SIGNOFF Forum >>A0To Post to Forum use the addressA0 Forum@boc.net >> "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 19/06/2000 at 10:33:35 " AM " Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:19:31 +0100 " "Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:18:54 +0100 " From: Stephen Wall Subject: Re: 16 inch Tyres Regarding notification to your insurance company when tyre specs are changed........ In theory this is correct but it should have no effect on underwriting or premium. In most cases the insurer wouldn't even notice but in the event of a large claim they may well pull out all the stops to avoid payment. My advice would be to note the use of radial tyres on the proposal form or send a letter/ fax to your broker stating that the tyres have been changed and KEEP A COPY OF THAT LETTER on your history file. Stephen Wall Managing Director - General Insurance The Bollington Group Ltd. Fax:01625 574879 Mail:sw@bollington.com "Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 10:36 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: 603 (and 411) wheels "seen on these cars as replacements for Avon Safety wheels, which some " people do not seem to like. Because a customer actually preferred the Avon "wheels to some chromed XJS wheels on a Beaufighter, I happen to know that " there are a set of 5 of these wheels at Spencer Lanes-Jones Ltd. Contact him directly if anyone is interested. I do not know the price. Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net for "Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:42:50 +0100 " From: Mr Clive Foster Subject: 603 Wiring This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand "this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. " [ I hope it understands attachment removed? Postmaster ] Kevin Howard tells me that reprints are running a bit behind at the moment so if anyone (Nic R?) is absolutely stuck for wiring diagrams on the 603 I am willing to do copies of my redrawn set. So far I have done everything except the Ignition and speed hold circuits. The redraw provides much better scribble space for noting oddities when trying to sort out bodged looms. Note that these drawings are unchecked. As a sometime professional at this type of thing they should be pretty good but perfection is unlikely. Better than nothing anyway. E-mail me direct if you are sufficiently desperate. "No charge for E-mail, stamp & envelope for photocopies, but you must promise " to tell me about any errors. Native format is Claris Works 5 but I can probrably get them across to most programs. Clive ...erm Rule 1: Attachments are not allowed in Forum transmissions Postmaster "Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:30:51 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 603 Wiring References: "In article <49d2e03ff9Postmaster@boc.net>, " Bob Charlton wrote: "In article , " CPK Smithies wrote: > If they could be converted to TIF files perhaps our webmaster would > host Clive Foster's 603 wiring diagrams as a valuable resource for "> club members? Aw, c'mon, Bob! " If I can splice them in I think this sort of thing is a good idea... That is why I shared my 400 wiring diagrams with you through the Bulletin some time ago... Remember?;-) If they won't splice in to 'html' pages they could still be downloaded if saved on the website as .zip archives to be printed locally. "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob "Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:41:55 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 603 Wiring Wiring diagrams would not display well in a Web page format. How about converting them to .pdf and make them downloadable ? If they can be brought into the latest version of MS Word they can then be saved in .pdf format. The Adobe Acrobat viewer is free. In fact if Clive sends me a hard copy I will scan them and send " them back in almost any graphic file format, such as .tif, " "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:30:51 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " ">In article <49d2e03ff9Postmaster@boc.net>, " >A0A0Bob Charlton A0wrote: ">In article , " >A0A0CPK Smithies A0wrote: >>A0If they could be converted to TIF files perhaps our webmaster would >>A0host Clive Foster's 603 wiring diagrams as a valuable resource for ">>A0club members? Aw, c'mon, Bob! " >If I can splice them in I think this sort of thing is a good idea... >That is why I shared my 400 wiring diagrams with you through the >Bulletin some time ago... Remember?;-) >If they won't splice in to 'html' pages they could still be >downloaded if saved on the website as .zip archives to be printed >locally. ">Thanks in anticipation, " >Bob "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 23/06/2000 at 9:34:02 " AM "Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:26:40 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 603 Wiring References: <49d2e09119Postmaster@boc.net> "In article , " CPK Smithies wrote: > Bob: if you can put them wherever you put your .jpg images and "> create hyperlinks to them, again just like the .jpg images, then " > they can be downloaded easily. Yes that's what I thought - but whilst I was aware of the benefit of TIF for diagrams its alien to me coz I use IMHO a superior DRAW file which surprise surprise can be reduced to a TIF file. Via my RiscCad application I ought to be able to import DRAW or TIF files and export DXF files but these do require a Plotter. > TIF tends to be the best format for diagrams - it's smallest if it > uses the right compression. Its certainly less involved than DRAW but the BBC machines have always used that format for diagrams until Artworks produced Xara their version of Coral which is a world standard. "> There is no need to use a web-displayable format (.gif or .jpeg), " > because those very few lucky individuals with a 603 will be quite > content to download and print locally. Thats what I meant by lodging the data to be downloaded as required. "> There is equally no point in using .zip compression: .TIF, if done " "> correctly, will compress optimally for an image. Zip will add " > nothing. I wasn't too clear about this because you'll appreciate I deal in DRAW to TIF conversion very seldom being able to use DRAW files direct. "cheers, Bob " "Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 02:58:21 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: 603 Wiring Importance: Normal If they could be converted to TIF files perhaps our webmaster would host Clive Foster's 603 wiring diagrams as a valuable resource for club members? "Aw, c'mon, Bob! " "Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 01:38:06 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: 603 Wiring Importance: Normal Bob: if you can put them wherever you put your .jpg images and create "hyperlinks to them, again just like the .jpg images, then they can be " downloaded easily. TIF tends to be the best format for diagrams - it's smallest if it uses the right compression. There is no need to use a "web-displayable format (.gif or .jpeg), because those very few lucky " individuals with a 603 will be quite content to download and print locally. "There is equally no point in using .zip compression: .TIF, if done " "correctly, will compress optimally for an image. Zip will add nothing. " CPKS "Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:58:42 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: 603 Wiring References: <49d2e09119Postmaster@boc.net> Bob - "> In article, CPK Smithies wrote: " > > Bob: if you can put them wherever you put your .jpg images and "> > create hyperlinks to them, again just like the .jpg images, then " > > they can be downloaded easily. The pros & cons of graphic file formats are probably beyond the scope of "this forum, but I thought I'd add what I've learned by my mistakes: " "1. Graphics files are first divided into ""bitmap"" and ""vector"" formats. " Bitmaps are always just a bunch of dots and don't scale well; vector "formats (CAD files, maybe Draw & pdf) are the math descriptions of how " "lines & curves are drawn and would be perfect for wiring diagrams, " except they normally cannot be displayed on web pages and programs that can view or print them are less common. "2. So nearly everything you see on the Internet is a bitmap. There's a " "further division of bitmaps into files which are compressed ""lossy"" and " "those that are ""loss-less"". And normally, you NEED compression to keep " files to a reasonable size for viewing or downloading. JPG & GIF files "are ""lossy"" - everytime they are opened & saved, something is changed " "(and not improved!). TIF files are ""loss-less"" even when compressed and " "are recommended for creating your ""base"" file for further work. " "Unfortunately, you can only display JPG & GIF files on Internet web " pages. "3. A further consideration is resolution. Your monitor only displays " "100 dpi (Macs are slightly different), but high quality printing and " "scanning should be 300 dpi or greater, thus implying you may want two " resolutions for a wiring diagram - one to display for casual reference and one to print and archive. "4. Finally, how big should a file be for display or printing? I wish I " knew - this depends on what resolution viewers have set their displays for - 600x800 seems common & safe. So if you want a wiring diagram to "fill a screen, without panning, it should probably be a GIF or JPG, 100 " "dpi resolution, 800x600, or thereabouts. " "For printing, consider using a downloadable TIF, as has been " "recommended, at 300 dpi, at the same size as was scanned. Even if two " "or more sheets are needed for printing, this may be better than " squinting! "I have an ""advertising blueprint"" for a '65 Imperial (we all know Mopar " "engines, right) on my web site that can be ""previewed"" quickly by a low " resolution GIF and downloaded in a large (1.5 MB) TIF. If you are "curious, it's on: " http://teamchicago.com/imperial/ "When I have the time & software, I'd like to convert it to a vector " format to make a nice wall mural! Bob "PS. Yes, my photo files are too big & take too long to display! This " "music, however, is British! " "Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:28:12 +0100 " From: Mr Clive Foster Subject: Re: 603 Wiring Gentlemen "Looks like I had better extract digit and get the last three sheets done, " "take about a week or two. Checking the masters, I am short of the sheet " covering seat forward/back & up/down power circuits so that will have to wait until my car comes back to do it from life. I am a bit dubious about putting unchecked drawings out for direct download. "I would prefer to know where each copy has gone so that errors, ommissions " or year on year changes can be notified to all copy owners. Any ideas how 1 can do the tracking via the boc server. Not fair to give Bob another job and I need to do the editing. Please remember that the only way to check a wiring diagram is to assemble the thing from the picture and even that is not cetain to catch all the errors. "I think PDF (Acrobat) format will be best, TIFFs are not trustworthy for " mixed text & lines especially given the way Microsloth (I have always used a Mac) stuff handles the display. Claris Works takes a few liberties with how it displays things with vector/bit map mixes in unexpected places so we do need a rock solid transfer. Next time I will use a proper CAD instead of using the job to indulge my curiosity as to how well CW handles this sort of thing. Clive Foster > From: Bob Charlton > Reply-To: Forum@boc.net "> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:26:40 +0100 " > To: Distribution List > Subject: Re: 603 Wiring "> In article , " > CPK Smithies wrote: >> Bob: if you can put them wherever you put your .jpg images and ">> create hyperlinks to them, again just like the .jpg images, then " >> they can be downloaded easily. > Yes that's what I thought - but whilst I was aware of the benefit of > TIF for diagrams its alien to me coz I use IMHO a superior DRAW file > which surprise surprise can be reduced to a TIF file. > Via my RiscCad application I ought to be able to import DRAW or TIF > files and export DXF files but these do require a Plotter. >> TIF tends to be the best format for diagrams - it's smallest if it >> uses the right compression. > Its certainly less involved than DRAW but the BBC machines have > always used that format for diagrams until Artworks produced Xara > their version of Coral which is a world standard. ">> There is no need to use a web-displayable format (.gif or .jpeg), " >> because those very few lucky individuals with a 603 will be quite >> content to download and print locally. > Thats what I meant by lodging the data to be downloaded as required. ">> There is equally no point in using .zip compression: .TIF, if done " ">> correctly, will compress optimally for an image. Zip will add " >> nothing. > I wasn't too clear about this because you'll appreciate I deal in > DRAW to TIF conversion very seldom being able to use DRAW files > direct. "> cheers, Bob " "Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 03:16:41 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 603 Wiring References: <49d2e09119Postmaster@boc.net> "In article <39539742.7CAF@pacbell.net>, " Bob Schmitt wrote: I think this is as valid as the discussion on the 'merits of wheel nut specification'. Because the end result will still benefit all subscribers to both Forum and the Club Area of the website. Though the latter is is also available to all subscribers to Forum at http://www.boc.net/bristol/service.html "> 1. Graphics files are first divided into ""bitmap"" and ""vector"" " > formats. Bitmaps are always just a bunch of dots and don't scale "> well; vector formats (CAD files, maybe Draw & pdf) are the math " > descriptions of how lines & curves are drawn and would be perfect "> for wiring diagrams, except they normally cannot be displayed on " > web pages and programs that can view or print them are less common. The DRAW file is vector as you surmise as are base ARTWORKS files equivalent to lower order (Corel Xara). Though Xara does much more than Artworks. In fact I drew the Bristol Badge on the Home Page of the website with Artworks exported it as a SPRITE file (another one alien to PC users because it uses a colour base of 256 colours instead of the 216 base is it the PC software uses). The other reason was to eliminate the masks and layers used in Artworks. I then used John Kortinks freeware translator to produce a progressive GIF file because this suited the minimal colour range and the compression I wanted to speed up the loading of the image. Not too important to high order graphics orientated PC machines but welcome to us users of slower modems and smaller storage/memrory capacity machines. "> 2. So nearly everything you see on the Internet is a bitmap. " > There's a further division of bitmaps into files which are "> compressed ""lossy"" and those that are ""loss-less"". And normally, " > you NEED compression to keep files to a reasonable size for viewing > or downloading. Quite! "> JPG & GIF files are ""lossy"" - everytime they are opened & saved, " > something is changed (and not improved!). TIF files are "> ""loss-less"" even when compressed and are recommended for creating " "> your ""base"" file for further work. Unfortunately, you can only " > display JPG & GIF files on Internet web pages. TIF would seem to be the more universal readable vector file and because it is lossless to be preferred to JPG or gif files or their equivalents... "> 3. A further consideration is resolution. Your monitor only " "> displays 100 dpi (Macs are slightly different), but high quality " "> printing and scanning should be 300 dpi or greater, thus implying " > you may want two resolutions for a wiring diagram - one to display > for casual reference and one to print and archive. I usually scan 6x4inch prints at 90 dpi for the simple reason the human eye cannot discern much difference on the average TV or Monitor Screen unless the display of colours is pushed up into the millions at which point the image will start to appear to vibrate. Usually the fault of the poorer screen pixel refresh rates. "> 4. Finally, how big should a file be for display or printing? " Ideally big enough to be stuck on the Garage wall whilst you are working on the car some 6 feet away... But I found to acheive this with the harness diagrams of the 2 litre cars from the handbooks I had to use the services of an industrial "camera set on its own 18"" railway lines which could then produce a " film positive to A0 size. This can only produce equivalent duplicates on Industrial Copiers capable of producing contact or full A0 size prints. "> For printing, consider using a downloadable TIF, as has been " "> recommended, at 300 dpi, at the same size as was scanned. Even if " "> two or more sheets are needed for printing, this may be better than " > squinting! I would normally scan at about 180dpi and aim at a maximum printed size of A3 since most members will like me have a printer capable of printing an A4 page. Thus the choice is print at half size to A4 or join two pages together forming A3. A higher resolution however such as suggested at about 300_dots_per_inch would allow a good quality A4 copy to be blown easily to a readable A2 or even A1 size print without much bluring. There are always limits. Most photocopy agency Shops or Libraries can manage to offer size A3 Larger sizes would require a visit to a Designer or Architectural printing establishment or a friendly studio with its own printer. Remember the golden rule... Dyeline copies should not be exposed to "direct sunlight, for prolonged periods and they will still fade away " eventually. "Hope this helps, " Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:03:47 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson "Subject: RE: (603 Wiring) the problems of a ""forum"" " "Cc: ""'forum@boc.net'"" " Am I alone in the following opinion? I don't wish to stifle conversation but ..... the extended discussion about the intricacies of computer systems "and their ability to store and display pictures, though perhaps of interest " "to some, seems to me to be outside the concerns of 603 ownership? " Could I suggest some other BOC forum be created for such discussions? In "the case of the computer problems, have we been witnessing what ought to " "have been ""private"" conversations between Bob Charlton and others? " "If, on the other hand, you wish to discuss a problem in, say, VAX VMS DCL, " "COBOL, SQL, SSADM/LBSDM, LISP, FORTRAN, PASCAL, MCP or DMS then maybe I'll " be more interested.... Perhaps what is needed is some way of organising the forum so that a trail "of contributions can be seen, such as we've had recently for towhooks, " "tyres, final drive ratios etc. (and, yes, computer graphics techniques!) but " without burdening us all with material that we may not want to see? Can I suggest this is what web-pages do very well - people access them when they want them. There is however a role for alerting forum members to the fact that a discussion is going on - maybe topic initiators' contributions should "be mailed to all, with the first reply triggering a second automatic e-mail " "to all, saying something like ""discussion on topic x now in progress"". " Clearly there needs also to be a way for forum members to indicate to the forum system whether or not they wish to hear more about any given topic. I say all this because BOC forum material is swamping my incoming e-mail and "other than ""SIGNOFF"" I have no way of filtering it! " "I suppose, as usual, I'm asking far too much of the world here! " "No ""forum"" reply required but if someone wants to talk to me about one or " more of the topics in para 3 then you know where to find me..... Douglas Wilson -----Original Message----- From: Bob Schmitt [mailto:bsbrbank@pacbell.net] Sent: 23 June 2000 17:59 Subject: Re: 603 Wiring Bob - "> In article, CPK Smithies wrote: " > > Bob: if you can put them wherever you put your .jpg images and "> > create hyperlinks to them, again just like the .jpg images, then " > > they can be downloaded easily. The pros & cons of graphic file formats are probably beyond the scope of "this forum, but I thought I'd add what I've learned by my mistakes: " "1. Graphics files are first divided into ""bitmap"" and ""vector"" formats. " Bitmaps are always just a bunch of dots and don't scale well; vector "formats (CAD files, maybe Draw & pdf) are the math descriptions of how " "lines & curves are drawn and would be perfect for wiring diagrams, " except they normally cannot be displayed on web pages and programs that can view or print them are less common. "2. So nearly everything you see on the Internet is a bitmap. There's a " "further division of bitmaps into files which are compressed ""lossy"" and " "those that are ""loss-less"". And normally, you NEED compression to keep " files to a reasonable size for viewing or downloading. JPG & GIF files "are ""lossy"" - everytime they are opened & saved, something is changed " "(and not improved!). TIF files are ""loss-less"" even when compressed and " "are recommended for creating your ""base"" file for further work. " "Unfortunately, you can only display JPG & GIF files on Internet web " pages. "3. A further consideration is resolution. Your monitor only displays " "100 dpi (Macs are slightly different), but high quality printing and " "scanning should be 300 dpi or greater, thus implying you may want two " resolutions for a wiring diagram - one to display for casual reference and one to print and archive. "4. Finally, how big should a file be for display or printing? I wish I " knew - this depends on what resolution viewers have set their displays for - 600x800 seems common & safe. So if you want a wiring diagram to "fill a screen, without panning, it should probably be a GIF or JPG, 100 " "dpi resolution, 800x600, or thereabouts. " "For printing, consider using a downloadable TIF, as has been " "recommended, at 300 dpi, at the same size as was scanned. Even if two " "or more sheets are needed for printing, this may be better than " squinting! "I have an ""advertising blueprint"" for a '65 Imperial (we all know Mopar " "engines, right) on my web site that can be ""previewed"" quickly by a low " resolution GIF and downloaded in a large (1.5 MB) TIF. If you are "curious, it's on: " http://teamchicago.com/imperial/ "When I have the time & software, I'd like to convert it to a vector " format to make a nice wall mural! Bob "PS. Yes, my photo files are too big & take too long to display! This " "music, however, is British! " "Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:24:42 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com "Subject: Re: (603 Wiring) the problems of a ""forum"" " no more compubabble thanks "Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:20:59 +1200 (NZST) " From: Lane Smytheman Subject: Re: 2 litre tyres "I also have a set of FALKEN -RV, LANDAIR/CT 175/80R16 tyres that seem ideal " "for general use on early Bristols, but as yet I have not used them on the road. " BRIDGESTONE have a very similar DUELER H/T steel belt radial 175/80R16 tyre "but whilst the tread pattern is almost the same, I would think that the " FALKEN tyre would be slightly better on wet roads. The BRIDGESTONE should be not as noisy on the road. The above tyres are only about 9mm less in ( uninflated ) diameter than PIRELLI CINTURATO 185SR16 tyres. Lane S. ------------------------ "At 10:47 12/06/00 +1000, you wrote: " >Have equiped the 404 with absolutely excellent set of tyres and have now >done about 4000 miles and very happy. >A Japanese 4 wheel drive type called FALKEN R/V 175/80 R16 Steel Belt ">Radial, they have a good look as the tread pattern is subdued,look right on " >the car and give outstanding road holding. Also not expensive. >Previously used Michelin Mud and Snow tyres on the 403 which gave good >service but were ugly re tread profile. ">Have had Pirelli 16"" tyres totally hopeless on the 403 and would not like " >to use Taxi type as I am used to occaisonally exceeding the speed limit!!!. >Hugh "Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:35:08 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Your e-mail. Cc: BOC Forum Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Shawn. "Thank you for the e-mail dated 4th May, my apologies for the delay in " replying. I think you misunderstood the intentions of my e-mail on diffs and overdrive ratios. I am not interested in producing a racing car merely improving and getting "the best results out of what one has, be it 400 401 402 403 or 404 in by " "using the original equipment . Save fuel, have a less stressed engine and " peace and quiet on long journeys. I designed and fitted an overdrive to my 400 with everything standard. If required I can revert back to the original specification by refitting the gearbox extension housing and sliding main output shaft.. "I do not want to change this philosophy by fitting different engines,gearbox " ratios and diffs but select the best overdrive ratio. I feel sure they are other people with similar views. If I change anything it will be the power output from the 85 series engine. If you have any suggestions on how this may be achieved I would be interested. I am just starting to rebuild the original engine. In my opinion it is wrong to remove the 400 engine gearbox and the diff and transplant say a 405 for the quest of speed and performance. You mention in your e mail about using standard gear sets to change the G/B ratio. Can you tell me a bit more about these and the suppliers. Regards Derek. "Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:36:47 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Forum E mail Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services "I concur with Douglas Wilson, ban all computer jargon from Forum E mail " HAVE WE NO READERS OUT THERE WITH SOMETHING MORE INTERESTING TO DISCUSS?. Regards Derek Hughes. "Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 00:10:42 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton "Subject: Re: The problems of a ""forum"" " References: "In article , " CPK Smithies wrote: > My vote is for option 1. Perhaps this should be the second rule of Forum? Who was it said... " ""You cannot be all things, to all people, all of the time... " " Just something, to some, part of the time"" " or words to that effect?#-( "Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:05:06 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies "Subject: RE: The problems of a ""forum"" " Importance: Normal The problem with a forum is that almost every message is of no interest to "many of the recipients. For some, discussion of the format for storing " "wiring diagrams is relevant, not compubabble. To some, details of 603 wiring " "are completely useless. There are, it seems to me, two alternatives - short " "of abandoning the forum altogether and trying some other medium, such as a " newsgroup. 1) Put up with irrelevant messages with good grace; just quietly hit the "silent, deadly DEL button. " "2) Promulgate a set of keywords which can be used in message headers. Those, " "for example, who wish to ignore messages about V8s could set their mail " software automatically to filter out and discard those messages which "contain ""V8"" in the header. Of course, newcomers to the forum would make " mistakes and there would still be a need for toleration. My vote is for option 1. "Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:49:55 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Forum E mail "On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:36:47 +0100, Derek Hughes wrote: " ">I concur with Douglas Wilson, ban all computer jargon from Forum " E mail Like it or not it is the computer and the efforts of people such as Bob Charlton which makes the forum and the BOC web site " possible, although even as a technocrat and an occasional " " contributor of 'compubabble', I must agree that detailed " discussion on the technology should not be thrust upon the wider " membership of the forum, who joined it to discuss Bristol cars. " Spare a thought also for those of us who are no more interested in the banality of 2 litre Bristol overdrives and final drive ratios. As it stands I think we need at least two mail lists in the Bristol owners club's members have email at their disposal the therefore I believe a newsgroup of some description with auto notification of topics in discussion is the best solution. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 23:36:47 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " ">I concur with Douglas Wilson, ban all computer jargon from Forum " E mail >HAVE WE NO READERS OUT THERE WITH SOMETHING MORE INTERESTING TO DISCUSS?. >Regards Derek Hughes. "forum@boc.net,Kevin Howard,khoward@bigpond.net.au " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 28/06/2000 at 8:02:44 " PM "Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:58:04 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Re: Bristol Hire? One of those exotic car hire companies in London - I saw on the internet or on one of the classic magazines - have a 411s.5 which can be hired out at pricey rates. I don't remember which one it was - not Bespokes however. "At 03:11 PM 6/29/00 +0100, you wrote: " >I've been contacted three times in as many weeks with requests >regarding the possible hire of a Bristol car (one wedding and two >birthdays). Does anyone know of a possible contact? >Richard Peacock "Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:11:20 +0100 " From: peacocks@oakview.demon.co.uk Subject: Bristol Hire? Organization: Angelcynn I've been contacted three times in as many weeks with requests regarding the possible hire of a Bristol car (one wedding and two birthdays). Does anyone know of a possible contact? Richard Peacock "Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:07:18 +0100 " From: peacocks@oakview.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Birthday Bristol "Cc: bristol_sale@digitalmail.com, lonbusco@globalnet.co.uk " Organization: Angelcynn References: <20000628173951.11232.qmail@web4306.mail.yahoo.com> "On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:39:51 +0100 (BST), you wrote: " ">Dear Mr Peacock, " > I have just found your address on the >Bristol Owners Club web site. I was wondering if you >would be able to help me. On August 4th my father >will be 50 and ever since I can remember he has been >absolutely crazy about Bristol cars - but has never >owned one. I have been looking everywhere to try and >find out if he can possibly hire one for a day. On >finding the Bristols web site I saw you address and >realised that you are quite local to us as we live ">near usk, Monmouthshire. If you know of any such place " >that hires Bristols or indeed have any information >that would be of any use to me in arranging my >father's Birthday present I would be extremely >grateful. 20 >20 > yours sincerely > Bethan Hughes >____________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? Sorry but I don't know of anyone who hires their Bristol and although I would not mind being your driver for such a one off occassion my Bristol is off the road at the moment. I have however contacted a few members of BOC who are in the area and put a plea out on our Club Forum. I hope it brings something - I had to wait till my 60th and then got a balloon ride. Wish your father Happy Birthday! Richard Peacock >Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk >or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie "Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:11:51 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Bristol Hire? wedding agencies do charge several hundred quids for the dubious pleasure of riding about in some resprayed mass produced hack and it's amazing what "people will pay for. The Attwell-Wilson motor museum in Calne, Wilts will " have a list of up to date charges starting with your white Granada with coathanger aerial going up to yr ex-undertaker's Roller. Stefan "Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 00:29:24 +0100 " From: BOC General Registrar Subject: Forum This I pass on if there is anyone looking. > Anyone looking for a 401 Handbook/Instruction Manual? There is one > for auction on eBay UK > (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item3D370531582 "> Described as scruffy, the bidding starts at A340. " "> This has nothing to do with me, I'm merely the messenger! " Shall I say a reputable source. > Just go into eBay UK and hit search. It should let you search by > item No. Just type in 370531582. Or use the hyperlink. Which is given above. "rgds., " Bob Charlton Bristol Owners Club * General Registrar * http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 21:19:24 +0100 " From: Adrian Berry Subject: Re: Bristol Hire? Sender: adrian.berry@armigerhouse.com References: I have used my white 412 to great effect at weddings. (see photos in LJK Setright's A Private Car) "I am happy to discuss chauffeur terms with anyone, however, I am based in " East Sussex but am prepared to travel if paid appropriately. Regards Adrian "Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 21:28:36 +0100 " From: Adrian Berry Subject: Wiring diagrams Sender: adrian.berry@armigerhouse.com What happened to requesting a copy of wiring diagrams from the Reprint "Secretary? Now that we have a new man at the helm, why not give him " something to do? Regards Adrian "Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 09:55:38 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: Re: Olympics Maureen and I are looking to absent ourselves from Sydney during the Olympics. Would anyone be interested in a house and Bristol swap? Also have a new Subaru Forester GT for less interesting driving. Am situated about 1 hour north of the city and Olympic site with good Public Transport to both. The house is new and is located at the waters edge on Pittwater with wharf etc. Hugh Knox "Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 20:56:55 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Wiring diagrams I don't think you really want an answer to your first question. "As for the second question, the last newsletter I received asked " for volunteers for the position. The BOC web site still lists Arnold Bettess as reprint secretary and Geoffrey Herdman said in a recent email to me (just before he went touring) that Arnold was still responsible for reprints. If you know different tell us who he is and we might give it a try. "Reargards, " Kevin Howard PS You cant't blame people for preferring a free soft copy which can "be printed out in any size at will, to paying good money for a " poor photocopy (presuming the wiring diags are 'reprinted' in the same manner as the Bulletins). "On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:28:36 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >What happened to requesting a copy of wiring diagrams from the >Reprint ">Secretary? Now that we have a new man at the helm, why not give " him >something to do? >Regards >Adrian Forum "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/03/2000 at 8:40:39 " PM "Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 12:24:07 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Email address for Robert van Wegan OZ The heading says it all. I'd be grateful if one of our Australian readers or anyone else... for that matter can put me in touch. I seem to have a faulty or incomplete email address for Robert. "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 12:17:40 +0100 " From: John R Charlton Subject: Mail Organization Query References: <000b01bfe51d$33b3d8e0$bf68883e@freeserve.co.uk> "In article <000b01bfe51d$33b3d8e0$bf68883e@freeserve.co.uk>, " Derek Hughes wrote: "> This is a good idea but increases Bobs workload,and is it really " > necessary?.(What does it involve Bob?) Two lists seems a bit much when some owners have both types of car... also the traffic is really not all that heavy until something sparks interest. What that might be... """I claim the Fifth"" as our American participents might reply ;-) " > I have no difficulty in handling all the Forum e mail received on "> Bristol Cars. It only takes a minute or two to sort, scan read, " "> DEL the irrelevant, trivia and rubbish. " This is exactly how I handle the News from groups I subscribe to. Its easy to identify interesting traffic if the Subject Heading reflects and relates to the content. > Then read the interesting topics at leisure including the V8'S. > Perhaps the writers could adopt a standard format for the Subject > title > e.g This is covered in the previous para reply... its common sense. > this would enable the e mail recipient to have a number of mail "> boxes for 'DEL' ling quickly, - child's play. " > What do you think Bob?. Its also helpful if the mail reader presents data as threads. I've just noticed my News box currently contains 17397 mails on "hundreds of topics, but nothing to stop you arranging them as you " wish is there? That was rhetorical by the way... "Hope this helps, " Bob "cars, Aircraft, Associated Clubs, or of Owner or Members interest. " Remember its your Forum - you choose the subject matter. It takes but a moment to delete data without reading it. "Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 10:05:05 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: RE: Re Form Mail Derek: a personal reply just for you "Bob's TIRESOME strength , eh? :-o " Hon Memb for JRC a v good idea. "Rgds, " Douglas Wilson. PS I like your freeserve address! -----Original Message----- From: Derek Hughes [mailto:derek@bristol400.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 03 July 2000 13:38 Subject: Re Form Mail ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Kevin Howard"" " " On Wednesday, June 28, 2000 11:49 AM Kevin Howard wrote; " Subject: Re: Forum E mail :- Reply to email from Derek Hughes dated 27-36-47+0100 > Like it or not it is the computer and the efforts of people such as Bob "Charlton which makes the forum and the BOC web site possible,> " In my opinion there would be very little communication and historical records within the Club if it was not for Bob's tiresome strength and sterling work for the B.O.C. He deserves some recognition for his long service and work in presenting the very high club profile on the Net and the Forum News. Perhaps a medal or Honorary Membership of the Club is an appropriate reward. Members please put your views on the screen or hit DEL. The committee will know your views and may consider this at the next AGM. > Banality (trivial) of 2 litre of O/D > it may not be to some readers. Without transmissions for discussion there is no need for a forum. In my opinion Bristol related material over the last 6 month has been very limited. ">As it stands I think we need at least two mail ? in the forum, " 2 Litre Bristols and V8 Bristols. > . "This is a good idea but increases Bobs workload,and is it really " necessary?.(What does it involve Bob?) I have no difficulty in handling all the Forum e mail received on Bristol "Cars. It only takes a minute or two to sort, scan read, DEL the irrelevant, " trivia and rubbish. Then read the interesting topics at leisure including the V8'S. Perhaps the writers could adopt a standard format for the Subject "title e.g 2/2.2 litre Cars - Tow Bar, or Gearbox or Tyres etc,. " V 8's Cars - dtto --------------------------------- " Cooper Bristol etc,. " this would enable the e mail recipient to have a number of mail boxes for "'DEL' ling quickly, - child's play. What do you think Bob?. " " Re CPK Smithies e mail, June 27 the,. on this subject, My Vote is for 1. " > Derek Hughes. "Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 11:21:46 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: Re Form Mail Importance: Normal I should like to second what Kevin Howard said about the work Bob has done for the Club. We are extremely lucky to have someone with his savoir-faire "and dedication. This was expressly mentioned at the last AGM, but I agree " that the Club could say it a little louder. Christopher Smithies "Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 10:40:51 -0400 (EDT) " From: bsbrbank@pacbell.net (Bob Schmitt) Subject: 4th of July Fireworks - from Bob Schmitt You have just received an animated greeting card from Bob Schmitt You can pick up your personal message by using the following Web location. http://www3.bluemountain.com/cards/box3978s/wrh7fdawyiiupd.htm Your card will be available for the next 90 days There is no charge for this service! :) HAVE a good day and have fun! Accessing your card indicates your agreement with our Website Rules posted at the bottom of the following Web location: (You're welcome to send a card at no charge to someone at this location) http://www.bluemountain.com/ "Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 08:11:39 +1000 " From: H D Knox Subject: Re: Email address for Robert van Wegan OZ Yes here it is """Rob & Marilyn"" " "At 12:24 PM 04-07-00 +0100, you wrote: " >The heading says it all. >I'd be grateful if one of our Australian readers or anyone else... >for that matter can put me in touch. >I seem to have a faulty or incomplete email address for Robert. ">Thanks in anticipation, " >Bob Charlton "Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:31:35 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Email address for Robert van Wegan OZ References: <49d8cc1004Postmaster@boc.net> "In article <3.0.5.32.20000705081139.007eb460@ozemail.com.au>, " H D Knox wrote: > Yes here it is "> ""Rob & Marilyn"" " Excellent thanks Hugh. "Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:45:32 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Fw: Re Form Mail References: <000801bfe5ef$11af2a60$8947883e@freeserve.co.uk> "On 04 Jul, Derek Hughes wrote: " > Oh deary me. Sorry to trouble you but could you please make the "> following correction to my last e mail, replace 'tiresome' by " > 'TIRELESS' . My brain had a memory recall problem. I've done it millions of time so I expect have many others reading. Mail is long gone. At least we know what it is we were missing. ...and this will make sense of it ;)) "cheers, Bob " "cars, Aircraft, Associated Clubs, or of Owner or Members interest. " Remember its your Forum - you choose the subject matter. It takes but a moment to delete data without reading it. "Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 07:47:39 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: 4th of July Honors for Bob Charlton References: <000b01bfe51d$33b3d8e0$bf68883e@freeserve.co.uk> Hi to all - "Excellent idea! I endorse all sorts of honors for Bob, in spite of the " slight irony that in this former colony we are celebrating a holiday "today that declares our independence, in some sense, from British ""pomp " "and circumstance"". But there's a time and place for everything! " So...honors to Bob! http://www3.bluemountain.com/cards/box3978s/syg9zvgxiavypnb.htm > > Like it or not it is the computer and the efforts of people such as Bob "> Charlton which makes the forum and the BOC web site possible,> " > In my opinion there would be very little communication and historical > records > within the Club if it was not for Bob's tireless strength and sterling work > for the B.O.C. He deserves some recognition for his long service and work > in presenting the very high club profile on the Net and the Forum News. > Perhaps a medal or Honorary Membership of the Club is an appropriate > reward. "Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 10:18:02 +0100 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: Re Form Mail References: <000b01bfe51d$33b3d8e0$bf68883e@freeserve.co.uk> "I agree with Derek Hughes , the forum is a very good tool for communication " ", " it takes very little time to read and ideas pop up that you might never have "thought of, as I have said before , use the delete button it only takes a " second to dispose of that which you do not want to read. The Forum is for all things BRISTOL and just because I happen to own a V8 today does not mean that I do not aspire to a 2 litre in the future. Any committed Bristol enthusiast surely likes to know about all things Bristol. "If not , leave the Forum and stop acting like a potato couch who does not " no where the off button on the TV is. I heartily agree that Bob is doing a wonderful job with both Forum and Web "site, I also notice he has not yet been able to teach people how to write a " E mail reply without leaving the original message in place. Nick Challacombe 407 and all things Bristol. ( even in pairs ! ) "Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 13:37:45 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re Form Mail Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Kevin Howard"" " " On Wednesday, June 28, 2000 11:49 AM Kevin Howard wrote; " Subject: Re: Forum E mail :- Reply to email from Derek Hughes dated 27-36-47+0100 > Like it or not it is the computer and the efforts of people such as Bob "Charlton which makes the forum and the BOC web site possible,> " In my opinion there would be very little communication and historical records within the Club if it was not for Bob's tiresome strength and sterling work for the B.O.C. He deserves some recognition for his long service and work in presenting the very high club profile on the Net and the Forum News. Perhaps a medal or Honorary Membership of the Club is an appropriate reward. Members please put your views on the screen or hit DEL. The committee will know your views and may consider this at the next AGM. > Banality (trivial) of 2 litre of O/D > it may not be to some readers. Without transmissions for discussion there is no need for a forum. In my opinion Bristol related material over the last 6 month has been very limited. ">As it stands I think we need at least two mail ? in the forum, " 2 Litre Bristols and V8 Bristols. > . "This is a good idea but increases Bobs workload,and is it really " necessary?.(What does it involve Bob?) I have no difficulty in handling all the Forum e mail received on Bristol "Cars. It only takes a minute or two to sort, scan read, DEL the irrelevant, " trivia and rubbish. Then read the interesting topics at leisure including the V8'S. Perhaps the writers could adopt a standard format for the Subject "title e.g 2/2.2 litre Cars - Tow Bar, or Gearbox or Tyres etc,. " V 8's Cars - dtto --------------------------------- " Cooper Bristol etc,. " this would enable the e mail recipient to have a number of mail boxes for "'DEL' ling quickly, - child's play. What do you think Bob?. " " Re CPK Smithies e mail, June 27 the,. on this subject, My Vote is for 1. " > Derek Hughes. nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.4 (830.2 3-23-1999)) "Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 12:52:14 +0100 " From: Andersen Y Cheng Subject: Recommendation on What to do with Forum E-mails 1. I agree that we should keep it simple and not try to have too many "permutations on 2 litres, V8s, software and printing issues. " 2. I believe it is each member's responsibility to make the subject title "meaningful for the reader to decide whether to carry on reading or not, e.g.: " """Technical Set up of ""Something Bristol Specific"""" rather than "" Bristol 2 " "Litre"" " """Printing of 603 Wiring Diagrams"" rather than ""603 Wiring Diagrams"" " """2 Litre Pirelli Cinturati Tyres for Sale"" rather than ""Bristol Tyres"" " 3. When a discussion becomes focused and is obvious that it just applies to one "or two members, it should be continued offline using specific e-mail addresses " rather than the Forum@boc.net address. "I think if we follow the guidelines above, we should have Bristol technical " "matters, computer set ups and classified all addressed in ONE Subject Line. I " receive over 80 e-mails a day but I always look forward to reading Bristol e-mails. We should all be quietly satisfied that we have so many active members on the net and it really isn't a lot of work to use the DEL button if we see something irrelevant on the Subject Line.
  • à9h some of the photos from the Setright book and/or extracts from the Bulletin. This will also enable us to save the images as screensavers or "wallpapers(Sorry, more computerspeak)! " "I poresume we want to raise the profiles of the marque and the Owners Club, and " I think we should consider advertising the web address in classic car magazines at some point. I certainly think some kind of recognition for Bob should be in place. May be we should do something at the annual gathering in August. "Regards, " Andersen nkc@waitrose.com on 05/07/2000 05:18:02 Please respond to Forum@boc.net cc: (bcc: Andersen Y Cheng) Subject: Re: Re Form Mail "I agree with Derek Hughes , the forum is a very good tool for communication " ", " it takes very little time to read and ideas pop up that you might never have "thought of, as I have said before , use the delete button it only takes a " second to dispose of that which you do not want to read. The Forum is for all things BRISTOL and just because I happen to own a V8 today does not mean that I do not aspire to a 2 litre in the future. Any committed Bristol enthusiast surely likes to know about all things Bristol. "If not , leave the Forum and stop acting like a potato couch who does not " no where the off button on the TV is. I heartily agree that Bob is doing a wonderful job with both Forum and Web "site, I also notice he has not yet been able to teach people how to write a " E mail reply without leaving the original message in place. Nick Challacombe 407 and all things Bristol. ( even in pairs ! ) -- This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument "or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data " and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein "do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan & Co. Incorporated, its " subsidiaries and affiliates. "Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 08:39:36 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Re Form Mail "Large medal for Bob please. Sugest the classic 16"" dia at least. Stefan " "Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:02:21 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Recommendation on What to do with Forum E-mails References: <200007060146.LAA13719@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> "Kevin, " I don't know what you did to cause it but you've sent an html structured file to a text only mail facility. Not everyone will have browsers on line or the necessary Fonts to translate this. If you like re-send as plain text Please. Quite apart from anything else - it bloats the message quite unecessarily to some 7Kb. Bob "Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 20:10:45 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Recommendation on What to do with Forum E-mails "Sorry, have uprgaded my mail software and it has reset the " defaults ! Will re send "On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:02:21 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " ">Kevin, " >I don't know what you did to cause it but you've sent an html >structured file to a text only mail facility. >Not everyone will have browsers on line or the necessary Fonts to >translate this. >If you like re-send as plain text Please. >Quite apart from anything else - it bloats the message quite unecessarily to some 7Kb. >Bob "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/06/2000 at 8:09:51 " PM "Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:12:22 +0100 " From: BOC General Registrar Subject: 408 mk2 Engine derivation Does anyone know which American cars were fitted with the powertrain installed in the 408 Mk2. prefixed 1326...and numbered circa 37774C. Answer requested by new member... I haven't a clue... "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 20:12:25 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Recommendation on What to do with Forum E-mails "On Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:52:14 +0100, Andersen Y Cheng wrote: " >1. I agree that we should keep it simple and not try to have too many ">permutations on 2 litres, V8s, software and printing issues. " I only suggested having multiple mail lists as an interim measure and suggested that a newsgroup of some description would be the best solution. Follow this link http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/library.html to see a relevant example. >2. I believe it is each member's responsibility to make the subject title >meaningful for the reader to decide whether to carry on reading " or not, e.g.: " ">""Technical Set up of ""Something Bristol Specific"""" rather than "" " Bristol 2 ">Litre"" " ">""Printing of 603 Wiring Diagrams"" rather than ""603 Wiring " " Diagrams"" " ">""2 Litre Pirelli Cinturati Tyres for Sale"" rather than ""Bristol " " Tyres"" " "Agreed, but people (not just in BOC) often fail to change the " subject line when the discussion has gone off on a tangent and is now about something completely different. >3. When a discussion becomes focused and is obvious that it just applies to one ">or two members, it should be continued offline using specific " e-mail addresses >rather than the Forum@boc.net address. This would certainly reduce the number of BOC emails for people like yourself or Douglas Wilson who susbcribe "via corporate email accounts. BUT, when does a discussion " become focussed to the point where it would not be of any interest to the wider BOC community ? Forum subscribers may be following a message thread but not have " anything constructive to add, but when it " goes private they would no longer be able to follow it. As we have seen discussions also change direction and become of interest to different people as they progress. I don't want to have someone else decided what I would or would not be interested in. A web based news group could be moderated and controlled just like the email forum however it provides a number of obvious benefits. Possibly the most important one is that by default we would end up with a crude discussion database which could be referred to by existing and new members alike. In fact it could be viewed as a very valuable technical resource on Bristol cars and actually used to promote club membership!. This would also avoid old topics being broadcast again and again as new subscribers join the forum and raise issues which have been discussed before. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/06/2000 at 8:12:01 " PM "Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:29:49 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Recommendation on What to do with Forum E-mails References: <200007061022.UAA09787@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> Kevin et al - "> Agreed, but people (not just in BOC) often fail to change the subject line when the " discussion has gone off > on a tangent and is now about something completely different. Every mail list I've looked at has these same discussions. Not "surprisingly, many of these issues and suggested solutions have been " "collated into a standard, which is published many places on the " "Internet, such as: " http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html No need to reinvent the wheel! (unless it's a Bristol part...) "On the issue of preserving the email tech advice, my other primary mail " "list, on the Imperial (car), has archived all the email for tha past 4 " years. This is a great resource and is searchable. To see what this "looks like, check: " http://www.imperialclub.com/archives/normal/ I've saved all the Bristol Forum messages since 1/99 (the beginning?) "and suggest everyone should also do so. To date, this takes up 1.4 MB " "and would fit on a floppy, even uncompressed. " Bob S. "Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 07:46:28 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Bristol V8 engine trivia "On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:37:05 -0700, bsbrbank@pacbell.net wrote: " >Kevin - >> >> I am quite sure (99%) that the 400 ci V8 in the Bristol 411 S5 is a 'big block'. >> ">I just found the ""1974 World Cars"" that includes both the " Chrysler & >Bristol applications of the 400 - they have the same bore & stroke - ">110.3 x 85.7 mm. And by following the specs for the Chrysler, it " seems >like the 400 is a bored/stroked 318/360. But this is just a reasoned >guess and I'd like to hear what you find out. ">I'd expect big external difference - engine mounts, accessories, " etc. ">between the big & small blocks, but I feel pretty ignorant " compared to >the Mopar hot-rodders around here who could make the ID in a flash. >Bob "Bob, " I have some gleaned some info about Chrysler V8's from Dean Anthony of Jensen Motors here in Australia. Should help in the quest to match export Chrysler V8's with American "engines, but I happy to stand corrected if any of this is wrong. " "The Chrysler 351, 383 & 400 ci engines are all B Block engines, " however the 400 being designed in the early 70's was unified where possible with the 440 which is a 'raised block' or RB engine. The 400 (as used in the Bristol 411 S4 and 5) and 440 blocks are almost identical although the 440 is about 1 inch wider across the heads and about "higher, this is because the 400 actually has a wider bore than " " the 440, which has a longer stroke. " "Many components are interchangeable such as the crank shafts, cam " " shafts and cylinder heads, many of the " ancillaries are identical. For example I have just fitted a Chrysler air conditioning compressor from a 440 Jensen on to my Bristol 411 " S5, the bolt holes and pulley line up " perfectly. The 351 and 383 engines are 60's designs and main bearing journals etc are quite different from the 400 and "440 engines, and the 360 engine is different again being a 'small " block' engine. There were also different build classes of both the 400 and 440 engines depending on where they were destined for. Export and high performance 400 & 440 engines "had the same high performance cam shafts in them, although the " 400 has a cast iron crank which relies on "external balancing, whereas the export or HP 440 has a forged " steel crank which is already balanced. The latter being more desirable. The 'domestic' 440's still have a cast iron crank. The high performance 440's for the domestic American market were known as Magnum or 375 HP motors. Also the changes in emission laws resulted changes to cam shaft profiles and a reduction in power output of these engines during the 1970's. Apparently when people re bore 400 engines in the US most of the piston manufacturers suggest an interesting upgrade. You fit a forged steel 440 crank and the longer 440 con "rods, they supply over bore (+30 thou) alloy pistons which have " the piston pin about an inch higher. The overall effect is an increase in capacity to 452 ci (in a 400 block). Apparently this results in a significant increase in low end torque but very little increase in power. I am currently having my 411 S5 fitted with custom built fuel injection and we have ended up taking the "engine out to fix the rear oil seal, which also requires the " crank to be taken out. While were at it we decided to take the heads off and the pistons out and realised that someone has already done a poor job of re conditioning my engine. Dean has persuaded me to have the upgrade I mention above. We are also putting in a new 'modern' grind cam shaft to make the most of the FI and engine management system. We are doing a few other non trivial things while we have got the car dismantled to such a degree but I won't bore you with the detail. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/07/2000 at 7:45:43 " AM "Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 20:04:10 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation "Just realised I misread this question, my previous email focussed " on transmission. My understanding is that the 408 had a 318ci engine which was " produced at Chrysler's plant in Windsor, " "Ontario, first used in the Plymouth Fury in 1957. " The 408 Mk2 had the same 318 Plymouth engine but it came from the " Mound Road plant in Detroit, Michigan. " "I think all of the V8s Chrysler shipped to Bristol,up to and " " including the 400ci engines, were 'Power Pack' " or high performance (HP) specification. This upgrade may not be found so readily in domestic Plymouth or Dodge cars of the time but many of the US cars which used these engines had several engine options available. Hope this helps. Kevin Howard "On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:12:22 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >Does anyone know which American cars were fitted with the powertrain >installed in the 408 Mk2. prefixed 1326...and numbered circa 37774C. >Answer requested by new member... I haven't a clue... ">Thanks in anticipation, " >Bob Charlton "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/07/2000 at 7:04:44 " PM "Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:27:47 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation References: <49d9ee201cbocgenregr@argonet.co.uk> "In article <200007071013.UAA09564@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: "> Just realised I misread this question, my previous email focussed " > on transmission. Thanks Kevin I'll pass it on. "rgds., " "Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:35:19 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation The 408 Mk2 had the new Torqueflite A727 transmission. This was used on most Plymouth and Dodge cars with "small block engines, ie 273, 318 or 360 ci in the US. I believe " it is also the same transmission used by "Jensen in the Interceptors and Aston Martin in the AM V8, among " others. "On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:12:22 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >Does anyone know which American cars were fitted with the powertrain >installed in the 408 Mk2. prefixed 1326...and numbered circa 37774C. >Answer requested by new member... I haven't a clue... ">Thanks in anticipation, " >Bob Charlton "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/07/2000 at 6:28:32 " PM "Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 00:03:23 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation References: <49d9ee201cbocgenregr@argonet.co.uk> "In article <200007071013.UAA09564@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: > My understanding is that the 408 had a 318ci engine which was "> produced at Chrysler's plant in Windsor, Ontario, first used in " > the Plymouth Fury in 1957. In the light of Shane's later contribution and further research it appears the 313 cubic inch capacity engine was fitted in the 408 and in the earlier 407 but the 318 c.i. engine was fitted in the 408 Mk2 cars manufactured. My enquiry was originally in respect of the Mk2 version only. The question of 'Power Pack' specification was previously assigned to the unit fitted originally in the Type 407... which has previously been stated to be ex.Plymouth or Dodge Motors... I suppose this could be extrapolated to include the version of the Bristol Type 408. Given the plethora of later engines used it would be useful to me and I suppose others if the engines and transmission derivations could be listed for all of the 8 cylinder cars to present date. "As far as I know this has never been published, in the UK but it " could well help owners in other countries identify which parts they might require more easily when things get out of sync.? At least they would be starting with the correct designation of their own car power train... This small point I have found essential when confronted by some idiot "leaning over a greasy computer casing, aciduously insisting that " Bristol Cars don't exist on his files... therefore I must be getting confused with an ....BUS!:-( "Thanks in anticipation, " Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:26:46 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Old Forum stuff References: <20000707140541.KRNE7247.mta4-svc.virgin.net@[62.252.40.172]> Hello David et al - > I recently asked Bob Charlton if he saved old boc Forum stuff as I was > interested in publishing a small booklet of same which I believed would be of "> general interest to the Bristol comunity, including non forum subscribers. " > (He had not). I've posted a text file with all the BOC messages I've got since 4/16/97 to: http://teamchicago.com/AFN/boc.txt "This should come up, full headers and all, after a patient wait and then " "you can save the file, etc. I believe this file can be copied (or " "imported) into your email folder, where it should/may appear as 314 " messages. And I've heard there are programs that will filter off the "headers, etc if you cannot bring it into your email program. If none of " "this works, I know of a crude and tedious filtering method - please " write to me privately. "Otherwise, enjoy this history or the weekend! " Bob S. (Burbank California) "Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 20:58:39 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation "On Sat, 08 Jul 2000 00:03:23 +0100, forum@boc.net wrote: " >In article > Kevin Howard wrote: >> My understanding is that the 408 had a 318ci engine which was ">> produced at Chrysler's plant in Windsor, Ontario, first used " in >> the Plymouth Fury in 1957. >In the light of Shane's later contribution and further research it >appears the 313 cubic inch capacity engine was fitted in the 408 and >in the earlier 407 but the 318 c.i. engine was fitted in the 408 Mk2 >cars manufactured. I agree. On reading the relevant chapters of Private Car in the light of day (instead of 3 o'clock in the morning) it is clear that Setright implies that the 408 has the same engine as the 407. However he does clearly state that the 408 Mk2 has the 318. Which is just as well because I cannot fine any mention of the "Mk2 in any other literature I have on Bristols, probably because " there were so few made. Anyone know how many ? In fact does anyone know how many Bristol made of any of the V8 models ? >My enquiry was originally in respect of the Mk2 version only. In response your original question:- In 1962 the American cars which used the same power train as the 408 Mk2 were the Plymouth Fury in various "guises, 2 door, 4 door and convertible. And there were the Dodge " Dart 440 4 door and Station Wagon "All of these cars these all had various engine options, 318 being " the least powerful producing 230 bhp in "standard tune, 260 bhp (presumably the Power Pack) and 305 bhp " with the 361ci engine. There may well have "been other Plymouth and Dodge cars which used the 318, I am sure " a visit to a few Mopar Web sites will reveal all. It would seem that Chrysler's own brand cars and the Imperial all had much larger engines and did not use the small block Plymouth engines. >The question of 'Power Pack' specification was previously assigned to >the unit fitted originally in the Type 407... which has previously >been stated to be ex.Plymouth or Dodge Motors... I suppose this could >be extrapolated to include the version of the Bristol Type 408. The 318 was exactly the same engine as the 313 but with an extra "figures were exactly the same as the 313, so if it produced 250 " bhp in the Bristol it is safe to assume it also had the Power Pack. There are also references to the Power Pack in the 383 ci and 400ci engines. Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/08/2000 at 6:20:01 " PM "Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 21:29:21 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation "Shane, " I believe Bristol used to get quite large shipments of engines and it probably took them quite a long time to use them.. This is only speculation but I suspect that Bristol have been gradually producing less and less cars each year since the introduction of the V8 so they may have had engines in stock for quite a long time before they were used. My own 411 S5 for example has a manufactured date of that it was made in 1973! "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 08:33:37 -0700, forum@boc.net wrote: " >I thought the 408 had the same 313 as fitted to the 407 and the 318 was >fitted to the 409 and 410? I'm sure some 408 owner out there knows for ">certain. As far as I can see the 318 was the ""base"" engine " fitted to >Dodge/Plymouth models at the time but used all of the HP options available. >Can anyone speculate why Bristol used the A engine in the 410 rather than >the LA? Wasn't the engine out of production at the time the 410 was built? >regards >Shane "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/08/2000 at 9:08:19 " PM "Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 18:45:17 +0100 " From: General Registrar Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation References: <49da97974cPostmaster@boc.net> "In article <200007081111.VAA05780@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: > Anyone know how many ? "My best guess recorded was/is 16 - but chassis 7202, 7203, 7212, are " not yet validated... and I have one other not yet identified by "chassis number, but equally not enough data to link positively to any " other chassis yet... so it could be one of the missing or simply another case of an existing entry duplicated. > In fact does anyone know how many Bristol made of any of the V8 > models ? Bristol Cars Ltd. with the Owners club lagging (I hope) close behind. I am not allowed to publish data on any current production models... but that does not preclude logging data as it is made available or comes to hand. So don't despair its being accumulated for a date when the current production models are replaced with another. Happily Bristol Cars are reported to be securely financed - so the latter is likely just a matter of course. Hints made include the topless Blenheim.... whooooo drafty! The 4 door Blenheim maybe... but if developed - personally I hope the doors are more presentable than the 405 saloon... The Fighter... well its already announced and will be built to order with what sounds like a Dodge Viper engine breathed upon a little. "Hope this helps, " Bob Charlton " for ; Sat, 08 Jul 2000 19:23:32 +0100 " "Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 19:30:10 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Bob Schmitt - Boc Forum material Thanks for your response Bob. I have downloaded the material without problems. I will be saving all future forum mails. This material will need some careful editing but I belive there is the basis for a lose leaf type publication which can be updated form time to time. It should be a useful resource. I will keep you informed on progress. Thanks agin for your help. Regards: David. "Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 14:53:51 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation References: <200007081111.VAA05780@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> Hi Kevin & Forum - "> There may well have been other Plymouth and Dodge cars which used the > 318, I am " sure a visit to a few Mopar Web sites will reveal all. "Ah yes, way too many web sites, best saved for a rainy day of " exploring! You can find a bunch of links at: http://www.public.usit.net/jmoore/links.html and a good general starting point is http://www.allpar.com/ You'll find a link there that will go right to to all Mopar engines. The 318 and its derivatives were also widely used in Mopar trucks. "Kevin is correct that the ""small block"" was not used in Chrysler's (or " "Imperials). But when ""economy"" became a factor, it became the standard " engine in many models. I just looked at a New Yorker Brougham (a VERY "large car) that had the 360 engine, rather than the 440 we normally " expect. "The 313 remains a mystery to me, however. I can't recall seeing a " "reference to this in any US source, but then, I have much to learn! " Bob "Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 10:51:25 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: 2 / 2.2litre : Close Ratio Gearbox . Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <6b.3c890c1.2642ce6a@aol.com> Hello Shawn Thomas. I sent you an mail requesting details of the close ratio gear boxes but I have not received a reply. Could you please help by send the following information so that I can establish availability in the U.K. What is Gear Tooth Ratio for the CR G/B you spoke about?; Gear BW CR2 /CR5 CRG/B D.G / L.G - 21/26 ? L.G / M.G 1 12/35 ? L.G / M.G 2 19/28 ? " L,G / M.G 3 " 23/24 ? " L,S Reverse " 25-Dec D.G Drive gear. L.G Layshaft gear. " M.G Mainshaft gear, " Trusting you are able to help. Regards Derek. "Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 06:20:00 -0700 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: RE: 2 / 2.2litre : Close Ratio Gearbox . " Hello Derek, " There are a couple of ways to tackle this. Firstly is have you considered changing the final drive ratio(rear axle set)? The ratio in the gear box is more tricky. I have had gears cut for me depending on what need were "required. All of this tooth count, ratio of gear sets, etc. etc. can be " irrelevant and often people put far too much thought into. What are you trying to do with your car. I have seen people changing gear sets to pick up more final drive when the problem was they fit 15 inch wheels with low profile tires. The problem is the tire change is what made him spin the tires more for each engine rotation. In my opinion you must decide what you want to gain and then decide what you are willing to loose. You will certainly loose something for anything you try to gain. As far as gear counts that depends on what you wish to gain. Again anything can be done if you throw your checkbook at it. If you have further thoughts on this matter please fell free to contact me. Also get to know a gear cutter. Kind Regards Shawn Thomas > [Original Message] > From: Derek Hughes > To: > Date: 7/9/00 4:04:20 AM > Subject: 2 / 2.2litre : Close Ratio Gearbox . > Hello Shawn Thomas. > I sent you an mail requesting details of the close ratio gear boxes but I > have not received a reply. Could you please help by send the following > information so that I can establish availability in the U.K. > What is Gear Tooth Ratio for the CR G/B you spoke about?; > Gear BW > CR2 /CR5 CRG/B > D.G / L.G - > 21/26 ? > L.G / M.G 1 > 12/35 ? > L.G / M.G 2 > 19/28 ? "> L,G / M.G 3 " > 23/24 ? "> L,S Reverse " > 12/25 > D.G Drive gear. > L.G Layshaft gear. "> M.G Mainshaft gear, " > Trusting you are able to help. > Regards Derek. "Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:00:56 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 408 mk2 Engine derivation "Bob, " The 313 was made at the Windsor plant in Ontario but was exactly the "same engine as the 318 made just across Lake Michigan in Detroit, " apart from 30 thousandths of an inch in the diameter of each cylinder. Maybe the one of the two plants couldn't get their machining quality control right ? The blocks may well have all come from the same place. "I can't find any reference to a 313 in Plymouth, Dodge, De Soto " or Chrysler cars. I believe Plymouth also sold engines to Buick but I haven't checked Buick references. The only user of the 313 I can find is Bristol. Both engines had exactly the same performance stats. Maybe the 313's were installed in Plymouth Furys and sold as 318s ? "Regards, " Kevin "On Sat, 08 Jul 2000 14:53:51 -0700, Bob Schmitt wrote: " >Hi Kevin & Forum - >> There may well have been other Plymouth and Dodge cars which used "the > 318, I am sure a visit to a few Mopar Web sites will reveal " all. ">Ah yes, way too many web sites, best saved for a rainy day of " >exploring! You can find a bunch of links at: >http://www.public.usit.net/jmoore/links.html >and a good general starting point is >http://www.allpar.com/ >You'll find a link there that will go right to to all Mopar engines. >The 318 and its derivatives were also widely used in Mopar trucks. ">Kevin is correct that the ""small block"" was not used in " Chrysler's (or ">Imperials). But when ""economy"" became a factor, it became the " standard >engine in many models. I just looked at a New Yorker Brougham ">large car) that had the 360 engine, rather than the 440 we " normally >expect. ">The 313 remains a mystery to me, however. I can't recall seeing " a ">reference to this in any US source, but then, I have much to " learn! >Bob "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/09/2000 at 11:34:25 " PM "Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:42:40 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: 407 & 408 engine trivia "On Sat, 08 Jul 2000 14:53:51 -0700, Bob Schmitt wrote: " >Hi Kevin & Forum - >The 318 and its derivatives were also widely used in Mopar trucks. ">The 313 remains a mystery to me, however. I can't recall seeing " a ">reference to this in any US source, but then, I have much to " learn! >Bob "Bob, my local Jensen man, ( Mopar fanatic), says he has a minimal " reference relating to the '313 cid Plymouth engines Made in Canada in 1956' which were used in trucks. "Regards, " Kevin "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/10/2000 at 5:32:05 " PM "Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:03:44 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Overdrive Ratios. Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Shawn "Thank you for the e mail dated 09 July Re - Close Ratio Gearboxes, but I " find this very confusing as it contradicts your previous suggestions and tells me nothing. "YOUR E MAIL, To: " "Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 2:00 PM " Subject: Re: Overdrive Ratios. > snip > I think I would be more inclined to change final drive gears > from the many available gear sets where you can truly tune in your final > ratio. Its a great effort working these numbers as you did but I think you > have to put the old calculator away and start from scratch. > >From your comments above I assumed you were referring to the gearbox as I had previously advised you I did not want to change the 3.9 diff in my car to a 4.2. Unfortunately I traded one for some other parts that I needed some "time ago. Quote ""many available gear sets"" means to me that these are " "readily available from someone. The question is :- What are they , From whom " can you get them and How much?. £ or $ or ECU. Your e mail 09 July 2000. >snip > What do you want to do with your car?. "> To refresh the topic, I would like my Bristol 400 which is fitted with a " "'J' type O/D of 25%,(this can be changed 22% or 27%) a BW CR5 gearbox " " ratios previously given) and a 3.9 diff with 16"" wheels and tyres (not " "15"" ) to perform in a similar manner to my Rover 216 GTI which has a 5th " "gear. It has plenty of torque, acceleration and speed to cope with modern " densely populated motorways (Freeways) with some big hills in them. The engine is only 1600cc and I rarely have to change down to 4th gear except for traffic conditions. Not so in the 400. Since I am rebuilding the "engine, which I told you about, I thought it would be a good idea to look at " the G/B as recommended by you. Hence the question. >snip >Also get to know a good gear cutter. I know a very good gear cutting M/C shop who makes the main gearbox output shaft for my BW/ OD conversion. I appreciate your help but if you do not have the information please tell me. Regards Derek "Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:33:43 -0700 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: RE: Fw: Overdrive Ratios. " Hello Derek, " You are trying to compare a old car to a much newer car. I am sure you are aware of the technology changes through the years. As far as the gear "ratio changes, you have to consider what gears you want to change and wha " t you expect them to do. I would never quote numbers to someone that I used for racing applications and expect you to be happy with them in your case. You can make several changes between each gear to bring the ratio closer to your desires. If this was my car I would change my final drive to bring m torque range to a desired speed and then work the OD to your desire. Ther e is a company that make inline OD units that are built very well. This "company called Banks, has several units to choose from. I do not know how " "well it would fit in the car, though certainly its easier than some " alternatives. I see your point about having to downshift when using that final drive gear set but I don't believe you are going to be overwhelmed with choices. I have done many restorations for people trying such things "and I always tell them as I said in my first? e-mail, Modifying a car tha " t was not designed for such changes is tricky. I always suggest keeping car original. If changes are necessary make sure its right for you. Have you considered big bore for the motor? That may help out with pulling power. Please e-mail direct for further conversation. I could get you info on th e Banks OD unit if needed. Kind Regards Shawn Thomas bristolusa@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Derek Hughes > To: BOC Forum > Date: 7/10/00 4:16:28 PM > Subject: Fw: Overdrive Ratios. > Hello Shawn0D "> Thank you for the e mail dated 09 July Re - Close Ratio Gearboxes, but " > find this very confusing as it contradicts your previous suggestions an d0D > tells me nothing.0D "> YOUR E MAIL, To: 0D " "> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2000 2:00 PM0D " > Subject: Re: Overdrive Ratios.0D "> ,0D " > > snip0D > > I think I would be more inclined to change final drive gears0D > > from the many available gear sets where you can truly tune in your fi nal0D > > ratio. Its a great effort working these numbers as you did but I thin k you0D > > have to put the old calculator away and start from scratch. >0D > >0D > >From your comments above I assumed you were referring to the gearbox a > had previously advised you I did not want to change the 3.9 diff in my car0D > to0D > a 4.2. Unfortunately I traded one for some other parts that I needed s ome0D "> time ago. Quote ""many available gear sets"" means to me that these ar " e0D "> readily available from someone. The question is :- What are they , From " whom0D > can you get them and How much?. A3 or $ or ECU.0D > Your e mail 09 July 2000.0D > >snip0D > > What do you want to do with your car?.0D "> > To refresh the topic, I would like my Bristol 400 which is fitted wit " "> 'J' type O/D of 25%,(this can be changed 22% or 27%) a BW CR5 gearbox0D " "> ratios previously given) and a 3.9 diff with 16"" wheels and tyres (not " "> 15"" ) to perform in a similar manner to my Rover 216 GTI which has a 5t " "> gear. It has plenty of torque, acceleration and speed to cope with mode " rn0D > densely populated motorways (Freeways) with some big hills in them. The > engine is only 1600cc and I rarely have to change down to 4th gear exce pt0D > for traffic conditions. Not so in the 400. Since I am rebuilding the0D "> engine, which I told you about, I thought it would be a good idea to lo " ok at0D > the G/B as recommended by you. Hence the question.0D > >snip0D > >Also get to know a good gear cutter.0D > I know a very good gear cutting M/C shop who makes the main gearbox out put0D > shaft for my BW/ OD conversion.0D > I appreciate your help but if you do not have the information please t ell0D > me.0D > Regards Derek0D > > To LEAVE Forum send Email and write in 'Subject/Title' SIGNOFF Forum > > To Post to Forum use the address Forum@boc.net0D > >0D > >0D > -- 0D >20 "Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:50:59 -0700 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: Dereks gear delema " Hello Again Derek, " Just some afterthoughts regarding you problem. I looked up some of the old mails to try and see further the problem you face. I feel the first thing I should do is clarify the relevance the gearbox and rear end have in the overall power of said car. The total overall speed will be determined by the rear axle gear set. In order to have greater top speed you will "sacrifice bottom end speed, and vice versa. The Gearbox is simply designed " to bring the car to final speed(dictated by rear axle) in a desired torque band. You will certainly not get the desired effects without addressing the real problem. Your gearbox and rear axle can only pull so much weight to a certain speed as the motor will allow. I believe to pull any overdrive ratio (less than 1:1) with an unmodified motor not designed for the OD is not going to happen. I feel a good camshaft profile and larger bore and compression may be a good start. Also the Intake and Exhaust have allot of improvements to bring the power out of the motor. I will look up some of the AC gear sets to see where that may gain some but mind you once out in "OD, nothing other than motor power will pull the gear. This was also said " by others in the club who have tried the same thing. The Banks unit I had mentioned has many ratios to choose from though without good motor torque will still force downshifts. My 406 with the big motor requires the same things you mention. This is why I drive a 409 on a regular basis. One last thing is make sure your carbs. are opening full range as I have often seen cars with one or multiple carbs only opening partially. "Look forward to hearing from you, " Shawn bristolusa@earthlink.net "Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:32:23 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Fw: Overdrive Ratios. "On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:03:44 +0100, Derek Hughes A0wrote: " >Hello Shawn >>snip >>A0What do you want to do with your car?. ">A0To refresh the topic, I would like my Bristol 400 which is " fitted with a ">'J' type O/D of 25%,(this can be changed 22% or 27%) a BW CR5 " ">A0ratios previously given) and a 3.9 diff with 16"" wheels and " tyres (not ">15"" ) to perform in a similar manner to my Rover 216 GTI which " has a 5th ">gear. It has plenty of torque, acceleration and speed to cope " >densely populated motorways (Freeways) with some big hills in them. The >engine is only 1600cc and I rarely have to change down to 4th >for traffic conditions. Not so in the 400. A0 >Regards Derek "Derek, " "Just as a matter of interest, how do the power and torque figures " And how does the weight of the two cars compare ? "Regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/11/2000 at 9:24:59 " PM "Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:58:16 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Shawn. You wrote to : "Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 2:33 AM " Subject: RE: Fw: Overdrive Ratios. I am sorry I do not understand what you are talking about you seem to keep "going off at a tangent, similarly in your e mail dated 11th July 2000 03 50. " I will let you know what I finally decide when I have finished rebuilding the engine to increase the torque and H.P. Thank you Derek "Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:52:53 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Fw: Overdrive Ratios. "Bob, " "The aim of my question was to make a point, that is if Derek " answered it. ">Until then, I'd guess you would also want to see the HP &A0torque " " curves, " You are right it's how and when the two cars deliver the power and torque that really matter. Derek is comparing a car developed in 1946 with a modern '90's vehicle and expecting the same performance on motorway (freeway) driving. In the UK the "speed limit on the motorways is 70 mph, although most drivers " take this as the minimum! His Rover may only have a 1600 cc engine but it was developed by Honda when they were probably getting 1000bhp out of their 2 litre F1 engines. I have driven one of the Rovers Derek refers to and they are to a very free revving unit with a red line of at least 6000 rpm. "The Rover also has fuel injection, electronic ignition and a " computerised engine management system to wring the best performance out of the whole package. Also the modern technology used in the rest of the car's drive train would probably result in far less power loss than his Bristol. Bristol was very good at building low loss drive trains because of the precision of their engineering was so high. But one has to wonder what condition Derek's car is in now it is over 50 years old. I also think Derek is being very rude towards Shawn who is only trying to help. I'll stick to the V8 stuff ! Kevin "On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:52:00 -0700, Bob Schmitt A0wrote: " >Kevin - ">I'm staying out of this for a while, but will be at a tech " library ">tomorrow to check what ""theory"" has to say. " ">Until then, I'd guess you would also want to see the HP &A0torque " " curves, " ">probably from a dyno. A0I'd guess ""Hot Rod""* magazine has " probably >covered this topic a bunch of times in the 50 years it's been around! >Bob >*August issue has one guy's theoretical ranking of tranny's >has a shop here in Burbank). A0The top of the list was the Mopar " 904, " >followed by the 727. >> ">>A0Derek, " ">>A0Just as a matter of interest, how do the power and torque " figures for your Bristol 400 compare with your Rover 216 GTI ? >>A0And how does the weight of the two cars compare ? >> "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/12/2000 at 1:19:41 " PM "Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:25:36 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Comparisaon B400/Rover216 Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Kevin. Where is < bigpond > Australia?. You wrote "Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 12:32 PM " Subject: Re: Fw: Overdrive Ratios. ">On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:03:44 +0100, Derek Hughes wrote: " >Hello Shawn " >Derek, " ">Just as a matter of interest, how do the power and torque figures for your " >Bristol 400 compare with your Rover 216 GTI ?> >And how does the weight of the two cars compare ? >snip Interesting question; Rover :- Wt 1095kg kW/HP :- 85/114 @ 6300 rpm no details of torque Bristol 400 :- Wt 1173Kg kW/HP :- -/ 85. @4500rpm. " (when eng rebuilt 125-130HP, with different camshaft " & C.P.R.) The car is fitted with a J type overdrive @ 25%. Regards Derek. "Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:17:23 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Some question about the Forum "Bob, " Would you mind clarifying (or reiterating ) a few things:- Do you actively moderate the Forum content or does it just pass through your computer to a pre defined distribution list ? "If it is moderated what approach do you take, i.e where do you " draw the line and say 'this should not be broadcast to the How many subscribers does the Forum have and are they all members of a Bristol Owner's Club ? Are there any longer term goals for the Forum ? "Kind regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/12/2000 at 10:04:49 " PM "Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:42:07 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Avon safety wheels I have recently bought and imported to Australia a set of second hand Avon Safety wheels from Bristol Cars Service. "I would like to have the wheels, bead blasted, polished and re " painted but I am having great difficulty finding anyone who can or will even attempt to take the tyres off the wheels. Four of the Tyres (VR rated Avon Turbo speeds) are in very good condition and I would like to re fit them once the wheels have been refurbished. The local Avon agents say they would have to destroy the tyres to get them off the wheels - I find it difficult to believe that this is the only way to get them off. "Does anyone know of any detailed information on these wheels, " " including a diagram of what they look like inside the rim, and " some instructions as to how to remove and refit the tyres ? " Worst case, could anyone draw a cross section diagram of the " wheel and tyre and fax it to me ? Several people have said that it needs to be done by hand. Can this be done at home with the correct tools ? "Thanks in advance, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/12/2000 at 10:29:14 " PM "Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:09 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Publishing old Forum emails "As Editor of the Bulletin, I had considered doing a regular feature " "on Forum items in the Bulletin, but lack of time stopped me for 118. " "If anyone out there is interested in doing this for me, then I will " "gladly print it, at say, a page or maybe two per Bulletin (this " would be edited highlights to avoid swamping the Bulletin). Deadline for the next Bulletin is 31 August. Any offers??? I also like the idea of a publication (maybe annual) which has all "the material in it, which could be kept by the re-print secretary " for further distribution. Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:13:42 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Some question about the Forum References: <200007121234.WAA06320@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> "In article <200007121234.WAA06320@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: > Do you actively moderate the Forum content or does it just pass > through your computer to a pre defined distribution list ? Forum is very lightly moderated I actively intercept and remove attachments... because we users agreed it was not desirable to have these. "> If it is moderated what approach do you take, i.e where do you draw " > the line and say 'this should not be broadcast to the Forum' ?# I have not yet nor would I wish take that action. I do reserve the right to intercept and remove any obnoxious or dubious material. I'm currently investigating an application from an anonymous person. It is one of the cornerstones of Forum that writers sign their contributions if only that others can know to whom they are addressing their comment/objection/advice... therefore I can see no sense in trying to join anonymously. But I'm fairly liberal and equally the users have never to my mind overstepped the general parameters of decorum of what is declared on the website to be a child safe medium. I accept that sometimes the subject matter can be boring if its not of interest to individual readers but as has been said before ...you can always use the delete key. > How many subscribers does the Forum have and are they all members > of a Bristol Owner's Club ? Are there any longer term goals for the > Forum ? As far as I know most contributors are in BOC or other Bristol Clubs "around the world. Forum set out to provide a focus, a focal point if " you like where any reasonable question could be asked or answered. As long as it relates to the common interest I would accept it. If the users take exception to something they have but to state so and make their grounds of disagreement. Total membership is gradually increasing but many are happy to receive and read the traffic until they have something to say. I've never done a head count but if you wish I'll transmit the figure current at posting tonight which is 59. This is as I say increasing as people find the facility. I have a list of BOC members email data and will be asking those not signed on if they are aware of the facility. It has been mentioned in the BOC Newsletters which Adrian "Berry sends out, but newer members may not know it exists. " I think there are more subscribed to 'NetNews' but that is not a discussion facility. After all NetNews items can be raised in Forum. Only one person has ever requested to be removed from that list. Which reminds me... there is a comparison of an Alvis and a 406 in the current August edition of Classic and Sportscar vol.19 no.5... I won't spoil it by telling you which comes out on top. O;-)) "Hope this helps, " "cars, Aircraft, Associated Clubs, or of Owner or Members interest. " Remember its your Forum - you choose the subject matter. It takes but a moment to delete data without reading it. "Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:05:13 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Beaufighter story "I don't usually subscribe, but after buying a copy of Amateur " Photographer this week (Vol.194 No.2) - to browse through the adverts for some bits and pieces... I discovered an article on picture taking by Gun operated camera on Bristol Beaufighter see p.49 on. If its of interest to anyone? AP will be on the shelves of WH |Smiths and others for the next six days... remember this Bristol Beaufighter is the one with two engines and a tailfin... "I guess you'd figure that, but just in case... ;-) " "rgds., " Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:16:29 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Beaufighter story "very interested in aerial photography, using a 1944 Folmer Graflex K 20 with " "5"" roll film (dont get me started...)Thanks Stefan " "Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:01:50 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Avon wheels -Tyre fitting > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand "this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. " Dear Kevin. I recently had the Avon's from my 412 fitted with new (Oversize) tyres for a very short time - I later had the same tyres fitted to Blenham 3 wheels. The Avons are now naked ! The fitters had no problem with the Avons but it did need two to deal with them. One held the edge of the tyre clear of the saftey band while the other removed the band. This is held in place by a simple threaded toggle and nut. When loose the band pops out of its croove and and can be taken of the rim. The tyre is then removed just like any other. Absolutely no question of tyres needing to be destroyed. Fitting is just the reverse. Regards David. "Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:18:51 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Avon wheels -Tyre fitting Success! Finally found a tyre fitter who was prepared to take some time and care and we had the first tyre off in under ten minutes. If only the other tyre fitters who had refused to touch my wheels could see how easy it was! Thanks to all who contributed advice on this topic. Kevin Howard "On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 19:01:50 +0100, David Moody-Doyle A0wrote: " >>A0THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand ">this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. " >--MS_Mac_OE_3046359710_145924_MIME_Part ">Content-type: text/plain; charset3D""US-ASCII"" " >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Dear A0Kevin. A0 I recently had the Avon's from my 412 A0fitted >(Oversize) tyres >for a very short time - I later had the same tyres fitted to Blenham 3 >wheels. A0The Avons are now naked ! >The fitters had no problem with the Avons but it did need two to deal with >them. A0One held the edge of the tyre clear of the saftey band while the >other removed the band. A0This is held in place by a simple threaded toggle >and nut. A0When loose the band pops out of its croove and and can be taken of >the rim. A0 The tyre is then removed just like any other. >question of tyres needing to be destroyed. A0 Fitting is just the reverse. >Regards >David. >.. "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/14/2000 at 2:10:35 " PM "Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:00:37 +0100 " From: Tim Meldrum "Subject: Apologies, reviews " Apologies to the list for my recent misplaced posting/attachment. Thought you might be interested to know that when I asked why Top Gear "magazine had reviewed the Blenheim 2 in 1998 but not the Blenheim 3 in 1999, " Angus Frazer (Motoring Editor) replied that Bristol Cars no longer lent cars to his magazine for testing (he also apologised for the omission of the 3 from their listing of current new car info. which he promised to update). Anyone know if there are general reasons why BC don't like to lend out cars "for review, or is it just Top Gear? " And 2nd (related) naive query: I am relatively new to Bristols (as well as to this list) and note that the manufacturers refuse to include estimates of engine power output. I know these sort of figures can give a false "impression of a car's performance, but is there any other reason why this " info. is withheld? And have there been any reviews in which power has been measured at the flywheel/rear wheels of Bristols built from the 1970s onwards? I'm grateful for any help here. Tim. "Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:46 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Beaufighter story Cc: BullEd@boc.net "Bob, " a summary might cause some amusement in the BOC Bulletin (always a good idea) so perhaps you could copy me with it in due course. "regards, " Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:53:57 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Comparison B400/Rover216 Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <001001bfebda$f07105c0$5c06883e@freeserve.co.uk> Hello Bob. "Thank you for your interesting and very informative e mail, it is by far the " best response that I have had to my original question. Your interpretation is correct but there is another aspect too. To recap on the problems these are ; i) the car should be able to pull well in O/D in all speeds "above say 40mph for overtaking as traffic conditions change, " i.e. slow down or speed up as your e mail suggested. I think this a function of torque. ii) the car should not run out of power when it comes to a slow incline on the motorways to cross cities or mountainous terrain "There is obviously a limit, when a down shift will be necessary. " This is a function of power I believe. I am but a simple Electrical Engineer who understands many mechanical problems. Solving them is another but I try. History ; You will probably know the 405 is fitted with a Laycock de Normanville overdrive unit with a 28 % this is the Type 'A' O/D and they cut the chassis cross member to accommodate it. You can convert this to 22% by fitting different sun and planet gears. When these were introduced they were for dual carriage motoring and fitted to give better economy and as the name suggests they are overgeared. Although this generally compares with "the modern 5th gear in a car, I believe the engines today performs much " better. Many B.O. fitted the 'A' type O/D to the 400 - 404 cars only to find that they soon ran out of power on the motorway and were continually IN/OUT of "O/D. Many changed the differential to the 4.2 instead of 3,9 which gave them " a slight improvement. So nearly everyone tells me that I should change the "differential on the 400, but I am not certain this is necessary or desirable " "if you get the engine right, O/D and may be some gearbox changes, although " it is not on my rebuild agenda. It may be a cheaper option than finding a 4.2 diff at reasonable price. They are like hens teeth in the U.K. When I designed the O/D installation for the 400 of the parameters were "that the chassis cross member must not be cut, in fact there should be no " modifications to the gearbox or floor panels. So I made a new gearbox housing adapter and main output shaft and used the L de N 'J' type O/D. This is smaller and slimmer unit and is suitable for up to 4.5 litres engine capacity. A harder clutch is available for racing. The 'J ' Type "O/D is available in the following ratios : 25%, 27% and 28% although the " shaft driving spline is different for the latter. There is also a L.H type at 22% which fits onto my casting which is now available and fits all BW CR gearboxes. I have supplied quite a few O/D unit to members and I normally "recommend the 25% ( only a gut feel), but it performs very well on the 2 " litre cars and is readily available. A chap in Holland has fitted a 27% which he bought second hand from a breakers yard for £40. He is highly delighted with the over benefits and the easy installation. It is very flat in Holland :-). "That's the background, I hope that I have not bored you, if so hit DEL. I " would be very interested to see the figures you worked out. It may confirm my gut feeling or offer a positive solution. On the engine rebuild I am using Cosworth Pistons ( flat topped ) with a "high lift camshaft ( 103 degrees ) used in the racing cars, very torque-y " and with a fully tuned engine will produce about 145hp so I am told. We will see!!. Recently I had a ride in a BMW 328 with this cam fitted and 22% 'A' type O/D and it flew or should I say blew with no top on. It pulled from 30 mph up to 100 mph and the revs were I think just under 4000.!!! Now you may have a better understanding of the problem or be totally confused. However the computer may calculate more accurately. My tyres are 550 by 16 inch. If you are interested in more detail on the O/D I will send you some photographs. Just let me know. Derek Must go and do some jobs. "Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:15:32 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca "Subject: Re: Apologies, reviews " Another magazine prohibited from reviewing their cars?! This suggests something of a lack of confidence on BC's part in their products? The recent brouhaha in the classic magazines with regard to Martin Buckley "seems to be part and parcel of this. As far as I know, there's a black list " of journalists as long as your arm. And the Top Gear review wasn't even bad . . . "As for power output, you can take an educated guess from the equivalent US " "application. For instance, the engine fitted to the top of the line Dodge " "Ram ""Magnum"" pickup truck is not too far away from the Blenheim 3, though " I'm sure Bristol give the engines different performance characteristics/tweaks. regards Shane. "Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:40:36 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Useful RPM/MPH Formulas References: <49dd7d55d9Postmaster@boc.net> Hi to the Forum - The recent discussion of overdrives etc. piqued my curiosity to find a formula to help me understand RPM/MPH relationships. I found what I "wanted in the ""Design & Tuning of Competition Engines"" (Philip Smith) " and then on the Internet. I got tire diameters from a catalog of Michelin & Engelbert vintage "racing tires, as follows: " "550-16 27.1"" " "600-16 27.9"" " "650-16 28.9"" " "The RPM/MPH formula, which is probably known to many of you: " MPH (RPM x wheel diameter in inches)/gear ratio x 336 I think this is the interactive formula that appears at: http://www.quiknet.com/~ke6vut/rpmcalc.html "I put it on a spreadsheet and added an overdrive factor, it all is " "consistent with published ""speed in gears"" table from road tests. So " have fun with this. And there are hundreds more automotive formulas at: http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/HSG/RefCalculators4.html#MECH-AUTO "If the weather is sunny this weekend, don't get started with this web " page! "Bob S. (Burbank, CA) " "Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 23:05:18 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Re: Bristol V-8's References: <3.0.5.32.20000613115843.00a374b0@fs1.mp1> Hi Bob "Been a bit slow getting back, not having a great time at work let's say. " Amazed that a public library has any selection of car books at all. That "saves having to buy those old manuals, can photocopy parts of them at any " time also. "I wish I could get for the project at least the numbers on my cars, " "unfortunately, the 409 is far away in the hills of Los Gatos (actually, I " think the engine block is in some machine shop in Campbell) and I've failed to find the 603 number - but I think I'll make a better effort tomorrow (if I ever get out of work that is . . .) I don't know what the Bristol divergence parts are. The Setright book is "kind of vague on the point, I can read it carefully to pick up the " references he makes to non standard parts but I do recall him saying that there was almost nothing in the engines (except the oil pan) which wasn't a Chrysler part. "I don't know how useful it is to be exhaustive in the list of applications, " "in one way, it's neat to know that the Dart in the junkyard of that " "vintage, might have a 313, but it could also have X other engines. Maybe, " "illustrative cars could be good enough, to help someone order parts? " "Anyway, have a good weekend " Shane "Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 13:33:40 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Hawkins Subject: re Avon Wheels - Tyre Fitting "I needed a new front tyre for my workhorse Citroen, and went to a local " specialist that I had used before. I asked about fitting tyres to Avon "safety wheels, and he said that they can be difficult at times but, yes, he " could do them. He commented that 'There are a lot of old boys out there who don't know what the're doing!' "If you are in Cambridgeshire, try Cole and Day at Somersham. " Geoff Hawkins. "Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:47:23 +0100 " From: Adrian Berry Subject: Re: Wiring diagrams Sender: adrian.berry@armigerhouse.com References: <200007031106.VAA28060@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> In response to a question concerning the whereabouts of the Reprint "Secretary, I am pleased that the good news is that we now have a new Reprint " Secretary:- Nick Purnell Rhydspence Barn Rhydspence Whitney on Wye Herefordshire HR3 6EU I do know that he has an e-mail address but I am not sure of it at present (Perhaps Bob C can help out?) Regards Adrian "Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 00:50:34 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Wiring diagrams References: <200007031106.VAA28060@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> "In article <006d01bfef49$2dfbf000$0d0cd3d4@default>, " Adrian Berry wrote: > (Perhaps Bob C can help out?) I've just heard from Arnold this week-end... but whilst he says Nick is a whiz with computers etc. he did not relay his email address. If I can acquire it I will announce same. Because I'm going to have to change the appropriate pages of the web site. "rgds., " Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 04:55:02 -0400 " From: Nick Purnell <100570.443@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Wiring diagrams Sender: Nick Purnell <100570.443@compuserve.com> "Dear All, " The reprint secretary is here....! Email 100570.443@compuserve.com which by far the best way of contacting me. I'm far from a computer whiz but I do feel that a lot of what we have could be put onto computer to make for easier distribution - a CD Rom of a workshop manual for instance. Looking forward to hearing from everyone but please remember - I'm new at this! "With best wishes, " Nick Purnell "Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:35:04 +1200 (NZST) " From: Lane Smytheman Subject: Protect you 406/407 chassis "I have fitted two non standard items to my 406, primarily to protect the " chassis from underbody mud and moisture and reduce the possibility of any future rust problems 1) Mudflap ( rubber ) for top of rear shock absorber. This stops the accumulation of mud in the top of the chassis extension where the top of the rear shock absorber is attached. There is a small cavity that is a trap for mud and moisture and is an ideal breeding ground for the dreaded rust. ( have you checked yours recently ? ) 2) Side sill undershields - ( as fitted to 403's etc ) These are fitted between the outside of the chassis and the sill below the doors - and the front and rear mudguards. There are two lightweight aluminium panels that are riveted together and the assembly is fixed to the chassis and the recess in the lower sill with PK screws. These are easily fitted and removed. Again these shields stop the accumulation of mud and protect the underbody from rust. This area is very susceptible to rust as it is in line with any mud and dirt thrown up by the front wheels. There is a hole to lower the jack. "Originality is one thing, but long term survival is another. " I assume that these parts may also fit a 407 and possibly 408 but have not been able to check. If you want a drawing of these items send an email and preferably provide "fax No, or postal address. " Lane Smytheman 61 Rothesay Bay Rd Rothesay Bay Auckland 1310 New Zealand. Ph 64-9-478-7426 PS I am also working on a heat reduction Kit / info sheet for the 406 to finally solve that problem. - Did you know that the grill increases the engine temperature by about 4 deg ! "Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:45:28 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: More on Overdirves Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <001001bfebda$f07105c0$5c06883e@freeserve.co.uk> Hi Bob. "A very interesting e mail from Bob Clark he is on the same track as we are, " I agree with most of his comment. I have not had time to fully digest the content but I will study it this weekend whilst at Silverstone and get back to you. I think opting for the high lift cam which is very torque -y is the "right decission. The machining on the block is complete, but I am now " "looking for a good cylinder head, the one I have is a bit iffy having been " well skimmed. Speak to you later. thank you for the follow up info. Derek. "Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:51:46 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: 603S/carbs + Arnolt brakes Does anyone know the type of carburettor fitted to the 603S (and the 603S2 if they are different)? I imagine that it is a Carter 4 barrel of some kind. What kind of brakes were fitted to the Arnolt Bristols during their production run? The Setright book suggests they were 400 units - were the Alfins ever fitted standard? Regards Shane "Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 01:25:57 +0100 " From: Bristol Owners Club Subject: Re: 603S/carbs + Arnolt brakes References: <3.0.5.32.20000724125146.0094f400@fs1.mp1> "In article <3.0.5.32.20000724125146.0094f400@fs1.mp1>, " Shane de Burca wrote: > What kind of brakes were fitted to the Arnolt Bristols during their > production run? The Setright book suggests they were 400 units - > were the Alfins ever fitted standard? Then Setwright was wrong. The undercarriage and wheel Brake drums were ex.Type 403 stock. I defer the question of Alfins to others of more specialist knowledge... but if they followed practice learned on the 401 the Drums at the Rear only would be Standard and those fitted to the front Alfins... Hope this helps Bob Charlton "Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:42:29 -0700 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: RE: 603S/carbs + Arnolt brakes " Hello Shane, " Try a Carter thermo quad. It is built with a bakelite type material for preventing fuel boil or vapor lock in the body. There is a replacement Carter more like the AFB four choke but some regulations in the governing bodies may look at this as tampering with pollution controls. Kind Regards Shawn Thomas > [Original Message] > From: Shane de Burca > To: > Date: 7/24/00 5:37:40 PM > Subject: 603S/carbs + Arnolt brakes > Does anyone know the type of carburettor fitted to the 603S (and the 603S2 > if they are different)? I imagine that it is a Carter 4 barrel of some kind. > What kind of brakes were fitted to the Arnolt Bristols during their > production run? The Setright book suggests they were 400 units - were the > Alfins ever fitted standard? "Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:21:34 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: 603S/carbs Importance: Normal Keywords: BOC "I think my 603S1 originally had a Holley (sp?) carburettor, but seems " happier with a Carter Thermoquad. "Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:07 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: computer indigestion Cc: BullEd@boc.net "Yes, I know this is not a Forum for discussion of computer problems, but " is anyone else having problems receiving Forum mail? Every now and again (twice in 2 weeks) my PC has hung up while importing "mail messages, and I think the problem mail is coming via the Forum or " possibly directly from a BOC contributor. "I should explain that I use an off-line reader for e-mail correspondence, " and usually pick up my messages once or twice a day. The e-mail program does not like my having to re-start the PC to get back in action. regards Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " "Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:28:04 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Wishing to purchase a 603 "Hello, my Name is Luke Hansen a recent new member to the BOC. I would like to " "try and find a useable 603 to ""cherish"" but not at silly money. Does anyone " have any ideas? Any feedback would be appreciated with regards where to look and what to look for when viewing a 603 or similar. Thanks Luke Hansen "Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:53:22 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard "Subject: V8 carbs, Holley's and Carters " My understanding is that the 411 S3 was the only production car " Bristol made which was fitted with a Holley carb, " and wherever possible the Service dept persuaded owners to replace the Holley with a Carter (because of the incendiary tendency of the Holley). I believe all other Bristol V8's up to the Blenheim were originally fitted with Carter four barrel carbs. It seems that quite a few V8 Bristols have been fitted with " Holley carbs at some time during their life, probably because " the phenolic resin base of the Carter Thermoquad had broken down as it tends to do with age. The purpose of the resin base was to reduce the temperature of the fuel which has several benefits. "If you are changing to a new Carter, the AFB is the replacement " Universal Competition Carb. This is a pre 'pollution' carb and it comes fitted with 750 cfm primary jets and metering rods which is near enough for the 400cid engine in the 411 S4&5 and the 412. In fact it may still be okay for the 383cid engines. " The 383's require 625cfm in standard form, but may need a bit " " more if a high performance cam shaft is fitted, which it is in " the case of the 383 in the Bristols. In all cases where the manifold was designed for a Thermoquad an adapter plate will probably be required. These can be purchased (not all Torqueflite models cater for kickdown in the same manner). The fuel flow required by an engine in cubic feet per minute is " dependent on engine capacity, compression ratio, cam shaft " " profile, maximum engine speed and desired power output. " Needless to say it is not a simple equation! If you have a 318cid or 360cid engine as fitted to the 603E and 603S (respectively) then you will need new jets and metering rods to suit. The 603E for example probably only requires about 500 cfm and the 603S probably about 600cfm. This should be " confirmed with someone who knows exactly what is required, such " as Bristol Cars Service dept or Spencer Lane Jones. NB. Even though Carter no longer make a wide range of carbs it is still possible to buy new Carters which are no longer in production because people around the world still have them in their stock. Beware! - although Carter had a long relationship with Chrysler they also made carbs specifically for other companies such as Chevrolet and Ford. So you may be sold a new Carter AFB which was made for a Ford engine (it will have an " electric choke) - take my word for it, do don't want one of " these! Hope this helps. Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/26/2000 at 4:42:01 " PM "Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 07:06:16 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt "Subject: Re: V8 carbs, Holley's and Carters " References: <200007260706.RAA22423@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> Kevin & all - "> If you are changing to a new Carter, the AFB is the replacement for the Thermoquad " and they now only make one which is a Universal Competition Carb. This is a pre 'pollution' carb and it comes fitted with 750 cfm primary jets and metering rods which is near enough for the 400cid engine in the 411 S4&5 and the 412. In fact it may still be okay for the 383cid engines. The "383's require 625cfm in standard form, but may need a bit more if a high " performance cam shaft is fitted... "In addition to the Carter carb, the same item is also sold by Edelbrock " under its own brand (I don't know the licensing arrangement) and can be bought from them directly. Their web site has a wealth of information "on Mopar V-8 engines, including manifolds and adapters: " http://www.edelbrock.com/ "Both the Carter and Edelbrock carbs are sold many places in the US, " "including two major mail order/Internet vendors, Summit Racing: " http://www.summitracing.com and Performance Automotive Warehouse: http://www.pawinc.com/ The only problems I've heard using a Edelbrock v. a Carter is that an adapter may be needed for the air cleaner because of differences in intake diameter. Happy hot rodding! "Bob (in Burbank, home of the ""Road Kings"") " "Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:53 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: computer indigestion Cc: BullEd@boc.net "Thanks Bob, " my feeling is that it is messages coming from Shawn Thomas. Have you had any problems with e-mail from him? Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:22:17 +0200 " From: RA Sylvester Subject: BRISTOL'S IN SOUTH AFRICA "Hi all, " I have just become a member of the club but do not as yet have the privilege of owning a car. I haven't yet decided which model is for me although I like the look of the 411. Having just received my first bulletin (No118) today I shall take great interest in George Bird's article about running a "411 as everyday transport, as I too will want a car for this purpose. Any " suggestions on likely models would be welcome. I am presently living in Johannesburg so am unlikely to buy a car until I return to the UK in a few years time. Does anyone know of a Bristol owner in this neck of the woods? It's nice to join you all. Best wishes Bob Sylvester "Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 10:02:33 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca "Subject: Re: V8 carbs, Holley's and Carters " Thanks all for replies. My intention was to uprate the 2 barrel Carter on a 603E to a four barrel (along with other as yet undecided enhancements - perhaps swirl port heads - a very popular choice here). I had read on some Mopar sites that a 318 could run with a 600 cfm carb but I'm sure that's subject to many "variables. In most cases, it's agreed that the 318 is hardly deficient " "compared to the 360, when treated correctly. " It seems that a Thermoquad or AFB is the choice - I take it from Kevin's last paragraph that the Thermoquad is only available as NOS? It still seems like a better choice over the AFB if it easier complies with emissions "laws, does not require an adapter plate and might be nearer original " equipment. I imagine Thermoquads are plentiful and can easily be rebuilt. Regards Shane "Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 02:31:43 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: Wishing to purchase a 603 Importance: Normal Luke Hansen: There aren't all that many 603s! Perhaps the best course would be to "advertise your interest in the Newsletter, and keep an eye on BOC " publications. Christopher Smithies "Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 06:27:59 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com "Subject: Re: V8 carbs, Holley's and Carters " suggest 4 webers would give far greater efficiency plus performance than the bucket -like Carter and Holleys. ring David Jones on 0207 589 6584 for more details of necessary manifolding. "Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:24:33 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: V8 carbs - Thermoquad. References: <3.0.5.32.20000726100233.00972800@fs1.mp1> Shane - ">From what I've read, the Thermoquad is not exactly popular or " plentiful. It's from the pre-fuel injection era of emission controls "and has a reputation of being sensitive to adjustment and ""fussy"". The " "lower body of the carb is phenolic (or some similar plastic), to provide " "heat isolation. This is allegedly subject to cracking, so you'll see " smaller numbers of the T-Q's on the used or rebuilt market. And that's been my experience at Mopar swap meets. "A few months ago, I found a source on the Internet with a limited supply " "of NOS T-Q's, but did not bookmark that. They are available rebuilt, " from sources such as: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com "Pre-'73 cars are exempt from emission checks in California, so one is " free to try anything under the current law. I'd agree your 318 has more power potential than the rest of a Bristol can probably handle (just an "opinion!), and the hot Mopar V-8 was the 340, with special internal " "parts, built for only a few years. A good summary is at: " http://www.allpar.com/mopar/mopar340.html Bob > My intention was to uprate the 2 barrel Carter on a 603E to a four barrel > (along with other as yet undecided enhancements - perhaps swirl port heads > - a very popular choice here). I had read on some Mopar sites that a 318 > could run with a 600 cfm carb but I'm sure that's subject to many "> variables. In most cases, it's agreed that the 318 is hardly deficient " "> compared to the 360, when treated correctly. " > It seems that a Thermoquad or AFB is the choice - I take it from Kevin's > last paragraph that the Thermoquad is only available as NOS? It still seems > like a better choice over the AFB if it easier complies with emissions "> laws, does not require an adapter plate and might be nearer original " > equipment. I imagine Thermoquads are plentiful and can easily be rebuilt. "Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:37:06 +0100 " From: Andy Bernard Subject: RE: computer indigestion Importance: Normal Haven't had any problems - I read my emails off-line as well with Outlook 2000 - what are you using? Regards Andy Bernard -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Blow [mailto:puffer@cix.co.uk] Sent: 25 July 2000 18:07 Cc: BullEd@boc.net Subject: computer indigestion "Yes, I know this is not a Forum for discussion of computer problems, but " is anyone else having problems receiving Forum mail? Every now and again (twice in 2 weeks) my PC has hung up while importing "mail messages, and I think the problem mail is coming via the Forum or " possibly directly from a BOC contributor. "I should explain that I use an off-line reader for e-mail correspondence, " and usually pick up my messages once or twice a day. The e-mail program does not like my having to re-start the PC to get back in action. regards Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " -- "Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:07:31 +0100 " From: BOC General Registrar Subject: Re: BRISTOL'S IN SOUTH AFRICA "In article <001901bff71d$aba82920$2bed1ec4@endbear>, " RA Sylvester wrote: > I am presently living in Johannesburg so am unlikely to buy a car > until I return to the UK in a few years time. Does anyone know of > a Bristol owner in this neck of the woods? I don't see any listed for SA in our Membership List valid at the moment Bob - but there are at least a couple of dozen about there... Probably more... I think they need contact but don't know where we are. ;-) Try the SA Motor Clubs and you'll soon enough hear about a Bristol if there's one knocking about. Once you make contact the second owner will be much easier. If they don't have their own chapter they are almost certainly asimilated with one of the larger motoring multi make clubs. Hope this helps It runs in my mind that there was a 404 out there for sale a while back. Any news gratefully received.(see sig) Welcome to Forum. Bob Charlton * General Registrar * Bristol Owners Club Club Domain and Website - http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:33:36 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt "Subject: Re: V8 carbs, Holley's and Carters " References: Hi - > suggest 4 webers would give far greater efficiency plus performance than the > bucket -like Carter and Holleys. ring David Jones on 0207 589 6584 for more > details of necessary manifolding. Agree. Horsepower and torque normally respond very well to liberal applications of currency. Bob "Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:09:11 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: 603 carburettors "Among the responses, there seems to be difference of opinion - " "Holley - incendiary, hard to tune, non standard equipment " "Carter Thermoquad - unpopular, crumbles with age, emissions era, standard item " "Carter AFB - pre-emissions, newer model, needs adapter " Weber - a bit left field for an American V-8 "Edelbrock - needs adapter plate, wrong ""name"" " "Since I am subject to Californian emissions, the best choice may be the AFB " "if I can pass emissions, and back to the old Thermoquad if not. Thanks for " the tips on retailers. Regards Shane "Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:05:22 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Re: 603 carburettors References: <3.0.5.32.20000727160911.009c6e70@fs1.mp1> Hi Bob I took a look at the Edelbrock site - I did see the Thermoquad replacement """Performer Q-Jet' it's called. However, it's a 795 cfm carb - great for a " 411 fitted with a big block but perhaps a bit much for a 318? I wonder if they do them with a smaller flow. Shawn Thomas is pretty good at locating "these parts too. Since my car is a '77, I will have to go through fitting " "a cat.converter, etc. " "Without having to resort to a 340, I think that I can rectify some of the " silliness which went into making the 603E. The chassis is basically the same as the that of a Brigand so I think it can take a lot more HP than the """economy"" 318 gives it now. I think the carbs, swirl heads and maybe a " different cam might get me most of the way there. It's a project I'll work on with Shawn when the 409 is back in one piece. Thanks Shane "Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:22:03 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard "Subject: Re: V8 carbs, Holley's and Carters " There is no point investing that much money in the induction end without renewing and improving the rest of the engine and the exhaust system. But then it would probably be cheaper to buy a brand new multi point fuel injected 360 which Bristol first used in the Blenheim. I believe they are identical externally to the 318 " but offer a quantum leap in power, torque and even economy, and " would be a much quieter into the bargain. I believe that is what Norbert Greif has in his 411 S5 (fitted by Bristol). "On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 06:27:59 EDT, A0wrote: " >suggest 4 webers would give far greater efficiency plus performance than the >bucket -like Carter and Holleys. ring David Jones on 0207 589 6584 for more >details of necessary manifolding. "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/28/2000 at 9:59:40 " AM "Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:41:46 +0100 " From: Alan Blackwood "Subject: Bristol 2 Litre engines, some facts. " This is [no longer] a multi-part message in MIME format. "In reply to Andrew Stevens question on valve springs, and my concern " that people20 "are having non-leaded cylinder head conversions, I tender the following " original specifications on the various engine components. "The cylinder head is made from RR50 alloy, and has Brimol hardened valve " "seat inserts, and B8 spark plug inserts.The phosphor bronze valve guides " are in DTD498. In the 85A engines both the valves are made in EN.52 silicon chromium "steel, whereas the 85C engines onwards, the inlet valves are in EN.52 " and the exhaust "valves are in EN.54 nickel chrome tungsten steel, the tips of the valve " stems are hardened locally. "The valve springs are made from DTD.5A steel, both inner and outer " "springs are close coiled at their lower ends, the inner being coiled " left hand while the outer is coiled right hand. The loading being 24lb closed and 54lb open. "The tappets are chill cast to BSS.321/A, " Unless you intend to race your car ( high R.P.M ) I suggest that you let "sleeping dogs lie, that is to continue to use the car until the engine " "needs an overhaul, then you may wish to fit new valves of a higher " specification (i.e. from the nimonic range of materials). May be someone can let us know what supplies of these are available. Anyway20 "any abnormal reduction in tappet clearance would indicate wear. However, " "most important, the width of the valve seats should be between 0.060"" " "and 0.090"" , any " greater width would cause valve bounce and would subsequently reduce the life. This dimension can only be achieved by grinding the seats with angled "grinding stones, and lapping the valves to them. " I do not think it is a very good idea to spend money on changing valve seat20 inserts when the prospect is that the engine will most likely run on for "years without any trouble, Bristol did build them well. " "I hope these few words will be of help, the Bristol has always been " ahead of the rest. "My regards, " Alan Blackwood "Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 05:32:31 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com "Subject: Re: Bristol 2 Litre engines, some facts. " masterly discourse "Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:20:11 +0100 " From: stephen myciunka Subject: Bristol related books FS & WTB "A copy of Oxley-Sidey's ""The Quiet Survivor"" for sale - offers invited. " Copy of Oxley's second book wanted to buy. "Rgds, " Steve Myciunka "Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:18:12 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com "Subject: Re: Bristol 2 Litre engines, some facts. " thanks to turbosim for fascinating and erudite metallurgical details re the 2 "litre engines, ; how do these metals eg en52, en54 etc etc compare with what " manufacturers (great and small) use nowadays? Stefan "Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:04:05 +1200 (NZST) " From: Lane Smytheman Subject: 406 front bumper assy I have a lated model 406 (chassis No 5286 ) with bumper mounted fog and spot lights. This is the overider type bumper. Can someone please advise me if the spot and fog light vertical brackets go "in front or behind the main exterior bumper brackets.? I assume behind, " i.e. close to the body. Also do the aluminium bracket shield plates have the small end of the taper "towards the body, and is the front edge of this plate in line with the " inside edge of the bumper or tucked just inside the top lip of the bumper. As guide what is the dimension between the inside top edge of the bumper in the centre and the crank handle hole cover plate - and also the dimension between the spot and fog light holes and the top inside edge of the bumper. I have remanufactured new bumper mounting arms from the rusty remains but not enough info work out the correct distance between the bumper and the body . My other 406 is an early model with lights in the grille and the bumper exterior supports and bumper shape / angle in the centre is quite different. Lane Smytheman. "Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:50 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: computer indigestion Cc: BullEd@boc.net Thanks Bob. Computers just cause confusion I guess! I use a program called Ameol supplied by CiX who are a UK based ISP. They "also have a very good conferencing system, which is why I joined in the " first place. Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:50 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: RE: computer indigestion Cc: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com To Andy Bernard I use a program called Ameol supplied by CiX who provide a conferencing and internet access service. "Seems I am alone in having problems, so will pursue the solution " elsewhere. Thanks for everyone's patience. Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:03:02 +0100 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: Bristol 409 Engine tuning... "Folks, " My trusty 409 started running rough on the return from Silverstone on Sunday 23rd July - at first I thought it was that the 'scotch mist' that had been particularly prevalent at the weekend was interfering with the electrics. "Symptoms were - occasional mis-firing on sudden acceleration, feeling " that "it was only running on seven cylinders when overrunning, rough running " after "starting. To be fair, I had suspected for a while that things were not " all "smooth, but I could not clearly identify a symptom. " After a 90 mile run home I was sure that there was sufficient heat in the engine to have dried things out - and the situation was much the same. I inspected the spark plugs and all showed a good running colour - except that no. 2 cylinder had a build-up of a brown deposit that was very fragile. When scraping the deposit with a fingernail half of the insulator fell away! I felt glad that I had looked! The deposit was sufficient to have caused "poor ignition I am sure. As I have no replacements, I did not look at " the distributor cap/rotor arm/points but these are surely next. "By the way, how the hell are you supposed to get access to no. 4 spark " plug? My hands are too big and my arms clearly lack a couple of joints just above the wrist. I spent nearly 2 hours trying to get the old plug out due to the close proximity of the steering column. Now - here is my question: What is the correct type of spark plug for this car? Fitted were Champion BY12YC (I think). The local auto-shop looked them up and found that there are direct Bosch and NGK replacements being WR8FC and BP5S respectively. "Another motor factor, who seemed very knowledgeable about spark plugs " and "older engines, noted that the ones that were in the vehicle are 'low " running temperature' types and had old stock of a Champion replacement with a longer "thread, that shrouded more of the insulator. These were L90s. He also " had some even lower temperature plugs that would have been used as 'summer "plugs' at the time, apparently. These were L76s. He charged me A310 " for 10 L90s - probably a bargain? I ordered some replacements for the originals from the first shop as a safe measure. I also bought the L90s to get the thing running - and it does run nicely again. But I do have to ask whether I should be using the so-called summer plugs at the moment - since most journeys are long-ish. In 2 weeks I am taking it to Surrey for a weekend so there is about 300 miles of high-speed driving coming up. Comments are welcome. "Also, I sort of know that V8s are difficult to feed evenly with " fuel/air but is the hot running of no. 2 cylinder a known issue with this engine? It is the 318 cu inch Chrylser A series engine. I note that the metal heat shield above the exhaust manifold has mostly gone on that side of the engine (except the bit that nearly took my forefinger off just by number 4 cylinder!). Any tips/tricks for tuning/adjusting the engine? Anyone have available part numbers for replacement points/rotor arm/distributor head? I plan to get the car serviced by Bristol or one of the well known supporters but I'd feel better with a set in the boot. Cheers Ian "Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:18:49 +1200 (NZST) " From: Lane Smytheman Subject: Re: Bristol 409 Engine tuning... The Bristol 409 Spares handbook shows that the original spark plug was an Autolite A32. This was also specified for the 408 MK 2 and the 410. No doubt this number is now out of date but you local expert may be able to find a modern equivalent.20 The original distributor is given as part No 2095981. The contact set Part No is 2098244. I assume that these are Bristol Part No's - but not sure. Regards20 Lane Smytheman -------------------------------------------------------- "At 15:03 31/07/00 +0100, you wrote: " ">Folks, " >My trusty 409 started running rough on the return from Silverstone on Sunday >23rd July - at first I thought it was that the 'scotch mist' that had been >particularly prevalent at the weekend was interfering with the electrics. ">Symptoms were - occasional mis-firing on sudden acceleration, feeling that " ">it was only running on seven cylinders when overrunning, rough running " after ">starting. To be fair, I had suspected for a while that things were not all " ">smooth, but I could not clearly identify a symptom. " >After a 90 mile run home I was sure that there was sufficient heat in the >engine to have dried things out - and the situation was much the same. I >inspected the spark plugs and all showed a good running colour - except that >no. 2 cylinder had a build-up of a brown deposit that was very fragile. >When scraping the deposit with a fingernail half of the insulator fell away! >I felt glad that I had looked! The deposit was sufficient to have caused ">poor ignition I am sure. As I have no replacements, I did not look at the " >distributor cap/rotor arm/points but these are surely next. ">By the way, how the hell are you supposed to get access to no. 4 spark " plug? >My hands are too big and my arms clearly lack a couple of joints just above >the wrist. I spent nearly 2 hours trying to get the old plug out due to the >close proximity of the steering column. >Now - here is my question: >What is the correct type of spark plug for this car? Fitted were Champion >BY12YC (I think). The local auto-shop looked them up and found that there >are direct Bosch and NGK replacements being WR8FC and BP5S respectively. ">Another motor factor, who seemed very knowledgeable about spark plugs and " ">older engines, noted that the ones that were in the vehicle are 'low " running >temperature' types and had old stock of a Champion replacement with a longer ">thread, that shrouded more of the insulator. These were L90s. He also had " >some even lower temperature plugs that would have been used as 'summer ">plugs' at the time, apparently. These were L76s. He charged me A310 for " 10 >L90s - probably a bargain? >I ordered some replacements for the originals from the first shop as a safe >measure. I also bought the L90s to get the thing running - and it does run >nicely again. But I do have to ask whether I should be using the so-called >summer plugs at the moment - since most journeys are long-ish. In 2 weeks I >am taking it to Surrey for a weekend so there is about 300 miles of >high-speed driving coming up. >Comments are welcome. ">Also, I sort of know that V8s are difficult to feed evenly with fuel/air " but >is the hot running of no. 2 cylinder a known issue with this engine? It is >the 318 cu inch Chrylser A series engine. I note that the metal heat shield >above the exhaust manifold has mostly gone on that side of the engine >(except the bit that nearly took my forefinger off just by number 4 >cylinder!). >Any tips/tricks for tuning/adjusting the engine? Anyone have available part >numbers for replacement points/rotor arm/distributor head? I plan to get >the car serviced by Bristol or one of the well known supporters but I'd feel >better with a set in the boot. >Cheers >Ian >--20 "Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 06:57:46 +0100 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Bristol 2 Litre valves (Stefan's question) As the output of engines has increased the specification of the components has had to keep pace with development. The original Bristol engines had valves of the same material ( EN.52 ). As there is a difference between the operating conditions between inlet "and exhaust valves, ( the inlet is cooled by the colder air entering the " engine ). Bristol changed the exhaust valves to a better specification to deal with the increased power they were producing. They are operating well within their range in normal road cars. Modern high performance engines ( turbocharged etc. ) use valves made "from a nimonic steel, this is the material which gas turbine rotor " blades are made from ( as used in aircraft ) because it can stand very high temperatures. I know that there are people supplying replacement valves for Bristol "engines, some with 8mm valve stems which allow you to ream out the " "original valve guides. However, I do not know the specification of these " valves. May be someone can let us know what is available? I hope this is of help. Alan Blackwood [ Mime attachment removed - Postmaster ] If you don't know how to - visit the Forum page on the Website NOW "Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 08:14:29 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Bristol 409 Engine tuning... References: <200007312218.KAA19536@fep4-orange.clear.net.nz> Hello Lane - > The Bristol 409 Spares handbook shows that the original spark plug was an > Autolite A32. This was also specified for the 408 MK 2 and the 410. No > doubt this number is now out of date but you local expert may be able to > find a modern equivalent. > The original distributor is given as part No 2095981. The contact set Part > No is 2098244. I assume that these are Bristol Part No's - but not sure. "Both of these PN's look like Mopar numbers, albeit from a fairly ""old"" " series. 2098244 is listed on partsvoice.com (a US-wide general parts search service) as being available at several Chrysler dealers locally. Updated equivalents should be very widely available. "Also, the ""wisdom"" on most Chrysler V-8's is that Autolite brand spark " "plugs are preferred. I have no idea why, but most Chrysler product " owners I've heard from say their cars run better with Autolites. (Autolite was owned by Ford for many years but is now part of "Allied-Signal, I believe.) " Bob "Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 09:48:18 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes "Subject: Re: Bristol 2 Litre engines, some facts. " Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <48.8dc09eb.26b57704@cs.com> Hello Stefan. "Thinging of making some valves,? try austenitic 21-4N stainless steel and " then have them tufrided. Bye Derek. "Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:06:18 +0100 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: Protect you 406/407 chassis References: <200007180035.MAA14155@fep4-orange.clear.net.nz> ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Lane Smytheman"" " "Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 1:35 AM " Subject: Protect you 406/407 chassis > 1) Mudflap ( rubber ) for top of rear shock absorber. > 2) Side sill undershields - ( as fitted to 403's etc ) an email and preferably provide "> fax No, or postal address. " > Lane Smytheman > 61 Rothesay Bay Rd > Rothesay Bay > Auckland 1310 > New Zealand. > Ph 64-9-478-7426 "Yes please Lane I would love to receive details of your mods for my 407 , I " cannot E mail you direct as the forum does not have the facility my fax number is +441284787604 it is a dedicated fax and always switched on. Thank you Nick Challacombe. "Two Oaks, " "East Barton, " Bury St Edmunds. Suffolk England IP31 2QY "Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:51:12 +0100 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: Bristol related books FS & WTB References: <000d01bffa18$2388f300$679443d4@oemcomputer> ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""stephen myciunka"" " "Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 12:20 PM " Subject: Bristol related books FS & WTB "> A copy of Oxley-Sidey's ""The Quiet Survivor"" for sale - offers invited. " I have not a Clue as to its worth as a new member I have heard about it. I bought one of the Ltd Edition Bristol books form the Palawin press and would like to buy yours for my Bristol collection. Phone 01284788186. Nick Challacombe. "Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:56:43 +0100 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: 406 front bumper assy References: <200007310504.RAA28222@fep3-orange.clear.net.nz> ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Lane Smytheman"" " "Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:04 AM " Subject: 406 front bumper assy "If 406 is same as 407 , I will measure all mine and let you know. " I know the bodies are built by different people but the Chassis and Bumpers appear the same on late models except for engine mountings and suspension and steering. If anybody can confirm this I will sent Lane the info but do not want to send duff info. Nick Challacombe. "Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 11:37 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: 406 front bumper assy Cc: puffer@cix.co.uk "Lane, " "I have a 406 in stock at the moment, 406 HAR (#5238) and will go and " measure things for you. This is the car pictured in my current advert on "the rear inside cover of Bulletin 118. As far as I know it is ""correct"". " best regards Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " "Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:50:47 +0200 " From: karel buijink Subject: Questions 411 s2 "Hello , " I am a dutch member and owner of a 411 s2 .I think that I am one of the few "which drives a bristol at gas , I drove 30.000 miles in a year and a half at " gas . When there are members who want to know something about driving a "bristol at gas : e- mail me . Then I think there are very few interested , " so no subject for forum talk . At the moment I have two questions about my s2 : I need a head break pump " according my garagist ) , does anybody know where to get it or what other " type of car uses the same ; the same questions with respect to the outlet gaskets . I will be very gratefull to hear something from any of you . "Best regards , " NB. Excuses for my bad english . Drs. K. Buijink KB Projecten Langakkers 18 9469 RA SCHIPBORG E-mail: kfj@karel-buijink.demon.nl "Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 07:20:23 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Re: Questions 411 s2 (Gas) "Hello Karel, " I am a member of the BOC although not yet an owner of a Bristol. I am "currently looking to purchasea a 603, which I would like to use on a regular " "basis, but the high cost of fuel in the UK means that this may not be " "possible, unless I were to convert to LPG or similar. Back in the early " "1980's LPG was quite popular for a time in England, usually with Taxi drivers " and I did have an ex-taxi (a Ford) for a little while which had been "converted, and it was actually quite good. I think that I started it on " "petrol and when it was ""warm"" I switched over to LPG. I was thinking that " this may be the answer to the huge cost of running a Bristol V8 - if it could be converted at a reasonable cost - because unleaded petrol here is currently 82.5 pence per litre (and that has just been reduced a little from 85.9 pence a few days ago due to the falling crude oil price). I would really appreciate any information and comments that you may have on this subject. Hope to hear from you soon. "Kind regards, " Luke Hansen. "Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 17:11:23 +0100 " From: David Bard Subject: 411 Mk. 1 Ride height I have recently completed the restoration of my 411 Mk. 1. With new coil springs in the front suspension the rear of the car seems somewhat low. I would be grateful if someone could tell me what the ride height at the rear should be and from where the measurements are taken. "Many thanks, " David Bard "Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 18:32:09 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: gas Bristols "Regarding Luke Hansen's query on LPG, I have just had my 603 converted. She " appears to be running just as she was on petrol except it now costs me A328 "to fill up the 20 gallon capacity. The cost of conversion was A32,300 split " "roughly half and half between the kit (cost price, but I did want the large " tanks) and labour. If the garage I had it done at were to do another I know the labour would be less now that I've paid for the development! I've yet t o "do enough mileage to check the fuel consumption but can report back later, " meanwhile performance seems pretty similar. There's slightly more induction roar because the original air filter had to be ditched for a 'pancake' type . Boot space is restricted because of the tanks but there has to be a downsid e "somewhere. Incidently, Colin Goodwin from Autocar is thinking of having his " Chevy pick-up converted and will be coming to look at my car to see how it works. I shall be at Brooklands on the 27th and would be happy to talk abou t it to any interested parties. "On a different tack, my bumpers have been powder-coated black and a chromin " g company said they couldn't be rechromed because the metal was too thin. I "will get a second opinion on this. Bristol have quoted A31,000 per bumper " new! A friend of mine who designs and has manufactured outdoor furniture fo r "councils reckons he could make new ones, laser cut and polished in stainles " steel for a quarter of that. Should we get a production line going? "I'm actively pursuing fitting 16"" wheels to the 603. Anyone have any " thoughts on this? With lower profile tyres the height can be maintained but "the width is an unknown quantity. Blenheims have 6.5"" rims, is that the " limit? "Regards, Nic Raine " "Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:43:36 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Wheel replacement - 603 "Dear Nic, " I have recently fitted Blenheim 3 wheels to my 412s1. They are I "belive eight inch width, fifteen dia. By fitting 65 profile tyres rather " than 70 the rolling radius remains about the same. This set up has improved the car greatly and I have encountered no problems. New wheel studs are required however. Bristol supplied both wheels and studs and the price was similar to that quoted by others. "Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 12:37:35 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: Re: Wheel replacement - 603 "Dear David, " "Thanks for that. Are they really 8"" wide? Brian Marelli quoted A3150 for " Blenheim wheels but would give me an allowance on my Avons. Are wheel nuts included at this price? "Regards, Nic " ---------- ">From: ""David Moody-Doyle"" " >To: Forum@boc.net >Subject: Wheel replacement - 603 ">Date: Mon, Aug 7, 2000, 10:43 am " "> Dear Nic, " > I have recently fitted Blenheim 3 wheels to my 412s1. They are I "> belive eight inch width, fifteen dia. By fitting 65 profile tyres rather " > than 70 the rolling radius remains about the same. This set up has > improved the car greatly and I have encountered no problems. New wheel > studs are required however. Bristol supplied both wheels and studs and t he > price was similar to that quoted by others. "Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 14:28:48 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Wheel Replacement "Dear Nic, " Yes the wheels are 8 inch to the best of my recollection. I belive the price did include the new nuts. I did have to buy a new wheel brace to suit. The standard one will not fit. This too came from Bristol and cost A325. Regards: David. "Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 21:54:37 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: 412 Handbrake adjustment Can any one advise on how one adjusts the handbrake on 412/411 models ? I have so far failed to find where the cable adjusters are located. "Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 09:30:27 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Wheel Replacement "David & Nic, " If that includes the stainless steel wheel nuts then it represents very good value. I was quoted 20 pounds each per SS wheel nut for my Avons and Brian Marelli told me that the SS nuts were those now used on later model Bristols. "David, why did the studs need to changed ? (were they too long " or was the diameter/thread or spacing different ?) Brian didn't mention this to me when he was talking about alternative Bristol wheels to the Avons for my 411 S5. Maybe he was talking about alloy wheels from the earlier Blenheim models. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Mon, 07 Aug 2000 14:28:48 +0100, David Moody-Doyle A0wrote: " ">Dear Nic, " >A0A0A0A0A0A0Yes the wheels are 8 inch to the best of my recollection. >I belive the price did include the new nuts. A0I did have to buy a new wheel >brace to suit. The standard one will not fit. A0This too came >and cost A325. >Regards: David. "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 08/08/2000 at 9:02:51 " AM "Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 10:22:03 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: RE: Wheel Replacement and other tools "David,20 " "What is special about the wheelnuts that justifies a ""Bristol's own"" " wheelbrace - or were you just being fastidious? 20 "Seriously though, won't an ordinary motor accessory X-shaped wheelbrace " (or better still one of those splendid extending arm wheel-nut wrenches) do the job for Bristol wheelnuts? Presumably Quikfit fitter/tyre changers use their normal pneumatic machines to whip the nuts off? (Knowledgeable owners pls forgive my ignorance) More general point - do Bristol wheelnuts differ between models? "Another ""pls forgive ignorance"" area: which models if any utilise a " crank "handle and is this ""standard"" (ie identical for all 400-406; are the " V8's hand-crankable?) ? Final point: what should normally be in a factory-provided toolkit as provided new on the carriage of one's preference? Typically on a eurojap "tin box you get a jack, a wheelnut spanner and one or two others + a " screwdriver (unless of course you are fortunate enough to have a Lada.....); "1950's cars were also provided with the all-too-essential crank handle, " a feature which I gather continued at least with Land Rovers for quite a long time. How generously-provided were/are Bristols? Douglas Wilson (BOC but still not yet a BO!)(the 450 don't count -it's only a Dinky!) -----Original Message----- From: David Moody-Doyle [mailto:david.md@virgin.net] Sent: 07 August 2000 14:29 Subject: Wheel Replacement "Dear Nic, " Yes the wheels are 8 inch to the best of my recollection. I belive the price did include the new nuts. I did have to buy a new wheel brace to suit. The standard one will not fit. This too came from Bristol and cost A325. Regards: David. "Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 12:02:26 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Wheel replacement questions "To Kevin, Douglas, et al. " The new wheel brace was required because the recess in Blenheim 3 wheels ha insufficient clearance to accept the original brace. The new one is a standard extending long arm brace as available in any Halfords but the socket has been turned down to a smaller diameter to fit the very tight clearance between nut and recess. I had tried Spiders and Halfords long arm braces - none would fit. The nuts differ from Avon types in the radius of the washer / spacer and the overall diameter of the nut / spacer . The studs are the same thread and dia. Having said all that the tyre fitters who fitted the new wheels and tyres did butcher the threads on two hubs of my car fitting the new wheels nuts. I had to replace some studs an d nuts in the end. These came from Bristol and coast A360 for 5 new studs and nuts. "I am not sure about the stainless question, I do not know If Bristol have " since changed the spec on the latest batch. I believe the latest Blenhiem 3 wheels do differ from earlier Blenheim models but I am unsure as to what those differences might be. My 412 is not hand crankable and I would hate to try turning over a 400ci v 8 if it was. Other than a wheelbrace and jack my car had no toolkit but I can't say if i t did when new. I suspect not. "Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:13:01 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: 603 prices "Luke, " You are probably looking in the right places for a 603 but anyway I would "suggest: owner's club magazine, classic car magazines, auction listings " (usually on web sites - three went through in the past year). Guide prices: "Regards, Nic " "Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:16:31 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Towing Brackets 406 to 412 I have been contacted by a company trading in the above mentioned items. They all seem to be 158 UK Pounds excluding electrics which can be supplied at extra cost. Models and years are listed on their website www.towingbrackets.com This is neither a recommendation nor a discouragememt... I know nothing about the company. As I recall it someone posed the question where could they obtain information about the topic. This might be the answer if the car was one of those included. Hope this helps "rgds., Bob Charlton " Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ nyc-ntgw-n01.ny.jpmorgan.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.4 (830.2 3-23-1999)) "Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:41:50 +0100 " From: Andersen Y Cheng Subject: Car Cover for a Bristol 404 "As the restoration of my 404 is nearing completion, I need to buy an indoor " cover for it. "I recall in one of the earlier bulletins, there was an advert for fitted Bristol " "covers including the 404, I am wondering if anyone has bought from that company " before and if the quality is good. I would be grateful if someone could give me "the contact details of that firm. I am fitting side mirrors above the doors, so " "I need to make allowance for the ""fittedness"". " "Alternatively, please let me know if you can recommend a better manufacturer. " "Thanks & Regards, " Andersen Cheng This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument "or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data " and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein "do not necessarily reflect those of J.P. Morgan & Co. Incorporated, its " subsidiaries and affiliates. "Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:57:36 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: 100MPH tyres for 16 inch wheels "Forum participants, " I'm not sure if there were answers to the questions about where to source tyres for enthusiastic 400-9 Bristolling? It occured to me that a club the size of/with the assets of BOC might be able to negotiate supplies from carefully-chosen tyre manufacturers? Receiving delivery and storage could be a problem though.... what do the VCC and VSCC do? "N vehicles, averaging M miles per year, needing a spare on average every P " "miles after a puncture, and a full set every W miles because they've worn " "out.... er what's the annual order quantity Q f(N,M,P,W) ? (However DID I " get those GCEs?) Douglas W. for "Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 21:11:08 +0100 " From: Mr Clive Foster Subject: 603 Costs and Inspection Tips Luke Nics price examples look about right But if you are looking at the cheaper end of the market you will almost certainly have to budget for work to be done. These cars are pretty old now and cheaper examples will have collected the usual share of bodges which will have to be fixed. I don't think you can realistically expect to get a 603 in good useable "condition for less than about A39,000 to A310,000. It might cost less but yo " u "will spend the difference in the first year or two, this estimate does not " "include minor spares and running replacements eg tyres,oil, filters, brake " pads and so on. Having spent that you should have have a worry free car for the next ten years or so unless you do silly mileage. "Take a mate when you view. A good looking, sweet running, car can hide a " host of problems under the skin "I paid A36,000 for mine (which was too much) due to having a deal for freeby " "welding which promptly fell through. I shall end up spending about A31,000 o " n "bits, A31,500 to A32,000 on welding and A3300 on chrome. The car will look " "good, be solid, nice inside and run well but concors it wont be. " "Do hit the rust suspects hard when checking, mine had some really solid " bodges. 10 layers of gaffa tape and 10 coats of underseal makes a solid replacement for rusted out front halves of the rear wheel arches! Half an inch of underseal in the door bottoms makes them feel solid too! Don't trust older repairs. They may be solid outside but first time quick fixes usually upset chassis and body drains leaving the tinworm to chomp away at the chassis in comfort. Mine looked as if the undersill area had been solidly fixed up to the A-post leaving me to carry on forward. Deeper investigation after removing the ally outer sill showed that only the botto m "plate was solid, most of the stucture under the floor and outer side of the " chassis was gone. Basically the whole sill area on both sides had been ful l of water for extended periods. Fortunately there are no stupid compound curves in there so fixing is possible once you track down someone willing t o handle the sheer size of the parts. Good hunting "Clive Foster, Harwell, Figg Lane, Crowborough, Sussex, TN 6 2PD " "Phone 01892 610931, E-mail clive_foster@talk21.com-- " "Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:59:30 +0100 " From: roger pugh Subject: practical classics article Just to let everyone know there is a 2 page article in the september issue of Practical Classics on page 90. Buyers datafile Bristol 407-411 roger. "Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 15:43:45 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Newsletters & Bulletins Anyone tell me when we are supposed to receive the above publications? When was the last edition of each? "Many thanks, " Luke Hansen "Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:09:39 +0200 " From: Teb Marius Subject: Re: Bristol Double Decker Organization: World Access References: <000e01c0051d$f0bbbdc0$48859fd4@rogerpug> "Dear all, " I have received a request for any information on the supply of spare-parts for a Bristol engined Double Decker made in 1966. Preferred location in Belgium. Any suggetions?? Wouldn't it make an ideal Holiday Home for any BOC member on the move. "Best regards, Teb Marius " "Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:47:21 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Questions 411 s2 (Gas) but if you do convert to LPG you wont be able to take it on the Chunnel "shuttle FOR SOME REASON.... ,, ..sTEFAN " "Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:34 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Newsletters & Bulletins Last bulletin (118) came out late June. Next due mid Oct (I hope!) 3 bulletins are planned per year. "regards, " Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " "Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:58:57 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Fwd: BRISTOL From: KRISTOF NEYT Date: 21 Aug 2000 0855 Subject: BRISTOL Mailing-List: BOC Forum "Hello, my name is Kristof Neyt from Belgium. I'm searching for " spare-parts of a Bristol double-deck LONDON bus build in 1966. Can someone give me a hint where i can find them? Greatings. ------ End forwarded message ------ "Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:53:35 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com "Subject: Bristol, The Quiet Survivor " Anyone out there know how I may be able to obtain a copy of the above (out of print) book which I think was written by Charles Oxley? Your help would be appreciated! "Thanks, " Luke Hansen "Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:11:36 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: gas cars "Stefan is right, they don't let lpg cars on the chunnel, however Autoexpress " did 'smuggle' a bi-fuel Volvo on without being stopped. They're hardly "likely to suspect a Bristol of having lpg. Mind you, with my 100 litre tanks " "in my 603 boot, it's our Volvo estate every time just so we can fit all the " "wine in! For those of you interested, I've now done several hundred miles on " lpg and am getting just over 12mpg. How does that compare with petrol? "Regards, Nic " "Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:27:16 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: gas cars "Nic, " For any meaningful comparison you really need to consider what mpg your car will deliver 'around town' and on a long motorway run (without any road works/accidents/traffic jams!). What does the 12 mpg figure represent ? The man who is fuel injecting my 411 S5 is promising 18 mpg on " the town cycle and 22-24 on a long higher speed run, even after " the engine has been bored out to 452 cid! I never measured the " engine had been poorly reconditioned, the fuel pump was leaking " and it had the wrong carby on it "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:11:36 +0100, Nic Raine A0wrote: " ">Stefan is right, they don't let lpg cars on the chunnel, however " Autoexpress >did 'smuggle' a bi-fuel Volvo on without being stopped. They're hardly ">likely to suspect a Bristol of having lpg. Mind you, with my 100 " litre tanks ">in my 603 boot, it's our Volvo estate every time just so we can " fit all the ">wine in! For those of you interested, I've now done several " hundred miles on >lpg and am getting just over 12mpg. How does that compare with petrol? ">Regards, Nic " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 08/27/2000 at 9:13:50 " PM "Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:04:42 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Re: gas cars "Nic, " Does the 12mpg figure actually mean that you are saving money because of the cost per litre of the LPG? "Regards, " Luke Hansen "Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:58:19 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: RE: gas cars: 603 mpg Importance: Normal Standard but with Carter thermoquad and electric fuel pump on the 360ci "engine, I'm getting 17.6 mpg on long fast journeys (averaging 70 mph) and 15 " "mpg on shorter runs, the air conditioning on perhaps half the time at " present. "Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:10:33 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: more gas "My fuel consumption figure so far, and I say so far because I gather a car " "converted to LPG becomes 'used' to it and it will improve slightly, comes " "from local journeys through my town (not quite London traffic), pootling " through the countryside and motorway trips at 80 mph. LPG is half the cost of petrol so that is the financial saving (once you've recouped the cost of "conversion, if you look at it that way). I gather there is a new system " coming out whereby the fuel is injected directly through nozzles into the manifold resulting in more power. "Talking of motorway journeys, I do feel my 603 is undergeared, 80mph at a " "tad over 3,000 rpm. Has anyone retro-fitted the Chrysler four-speed " overdrive box? There is a company called G. Whitehouse Autos Ltd. who fit the Jaguar XJ40 4-speed to classic cars. I see from their web-site (www.insites.co.uk/classic/jaguar/gwhitehouse) that they test reconditioned 'boxes on a Chevy V8 which implies that they could take the torque of our engines. The Jaguar 'box has a 'J' gate selector which enables one to use it as a manual as well as an auto. Was chatting with a chap at Brooklands yesterday with a 412 with ventilated front discs (Iveco van?) and four-pot calipers (from a Peugeot I think). Anybody have these details? "Regards for now, Nic " "Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:15 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: more gas Cc: BullEd@boc.net "reference the uprated brakes, I assume you were talking to Robin Sturdy " (dark red 412) who had the work done by ... Spencer Lane-Jones. In a 411 "S2 in the Pyrenees (? spelling!) this year, with 3 up and some luggage, we " had bad brake fade coming down the 6th pass that day (and it was hot) so I would recommend this mod if you intend a lot of pass storming. "ref transmissions, G Whitehouse used to advertise in the Bulletin and I " "think was, and maybe still is, a 411 owner. Converting a 411 onwards to a " "4 speed transmission is a good idea, and not (I understand) that " difficult. "regards, " Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " "Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:25:50 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: SIGNON Forum References: <000a01c01396$57c93480$088d883e@default> "In article <000a01c01396$57c93480$088d883e@default>, " Geoffrey Pritchard wrote: > Please sign me up - how do I access earlier contributions of > interest ? Hello Geoffrey welcome to Forum. "You are signed on, and by now should have received an acknowledgement " of same. I note you have attachments switched 'on' which duplicates your message in html format thanks to the Microsoft Outlook Express software. Its a good idea to leave this function switched off because it saves you time on-line too! loading time to no additional benefit. Please try to ensure this aspect is switched off before transmissions to Forum. Its done either an via untick item box on your screen or chooice set in your load up sequence preferences. To help you there are notes to this effect on the Forum page of the website. http://www.boc.net/bristol/forum.html If I recall it correctly Bob Schmitt has stored all data and on reading this can I hope steer you to the storage address. "Rgds., Bob Charlton " "cars, Aircraft, Associated Clubs, or of Owner or Members interest. " Remember its your Forum - you choose the subject matter. It takes but a moment to delete data without reading it. "Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 17:34:56 +0100 " From: Andy Bernard Subject: Bristol 403 article Importance: Normal In this month's Thoroughbred & Classic Cars there is an article comparing (?) a 403 with the 1952 Cooper F2. Also one on the 1970 Ford Capri 1600 GT XLR...... Andy Bernard "Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 05:58:26 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: BOC Forum archive "Dear Mr Schmitt, " I saw a posting on the BOC forum site the other day regarding the archiving "of previous articles, etc. on the subject of Bristols and other relevant " discussions conducted via the forum. I should be most obliged if you could also point me in the direction of the storage area. Hope to hear from you soon. "Kind regards, " Luke Hansen 4 Sep 2000 04:54:00 -0700 (PDT) "Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:43:52 +0100 " From: Webmaster Subject: Net News 23 Net News 23 Sorry to have left it so long since the last notification. I have noted that some wondered if NetNews was extict... Well its not. Not quite! Though in a way I suppose it shows the website can exist without the need for constant attention... However things do change and this time a larger than normal number of BOC site pages have had to be modified. These are as follows ; /regrs.html /info.html /regalia.html /advert.html /repro.html /6032.html /service.html /news.html /events.html (which now needs more alteration post concours) /forum.html /regions.html Background Advertising rates for the bulletin have been simplified. Arnold Bettess and his wife Rosa have taken on the provision "of Regalia, but in turn Arnold has now given up the job of " providing Reprints due to retirement from Lancaster College "Reprints are now being executed by Nick Purnell, " You can write to Nick at ; "Rhydspence Barn, " "Rhydspence, " "Whitney on Wye, " Herefordshire. HR3 6EU. England or Tel: 01948 861050 or better still Email address: 100570.443@compuserve.com The choice is yours. Adrian Berry is now the Club Archivist - you probably knew that - but it doesn't do any harm to reiterate it because people are forever asking. Keith Bell is still Scottish Regional Secy.. though his name is missing from IFC the 2000 Membership List. "Likewise the Gen.Regr. is still Type 400 Registrar, as well as " "for Type 409, and the others shown. " By now you ought to have realised that Andrew Blow took over from Graeme Browne as 'Bulletin Editor' some time ago. Adrian Berry is still ploughing the furrows as 'Newsletter Editor'. You may not have noticed that after a decade or more (certainly since its inception and our club involvment) Richard Peacock has passed the reins of Federation of Historic Vehicle Clubs 'BOC Representative' to Michael Parr. Recent Magazine coverage 'Thoroughbred and Classic Cars' Oct.edtn. has article about 403 tested at Goodwood back to back with a Cooper Bristol. on p.100. Those of you who also subscribe to 'Forum' will have noted references to the 'Blenheim' as a Gun Camera platform presented in a recent edition of 'AP'. Thats 'Amateur Photographer' to the cognoscenti. 'Practical Classics' Sept.edtn. p.90 attempts to advise best choice for beginners from 407 to 411 as a alternative car. "If you spot any pertinent articles please do let me know, or " "by all means broadcast them on 'Forum', where they can be " picked up by interested parties. Well I guess thats all for now. I'll get back to catching up on notified Membership alterations. "rgds., " Bob Bob Charlton * Webmaster@boc.net * http://www.boc.net/bristol/ 4 Sep 2000 16:42:26 -0700 (PDT) "Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 19:16:52 +0100 " From: STEPHEN MYCIUNKA "Hi all, " Did everyone see David Fyson's lovely 411S2 in the ITV drama The Last of The Blonde Bombshells on 3/9/00. Didn't it look lovely! "Rgds, " Steve M "Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 19:45:27 -0700 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: RE: Please clarify what looked lovely the blondes or the car? > [Original Message] > From: STEPHEN MYCIUNKA > To: bocnet > Date: 9/4/00 4:47:14 PM > Subject: "> Hi all, " > Did everyone see David Fyson's lovely 411S2 in the ITV drama The Last of The > Blonde Bombshells on 3/9/00. > Didn't it look lovely! "> Rgds, " > Steve M "Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 11:39:38 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: Beautiful ladies on TV This is the kind of thing we'd like to know in advance! Douglas W. -----Original Message----- From: STEPHEN MYCIUNKA [mailto:AUTOLYCUS@myciunka.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 04 September 2000 19:17 "Hi all, " Did everyone see David Fyson's lovely 411S2 in the ITV drama The Last of The Blonde Bombshells on 3/9/00. Didn't it look lovely! "Rgds, " Steve M "Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 06:48:15 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Re: BOC Forum archive "Dear Bob, " Many thanks for the e-mail. I have now accessed the archive site OK. I just wanted to look at some of the previous notes for reference. Best wishes Luke Hansen "Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 11:09:41 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Re: "Further to Steve's note below, has anyone else seen Bristols in TV series " or films? I recall there was mention in the newsletter of a member who "provided his car for some TV series (a 410, I think). I believe there is " also the old documentary about the 450's and some more recent item on Top Gear. I have to say that I've never seen a Bristol on the screen and am curious. Regards Shane ">Hi all, " >Did everyone see David Fyson's lovely 411S2 in the ITV drama The Last of The >Blonde Bombshells on 3/9/00. >Didn't it look lovely! ">Rgds, " >Steve M "Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 00:17:19 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Blonde Bombshells References: <41200092524527140@earthlink.net> <49f97ecd54Postmaster@boc.net> "In article <49f97ecd54Postmaster@boc.net>, " Bob Charlton wrote: "> In article <41200092524527140@earthlink.net>, " > Shawn Thomas wrote: > > Please clarify what looked lovely the blondes or the car? > What car? O;-)) "Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 13:45:19 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Bristols on TV "Quite a few years ago there was a 401,2 or 3 (can't remember now) " featured regularly in a series called Capital City. I believe the car belonged to Brian May. Kevin Howard "On Tue, 05 Sep 2000 11:09:41 -0700, Shane de Burca A0wrote: " ">Further to Steve's note below, has anyone else seen Bristols in " TV series >or films? I recall there was mention in the newsletter of a member who ">provided his car for some TV series (a 410, I think). I believe " there is >also the old documentary about the 450's and some more recent item on Top >Gear. I have to say that I've never seen a Bristol on the screen and am >curious. >Regards >Shane ">>Hi all, " >> >>Did everyone see David Fyson's lovely 411S2 in the ITV drama The Last of The >>Blonde Bombshells on 3/9/00. >> >>Didn't it look lovely! >> ">>Rgds, " >> >>Steve M "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 09/06/2000 at 1:42:53 " PM "Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:58:48 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: Bristols on tv "The occasional Top Gear spin-off 'One Careful Owner', which is repeated now " "and again, did feature a Bristol once, although I forget which type. Brian " May was in it and it was interesting to see his premises with dead Bristols lying around. "Douglas is right, it would be nice to know in advance. Members who supply " their cars for productions should blow their own trumpets! I thought the 411 was the classiest of all Ian Holm's 'borrowed' classics in Blonde Bombshells. Nic Raine "Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 14:32:10 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: "Geofrey Herdmans 405 was used in a country vet or doctor series, the film " crew who had to drive it scared themselves silly with the brakes...Stefan "Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 15:52:09 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Email (not a subject) 405 on TV References: <4f.78cbc9.26e7e7aa@cs.com> "In article <4f.78cbc9.26e7e7aa@cs.com>, " Stefan Cembrowicz wrote: "> Geofrey Herdmans 405 was used in a country vet or doctor series, " > the film crew who had to drive it scared themselves silly with the > brakes...Stefan The Doctors in a Country Practice was called Peak Practice after the area in which it was supposed to be set. Current Classic car used is a Red Volvo Amazon? "Not to hot on Volvo developments, particularly lately as they come " thick and fast. "rgds., " Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:18:20 +0100 " From: STEPHEN MYCIUNKA "Further to Nic's recent mail, the One Careful Owner featured Bristol was a " 400 bought by a student medic - against his mum's wishes who eventually restored and cherished the car some several owners down the line! "Rgds, " Steve "Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:22:11 +0100 " From: STEPHEN MYCIUNKA More on telly stars - Stefan tells us that the 405 in Peak Practice was Geoffrey Herdmans - I remember seeing an article in the motoring press that suggested that the funds from this venture brought the 405 some rechromed bumpers!!!! I had always wondered who did own the car. "Rgds, " Steve "Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 14:50:24 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Re: BOC Forum archive "Hi Bob (again), " I have just looked at the archive again and noticed that the material stops around July 4th 2000. Can you tell me what (if anything) has been saved after this date? "Many thanks, " Luke Hansen "Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 05:45:59 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Re: BOC Forum archive "Dear Bob, " Bob Charlton seems to think that you are THE man to contact regarding the "archive addresses, so maybe that means that no-one else is saving the " messages after all? "All the best, " Luke Hansen " Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:20:36 +0100 " "Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:20:30 +0100 " From: Stephen Wall Subject: 405 drophead door / window rubbers "I have been contacted by a Marcel from Paris, who is in the process of " restoring a 405DH. He is looking for a set of door and window rubbers with no luck. Any ideas to help him. Stephen Wall Managing Director - General Insurance The Bollington Group Ltd. Fax:01625 574879 Marcel should now be a member of the forum so should be able to read the replies himself now. "Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:08:57 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 405 drophead door / window rubbers References: "In article , " Stephen Wall wrote: > Marcel should now be a member of the forum so should be able to > read the replies himself now. "His application has not yet been received, but I will keep an eye on " traffic expecting an application. "rgds., Bob Charlton " "Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:19:37 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Herdman Subject: RE: 405 drophead door / window rubbers Stephen "I am in exactly the same position but I think we have found suppliers, if " "not, Spencer knows how to make adequate substitutes. Please also note that " we have just had sets of quarter light rubbers made for 405s which Dave Crownshaw has. Please try Dave first as we would like to recover the cost!! N.B. Could we please have the chassis no. of Marcel's 405. Geoffrey Herdman > -----Original Message----- "> From: Stephen Wall [SMTP:stephen.wall@bollington.com] " "> Sent: 12 September 2000 09:21 " "> To: Forum@boc.net " "> Subject: 405 drophead door / window rubbers " "> I have been contacted by a Marcel from Paris, who is in the process of " > restoring a 405DH. He is looking for a set of door and window rubbers with > no luck. > Any ideas to help him. > Stephen Wall > Managing Director - General Insurance > The Bollington Group Ltd. > Tel:01625 577113 > Fax:01625 574879 > Marcel should now be a member of the forum so should be able to read the > replies himself now. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The contents are privileged. Any unauthorised "Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:10:55 +0100 " From: Webmaster Subject: Bristol Blenheim HOT News. The Scottish Museum of Flight located at the old Airship hangars on "East Fortune Airfield, East Lothian - itself an annexe of the Royal " Scottish Museum (Transport Department) has just sucessfully purchased "a Bristol Blenheim Fighter Bomber, scheduled for complete restoration " in five years. Its just possible the Scottish Section may be able to assist public interest by arranging meets to coincide with open days. Thought some might be interested...? "rgds., " Bob Charlton Bob Charlton * Webmaster@boc.net * http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:10:50 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: 401 Screen Rubbers This note is being relayed - due to roadworks on the line between Alan Blackwood and our server apparently. Message commences : I have a problem with the rubber moulding which seals the door window "frame and the rear side window frame, on my 401, this is an F shaped " section. "The original Rubber lasted 45 years, and I then replaced it with a " "new rubber strip purchased from Bristol Service Centre in London, " however it has only lasted 4 years before disintegrating. When you look at the two different materials it is quite clear that the new strip has a minimal amount of rubber in it hence no real "flexibility, causing it to break up. " I now need to replace the rubber but do not want to purchase more of "the same, I have checked the normal trim suppliers in England but " unfortunately they do not stock this section. Can anyone tell me where there might be a supply of good quality "strip? I know there are other good quality mouldings in Australia, is " there any available there? Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. "My regards, " Alan Blackwood. EOM : ...and I hope you get this message Alan. "rgds., Bob Charlton " Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:43:51 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: 401 Screen Rubbers and other Matters Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <49fdf501f7Postmaster@boc.net> Alan Blackwood wrote on the 15/9/00 he has experienced problems with 401 side screen rubbers recently supplied by Bristol Cars Ltd. These only lasting 4 years whereas the originals supplied on the car lasted 45 years. I have "experienced similar problems with rubbers supplied for my 400, steering " ball joints and rear axle suspension arm flexible oil retainer Part No N500261. It is possible that early failure is due to poor quality or old stock which "has perished. However, I must be fair to B.C Ltd they did replaced these " free of charge. The replacement steering ball joint rubbers were fitted but failed after 3 years. This forced me into finding a suitable alternative with longevity. Part No N500261 - 2 off are still in my spares cabinet as I consider it pointless and waste of valuable time to strip down the suspension arms to fit these as "I have no faith in the replacements, my time is very valuable and priceless. " These replacements are being used to try and identify a suitable quality oil retainer. If anyone knows where I can get these please let me know. Why B.C. Ltd cannot supply a replacement rubber components to the original specification is beyond my comprehension particularly in view of the prices charged for spare parts. I know which 400 rubbers are available in Australia and can I assist anyone who may have problems in obtaining these i.e pointing them in the "right direction, but I do not know what is available for the 401 cars. I do " have some 401 windscreen rubbers which were made in Australia. If anyone "needs a replacement please get in touch. However, our Spares Co-ordinator, " "David Crownshaw, is I believe a fully paid up member of the Australian Club, " or was the last time I spoke to him and I am sure he will be only to pleased to help members. I think he has a list of remanufactured spares which are available out there and these are very good quality and reasonably priced. I also know someone who has been to Australia with 2/3 siutcases and filled these with spares and brought them back to the U.K. I see know reason why this information cannot be shared and passed on to all interested fully paid up B.O.C. members so that they can act upon it. Perhaps this could be published in the Newsletter by the editor A.B. based on information supplied by D.C. or Ian Ross in Australia together with details of other spares caches available. "Does anyone know, other than Bristol Cars Ltd what spares they have in stock " and what these cost for the various models. Invariably it costs me an expensive "telephone call, a long wait, a surprise or a shock and sometimes utter " disappointment. I am under the impression that all retailers must display there currrent prices including V.A.T.for any goods which are for sale . Is this correct??. Sometime ago the B.O.C. considered remanufacturing non available spares in the U.K but this never materialised. Why ? what happened ? I do not recall reading any recorded club Minutes of Meeting but I have heard various comments through the grapevine. The club has adequate funds to impliment "this on a small scale iniatially but with possible growth, who made the " decision not to do this ?. I know it was not the Club Members who have put the monies into the coffers/accounts which is in the bank accruing interest. For What purpose??. We have no relatives to leave it to so why not make use of this now??. If there is some stubbling block to overcome on the spares front bring it out in the open so that the Members can have what they want. "Alternatively, perhaps we could consider establishing a Club House (in " Scotland) on the lines of the Henry Rolls Museum recently visited by those "Club members who attended the last A.G.M. This was an excellent venue, very " impressive and a similar place would provide an excellent focal meeting point for U.K and Overseas visitors. I do know Anthony Crook and his staff have done an excellent and sterling "job in the past ""For Bristol Cars"" so did the orignal staff at Fiton, but " "changes take place, these are inevetible. Mr Crook is running a buisiness " Cars. Without them he would become extinct just like the DO-DO bird and many "other British Motor Manufacturers. We often hear the saying, ""it is not " "like the good old days"" (all things are relative) whatever this means. Is " "this true of B.C.Ltd., and what is happening??. " Will the Club Chairmen and his committee elected by the Club Members take my comments on board and please comment officially through the existing communication channels and the Forum on the above matters before the Newsletter and Bulletin also become extinct due to lack of available useful "material to be published. ""In the good old days"" the Club published a " monthly Bulletin/Newsletter and now we are down to the minimum that can be "sustained in a year, 3 Bulletins and 6 Newsletters. This point was tabled " at last years A.G.M and it ws accepted/agreed in approximatly 30 seconds. The reason given for this proposal was due to high printing cost and lack of material. I know the Editors have hard time since I have been involved in other clubs and it is not an easy job to produce a magazine without any "contributions. They try hard, but they rely on YOU the members to feed " "them fodder to print in the magazines. We could, maybe improve the quantity " and quality of the information if we all pull on the same piece of rope. So it is up to you (Club Member) to motivate yourselves and provide this fodder and demand what you want from YOUR committee to get value for your subscriptions. YOU ARE THE CLUB SPIRIT or GHOSTs whichever may be the ase.( Geoffery can supply the champagne by the case at very resonable prices so I am told). Without you there is no CLUB. Here endeth the first lesson. A very enthusiastic busy club Member. Derek. "Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:43:51 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: 401 Screen Rubbers and other Matters Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <49fdf501f7Postmaster@boc.net> Alan Blackwood wrote on the 15/9/00 he has experienced problems with 401 side screen rubbers recently supplied by Bristol Cars Ltd. These only lasting 4 years whereas the originals supplied on the car lasted 45 years. I have "experienced similar problems with rubbers supplied for my 400, steering " ball joints and rear axle suspension arm flexible oil retainer Part No N500261. It is possible that early failure is due to poor quality or old stock which "has perished. However, I must be fair to B.C Ltd they did replaced these " free of charge. The replacement steering ball joint rubbers were fitted but failed after 3 years. This forced me into finding a suitable alternative with longevity. Part No N500261 - 2 off are still in my spares cabinet as I consider it pointless and waste of valuable time to strip down the suspension arms to fit these as "I have no faith in the replacements, my time is very valuable and priceless. " These replacements are being used to try and identify a suitable quality oil retainer. If anyone knows where I can get these please let me know. Why B.C. Ltd cannot supply a replacement rubber components to the original specification is beyond my comprehension particularly in view of the prices charged for spare parts. I know which 400 rubbers are available in Australia and can I assist anyone who may have problems in obtaining these i.e pointing them in the "right direction, but I do not know what is available for the 401 cars. I do " have some 401 windscreen rubbers which were made in Australia. If anyone "needs a replacement please get in touch. However, our Spares Co-ordinator, " "David Crownshaw, is I believe a fully paid up member of the Australian Club, " or was the last time I spoke to him and I am sure he will be only to pleased to help members. I think he has a list of remanufactured spares which are available out there and these are very good quality and reasonably priced. I also know someone who has been to Australia with 2/3 siutcases and filled these with spares and brought them back to the U.K. I see know reason why this information cannot be shared and passed on to all interested fully paid up B.O.C. members so that they can act upon it. Perhaps this could be published in the Newsletter by the editor A.B. based on information supplied by D.C. or Ian Ross in Australia together with details of other spares caches available. "Does anyone know, other than Bristol Cars Ltd what spares they have in stock " and what these cost for the various models. Invariably it costs me an expensive "telephone call, a long wait, a surprise or a shock and sometimes utter " disappointment. I am under the impression that all retailers must display there currrent prices including V.A.T.for any goods which are for sale . Is this correct??. Sometime ago the B.O.C. considered remanufacturing non available spares in the U.K but this never materialised. Why ? what happened ? I do not recall reading any recorded club Minutes of Meeting but I have heard various comments through the grapevine. The club has adequate funds to impliment "this on a small scale iniatially but with possible growth, who made the " decision not to do this ?. I know it was not the Club Members who have put the monies into the coffers/accounts which is in the bank accruing interest. For What purpose??. We have no relatives to leave it to so why not make use of this now??. If there is some stubbling block to overcome on the spares front bring it out in the open so that the Members can have what they want. "Alternatively, perhaps we could consider establishing a Club House (in " Scotland) on the lines of the Henry Rolls Museum recently visited by those "Club members who attended the last A.G.M. This was an excellent venue, very " impressive and a similar place would provide an excellent focal meeting point for U.K and Overseas visitors. I do know Anthony Crook and his staff have done an excellent and sterling "job in the past ""For Bristol Cars"" so did the orignal staff at Fiton, but " "changes take place, these are inevetible. Mr Crook is running a buisiness " Cars. Without them he would become extinct just like the DO-DO bird and many "other British Motor Manufacturers. We often hear the saying, ""it is not " "like the good old days"" (all things are relative) whatever this means. Is " "this true of B.C.Ltd., and what is happening??. " Will the Club Chairmen and his committee elected by the Club Members take my comments on board and please comment officially through the existing communication channels and the Forum on the above matters before the Newsletter and Bulletin also become extinct due to lack of available useful "material to be published. ""In the good old days"" the Club published a " monthly Bulletin/Newsletter and now we are down to the minimum that can be "sustained in a year, 3 Bulletins and 6 Newsletters. This point was tabled " at last years A.G.M and it ws accepted/agreed in approximatly 30 seconds. The reason given for this proposal was due to high printing cost and lack of material. I know the Editors have hard time since I have been involved in other clubs and it is not an easy job to produce a magazine without any "contributions. They try hard, but they rely on YOU the members to feed " "them fodder to print in the magazines. We could, maybe improve the quantity " and quality of the information if we all pull on the same piece of rope. So it is up to you (Club Member) to motivate yourselves and provide this fodder and demand what you want from YOUR committee to get value for your subscriptions. YOU ARE THE CLUB SPIRIT or GHOSTs whichever may be the ase.( Geoffery can supply the champagne by the case at very resonable prices so I am told). Without you there is no CLUB. Here endeth the first lesson. A very enthusiastic busy club Member. Derek. "Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:22:29 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Herdman Subject: RE: 401 Screen Rubbers and other Matters Concerning the manufacture of spare parts by the Club. "I have been a member of the Club since 1982, and I fear that the question of " manufacture of spare parts is a perennial one which is always met with threats from Bristol Cars that we would be infringing copyrights and that under no circumstances should we think of so doing. The problem started long before my membership as previous chairmen wil attest. Bristol Cars tell me they have computerised their parts list. I have requested that if so it would be very helpful to have it available on their web site. Bristol Cars also tell me that they have a dialogue with the Spare parts co-ordinator and would like to make a run of the most frequently requested items themselves. Geoffrey Herdman > -----Original Message----- "> From: Derek Hughes [SMTP:derek@bristol400.freeserve.co.uk] " "> Sent: 15 September 2000 12:44 " "> To: BOC Forum " "> Subject: Re: 401 Screen Rubbers and other Matters " > Alan Blackwood wrote on the 15/9/00 he has experienced problems with 401 side screen rubbers recently supplied by Bristol Cars Ltd. These only lasting 4 years whereas the originals supplied on the car lasted 45 years. I have experienced similar problems "with rubbers supplied for my 400, steering ball joints and " rear axle suspension arm flexible oil retainer Part No N500261. It is possible that early failure is due to poor quality or old "stock which has perished. However, I must be fair to B.C Ltd " they did replaced these free of charge. The replacement steering ball joint rubbers were fitted but failed after 3 years. This forced me into finding a suitable alternative with longevity. Part No N500261 - 2 off are still in my spares cabinet as I consider it pointless and waste of valuable time to strip down the suspension arms to fit these as I have no faith in the "replacements, my time is very valuable and priceless. These " replacements are being used to try and identify a suitable quality oil retainer. If anyone knows where I can get these please let me know. Why B.C. Ltd cannot supply a replacement rubber components to the original specification is beyond my comprehension particularly in view of the prices charged for spare parts. I know which 400 rubbers are available in Australia and can I assist anyone who may have problems in obtaining these i.e "pointing them in the right direction, but I do not know what is " available for the 401 cars. I do have some 401 windscreen rubbers which were made in Australia. If anyone needs a "replacement please get in touch. However, our Spares " "Co-ordinator, David Crownshaw, is I believe a fully paid up " "member of the Australian Club, or was the last time I spoke to " him and I am sure he will be only to pleased to help members. I think he has a list of remanufactured spares which are available out there and these are very good quality and reasonably priced. I also know someone who has been to Australia with 2/3 siutcases and filled these with spares and brought them back to the U.K. I see know reason why this information cannot be shared and passed on to all interested fully paid up B.O.C. members so that they can act upon it. Perhaps this could be published in the Newsletter by the editor A.B. based on information supplied by D.C. or Ian Ross in Australia together with details of other spares caches available. "Does anyone know, other than Bristol Cars Ltd what spares they " have in stock and what these cost for the various models. "Invariably it costs me an expensive telephone call, a long wait, " a surprise or a shock and sometimes utter disappointment. I am under the impression that all retailers must display there currrent prices including V.A.T. for any goods which are for sale. Is this correct??. Sometime ago the B.O.C. considered remanufacturing non available spares in the U.K but this never materialised. Why ? what happened ? I do not recall reading any recorded club Minutes of Meeting but I have heard various comments through the grapevine. The club has adequate funds to impliment this on a "small scale iniatially but with possible growth, who made the " decision not to do this ?. I know it was not the Club Members who have put the monies into the coffers/accounts which is in the bank accruing interest. For What purpose??. We have no relatives to leave it to so why not make use of this now??. If there is some stubbling block to overcome on the spares front bring it out in the open so that the Members can have what they "want. Alternatively, perhaps we could consider establishing a " Club House (in Scotland) on the lines of the Henry Rolls Museum recently visited by those Club members who attended the last "A.G.M. This was an excellent venue, very impressive and a " similar place would provide an excellent focal meeting point for U.K and Overseas visitors. I do know Anthony Crook and his staff have done an excellent and "sterling job in the past ""For Bristol Cars"" so did the orignal " "staff at Fiton, but changes take place, these are inevetible. " Mr Crook is running a buisiness to make a profit supported by Customers and Club Members who own Bristol Cars. Without them he would become extinct just like the DO-DO bird and many other "British Motor Manufacturers. We often hear the saying, ""it is " "not like the good old days"" (all things are relative) whatever " "this means. Is this true of B.C.Ltd., and what is happening??. " Will the Club Chairmen and his committee elected by the Club Members take my comments on board and please comment officially through the existing communication channels and the Forum on the above matters before the Newsletter and Bulletin also become extinct due to lack of available useful material to be "published. ""In the good old days"" the Club published a monthly " Bulletin/Newsletter and now we are down to the minimum that can "be sustained in a year, 3 Bulletins and 6 Newsletters. This " point was tabled at last years A.G.M and it ws accepted/agreed in approximatly 30 seconds. The reason given for this proposal was due to high printing cost and lack of material. I know the Editors have hard time since I have been involved in other clubs and it is not an easy job to produce a magazine without any "contributions. They try hard, but they rely on YOU the members " "to feed them fodder to print in the magazines. We could, maybe " improve the quantity and quality of the information if we all pull on the same piece of rope. So it is up to you (Club Member) to motivate yourselves and provide this fodder and demand what you want from YOUR committee to get value for your subscriptions. YOU ARE THE CLUB SPIRIT or GHOSTs whichever may be the ase.( Geoffery can supply the champagne by the case at very resonable prices so I am told). Without you there is no CLUB. Here endeth the first lesson. A very enthusiastic busy club Member. Derek. "Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:37:26 +0100 " From: Michael W Barton Subject: Other Matters References: <49fdf501f7Postmaster@boc.net> Dear All Derek Hughes has raised some interesting points and I comment on those I feel qualified to (!) as Honorary Treasurer and a committee member. 1) Remanufacture of spares by the club. At an AGM some years ago (our secretary could tell us which but I think '96) it was agreed that £2000 be made available for remanufacture of rubber parts "as an experiment. The committee never heard anything further, no reports on " "progress, no requests for money, no appearance of spare parts, until just " recently (August 2000) when David Hughes produced some 405 window rubbers. I recall at the subsequent AGM Dave Crownshaw explained that spares previously believed to be unavailable could in fact be obtained from Australia. Perhaps Dave as Spares Co-coordinator would like to comment on this/clarify this for our benefit? "As a group we are very fortunate, some clubs support long dead marques, " "whereas we seem to have an active manufacturer, we have a group of active " specialists. Compared to other marques we do not seem to have many insoluble spares problems. I am not aware of many cars off the road for lack of parts or lack of a solution to a spares problem. (On the other hand I know of many cars off the road for lack of money!!) "We have an annual income from subscriptions of £22,000 and rely entirely on " volunteer efforts. The club is already budgeting a loss this year. This money would not go very far into spares production. Bristol Cars tell us "they have £1,500,000 of spares available and the other specialists have " reproduced or sourced spares on a commercial basis. If we did try to go into "spares how do we prioritise ?, As an individual member I would like rear " "lights for a 412 which are unavailable, is that more or less important than " your steering ball joint rubbers? "I believe that we should encourage Bristol Cars, and the other specialists " to supply reasonable quality spares at reasonable prices and encourage them bulletin and email forum is one vehicle to do this. "2) Club reserves, annual income and expenditure. " "The AGM decided some years ago, in the days of high inflation, to go for " subscription rises only when essential and then to hold these for as long as possible. Immediately after a subscription rise the club would record annual surpluses and build reserves and in later years record annual deficits and use up reserves. Our last subscription rise was in the early '90s. We are budgeting to make a loss this year and be using up reserves. Hopefully our reserves will keep us going for some time without a subscription increase but that is now in the medium rather than distant future. 3) Club house As the committee member who arranged (with Geoff Hawkins help) the last AGM I'm glad you enjoyed the visit to the Hunt House. The RREC and the Sir Henry "Royce Memorial Foundation have the benefit of over 6,000 members (we have " "800) and some wealthy benefactors who got the whole thing going, It would be " a dream come true for me to twe could achieve a permanent facility for ourselves. The committee would welcome any thoughts from members about how "to get this off the ground?, how much it would cost?, where we would get the " money from ?. Any thoughts or comments will be enthusiastically read and our committee "works hard to provide what you want, if we don't please tell us. " Michael W Barton Honorary Treasurer Bristol Owners Club "Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:20:10 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Other Matters References: <49fdf501f7Postmaster@boc.net> "In article <003e01c01fda$dfc783a0$abefdec2@qt89n>, " Michael W Barton wrote: > Any thoughts or comments will be enthusiastically read and our "> committee works hard to provide what you want, if we don't please " > tell us. At one time I believe Bristol Cars identified to the club items which were still in stock though long thought extinct. The problem remained that many parts were still thought too expensive I also remember contributing to 2 separate surveys - initiated years "apart by Bristol Cars - where we recipients, were asked to forecast " "our likely requirements for parts, over the short and the mid to " longer term. Equally impossible it seemed to determine a common norm - as I understand almost every item was requested - but at the rate of few units in total per the survey. "Comment was later made by Bristol Cars, that minimum orders of " production of parts in business... mostly meant a minimum investment of upwards of 100 units. Making each item in the task a loss maker for Bristol Cars Ltd. It could and would be a great help - if they would give us a list of bought in products of which the quantities required fall below the "loss making line and which we as a club or as individuals, could then " "source directly through manufacturers agents in smaller quantities, " "or subsequently identify at Autojumbles, many of which now contain so " much trash and rusted rubbish as to make the purchase unworthy. For an example - years ago I purchased a 2 litre Timing Chain from "Bristol Cars Ltd., which arrived in its original manufacturers " """Routes"" box and thus was I discovered - available as a stock item at " "the local garage, but not readily identified by them - because their " books didn't list Bristol Type 400 car parts by 1976. A listing norm is usually _up to 10 years_ after production ceases. Its price I cannot remember... but it was slightly dearer than list "price... I recall the item certainly cost more because of postage, " and time wasted - waiting for cheque to clear - held up both dispatch and my car restoration for weeks... When had I but known the data - I "could have obtained it virtually overnight locally, and certainly at " less cost. Mike's Rear Lights for example - were almost certainly originally derived from another production source... which if now identified as a Lucas item - could lead to sourcing and a subsequent direct aquisition either through local Lucas agents or known purveyors of old Lucas stock. The same would be true for other manufacturers products bought in by Bristol rather than factory produced. "So why do Bristol Cars keep this secret if they won't, or don't stock " the parts? It absolutely mystifies me! Years ago I was in touch with a custodian of stored Lucas Parts which were being held as 'Historic stock' and which could not be accessed "through the counter facilities of normal Lucas Agencies, but were " known to places like Beaulieu National Auto Museum and others. Alas I "don't know now whether this stock is even still existent, - never " mind accessible - for my contact has long left the industry. Without appropriate part numbers he couldn't trace the items still held in stock... By now its probably all long gone. Members known to me - but not widely identified for obvious reasons... have in the past out of their own pockets commissioned dies and or moulds and then produced limited runs of a number of items. Alas these were always produced in too small a quantity and supplies were rapidly exhausted. The direct reason for this was the amount of cash needed to produce on spec. large quantities of the item. "Adaptation is another route, see for example what Derek has done in " "respect of his various Overdrive mods, but these are also expensive " and obviously cannot be produced other than to specification and to order. I do know that rubber parts being of limited life do need to be replaced from time to time - not only for appearance - but also to pass the required annual MoT tests. Is it possible to press Bristol Cars for this information and publish the appropriate part numbers in the Newsletter or Bulletin or produce "an annually updated list, which could also go onto the website? " _Bearing in mind that many members don't have Internet access yet!_ "rgds., Bob Charlton " "Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:37:18 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Other matters - Newsletters I read with interest Derek Hughes recent posting. With regard to Newsletters - supposed to be 6 editions per year. I have e-mailed Adrian Berry the newsletter editor on numerous occasions asking when these are printed (and therefore when I should receive my copy) and have never had the courtesy of a reply. Andrew Blow did write regarding the Bulletins when I posted the question on "the Forum, which was helpful, but it still did not address my original " question. As a relatively new member of the club I do not wish to 'make waves' but it would help if some officers would respond to requests. The quality and advice that I have received from other Forum members has been excellent. I hope that "in future some officers and officials will also ""be bothered"" to give equally " good replies. Luke Hansen "Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:05:19 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Hawkins Subject: Re: Other Matters "Dear All, " "To add to our Honorary Treasurer's response to Derek Hughes, I have dug out " the following information: "The subscriptions were last increased in 1995, by a vote at the AGM. Prior " "to that, they were increased in 1991. " "In 1996, Dave Crownshaw (Spare Parts Co-ordinator) was allocated A31000 for " the manufacture of rubber components. "In 1997, the Minutes record: " Dave Crownshaw said that he had received a huge list of spares from Bristol "Cars, but unfortunately the items are not very well described and has asked " for clarification. Although Bristol Cars keeps a book of requests for "spares, not everybody goes to them in the first place because perhaps, in " "the past, they have not been able to get the spares they have wanted. He " "asked the meeting to let him know of any parts that could not be obtained, " "and, providing there was a sufficient demand, he would discuss the " remanufacture of the item. "In 1998, the Minutes record: " Dave Crownshaw said that at a previous AGM he had been authorised to "investigate the manufacture of spares, if these were not available from the " "manufacturer, and that there was a demand for them. He reported that he wa " not convinced that there was sufficient demand for any one item to make "re-manufacture worthwhile, although a number of alternative sources were " available for parts and a number of companies were willing to renovate items. Two members had expressed concern that the Club had not adopted a "speculative policy regarding the manufacture of obsolete parts, nor indeed " encouraged Bristol Cars to do so. History had shown that this is not alway "successful. Bristol Cars had manufactured Torsion Bars and Camshafts, only " to find that the demand had evaporated. Members are in the fortunate position whereby a substantial proportion of the spares required can be met "by Bristol Cars. Should the situation change for any reason, there is a " mechanism in place to look after the needs of the members. The quality of "replacement parts remains an issue. Where there is a gap in the market, th " e parts produced are of generally high standard; but where a 8CbodgeB9 is "available, there is no incentive for anyone to produce a good quality item, " as the demand would not be there. Dave finished his report by saying that he would welcome any guidance on whether or not effort should be expended o n "assessing likely future demand for spares, with a view to possible future " manufacture. I trust that Derek will see that much discussion has gone on in the past "about spares. Generally, there isn't a huge problem compared with other " "marques. I would like to echo our Treasurer's comments, in that we do have " the support of Bristol Cars. It is a little naive to expect Bristol Cars to supply components of the same quality as originally supplied. I am sure tha t "they try as hard as they can, but there are few manufacturers around " "supplying items that were designed some 50 years ago, the demand just isn't " there. Modern cars don't use the same style of mouldings and components. "Small companies see a niche market for some items, but the investment " "required in tooling and research is fairly prohibitive, and quality suffers " . It should be noted that Trico will cease manufacturing in 2-3 years time. "Kind regards, " Geoff Hawkins BOC General [tsk! tsk!! attachment confiscated... - Postmaster] "Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:39:22 +1200 (NZST) " From: Lane Smytheman Subject: Rubber components 400-403 These are the body rubber components that the Bristol Owners Club of Australia manufacture locally. I understand that these items are only available to full members of the club - Full membership is A$50 plus a joining fee of A$20. "Whilst I am a member, I do not represent the club. " "For all enquiries re spares, contact the Club Spare Parts Coordinator, Iain " "Ross 485 Geelong Rd , West Footscray, Victoria 3012 Australia. Ph " 61-3-9314-4254 or preferably fax 61-3-9314-7709 Aust $ Wndscreen rubber type 400 $27.00 Windscreen rubber type 401-403 $15.00 Bulkhead rubber type 401-403 $15.00 Door seal rubber401-401 $30.00 Bumper mounting rubber type 401-401 $24.00 Door push button rubber type 401-403 $ 3.50 Jacking point rubber $13.00 Windscreen wiper grommet $ 2.00 Wheel cylinder rubber spreaders $ 4.00 Hand brake rear cable boot $15.00 Pedal rubbers type 400-403 $15.00 Door buffer rubbers ( two sizes ) $ 3.50 Rear axle flexible oil retainer $ 5.50 Tie rod end rubber $ 5.00 Rack and pinion telescopic sleeve $20.00 Rear suspension `A' bracket oil sleeve $15.00 Misc items:- Torque buffer ( polyurethane ) $25.00 Flexible steering coupling $25.00 Note :- Other items available upon request Plus overseas postage on above prices These prices are VERY reasonable when you consider the current A$ / STG "exchange rate, so it is worth joining the club to get these items. I am sure " that they have have carefully chosen an appropriate specification for the rubber. Lane Smytheman 61 Rothesay Bay Rd Rothesay Bay Auckland 1310 New Zealand Ph 64-9-478-7426 "Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:59:50 +1100 " From: julian caples Subject: Re: 401 Screen Rubbers All "yes we have these rubbers in stock in Oz. very good quality, " recent remanufacture. these are now very good value too considering the state of the australian dollar at the moment. if you want some you should fax our spareparts coordinator iain ross on + 61 3 9314 7709 he will give you a price and discuss shipping and payment etc. regards julian caples president BOCA >This note is being relayed - due to roadworks on the line between >Alan Blackwood and our server apparently. >Message commences : >I have a problem with the rubber moulding which seals the door window ">frame and the rear side window frame, on my 401, this is an F " shaped >section. ">The original Rubber lasted 45 years, and I then replaced it with " a >new rubber strip purchased from Bristol Service Centre in " London, " >however it has only lasted 4 years before disintegrating. >When you look at the two different materials it is quite clear that >the new strip has a minimal amount of rubber in it hence no real ">flexibility, causing it to break up. " >I now need to replace the rubber but do not want to purchase more of ">the same, I have checked the normal trim suppliers in England " but >unfortunately they do not stock this section. >Can anyone tell me where there might be a supply of good quality >strip? I know there are other good quality mouldings in " Australia, " is >there any available there? >Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. ">My regards, " >Alan Blackwood. >EOM : >....and I hope you get this message Alan. ">rgds., Bob Charlton " >Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: >http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "-- julian caples, jwec@bigpond.com on 09/17/2000 " "Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:43:47 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Other Matters Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Geoffrey. "The Hills are alive with the Sound of Music, or something like this. " "Never have I read so many interesting e mails in so many minutes, " " i) Michael - Treasurer, 16/9/00, 01.37 GMT. . " " ii) Geof - Secretary, 16/9/00, 06.05 GMT. " " iii) Geoffrey - Chairman, 16/9/00, 11,27 GMT. " Question :- What time did the meeting take place???. None were DELed. "In response to yours, item iii) :- " ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Geoffrey Herdman"" " "Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 11:22 AM " Subject: RE: 401 Screen Rubbers and other Matters " > I have been a member of the Club since 1982, and I fear that the question " of > manufacture of spare parts is a perennial one which is always met with > threats from Bristol Cars that we would be infringing copyrights and that > under no circumstances should we think of so doing. "< I have been a member since 1972 and it is the first time I think, that I " have read Bristol Cars tell me they have computerised their parts list. I have > requested that if so it would be very helpful to have it available on their > web site. < Why not print it and include a copy with the NEXT NEWSLETTER then we < will all be using the same information?. < Bristol Cars also tell me that they have a dialogue with the Spare parts > co-ordinator and would like to make a run of the most frequently requested > items themselves. < Were the discussions put in writing and included in the Club archives?. < Regards Derek Hughes. (The Quiet Survivor) "Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:55:28 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Other Matters Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services "Good morning, or is it Guten Abent, Geoff. " Nice to hear from you. Herewith are my comments on your : ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Geoffrey Hawkins"" " "Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 6:05 PM " Subject: Re: Other Matters "In 1996, Dave Crownshaw (Spare Parts Co-ordinator) was allocated £1000 " for the manufacture of rubber components. In 1997, the Minutes record: " Dave Crownshaw said that he had received a huge list of spares from Bristol "Cars, but unfortunately the items are not very well described and has asked " for clarification. "< Nearly 4 years has passed, dare I asked the question. Has he received " "Although Bristol Cars keeps a book of requests for "spares, not everybody goes to them in the first place because perhaps, in " "the past, they have not been able to get the spares they have wanted. " < ??????? We often do not ask them because we do not know what they have. Why He asked the meeting to let him know of any parts that could not be "obtained, " "and, providing there was a sufficient demand, he would discuss the " remanufacture of the item. < I assume you are referring to the AGM in 1997. Is this correct and was it "In 1998, the Minutes record: " Dave Crownshaw said that at a previous AGM he had been authorised to "investigate the manufacture of spares, if these were not available from the " "manufacturer, and that there was a demand for them. He reported that he was " not convinced that there was sufficient demand for any one item to make "re-manufacture worthwhile, although a number of alternative sources were " available for parts and a number of companies were willing to renovate items. Two members had expressed concern that the Club had not adopted a "speculative policy regarding the manufacture of obsolete parts, nor indeed " encouraged Bristol Cars to do so. History had shown that this is not always "successful. Bristol Cars had manufactured Torsion Bars and Camshafts, only " to find that the demand had evaporated. Members are in the fortunate position whereby a substantial proportion of the spares required can be met "by Bristol Cars. Should the situation change for any reason, there is a " mechanism in place to look after the needs of the members. The quality of "replacement parts remains an issue. Where there is a gap in the market, the " parts produced are of generally high standard; but where a Obodge¹ is "available, there is no incentive for anyone to produce a good quality item, " as the demand would not be there. Dave finished his report by saying that he would welcome any guidance on whether or not effort should be expended on "assessing likely future demand for spares, with a view to possible future " manufacture. I trust that Derek will see that much discussion has gone on in the past about spares. Generally, there isn't a huge problem compared with other " marques. "I would like to echo our Treasurer's comments, in that we do have " the support of Bristol Cars. It is a little naive <(spell check required :- is it neif?)> to expect Bristol Cars to supply components of the same quality as originally supplied. " I am sure that they try as hard as they can, " "but there are few manufacturers around supplying items that were designed "some 50 years ago, " "Modern cars don't use the same style of mouldings and components. "Small companies see a niche market for some items, but the investment " "required in tooling and research is fairly prohibitive, and quality suffers. " It should be noted that Trico will cease manufacturing in 2-3 years time "Kind regards, " "Geoff Hawkins :- BOC General. [tsk! tsk!! attachment confiscated... - Postmaster]. " Subject: Re: Other matters - Newsletters Sender: adrian.berry@armigerhouse.com References: A reply was sent on the 20 August concerning Newsletters. Perhaps you should re-check your past messages. For your reference a copy of that e-mail is:- Luke "The newsletters go out usually every 2 months. Due to a job change, " this schedule has become disrupted. Hoping to issue the next newsletter shortly. You have not been left out. Regards Adrian Berry l00;00 0A >00<00/00E00M00>00<00/00D00I00V00>000D000A D00I00V00>000D000A O00N00T00>00<00/00E00M00>00<00/00D00I00V00>000D000A E00M00>00<00/00D00I00V00>00<00/00B00O00D00Y00>00<00/00H 0 "Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:46:42 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Other Matters Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Michael how are you?? O.K . @ the moment I presume. This e-mail is "sent unchecked. If you find any mistakes tell my computer, it is responsible " for them. I wish I had not written wot I rote.( spell check required). Because it has "caused me a lot of work and wasted a lot of people's time, not to mention " the cost. It is just as well that I am connected by/via/with N.T.L. I wonder how they are getting along with the spares situation and whether they have similar problems?. I doubt it since their computers are out of date when "they purchase them and with us silly bbbblud, is it allowed Bobs C?,. er, " "fellows will do, they(NTL of course) are kept in such luxury that they can " "afford to throw them away when they stop working. It is a bit like, when " "one is in the prime of his/her career, be careful Derek, this could be " "classed as discrimination, and the Boss comes along one bright day, sorry it " "was, and say's to you, we have too much SPARE capacity and therefore we " "are making you Redundant to sort this out. No problem, you say I will go " home and work on my Bristol providing I can get some Spares from the suppliers otherwise I will be spare and I suppose thrown away just like those infernal computers.!! :-). What would we do without them?. So I suppose they don't have our problems. Thank God for Simplicity of thought and machine!!. "What are you prattling on about Geoff H might be saying, really I do not " "know, is the answer. OH oh ! just a minute, yes, sorry, I was trying to " "reply sensibly to your e mail, but my collective thoughts forgot all about " that. Never mind here we go. > ----- Original Message ----- "> From: ""Michael W Barton"" " > To: "> Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 1:37 PM " > Subject: Other Matters > Dear All > Derek Hughes has raised some interesting points and I comment on those I > feel qualified to (!) Not sure Michael?. > as Honourary Treasurer does this mean you do not pay subscriptions/prescriptions like other Honorary Members. This must be a good perk for all the hard work you do. "Although these are not too bad,i.e.,the subscriptions, I think these have " "stagnated so I was told by, Geoff Hawkins. The basis of which I am unsure. " > and a committee member. "I must say I am getting to know you all much better, although I cannot see " "your eyes.. That is one problem that I have with the e mail system, you " communicate with people who are possibly on the other side of the world and the next minute they are your neighbour. I sometimes think of them as the faceless ones because I do not know where they are coming from "Literally translated, where do they live?., which language do they speak,how " do they think. Without this information I am pondering if I may be upsetting them by my openness/frankness/blunt but honesty who can be very helpful. > 1) Remanufacture of spares by the club. "This is a good idea, why did you not raise this before now. " > At an AGM some years ago (our secretary could tell us which but I think '96) no 1997 or was it 98 Geoff. > it was agreed that £2000 be made available for remanufacture of rubber parts > as an experiment. See Geoff Hawkins e mail on the 16/9/00 for corrections to this text. "> The committee never heard anything further, no reports on " "> progress, no requests for money, no appearance of spare parts, until just " > recently (August 2000) when David Hughes produced some 405 window rubbers. Now this is very interesting MichaeI it must been the same meeting that I attended when was it do you remember? Did David Hughes submit an invoice to you?. What made you recall this specific date August 2000 ?. Did that """405"" sitting in a garage get some new rubbers. " This was obviously a different meeting to the one which Geoff Hawkins attended and probably gives the Members some very valuable information to ask the Chairman some very awkward questions. But we will not trouble his thoughts at this point in time. Maybe later on when we need to resurrect the spares SAGA.again I hope this will not be necessary. Where is that 405 living?. Who so desperately sat waiting in some garage "chatting to his/her stable mate, saying: " "where did you get your lovely new rubbers from? By they do look nice, I bet " "they were expensive. The ""405"" to mate, It was really nice of " David Hughes (sorry/my apologies I used Simon in my e mail to Geoffrey "Herdman, David, but that is my son's name and my little brain is becoming " confused. It was nice chatting to you at the AGM in Sir Henry Rolls or's Museum). I suppose (said the mate) some of the other Club Members would like some too. It's a pity Geoffrey did not speak to that fellow in---er -- where was it now ?. "Oh, yes, I remember he lives in Australia somewhere. Yes that's right he is " "called---??. Something Ross, er, Ross on Wye?. No. don't be silly that's a place " "in Wales, " "this fellow lives in New South Wales, AUSTRALIA, you nut, not " "MONMOUTHSHIRE, you idiot!! who is it?,err, Ian Ross the spares man, " "Mr D Crownshaw, our Co-Ordinator for SPARES knows him very well. But I " "suppose the ""AA"" don't list his post code. For the benefit of our overseas " "Members, this is the infamous Automobile Association who help people when " they breakdown due to poor maintenance and lack of good quality spares. "Now! I remember we were discussing parts or more succinctly put, the " LACK OF THEM.!!. Members who have no comprehension of this knowledgeable organisation in the U.K. This is a Club which you can join who do not make anything. That is right Bob's C is it not? or is it the Scottish AA up there in the "north, i.e. of London, that is except take Money Out Of Simple People who cannot " maintain/keep their Motor Car going with the correct spares because there is "shortage.) ?? They do make a list,if you really want to know, of all the members " Post Code so that our Committee Delegate can ensure we all receive our Newsletter/Bulletin when this is Published. I could tell you another tale/story but I will leave this for the Chairman to transcript "sometime. The title ""Stockton on Tees"" is located in which County??. Lane, " "please give me your best guess. Do'nt say Cleveland, otherwise you will get a " "smart reply from the Committee, that this is now another failure due to progress " and poor quality of goods delivered. Generally the demise/downfall of many good manufacturers in this high technology world of ours. Who said we do not "want quality spares?. Those who cannot deliver will soon be dead, that is in " my opinion only. > recall at the subsequent AGM Dave Crownshaw explained that spares previously believed to be unavailable could in fact be obtained from Australia. "> Perhaps, Dave as Spares Co-coordinator would like to comment on this/clarify " > this for our benefit? "And of course, not to mention the Members too. A little editing took place here " so that we could all understand the point that Michael was trying to make "> As a group we are very fortunate, some clubs support long dead marques, " "> whereas we seem to have an active manufacturer, we have a group of active " > specialists. Compared to other marques we do not seem to have many insoluble > spares problems. "True, but we do have some. " > I am not aware of many cars off the road for lack of parts > or lack of a solution to a spares problem. (On the other hand I know of many > cars off the road for lack of money!!) "I can probably agree with this statement, but in my opinion it would help those " in this situation if a list of available spares and prices were available in order """Completion Programme"" based on their personal restraints. No more or less " than I would expect to find in any reasonable Company which I would be to "work with or ask of them. This is only based on my own experience, standards " and requirements. These will be different to yours perhaps. "> We have an annual income from subscriptions of £22,000 " Well this is interesting. What are the Clubs Targets for future growth and "Commitments?. Have the Committee, anything in mind?. How about making a " "commitment to our very resourceful colleagues Downunder by, saying the " B.O.C in the U.K will support financially remanufacturing spare parts to the tune of ??? This a decision made in the inner sanctum by the Committee .(£5k/year or whatever). In other words create a tooling fund to which we are "all contributing, but more important that we all have equal benefits. This would " also have to app;y to our equally resourceful American Colleagues. > and rely entirely on volunteer efforts. With these volunteers there would be no Club So we thank them for their tireless strength in driving the Club To wherever it goes. > The club is already budgeting a loss this year. Oh dear Bang Goes that good idea I just mentioned. Or I am wrong again he says to himself out loud. > This money would not go very far into spares production. Bristol Cars tell us "> they have £1,500,000 of spares available " "Please send us all a price list, we might be able to purchase some desperately " wanted parts. I think most of us will be able to interpretate these given a little time or ask the right questions after all I think most people are reasonably intelligent some much brighter than others.. > the stock a little and the other specialists have > reproduced or sourced spares on a commercial basis. If we did try to go into "> spares how do we prioritise ?, " "The co ordinators and the controllers make the based on the Members Demands, " (Plural) "> As an individual member I would like rear lights for a 412 which are unavailable, " > is that more or less important than your steering ball joint rubbers? No it ccarries the same inportantance. Without the required replacement part no doubt our cars will not pass the M.O.T. annual test. By the way we co erse the appropriate Parliament Member to join our Committee ?/. He maybe useful. "> I believe that we should encourage Bristol Cars, and the other specialists " > to supply reasonable quality spares at reasonable prices and encourage them > to make available information on stocks. This is the least I would expect of any one worth there salt. Do we not agree?. "> Our club, with its newsletter, > bulletin and email forum is one vehicle to do " > this. I totally agree with you. "> 2) Club reserves, annual income and expenditure. " "> The AGM decided some years ago, in the days of high inflation, to go for " > subscription rises only when essential and then to hold these for as long as > possible. Immediately after a subscription rise the club would record annual > surpluses and build reserves and in later years record annual deficits and > use up reserves. Our last subscription rise was in the early '90s. We are > budgeting to make a loss this year and be using up reserves. Hopefully our > reserves will keep us going for some time without a subscription increase I think that if the committee can put up a good case for increasing the "subscriptions then I believe, and I can only speak for myself, but being a " reasonable sort of fellow I would accept the committee's recommendations. > but that is now in the medium rather than distant future. Thats PO.K. by me and I assume others. > 3) Club house > As the committee member who arranged (with Geoff Hawkins help) the last AGM > I'm glad you enjoyed the visit to the Hunt House. The RREC and the Sir Henry "> Royce Memorial Foundation have the benefit of over 6,000 members (we have " "> 800) and some wealthy benefactors who got the whole thing going, It would be " > a dream come true for me to we could achieve a permanent facility for > ourselves. I entirely agree with your thoughts and sentiments. It may only be a pipe dream but if we do not have what do we hang onto in desperate times. Perhaps we can start in a more modest way and then grow into better things. Has Mr "Anhony Crook not got a small niche that we could fit into, then gradually " get a little fatter until we have to move to bigger things. Just another stupid thought. > The committee would welcome any thoughts from members about how "> to get this off the ground?, " I have given one . any more?. "> how much it would cost?, where we would get the> money from ?. " These are big questions and far beyond the present possibilities of my present "brain power. but if you give me sometime and a better spec., I am sure that I or " " someone.much cleverer than me, can make an estimate of these costs. " > Any thoughts or comments will be enthusiastically read and our committee "> works hard to provide what you want, if we don't please tell us. " I am sure you all mean it. Thank you Michael for your comments I trust mine give you fruit for thought if "nothing else. Good night, I look forward to receiving some further advice or " decisions from you. Keep up the good work we may get there eventually. Regards Derek Hughes. (A Quiet Survivor). Here endeth the third lesson. Derek. "Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:02:54 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Rubber components 400-403 Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hi Lane. "This is excelled news to members who did not know these spare are available, " at such reasonable prices. If these are to same high quality of parts previously purchased then I think other Members will be very pleased. including the Committee. The Chairman's Perennial on Spares should evaporate for ever. > ----- Original Message ----- "> From: ""Lane Smytheman"" " > To: "> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 12:39 AM " > Subject: Rubber components 400-403 > These are the body rubber components that the Bristol Owners Club of > Australia manufacture locally. I understand that these items are only > available to full members of the club - Full membership is A$50 plus a > joining fee of A$20. "I will contact Australia, re:- Membership. " You are but one of the Stalwerts working basically for the lively hood of the B.O.C Members. As a team we could work wonders. Derek Hughes. ( A Quieter Survivor) Thank you again for taking time inform us all. It will soon be Xmas. "Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:02:22 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Other matters - Newsletters Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: Hello Adrian. Have put the next issue to bed or is there still time to put in an advert. Last time I contacted you regarding including For Sale 2- 550 by 16 inch tyres you did not reply. Will please advise. I have a few more bits for "sale, " I hope your new job goes well for you. Derek. "Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:01:28 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson "Subject: RE: Clubhouse idea (Messrs Hughes and Barton), 412 lights " Just an idea.... "Given that RREC, VCC, VSCC, BRDC, BARC etc are so much better-endowed " than "BOC both in A3p terms and in numbers of members, could perhaps BOC " join with "other small ""quality"" marque clubs to acquire or at least gain the use " of premises? say via something like a Bristol/Morgan/Gordon-Keeble/Lotus OC """axis""? Or the FBHVC ? " Presumably our club's officials do liaise with other clubs' officials about "various matters from time to time, is ""housing"" a legitimate topic for " liaison? "There was I, middle age passing me by, considering whether to go in for " "training to rant for England, then Derek H came along.... :)20 " "Just out of interest, if rear lights for a 412 (or any car for that " matter) "are unavailable, what substitutes are suggested (and what body surgery " if "any)? Is ""temporary"" rewiring to separate bumper-mounted(*) " rear-illumination/indicator/brake/reversing lamps a feasible option? (*)or board-mounted eg as on caravans? Douglas Wilson. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael W Barton [mailto:mailhost@jblltd.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 16 September 2000 13:37 > To: Forum > Subject: Other Matters Dear All Derek Hughes has raised some interesting points and I comment on those I feel qualified to (!) as Honorary Treasurer and a committee member. 1) Remanufacture of spares by the club. At an AGM some years ago (our secretary could tell us which but I think '96) it was agreed that #2000 be made available for remanufacture of rubber parts "as an experiment. The committee never heard anything further, no " reports on "progress, no requests for money, no appearance of spare parts, until " just recently (August 2000) when David Hughes produced some 405 window rubbers. I recall at the subsequent AGM Dave Crownshaw explained that spares previously believed to be unavailable could in fact be obtained from Australia. Perhaps Dave as Spares Co-coordinator would like to comment on this/clarify this for our benefit? "As a group we are very fortunate, some clubs support long dead marques, " "whereas we seem to have an active manufacturer, we have a group of " active specialists. Compared to other marques we do not seem to have many insoluble spares problems. I am not aware of many cars off the road for lack of parts or lack of a solution to a spares problem. (On the other hand I know of many cars off the road for lack of money!!) "We have an annual income from subscriptions of #22,000 and rely " entirely on volunteer efforts. The club is already budgeting a loss this year. This money would not go very far into spares production. Bristol Cars tell us "they have #1,500,000 of spares available and the other specialists have " reproduced or sourced spares on a commercial basis. If we did try to go into "spares how do we prioritise ?, As an individual member I would like " rear "lights for a 412 which are unavailable, is that more or less important " than your steering ball joint rubbers? "I believe that we should encourage Bristol Cars, and the other " specialists to supply reasonable quality spares at reasonable prices and encourage them bulletin and email forum is one vehicle to do this. "2) Club reserves, annual income and expenditure. " "The AGM decided some years ago, in the days of high inflation, to go " for subscription rises only when essential and then to hold these for as long as possible. Immediately after a subscription rise the club would record annual surpluses and build reserves and in later years record annual deficits and use up reserves. Our last subscription rise was in the early '90s. We are budgeting to make a loss this year and be using up reserves. Hopefully our reserves will keep us going for some time without a subscription increase but that is now in the medium rather than distant future. 3) Club house As the committee member who arranged (with Geoff Hawkins help) the last AGM I'm glad you enjoyed the visit to the Hunt House. The RREC and the Sir Henry "Royce Memorial Foundation have the benefit of over 6,000 members (we " have "800) and some wealthy benefactors who got the whole thing going, It " would be a dream come true for me to twe could achieve a permanent facility for ourselves. The committee would welcome any thoughts from members about how "to get this off the ground?, how much it would cost?, where we would " get the money from ?. Any thoughts or comments will be enthusiastically read and our committee "works hard to provide what you want, if we don't please tell us. " Michael W Barton Honorary Treasurer Bristol Owners Club "Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:35:22 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Other Matters Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Bob. Just a few short answers to your e mail which may help > ----- Original Message ----- "> From: ""Bob Charlton"" " > To: "> Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 4:20 PM " > Subject: Re: Other Matters > It could and would be a great help - if they would give us a list of > bought in products I believe I can identify most of the Lucas electrical equipment used on the 400- "405 also the individual component parts for each item e.g starter motor etc.,to " able these to be repaired. Some of these components are readily available and others are difficult to fine and one have to make it. I also know a number of people that can repair the device. I also know the part Nos for rubbers supplied by them and fitted by Bristol Cars Ltd.. If you need help please contact me. "Part Nos for Wilmot Breadon door handles, fly ring gear and much more " useful/useless information depending on you view this detail. To me it invaluable. . > Mike's Rear Lights for example - were almost certainly originally > derived from another production source... which if now identified as > a Lucas item - These are perhaps available or parts to re condition them. "> Adaptation is another route, see for example what Derek has done in " "> respect of his various Overdrive mods, but these are also expensive " > and obviously cannot be produced other than to specification and to > order. It is a fact that small batches are a problem but obtaining the quality is much more difficult. In the North of England we are surround by heavy "industrial works, Iron & Steel, Petrochemicals, Off Shore Rigs and other " Chemical works. I thought it would be very easy to M/C the casting and shafts I am now onto the 7th Machining Co before the quality control and hence the final product was acceptable to me and my standards. The casting and shaft are of excellent quality to same specification used B.C.Ltd and heat treatment Just for interest to install O/D using the original Bristol DESIGN this costs between £5.5K to £7 K. Using My design the cost is approximately £1.7K to £ 1.9K when carried by a reputable Bristol Restoration Workshop. a saving of approximately £6/700 if the work is carried by oneself. The installation is straight forward. > Is it possible to press Bristol Cars for this information and publish > the appropriate part numbers in the Newsletter or Bulletin or produce "> an annually updated list, which could also go onto the website? " I believe people have already tried without success. I suggest we walk alone and achieve want is wanted. The information is already there it just needs seeking out. With regards to other spare parts such as brake cylinders and bearings I have the original suppliers reference numbers. Regards Derek Hughes (The Quiet Survivor). If help is needed then shout for otherwise no one will ever know. [ my computer is in tears trying to assimilate these < quotes -] [ Convention states leave a line or a trailing quote and write ] [ reply as plain text thereafter. I favour one blank line.... ] [ Never use headings without a quotation mark otherwise the ] [ server could break your answer and send the heading and text ] [ thereafter back to the original source. I hope this helps..? ] [ A quote is not a quote where its not needed - Postmaster. ] "Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:09:18 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: RE: Bristol-related article Meanwhile another current classic mag (Classic and Sports car?) features a comparison of a FN-BMW328 and an AC Ace Bristol. The Ace is also shown on the cover (vivid red). Douglas Wilson. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Bernard [mailto:andy.bernard@ukonline.co.uk] Sent: 03 September 2000 17:35 Subject: Bristol 403 article In this month's Thoroughbred & Classic Cars there is an article comparing (?) a 403 with the 1952 Cooper F2. Also one on the 1970 Ford Capri 1600 GT XLR...... Andy Bernard "Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:17:22 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Fw: Other Matters References: <001801c0215e$239fede0$e759883e@freeserve.co.uk> "In article <001801c0215e$239fede0$e759883e@freeserve.co.uk>, " Derek Hughes wrote: > Hello Bob. > Just a few short answers to your e mail which may help Thanks Derek I'm still trying to decode the rest.... ?%-o "Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:33:57 -0700 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: Spares " Hello All Bristol Owners, " " I am writing from the US and I would like to talk,(briefly) about spares. " I have been supplying spares as I can to those here that need help. With very few exceptions I have been able to fill most needs. Off hand I can only think of an item or two that I fell short with. I know this can not compare to the amount of spares that the combined sales of the UK outlets move but we have fewer cars here too. I keep in stock several hundred parts "for 400-412, but no where near Bristol Cars reported inventory. I do not " wish to try taking away any sales from other vendors to be honest. I started collecting these parts for my many cars of my own collection. As "far as a price sheet, this would be impossible for me to do as the prices " change regularly as what I get these parts for changes by the day. I have "no problem preparing a list of what I have for other to see, though I have " parts that are literally irreplaceable. I add a couple of parts to inventory weekly and at this time I believe I have recovered less than 1% of my investment. I do not do this to make money. There are allot of parts "out there to be had, and a great many upgrades of materials that they are " "made of. As far as a clubs' role in the remanufacture in parts, that is " another problem. The vast cost of doing this times the hundreds of items needed is a thought I could not imagine. I think the best thing to do is "get the clubs together to bulk order the items needed, whether it be from " Bristol Cars or private company. As far as price I do not understand the pricing system form some suppliers. Those who I order from that side of the pond(you know who you are) I get great service and pricing form. I know my customers would expect nothing less from me. " I hope this will shed some light on the parts business, or not. " Regards Shawn Thomas "Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:57:33 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard "Subject: RE: Clubhouse idea (Messrs Hughes and Barton), 412 lights " "On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:01:28 +0100, Douglas Wilson A0wrote: " ">Just out of interest, if rear lights for a 412 (or any car for " that matter) ">are unavailable, what substitutes are suggested (and what body " surgery if ">any)? A0 Is ""temporary"" rewiring to separate bumper-mounted(*) " >rear-illumination/indicator/brake/reversing lamps a feasible option? A0(*)or >board-mounted eg as on caravans? I suppose cosmetic change would be an improvement on a 412 ;-) >Douglas Wilson. >>A0-----Original Message----- >>A0From: Michael W Barton [mailto:mailhost@jblltd.demon.co.uk] >>A0Sent: 16 September 2000 13:37 >>A0To: Forum >>A0Subject: Other Matters >Dear All >Derek Hughes has raised some interesting points and I comment on those I >feel qualified to (!) as Honorary Treasurer and a committee member. >1) Remanufacture of spares by the club. >At an AGM some years ago (our secretary could tell us which but I think '96) >it was agreed that #2000 be made available for remanufacture of rubber parts ">as an experiment. The committee never heard anything further, no " reports on ">progress, no requests for money, no appearance of spare parts, " until just >recently (August 2000) when David Hughes produced some 405 window rubbers. I >recall at the subsequent AGM Dave Crownshaw explained that spares previously >believed to be unavailable could in fact be obtained from Australia. Perhaps >Dave as Spares Co-coordinator would like to comment on this/clarify this for >our benefit? ">As a group we are very fortunate, some clubs support long dead " " marques, " ">whereas we seem to have an active manufacturer, we have a group " of A0active >specialists. Compared to other marques we do not seem to have many insoluble >spares problems. I am not aware of many cars off the road for lack of parts >or lack of a solution to a spares problem. (On the other hand I know of many >cars off the road for lack of money!!) ">We have an annual income from subscriptions of #22,000 and rely " entirely on >volunteer efforts. The club is already budgeting a loss this year. This >money would not go very far into spares production. Bristol Cars tell us ">they have #1,500,000 of spares available and the other " specialists have >reproduced or sourced spares on a commercial basis. If we did try to go into ">spares how do we prioritise ?, As an individual member I would " like rear ">lights for a 412 which are unavailable, is that more or less " important than >your steering ball joint rubbers? ">I believe that we should encourage Bristol Cars, and the other " specialists >to supply reasonable quality spares at reasonable prices and encourage them " newsletter, " >bulletin and email forum is one vehicle to do this. ">2) Club reserves, annual income and expenditure. " ">The AGM decided some years ago, in the days of high inflation, " to go for >subscription rises only when essential and then to hold these >possible. Immediately after a subscription rise the club would record annual >surpluses and build reserves and in later years record annual deficits and >use up reserves. Our last subscription rise was in the early '90s. We are >budgeting to make a loss this year and be using up reserves. Hopefully our >reserves will keep us going for some time without a subscription increase >but that is now in the medium rather than distant future. >3) Club house >As the committee member who arranged (with Geoff Hawkins help) the last AGM >I'm glad you enjoyed the visit to the Hunt House. The RREC and the Sir Henry ">Royce Memorial Foundation have the benefit of over 6,000 members " ">800) and some wealthy benefactors who got the whole thing going, " It would be >a dream come true for me to twe could achieve a permanent facility for >ourselves. The committee would welcome any thoughts from members about how ">to get this off the ground?, how much it would cost?, where we " would get the >money from ?. >Any thoughts or comments will be enthusiastically read and our committee ">works hard to provide what you want, if we don't please tell " us. >Michael W Barton >Honorary Treasurer >Bristol Owners Club "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 09/19/2000 at 4:52:46 " PM "Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:51:36 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: RE: Other Matters - Nnnnggg! "Sirs, " "Forgive me, mine isn't the reply of a Gentleman: apart from being rather " long (you are covering numerous topics) I find this particular e-mail exchange of yours below is ... erm ... indigestible. "Maybe it's just me, a mere mortal of limited mental capacities late on a " dismal Tuesday afternoon.... "But I am thinking of starting a ""Be Kind to Brain Cells"" movement.... " Is there some distress about the club treasurer's work that needs to be addressed? Is there also some distress about the club's spares-sourcing capabilities that needs some constructive input from the membership-at-large? Can someone advise pls? Douglas Wilson. -----Original Message----- From: Derek Hughes [mailto:derek@bristol400.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 17 September 2000 23:47 Subject: Fw: Other Matters Hello Michael how are you?? O.K . @ the moment I presume. This e-mail is "sent unchecked. If you find any mistakes tell my computer, it is responsible " for them. I wish I had not written wot I rote.( spell check required). Because it has "caused me a lot of work and wasted a lot of people's time, not to mention " the cost. It is just as well that I am connected by/via/with N.T.L. I wonder how they are getting along with the spares situation and whether they have similar problems?. I doubt it since their computers are out of date when "they purchase them and with us silly bbbblud, is it allowed Bobs C?,. er, " "fellows will do, they(NTL of course) are kept in such luxury that they can " "afford to throw them away when they stop working. It is a bit like, when " "one is in the prime of his/her career, be careful Derek, this could be " "classed as discrimination, and the Boss comes along one bright day, sorry it " "was, and say's to you, we have too much SPARE capacity and therefore we " "are making you Redundant to sort this out. No problem, you say I will go " home and work on my Bristol providing I can get some Spares from the suppliers otherwise I will be spare and I suppose thrown away just like those infernal computers.!! :-). What would we do without them?. So I suppose they don't have our problems. Thank God for Simplicity of thought and machine!!. "What are you prattling on about Geoff H might be saying, really I do not " "know, is the answer. OH oh ! just a minute, yes, sorry, I was trying to " "reply sensibly to your e mail, but my collective thoughts forgot all about " that. Never mind here we go. > ----- Original Message ----- "> From: ""Michael W Barton"" " > To: "> Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 1:37 PM " > Subject: Other Matters > Dear All > Derek Hughes has raised some interesting points and I comment on those I > feel qualified to (!) Not sure Michael?. > as Honourary Treasurer does this mean you do not pay subscriptions/prescriptions like other Honorary Members. This must be a good perk for all the hard work you do. "Although these are not too bad,i.e.,the subscriptions, I think these have " "stagnated so I was told by, Geoff Hawkins. The basis of which I am unsure. " > and a committee member. "I must say I am getting to know you all much better, although I cannot see " "your eyes.. That is one problem that I have with the e mail system, you " communicate with people who are possibly on the other side of the world and the next minute they are your neighbour. I sometimes think of them as the faceless ones because I do not know where they are coming from "Literally translated, where do they live?., which language do they " "speak,how " do they think. Without this information I am pondering if I may be upsetting them by my openness/frankness/blunt but honesty who can be very helpful. > 1) Remanufacture of spares by the club. "This is a good idea, why did you not raise this before now. " > At an AGM some years ago (our secretary could tell us which but I think '96) no 1997 or was it 98 Geoff. > it was agreed that #2000 be made available for remanufacture of rubber parts > as an experiment. See Geoff Hawkins e mail on the 16/9/00 for corrections to this text. "> The committee never heard anything further, no reports on " "> progress, no requests for money, no appearance of spare parts, until just " > recently (August 2000) when David Hughes produced some 405 window rubbers. Now this is very interesting MichaeI it must been the same meeting that I attended when was it do you remember? Did David Hughes submit an invoice to you?. What made you recall this specific date August 2000 ?. Did that """405"" sitting in a garage get some new rubbers. " This was obviously a different meeting to the one which Geoff Hawkins attended and probably gives the Members some very valuable information to ask the Chairman some very awkward questions. But we will not trouble his thoughts at this point in time. Maybe later on when we need to resurrect the spares SAGA.again I hope this will not be necessary. Where is that 405 living?. Who so desperately sat waiting in some garage "chatting to his/her stable mate, saying: " "where did you get your lovely new rubbers from? By they do look nice, I bet " "they were expensive. The ""405"" to mate, It was really nice of " David Hughes (sorry/my apologies I used Simon in my e mail to Geoffrey "Herdman, David, but that is my son's name and my little brain is becoming " confused. It was nice chatting to you at the AGM in Sir Henry Rolls or's Museum). I suppose (said the mate) some of the other Club Members would like some too. It's a pity Geoffrey did not speak to that fellow in---er -- where was it now ?. "Oh, yes, I remember he lives in Australia somewhere. Yes that's right he " is "called---??. Something Ross, er, Ross on Wye?. No. don't be silly that's a " place "in Wales, " "this fellow lives in New South Wales, AUSTRALIA, you nut, not " "MONMOUTHSHIRE, you idiot!! who is it?,err, Ian Ross the spares man, " "Mr D Crownshaw, our Co-Ordinator for SPARES knows him very well. But I " "suppose the ""AA"" don't list his post code. For the benefit of our overseas " "Members, this is the infamous Automobile Association who help people when " they breakdown due to poor maintenance and lack of good quality spares. "Now! I remember we were discussing parts or more succinctly put, the " LACK OF THEM.!!. Members who have no comprehension of this knowledgeable organisation in the U.K. This is a Club which you can join who do not make anything. That is right Bob's C is it not? or is it the Scottish AA up there in the "north, i.e. of London, that is except take Money Out Of Simple People who " cannot maintain/keep their Motor Car going with the correct spares because there is "shortage.) ?? They do make a list,if you really want to know, of all the " members Post Code so that our Committee Delegate can ensure we all receive our Newsletter/Bulletin when this is Published. I could tell you another tale/story but I will leave this for the Chairman to transcript "sometime. The title ""Stockton on Tees"" is located in which County??. " "Lane, " "please give me your best guess. Do'nt say Cleveland, otherwise you will " get a "smart reply from the Committee, that this is now another failure due to " progress and poor quality of goods delivered. Generally the demise/downfall of many good manufacturers in this high technology world of ours. Who said we do not "want quality spares?. Those who cannot deliver will soon be dead, that is in " my opinion only. > recall at the subsequent AGM Dave Crownshaw explained that spares previously believed to be unavailable could in fact be obtained from Australia. "> Perhaps, Dave as Spares Co-coordinator would like to comment on " this/clarify > this for our benefit? "And of course, not to mention the Members too. A little editing took place " here so that we could all understand the point that Michael was trying to make "> As a group we are very fortunate, some clubs support long dead marques, " "> whereas we seem to have an active manufacturer, we have a group of active " > specialists. Compared to other marques we do not seem to have many insoluble > spares problems. "True, but we do have some. " > I am not aware of many cars off the road for lack of parts > or lack of a solution to a spares problem. (On the other hand I know of many > cars off the road for lack of money!!) "I can probably agree with this statement, but in my opinion it would help " those in this situation if a list of available spares and prices were available in order """Completion Programme"" based on their personal restraints. No more or less " than I would expect to find in any reasonable Company which I would be to "work with or ask of them. This is only based on my own experience, " standards and requirements. These will be different to yours perhaps. "> We have an annual income from subscriptions of #22,000 " Well this is interesting. What are the Clubs Targets for future growth and "Commitments?. Have the Committee, anything in mind?. How about making a " "commitment to our very resourceful colleagues Downunder by, saying the " B.O.C in the U.K will support financially remanufacturing spare parts to the tune of ??? This a decision made in the inner sanctum by the Committee .(#5k/year or whatever). In other words create a tooling fund to which we are "all contributing, but more important that we all have equal benefits. " This would also have to app;y to our equally resourceful American Colleagues. > and rely entirely on volunteer efforts. With these volunteers there would be no Club So we thank them for their tireless strength in driving the Club To wherever it goes. > The club is already budgeting a loss this year. Oh dear Bang Goes that good idea I just mentioned. Or I am wrong again he says to himself out loud. > This money would not go very far into spares production. Bristol Cars tell us "> they have #1,500,000 of spares available " "Please send us all a price list, we might be able to purchase some " desperately wanted parts. I think most of us will be able to interpretate these given a little time or ask the right questions after all I think most people are reasonably intelligent some much brighter than others.. > the stock a little and the other specialists have > reproduced or sourced spares on a commercial basis. If we did try to go into "> spares how do we prioritise ?, " "The co ordinators and the controllers make the based on the Members Demands, " (Plural) > As an individual member I would like rear lights for a 412 which are "unavailable, " > is that more or less important than your steering ball joint rubbers? No it ccarries the same inportantance. Without the required replacement part no doubt our cars will not pass the M.O.T. annual test. By the way we co erse the appropriate Parliament Member to join our Committee ?/. He maybe useful. "> I believe that we should encourage Bristol Cars, and the other specialists " > to supply reasonable quality spares at reasonable prices and encourage them > to make available information on stocks. This is the least I would expect of any one worth there salt. Do we not agree?. "> Our club, with its newsletter, > bulletin and email forum is one vehicle " to do > this. I totally agree with you. "> 2) Club reserves, annual income and expenditure. " "> The AGM decided some years ago, in the days of high inflation, to go for " > subscription rises only when essential and then to hold these for as long as > possible. Immediately after a subscription rise the club would record annual > surpluses and build reserves and in later years record annual deficits and > use up reserves. Our last subscription rise was in the early '90s. We are > budgeting to make a loss this year and be using up reserves. Hopefully our > reserves will keep us going for some time without a subscription increase I think that if the committee can put up a good case for increasing the "subscriptions then I believe, and I can only speak for myself, but being a " reasonable sort of fellow I would accept the committee's recommendations. > but that is now in the medium rather than distant future. Thats PO.K. by me and I assume others. > 3) Club house > As the committee member who arranged (with Geoff Hawkins help) the last AGM > I'm glad you enjoyed the visit to the Hunt House. The RREC and the Sir Henry "> Royce Memorial Foundation have the benefit of over 6,000 members (we have " "> 800) and some wealthy benefactors who got the whole thing going, It would " be > a dream come true for me to we could achieve a permanent facility for > ourselves. I entirely agree with your thoughts and sentiments. It may only be a pipe dream but if we do not have what do we hang onto in desperate times. Perhaps we can start in a more modest way and then grow into better things. Has Mr "Anhony Crook not got a small niche that we could fit into, then gradually " get a little fatter until we have to move to bigger things. Just another stupid thought. > The committee would welcome any thoughts from members about how "> to get this off the ground?, " I have given one . any more?. "> how much it would cost?, where we would get the> money from ?. " These are big questions and far beyond the present possibilities of my present "brain power. but if you give me sometime and a better spec., I am sure that " I or " someone.much cleverer than me, can make an estimate of these costs. " > Any thoughts or comments will be enthusiastically read and our committee "> works hard to provide what you want, if we don't please tell us. " I am sure you all mean it. Thank you Michael for your comments I trust mine give you fruit for thought if "nothing else. Good night, I look forward to receiving some further advice " or decisions from you. Keep up the good work we may get there eventually. Regards Derek Hughes. (A Quiet Survivor). Here endeth the third lesson. Derek. "Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:07:20 -0400 " From: Adrian Chadwick Subject: Re: IML: 61 Rubber Sender: mailing-list-owner@imperialclub.com References: "Greetings, " The restoration shop which did the body on my 1975 coupe has recently "been asked to do a 1961 convertible (black on black - wow!) , they are " searching for a source for windshield and door rubber seals. Any leads on suppliers for reproduction parts? Thanks Adrian ----------------- http://www.imperialclub.com ----------------- This message was sent to you by the Imperial Mailing List. Please reply to mailing-list@imperialclub.com and your response will be shared with everyone. Private messages (and attachments) for the Administrators should be sent to oic-admin-owner@egroups.com "To UN-SUBSCRIBE, go to http://imperialclub.com/unsubscribe.htm " "Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:28:58 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Other Matters - Nnnnggg! References: Come on chaps (and lasses excused in this instance) rein it in a bit. Useful hint. If you are replying to parts of a letter then select those parts as quotes and state your reply - repost - attack - whatever... but p l e a s e for the sake of understanding - if not decorum don't quote "things you are not actually replying to, unless the extra words " actually aid understanding of the subject matter. My hard disc is threatening another nervous breakdown ))#..(wah!!) Another useful hint. Use a space after your chosen quote indicator to achieve 'this' not '>this' ...you'll find its easier to follow the thread of the discussion believe me. "rgds., Bob Charlton " "Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:50:38 +0100 " From: Webmaster Subject: London Secretary Having been appraised of the death of Kevin Kennedy the London "Section Secretary, I've changed the website /regions.html page to " reflect the situation. I don't think I ever met Kevin - but am sure suitable communication will be made with his family by our Hon.Secy./Committee. Just to let you all know... Bob Charlton * Webmaster@boc.net * http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:14:57 +0100 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: Spares... "Folks, " I have followed the recent spares debate with interest - and some trepidation as it seems that it is possible to be 'flamed' pretty badly even by BOC members;-) I have a need for the following spares for my model 409: "1/ Rear light gaskets - apparently plastic, not rubber, these have been " pinched through at the top and bottom by over-tightening of the lamp assembly. Bristol Cars Limited cannot supply and noted that they are from the Hilman Minx. I'd appreciate knowing where else to ask. "2/ Front side/indicator assy - my passenger side unit is corroded and " rather untidy - but it still works. A replacement would be great. Plus "rubber/foam gaskets for same, 2 off. " "3/ Boot edge rubber moulding. Plus some of the black draught-excluded " that Spencer Lane Jones (I understand) put on the underside of the boot of a lovely 411 that was at Silverstone... "4/ Any guidance on how the boot light switch was ever supposed to work " - just seems to be two pieces of wire against a naff cam and doesn't seem to have a snowball's chance in hell of ever working... "Any thoughts or advice gratefully received... Shawn, I'd be very happy to " get them from USA - if they are available in San Jose area today my Mum and Dad are currently in Scotts Valley minding some kids... Cheers Ian Ian Beeby Sales Manager Questus Limited ...a WFI Company "Fax: +44 1483 400909 " "E-mail: Ian.Beeby@questus.co.uk " "Web: http://www.questus.co.uk " "Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:58:41 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Other Matters and Copyrights. Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Geoffrey. You wrote ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Geoffrey Herdman"" " "Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 10:07 AM " Subject: RE: Other Matters > Derek "> Nice to be appreciated. No we didn't have a committee meeting, call it " > devotion to duty!! or some such. < In reply to your brief and appreciative response I wish to inform you that according to the latest information available to me the only Copyright registered in the world up to 1998 in relation to cars is: " BRISTOL CARS , Concorde Road, Touchway, Bristol, Avon, BS12 5TB. " I can find no reference to Bristol Cars Ltd. I request that you official record this in the B.O.C. Records and use it whenever necessary to benefit the Clubs activities to accord with your devotion to duty. There are a number of points in my e mail which attention. Derek "Location:- Stockton-on Tees, England. " P.S. I just noticed in Bulletin No 118 that someone has pressed the DEL/SHIFT button on Bristol Cars Ltd and removed them from the fly sheet and "placed them on Page 10 and reduced in size to approx 3"" by 4.5"".(I can " measure in metric but I cannot think metric. Now that tells you something.!!) Is this another economic cut back or a sign of the times?. "Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:34:10 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Hawkins Subject: Re: Spares... Re Ian Beeby's queries on spares for his 409: "If you have explored the Bristol Cars avenue with no luck, I offer the " following: Rear lights are off the Rootes Group Hillman Super Minx. I believe that there is somebody advertising Rootes spares in Practical Classics or the like; or try Autojumbles. "If the front/side indicator (repeater lamp) is the same as the 410, try " Holden Vintage and Classic. Side marker Lamp 'E' Marked L734/56859. A310 each. Front indicator/side lights are from the Healey Sprite/MG Midget. Holden "vintage @ A335.95 each. LH side, L584/52506. RH side, L584/52507. " Geoff Hawkins. "Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:53:50 +0100 " From: CPK Smithies Subject: Copyrights. Importance: Normal A copyright does not need to be registered in order to exist. There merely needs to be some evidence that it is claimed by the person or entity entitled to claim it. That's my understanding. "Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:42:13 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Other Matters and Copyrights - legalese only "While my recollection of English law on the point is a bit hazy, Bristol " does not need to register anything to have copyright in its designs. "Copyright in an industrial context, lasts for 25 years after the ending of " "commercial exploitation. However, in items like car parts (which resides " "only in the drawings, not the items themselves, ie, if there are no " "drawings, there is no copyright), copyright protection is narrow. It will " prohibit direct duplication but can probably be avoided if there are detail "improvements. To speculate, if it were made from a better material and did " not have Bristol number stampings and the like. There is another form of industrial design protection which requires registration and lasts for 25 years or 10 years without registration. For "the latter, a ""reasonable royalty"" obligatory license can be imposed in the " last five years of protection. A different regimen applies to items created before the last 10 or 12 years. Given the fact that Bristol probably did not make a great number of parts in the first place and most "of the things it did make, have ceased to be protected, it's likely that " the enthusiastic collector could have these items reproduced without fear. "Frankly, I would think that if someone were to take the initiative to build " "new tailights for a 412, Bristol would be grateful. " "However, things get somewhat complicated when considering the US or " "Australia. In the US for instance, I think the protection would cover only " "the non-functional aspects of the item, which, for something like a " "windscreen rubber, is basically nothing. Determining its duration is a not " worth going into here. Regards Shane >< In reply to your brief and appreciative response I wish to inform you that >according to the latest information available to me the only Copyright >registered in the world up to 1998 in relation to cars is: "> BRISTOL CARS , Concorde Road, Touchway, Bristol, Avon, BS12 5TB. " >I can find no reference to Bristol Cars Ltd. I request that you official >record this in the B.O.C. Records and use it whenever necessary to benefit >the Clubs activities to accord with your devotion to duty. "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:53:45 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: import tax and duty Does anyone know what the applicable import tax/duty is on re manufactured car parts coming into the UK ? Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 9/21/2000 " "Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:24:20 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Other Matters and Copyrights - legalese only Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hello Shane. < You e mail: " Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 6:42 PM " Subject: Other Matters and Copyrights - legalese only < your explanation on the legal right of a Copyright is so succinct and clearly understood with regard to design drawings. Having spent my entire career in Engineering Plant Process Design as an Electrical Engineer in The "Iron & Steel, Non Ferrous And Petrochemical Industry, it is extremely " difficult to police anyone copying the design and patent since a very simple change made it different. " > To speculate, if it were made from a better material and did " > not have Bristol number stampings and the like. < The 25 year period has expired and this confirms any spare part can be "remanufactured. Thank you very much Shane, here rests the B.O.C case on " spares. Derek. "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:11:06 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Other Matters - Nnnnggg! Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services To all Forum & B.O.C. Readers. - ---- Original Message ----- "From: ""Douglas Wilson"" " "Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 3:51 PM " Subject: RE: Other Matters - Nnnnggg! . "> Maybe it's just me, a mere mortal of limited mental capacities late on a " > dismal Tuesday afternoon.... "> But I am thinking of starting a ""Be Kind to Brain Cells"" movement.... " < I wish to offer my sincere apologies for any infliction's caused to body or mind by my prattling in recent e mails. > Is there also some distress about the club's spares-sourcing > capabilities that needs some constructive input from the > membership-at-large? Can someone advise pls? < In my opinion there is a problem in obtaining good quality spares for the """2/2.2 litre"" cars. For other models I have no personal experience, but " recent e mails indicate that this may be the case to. All members are free to speak. >From the information recently passed on the Forum there is considerable amount of information held by individuals on spares availablity and alternatives but this is not widely known by all members. If the information is assemble into one document for each model then I believe this would be very useful to many members. On the 2 litre cars I can source or make most parts in metal or paper. But rubber bits are a different story In some respects I do not have a problem but for those who cannot make parts or implant parts it must be hard keeping the cars in tip top shape unless you have a big bank account. < Do you have a problem with spares Douglas ?. < With the prattlings there is a story. You only have to find the proof Douglas:-) Derek. "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:14:24 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Copyrights. Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " On 20/09/00 ""CPK Smithies"" wrote. " > A copyright does not need to be registered in order to exist. There merely > needs to be some evidence that it is claimed by the person or entity > entitled to claim it. That's my understanding. < thank you for the clarification to the B.O.C. members. a Copyright is very difficult to enforce. < Derek "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:29:30 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes "Subject: Fw: Clubhouse idea (Messrs Hughes and Barton), 412 lights " Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " On 18/09/00 ""Douglas Wilson"" wrote " "> There was I, middle age passing me by, considering whether to go in for " "training to rant for England, then Derek H came along.... :) " < You never now when you have to change your tack. " "Subject: Fw: Clubhouse idea (Messrs Hughes and Barton), 412 lights " Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " On 18/09/00 ""Douglas Wilson"" wrote " > Just an idea.... "Given that RREC, VCC, VSCC, BRDC, BARC etc. are so much better-endowed than " "BOC both in £p terms and in numbers of members, could perhaps BOC join with " "other small ""quality"" marque clubs to acquire or at least gain the use of " premises? say via something like a Bristol/Morgan/Gordon-Keeble/Lotus OC """axis""? Or the FBHVC ? " "< I propose BMW, Frazer Nash, A.C, B.C.Ltd, Kensington Road or Bob " Charlton's in Scotland. Derek. -- "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:00:42 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: : Spares... Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " On 19/09/00 ""Geoffrey Hawkins"" wrote " > Rear lights are off the Rootes Group Hillman Super Minx. I believe that there is somebody advertising Rootes spares in Practical Classics or the like; or try Autojumbles. < Very valuable tip. "> If the front/side indicator (repeater lamp) is the same as the 410, try " Holden Vintage and Classic. Side marker Lamp 'E' Marked L734/56859. £10 each. < Again same comment as above. > Front indicator/side lights are from the Healey Sprite/MG Midget. Holden "vintage @ £35.95 each. LH side, L584/52506. RH side, L584/52507. " < Comment as above. "< If this information is collated by someone under ""409 Bristols Cars"" and " "he is listed in the Club Magazine(s), then it be very easy to retrieve the " information for the benefit of new owners of this marque or members. This philosphy could apply to all models. < Thanks Geoff. Derek. "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:47:53 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Spares Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services "On 19/09/00 ""Shawn Thomas"" wrote " " > Hello All Bristol Owners, " "< Hello Shawn, nice to here from you. " "> I am writing from the US and I would like to talk,(briefly) about " spares. > I have been supplying spares as I can to those here that need help. With very few exceptions I have been able to fill most needs. < This is very good news and brilliant for all B.OC Members. If we had known earlier it may have saved time on my prattling recently. Perhaps I could reduce your stocks by some purchases and act as your agent/co ordinator in the U.K. Will you please send me a copy of your Stock List for the 2/2.2 litre cars in particular and any and other cars?. I need some parts and maybe other Members are in the same boat. I can circulate the informationto them. I intend collating all the 2 litre Spares information that I can collect and issue it to interested Members in a similar manner mentioned in my e mail dated 17 /09/00 to Geoff Hawkins. Action is often better than words.!! > I started collecting these parts for my many cars of my own collection. "> As far as a price sheet, this would be impossible for me to do as the " prices > change regularly as what I get these parts for changes by the day. I have "> no problem preparing a list of what I have for other to see, though I have " > parts that are literally irreplaceable. I add a couple of parts to > inventory weekly and at this time I believe I have recovered less than 1% > of my investment. I do not do this to make money. < This is refreshing to read Shawn compared with some of the outlets/ "collections over here (you know who some of them are I am sure, but there " are many very greedy people only to eager to take advantage of unsuspecting buyers). In the past I have bought parts classed as excellent condition an upon receipt immediately returned them Who is out of pocket ??. Others instances are. I have given parts away to Members who were missing some "items, loaned parts of my cars for patterns with no monetary gains. The " latter I believe is the true spirit of a Club. On the other hand I do not "believe one should be out of pocket or taken advantage of, a favour for a " favour is a good bargain to me. I think I can say that I am owed quite a few. If further details are required please contact me direct. " > As far as a clubs' role in the remanufacture in parts, that is another " problem. "< I have never believed this to be so. Hence my views, Maybe just like you " I just carry on and do what I need too. I feel sorry for others who do not have these skills or facilities. If I can help you at this end please let me know. If we all pool our resources As Club Members I believe the problem of spares will ease. "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:22:10 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: more spares Regarding the sourcing of spare parts which may have been used on contemporary vehicles: I used to belong to the Reliant Scimitar owner's club and they published a booklet for members called the Alterparts list. In fact the front indicator/side lights in question are also from the Scimitar Coupe and "Triumph Heralds. See, I knew that, and if there was a central point I could " have passed that on. I'm sure there must be resourceful members out there with other pearls of wisdom. Could the Newsletter ask if anyone is willing to act as a collater for these tit-bits. Ultimately we could produce our own Alterparts booklet. I've been told that for a 603: Air cleaner is the same as an early Ford Transit; Brake pads and calipers are Jaguar; Brake master cylinder and "ignition switch are Range Rover. If substantiated, this is really useful " stuff. Another contact for lights is the Europa spares catalogue (mostly kit-car bits). They do a very good substitute for 603 interior courtesy lights and can supply the push-in rear number plate lights amongst other things. If you want to re-model the rear of your 412 (and it can do no harm!) then there are complete clusters there too. "Just to rub in another advantage of LPG, when the country runs out of petrol " you can still get your kids back to University! Nic "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:22:10 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: more spares References: "In article , " Nic Raine wrote: much usefull stuff... and gnash!gnash! "> Just to rub in another advantage of LPG, when the country runs out " > of petrol you can still get your kids back to University! Wait till you can't get down the road for pseudo parked lorries... Rolling in crawler gear round and round every roundabout! heh! heh! ;-P "Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:13:26 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes "Subject: Fw: Clubhouse idea (Messrs Hughes and Barton), 412 lights " Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " On 18/09/00 ""Douglas Wilson"" wrote " "> There was I, middle age passing me by, considering whether to go in for " "training to rant for England, then Derek H came along.... :) " < You never now when you have to change your tack. :-). " Subject: Re: sundry mutterings and skidmarques Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <82.f4c9b2.26fc801b@cs.com> Hi Stefan. "Pleased to read your comments, I thought the ifernal M/C on your desk had " broken down. You have been so quiet.!! Only received your comments via the back door:-) recently. Derek "Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:47:58 +0100 " From: Ian Beeby Subject: RE: more spares This is an excellent idea. A collaboration between the spares coordinator and the web master could produce a really valuable service - not only for "Bristols! If any help in doing this can be offered, I'd be pleased to " assist. I will even volunteer to make a WAP enabled look-up service! Cheers Ian -----Original Message----- From: Nic Raine [mailto:nic@rainemusic.demon.co.uk] "Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 16:22 " Subject: more spares Regarding the sourcing of spare parts which may have been used on contemporary vehicles: I used to belong to the Reliant Scimitar owner's club and they published a booklet for members called the Alterparts list. In fact the front indicator/side lights in question are also from the Scimitar Coupe and "Triumph Heralds. See, I knew that, and if there was a central point I could " have passed that on. I'm sure there must be resourceful members out there with other pearls of wisdom. Could the Newsletter ask if anyone is willing to act as a collater for these tit-bits. Ultimately we could produce our own Alterparts booklet. I've been told that for a 603: Air cleaner is the same as an early Ford Transit; Brake pads and calipers are Jaguar; Brake master cylinder and "ignition switch are Range Rover. If substantiated, this is really useful " stuff. Another contact for lights is the Europa spares catalogue (mostly kit-car bits). They do a very good substitute for 603 interior courtesy lights and can supply the push-in rear number plate lights amongst other things. If you want to re-model the rear of your 412 (and it can do no harm!) then there are complete clusters there too. "Just to rub in another advantage of LPG, when the country runs out of petrol " you can still get your kids back to University! Nic "Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 06:30:11 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: listings of possible parts for substitution Cc: Geoffrey Herdman Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " On 22/09/99 ""Andrew Blow"" wrote, " Subject: listings of possible parts for substitution > Perhaps Derek H. (and/or others) might like to collate all this > information and submit it for publication in the bulletin and on the > web-site. < If you refer to my recent e mails to I confirmed that a list for the 400 to 403 (could be extended up the range) will be prepare by me for publication. If any member have any contributions to make these would be welcome and incorporated if forwarded to me. In order to obtained all members contributions and make them aware of the Clubs activities a note could be published in our magazines perhaps to convey this requirement.(Action :- Adrian and Andrew) Compilation will take a few months and I intend working on this during the Winter months with a targeted 1st publication in spring 2001 or earlier. "Derek Hughes, " "23, Moulton Grove, " "Fairfield, " "Stocton on Tees, " TS19 7RH. England. "Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 10:18:45 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Bemused "I have read with bemused delight the recent mailings on ..... well, " various subjects. Can not pretend I understood all of it there was rathe r a lot of jokes and digs which were very 8CInB9 . As a V8 owner I seem to be part of an exclusive minority not privy to the concerns of the old B3real Bristol types. "I so far have had no real parts sourcing problems, I am however getting a " bit peeved had having my beloved ugly duckling knocked ! Ok so the 412 i no beauty queen but it has unique qualities which are much appreciated by those radical enough to see beyond the superficial. I suppose I should be thankful for the 412s ugly duckling image - it made it affordable for me ! Regards David. "Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:00 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: lay off the 412 Cc: BullEd@boc.net "Am I alone in regarding the 412 as one of Bristol's more inspired designs, " and much more integrated in all its details? You will see this when the various answers to the need for original head light and tail light clusters are bodged up by owners desperate for some way to keep these fine cars on the road! Andrew Blow BOC Bulletin Editor "The Rookery, Winterbourne Monkton " BullEd@boc.net "Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 16:37:28 +0100 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: Bemused References: <20000924091052.HFWV18977.mta3-svc.virgin.net@[62.252.208.2]> "Hear , Hear , " "I agree , as the owner of a 407 , I feel that we V8 owners are getting a bit " of a knock for no good reason. "At least my lights are cheap and plentifull , I do not think Bristols could " have found a cheaper way of illuminatig a 407 which pays off now. "I cannot imagine them putting Land Rover lights on £135,000 worth of car " today ! Would anybody know where to scource a gearbox for a 407. Also are Bristols the only scource of windscreen surrounds?. "Thank you, " Nick Challacombe. "Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:33:12 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Bemused References: <20000924091052.HFWV18977.mta3-svc.virgin.net@[62.252.208.2]> "In article <000e01c0263d$5ae6a760$f39793c3@o3o7t7>, " Nicholas Challacombe wrote: "> I cannot imagine them putting Land Rover lights on A3135,000 worth " > of car today ! What's this ... knocking my Disco!:-( They're good enough for the Range Rover Autobiography model which can easily exceed that price.... Land Rover's parts can indeed be most useful... read on. I adopted Plastic Rectagular and fully waterproof Fog and Reverse "lamps off the Land Rover 'Defender' series for my Type 400, and " "mounted them on on the face of Boot well either side of number plate, " because I duplicated the Rear Red Stop and Side Light bulbs under a Red Lens of original pattern to sandblasted Glass clear original. Per notes published in Bulletin some time ago. Also used slimline rectangular fully plastic sealed Indicator lamps off Volkswagen early 'Polo' series... mounted at corners below "bumpers in Metal Boxes, mounted on Bumper spring irons. A very neat " solution. They do also have an audible alarm and are operated via the original Clockwork Timer Switch. The Semaphore type indicators are still retained and in full working order - but I fear more modern Trafficators are essential on the road in todays traffic. Most of the population wouldn't even see a Semaphore Flipper let alone know what it meant if they did... Just in case anyone is interested. Bob "Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:51:54 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Hawkins Subject: Spares "I have read all of the email traffic on spares for Bristols, and have the " following questions: "1. Throughout all of this, has anybody had the courtesy to discuss any of " "their ideas with Dave Crownshaw, the Spares Co-ordinator? " 2. I am aware that he knows of many sources for spares. Has anybody asked him to help them? "Kind regards, " Geoff Hawkins. "Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:52:26 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Hawkins Subject: Spares "I have read all of the email traffic on spares for Bristols, and have the " following questions: "1. Throughout all of this, has anybody had the courtesy to discuss any of " "their ideas with Dave Crownshaw, the Spares Co-ordinator? " 2. I am aware that he knows of many sources for spares. Has anybody asked him to help them? "Kind regards, " Geoff Hawkins. "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:26:09 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Spares References: <20000924165019.NFAX18977.mta3-svc.virgin.net@[62.253.73.248]> In article Geoffrey Hawkins wrote: > I am aware that he knows of many sources for spares. Has anybody > asked him to help them? I seem to recall someone saying he is in Australia... covering the Olympics. He may be available on email however. Hope this helps. "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:31:22 +0100 " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Spares References: <20000924165016.NFAN18977.mta3-svc.virgin.net@[62.253.73.248]> In article Geoffrey Hawkins wrote: > 2. I am aware that he knows of many sources for spares. Would it not be a good idea to publish that data then? I thought the main problem was lack of communication between those around the world with the info and those others seeking it like Michael seeking Rear Light fittings for his 412... Puzzled I am...? If someone has located same I might have missed the info... "rgds., Bob Charlton " "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:59:16 +0100 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Fw: My rubber moulding problem solved From: Alan Blackwood20 "Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 7:34 AM " Subject: My rubber moulding problem solved "Well I am pleased to be back on line again, the bug was not in my, or my " "servers system, but has now been shot. " "First thanks to our friends in Australia, my problem should now be " solved as they are able to supply me with the correct moulding. I am impressed that such a small club like BOC of Australia can provide such a wonderful service. I send them my grateful thanks. The following is a list of the parts available in Australia fro Iain Ross. RUBBER PARTS Windscreen Rubber for 400 & 401/3 Bulkhead rubber 401/3 Bumper mounting rubber 401/3 Door seal rubber 401/3 Door push button rubbers Jacking point rubbers Windscreen Wiper grommets ENGINE PARTS Fuel pump repair kits Cylinder head gaskets Valve guide sets Piston sets complete Thermo union Sump plug Cylinder head nuts Water pump blanking plate (Aluminium) Water pump bodies Exhaust nut Exhaust manifold gasket Clutch plate Torque buffer (Polyurethane) Solex carburettor gasket set Solex carburettor needle and seat (This sounds like it should be SU) BRAKE PARTS Wheel cylinder change -over front Wheel cylinder change -over rear Master cylinder repair kit Wheel cylinder rubber spreaders Hand brake rear cable boot GENERAL PARTS Pedal rubbers 400/1/3 Door buffer rubbers (Two sizes) Rear axle flexible oil retainer Flexible steering coupling Tie rod end rubber Rack & pinion telescopic sleeve "Rear suspension ""A"" bracket oil seal " Engine mounts (Change over) bonnet bracket brass Wiring diagrams 400-403 (Enlarged laminated) I think everyone will agree that our friends should be congratulated on "such a good job, we need the same service over here available to all our " members. "My grateful thanks, " "Alan Blackwood, Chiltern section member. " turbosim@turbosim.force9.co.uk Please switch Fancy text or attachements off - Thanks in anticipation "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:44:15 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Spares Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services All Members and Bob. On 25/09/00 You wrote Subject: Re: Spares > In article "> 20000924165019.NFAX18977.mta3-svc.virgin.net@[62.253.73.248]>, " > Geoffrey Hawkins wrote: > I am aware that he knows of many sources for spares. Has anybody > asked him ( David Crownshaw) to help them? < I seem to recall someone saying he is in Australia... covering the Olympics. He may be available on email however. "Nice one !! But do'nt forget the time difference he could be asleep. YES, " see e mails on Forum. Hope this helps too. Derel [who? - Oh! Derek!!!] "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:05:24 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Spares Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services All Members. " On 24/09/00 ""Geoffrey Hawkins"" Wrote ; " Subject: Spares "> I have read all of the email traffic on spares for Bristols, and have the " > following questions: "> 1. Throughout all of this, has anybody had the courtesy to discuss any of " "> their ideas with Dave Crownshaw, the Spares Co-ordinator? " "No since he is in Australia, according to Kathy. " > 2. I am aware that he knows of many sources for spares. Has anybody asked > him to help them? "Yes, on many occassions. " Regards Derek. " Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:28:58 +0100 " "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:28:26 +0100 " From: Stephen Wall Subject: Zagato Designs Just a quick note of support to the downtrodden owners of 412s. "Nearly all Zagato designs that I am aware of ""grow"" on the observer over " time. "I now think that the 412 is a wonderful peice of ""industrial"" design and " "is shamefully underestimated. I think that the ""targa"" type top detracts " from what would otherwise be a seminal 70s design. "I still prefer the 404 however. (Dark Red, D2 engine please........) " "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:00:19 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: 412 lights Gentlemen! "Despite the complaints about bodging, leave the 412 alone etc, my intentions " "remain good: if you've got a treasured and rare vehicle (any vehicle: 412, " "Brutsch Mopetta, Transit Mk 1, Conqueror MBT, VP Allegro...) which fails MoT " "because the lights have cracked lenses, or have faded or whatever, and " "replacements are absolutely unobtainable, what is to be done? Surely a neat " """bodge"" using accessory parts can be devised? I suggested a temporary " "arrangement pending renewal of availability of the proper parts, rather than " an approach which permanently disfigures the bodywork of one's treasured "machine - the ""bodge"" being removable and the fixing being neat but discreet " "lamps wired to serve as headlamps? Has some clever person done this, if so, " should he/she be writing about it in the Bulletin? "Legal q: if the ""manufacturer-supplied"" lamp units were disabled but left in " "place, but accessory lamps served in their place, would this be grounds for " refusing an MoT? I reflect that owners of old (pre-1960's) cars often install flashing trafficators to supplement the original semaphore arms (or their own hand "signals!), simply as a sensible safety measure. Maybe some install larger " rear lamps and brake lamps to give better illumination than the originals. "I admit the ""caravan board"" idea was put forward just to motivate " "discussion, although it exemplifies the ""temporary"" technique...... " Douglas W. "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:19:03 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Re: Zagato Designs Despite the fact that the 412 design grows on you over time - don't you think it is a bit of a let down compared to the 406 Zagato and 407 Zagato (which look quite well off the bat - though arguably don't have Bristol "styling cues to the same extent). All the same, if they were let loose on " designing the skin to a new Bristol I'm sure the results would be interesting - could be more distinctive than the car in development. >Just a quick note of support to the downtrodden owners of 412s. ">Nearly all Zagato designs that I am aware of ""grow"" on the observer over " time. ">I now think that the 412 is a wonderful peice of ""industrial"" design and " "is shamefully underestimated. I think that the ""targa"" type top detracts " from what would otherwise be a seminal 70s design. "Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:54 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Fw: listings of possible parts for substitution Cc: BullEd@boc.net Sounds good to me Derek. I will certainly publish a request for info in Bulletin 119 (due end Oct) and will keep space for your report/listing in 120 (copy date Dec 31; publication planned for early Feb) or 121 (due out mid -June ) depending on how you get on. Derek's effort will only be comprehensive if everyone joins in. Lets do it. Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " "Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:44:11 +0100 " From: Nic Raine Subject: 412 lights "Now that we've all had some fun at the expense of Douglas' 412, let's get " "constructive, in all senses of the word. They must be the same as another " "contemporary vehicle, these things cost a fortune to tool-up. Lets all rack " our brains and get out those copies of classic car magazines. Or maybe go round the classic car show at the NEC in November with a tape measure. Has anyone asked Brian Morelli? Has Brian May got any? "Change of subject. I wanted a smaller, thicker steering wheel for my 603 and " 'phoned Moto-lita who make the current Blenheim wheel. They couldn't tell me what boss I would need so I went down there (Thruxton) and had an enjoyable "couple of hours with them. The steering column is a GM one, but I gather " "Bristol just use whatever's available, currently MGB! I chose a wood-rim " with polished aluminium thin-slot spokes. I had purchased a Bristol badge for the hub and they machined an aluminium one to accept it. I am delighted with the appearance and it makes the car more pleasurable to drive by weighting up the steering a little and dialling out the slight centre vagueness. Naturally I asked how many wheels they make for Bristol each year - six! "Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:13:26 +0100 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Fw: Spares ----- Original Message -----20 From: Alan Blackwood20 "Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 5:16 PM " Subject: Spares With reference to Geoffery Hawkins comments. "1. Through all of this, has anybody had the curtsey to discuss any of " their 20 " ideas with Dave Crownshaw, the spares co-ordinator?. " 2. I am aware that he knows of many sources for spares. has anybody asked 20 him to help them?. David and I are members of the Chiltern Section but unfortunately we "only see him a few times a year at our meetings, but yes we have talked " "of spares many times. We understand the pressures he is under, doubtless " "his heart is in the job, however, he is only human, with very limited " spare time. "David's work takes him away from home many times a year, this together " "with rebuilding several cars, and his house, also finding time for his " young son does not leave him much time for other things. At present he is out of the country covering the Olympics. "However,It would be of great help if he could publish a list of helpful " information which he has acquired regarding the supply of parts. This would go to make a comprehensive list with all the other inputs from "which all members could draw, thus keeping our cars on the road. " My regards Alan Blackwood turbosim@'turbosim.force9.co.uk http-equiv3DContent-Type> "
    ----- Original Message -----20 " "
    From: Alan Blackwood
    " "
    Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 5:16 PM
    "
    Subject: Spares

    With reference to Geoffery Hawkins20 comments.
    "
    1.  Through all of this, has " anybody had the20 curtsey to discuss any of their       20
         ideas with Dave20 "Crownshaw, the spares co-ordinator?.
    "
    2.  I am aware that he knows of many20 sources for spares. has anybody asked   
         him to help20 them?.
    David and I are members of the Chiltern Section but20 "unfortunately we only see him a few times a year at our meetings, but " yes we20 have talked of spares many times. We understand the pressures he is "under,20 " "doubtless his heart is in the job, however, he is only human, with very " limited20 spare time.
    David's work takes him away from home many times a20 "year, this together with rebuilding several cars, and his house, also " finding20 time for his young son does not leave him much time for other things. At present20 he is out of the country covering the Olympics.
    "
    However,It would be of great help if he " could20 publish a list of helpful information which he has acquired regarding the supply20 of parts. This would go to make a comprehensive list with all the other "from which all members could draw, thus keeping our cars on the20 " road.
    My regards
    Alan Blackwood
    size3D2>turbosim@'turbosim.force9.co.uk
     
    "Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:10:27 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: 405 drophead for restoration References: <003301c03979$cbb5f6e0$0c08000a@clown> "Fellow Bristol devotees, " "I'm wondering if there's interest in having a ""Classified Ads"" feature " "on a web site for a Bristol-related items. Also, my webmaster guru " tells me I can also host a full archive of email from the Forum. Both "would be on my FrazerNash-USA.com URL, with full transfer rights to the " Bristol web site anytime they would like to pick it up. Pros & cons? Bob > i recently re-imported the ex-claude lewenz 1955 405 drophead from new "> zealand to the uk, originally intending to restore it. a small photo " "> appeared in the owners club bulletin #117, page 15. (this was the edition " > featuring the blenheim 3 launch and fighter project). "> due to a change in plan, i am open to offers for this rare & beautiful " "> model. according to ""bristol cars & engines"" this is one of 43 made. " "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:12:56 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Speedo drive Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " brian.cuddigan wrote to the Forum on Thursday, October 26, 2000 5:49 PM " Subject: Speedo drive > David thanks for your swift response.What a lot of questions! Sory but is neccessary to arrive at a true picture. > 1.The system was provided Ben Yates who produced the necessary casting with > Overdrive Repair Services providing the J unit and they I believe supplied > the angle speedo drive 2. O/D ratio 22% "Derek O.K. its Sir David!!!.. The overdrive supplied by O.R.S.to you, has " a 25% ratio the 'J' type is not available in 22%. The speedometer worm and drive gear is the wrong ratio for the Bristol Speedohead which is a magnetic "and demands quite a lot of torque to drive the cable etc,. " The right angle drive was not supplied by O.R..S . but Beauford's I believe. This isw the Electro Diesel Lucas uunit you refer too. ". > 3.I don't know, " "This my item ii) I believe, the Lucas corrrection gearbox mentioned in your " first e mail. and used to correct the speedo error. 4.Yes two new cables used without correcting the > problem. And Speedo rebuilt & recalibrated by Vintage Restorations of > Tunbridge Wells and is good & steady when its working. > 5.No. > 6.Yes I understand some Frazer Nashes have had similar problems. > Regards Brian "Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:33:55 +0000 " From: Alan Thomson Subject: Smelly Bristol Organization: Mechanical Engineering Priority: normal I find that my 406 stinks of petrol (under the bonnet only) if it has been left to sit for a while after a run. I note that the carbs begin to look a bit wet and you can see the odd drip of petrol coming from them. I have flattened the float chamber covers and replaced "all the gaskets, I also replaced the pump jet diaphragms as the old " ones were perished. This has improved things but has not elliminated the problem completely. Do the float chamber needle valves give "trouble in their old age. I am about to order up a set, but was " interested to see what others had to say. Alan "Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:00:53 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: 405 drophead for restoration "I agree, and vote for a spares compendium?mountain? heap?aggregation? How do " we do it??Stefan "Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:41:08 -0400 (EDT) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Smelly Bristol "Same experience despite all the new parts you mention,I found 2 causes; " " 1. ""New "" diaphragm rubbers , maybe decades old, had re-perished in " a few months?due to something in modern fuel or just the rubber aging. (people get leaky too as they get older.) 2 The banjo bolted fuel connections to each carb eventually wear slightly conical and need retightening until one day the thread goes. Western "Services in Bristol, now just recently closed alas would put a thread insert " into the carb top casting ; cost aroound 20 pounds so it was simpler to do than one might think. Presumably a needle valve leak would trickle into the engine not out "of the carb. This could cause rather exciting fuel/oil dilution problems, and " for some reason when this has happened to me the engine has not exploded (see "correspondence in Bulletin last year.) The 406 tank , like the 400's, is of " "course high in the tail unlike the 401/3, and could allow petrol to syphon " "past a tired needle valve (or through an old fuel pump membrane) , especially " if the tank is left full. Turning the fuel tap off when out of use should stop this -if your tap works. Stefan "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:27:30 +0100 " From: brian.cuddigan@btclick.com Subject: speedo drive Importance: Normal 401 fitted with J overdrive is great with 85C engine.I don't know the back axle ratio. After driving c 80m the speedo stopped.There is a geared 90 unit bolted into o/d w. plastic gears pushed onto steel shaft!When hot the push fit slips. W.cooling the gear grips again but soon with wear don't work. The gear in the o/d was pinned & that outside tightened but again 80m-no speedo. New angle drive lasted no longer than the first(Lucas)Cable to speedo not tight.New one fitted.Has anyone with J o/d had similar trouble.Do they have a solution? "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:50:13 +0100 " From: chorltonw Subject: Stripping wood trim Does anyone know of a product that will strip the varnish from the veneered wood cabin trim of a 410? None of the products I've tried -- "Nitromors, Rustins, etc -- has any effect beyond a little superficial " wrinkling of the surface. Windsor "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:32:32 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Fwd: Fwd: Re smelly engine bay From: Derek Hughes Date: 21 Oct 2000 2155 Subject: Fw: Re smelly engine bay "From: ""Alan Blackwood"" " "Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 4:21 PM " Subject: Re smelly engine bay With reference to Alan Thomson's problems with a strong petrol smell in his engine bay. Assuming that there is no leak from any of "the joints, the main fault which develops over the years is a rise " in the petrol level in the carbs. "This is due to two reasons, one, the needle valve has recessed, " "two, the small brass plate on top of the float has flats worn on " "it, or possibly both of these. " The result being that this allows the petrol level to rise within the carburettors. The correct level for the petrol should be 2mm "below the main jet. There are several ways to achieve this, first " "replace the worn parts, (cost), second, put a fibre washer under " "the needle valve housing, bringing it nearer the float, and last by " bending the brass plate so that the petrol is shut off at a lower level. "I hope this is of some help, it may be better to try one of " the latter to see if it cures the problem before spending any money on new parts. My regards Alan Blackwood Chiltern Section Member ------ End forwarded message ------ Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:49:13 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard "Subject: Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " I must say it was very disappointing to open the long awaited BOC Newsletter and find that the Editor had used half of the front page to complain about the volume of BOC Forum email and express his personal opinions about what the Forum should or should not be used for. Obviously the BOC Newsletter Editor does not feel that the Forum itself is the most appropriate medium through which to address the "Forum subscribers, rather the message should be broadcast in " paper format and posted to over 800 hundred people of whom less than 10% are actually email Forum subscribers. "Anyway, sounds like we had all better 'pull our heads in', " particularly those who rant for England "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 22/10/2000 at 10:30:22 " pm "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:31:33 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Stripping wood trim I recently read an article about a company called London Carriage Craft who specialise in restoration of wood trim. The guy who runs it is ex MPW and Hoopers. Removing the old lacquer was one of his big secrets (which he wasn't about to reveal). I have done some of the trim in my 411 with the help of a friend who is a fine cabinet maker with 25 years experience. We tried numerous "chemical methods and even a heat gun, fortunately on the end of a " rear door trim which is not normally visible because we ended up damaging he wood by the time the lacquer bubbled. In the end we resorted to sandpaper and elbow grease. It MUST be done by hand to avoid going through the veneer which is very thin. And I can tell you it's hard work! Then you have the seemingly impossible task of achieving the same "finish as the original. I used marine varnish, about 10 coats " sanding with very fine paper between coats. I spent many tens of hours for a mediocre result. One of these days I will take all the wood out and give it to a specialist and it will be money well spent! "regards, " Kevin Howard "On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:50:13 +0100, chorltonw wrote: " >Does anyone know of a product that will strip the varnish from the 3D >veneered wood cabin trim of a 410? None of the products I've tried -- ">Nitromors, Rustins, etc -- has any effect beyond a little " >superficial 3D >wrinkling of the surface. >Windsor attachments >off ] "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 22/10/2000 at 11:14:02 " pm "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:34:23 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton "Subject: Re: Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " References: <200010221146.WAA19005@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> "In article <200010221146.WAA19005@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: "> Anyway, sounds like we had all better 'pull our heads in', " > particularly those who rant for England Au contraire Kevin Its direct result has been to increase the number of subscribers :-) and provided the comment doesn't peel the varnish off my desk #-( I'll continue to allow free speech short of Blasphemy and ban the use of attachments. ;-)) For methods of peeling varnish see other comment... o;-7 Bob Charlton "cars, Aircraft, Associated Clubs, or of Owner or Members interest. " Remember its your Forum - you choose the subject matter. It takes but a moment to delete data without reading it. "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:11:19 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Stripping wood trim References: <000e01c03c15$dc8d4740$40073c3e@user1> "In article <000e01c03c15$dc8d4740$40073c3e@user1>, " chorltonw wrote: > Does anyone know of a product that will strip the varnish from the > veneered wood cabin trim of a 410? Believe it or not a piece of clean dry plain glass used with suitable protective wrapping or gloves will act as a fine scraper... 4mm plain preferred. Its a time-taking process which will leave the timber smooth and ready for its new finish. Do NOT use off cuts with irregular edges they should be ideally straight or very gently curved clean cuts - according to the contour of the wood to be cleaned. Use at about 30/45 degree tilt and draw the 'glass scraper' gently towards you over the surface of the lacquer much as you would with a Spokeshave - assuming you know what that is... and how it works... (of course you do if you've ever seen spokes for timber wheels being made). The lacquer scraping will of course progressively blunt the glass and you'll need a fresh piece to continue the process. Use a soft dry brush to clear removed lacquer debris from the workpiece. If you don't press down too hard the finish left will be smooth and unscored and with only a rub of the finest sandpaper ready to be Stained or Lacquered once more to your taste. Use outdoor products only as Polyurethane formats will gradually degrade and craze in Sunlight... You have been warned. Marine products will provide excellent cover. Coats... as many as you like with a light rubdown between to key the next coat. If you wish use fine natural polish on the cured lacquer to finish the work. "Don't be in a hurry, don't heat the work, and keep the timber at an " even temperature free of dampness. "> None of the products I've tried -- Nitromors, Rustins, etc -- has " > any effect beyond a little superficial wrinkling of the surface. These products will work neat - but may take many applications and still leave vestiges of their chemical in the wood - unless it is "carefully washed off and allowed to dry before applying finishes, " they in turn will blister/crinkle/craze the finish. Hope this helps Bob Charlton "cars, Aircraft, Associated Clubs, or of Owner or Members interest. " Remember its your Forum - you choose the subject matter. It takes but a moment to delete data without reading it. "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:08:37 +0100 (BST) " "From: ""David J. Watson"" " Subject: New subscriber Good evening Bristoliers "Dave Watson, old BOC member HAA 546 Brown 400 signing in and about to lurk " for while. "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:14:40 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: speedo drive Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hi Brian. " On Sunday, October 22, 2000 Brian Cuddigan wrote:- " Subject: speedo drive > 401 fitted with J overdrive is great with 85C engine.I don't know the back > axle ratio. "For information, this will probably be either 3.9 or 4.2 and can be easily " checked by turning both back wheels simultaneously 10 complete turns and at "the same time, count the number of revolutons turned by the differential " propshaft flange from a known datum. Divide one by the other and you have "the ratio which is quite easy, but getting the test results requires three " "people unless you have long arms,!!.:-) This will not solve your problem " > After driving c 80m the speedo stopped.There is a geared 90 unit bolted into > o/d w. plastic gears pushed onto steel shaft!When hot the push fit slips. > W.cooling the gear grips again but soon with wear don't work. > The gear in the o/d was pinned & that outside tightened but again 80m-no > speedo. > New angle drive lasted no longer than the first(Lucas)Cable to speedo not > tight.New one fitted.Has anyone with J o/d had similar trouble.Do they have > a solution? There is a solution to every problem!!!...Brian I have supplied 18 Overdrive Kits using the Laycock de Noranville 'J' Type for the Bristol 2.0/2.2 litre engines and no speedo drive failures have been reported with my design. It is not clear if your problem relates to the failure of the overdrive speedo drive pinion gear or an auxilliary speedo correction worm and gearwheel fitted to the overdrive to corrrect a mis-match of the O/D speedo "worm/drive and the speedometer ratio, obtainable from Lucas Electro " Diesel. But there are other manufacturers. In my opion there is a simple problem with your installation in so far as the pinion in question is overloaded which is causing premature failure. In order to recommend a possible solution can you please advise the following ; " i) is the O/D installation designed by Ben Yates?.( short shaft, " "approx 4"" " wide adaptor casting and modifies gearbox and cross member) ii) what is O/D ratio and No of teeth on speedo worm and drive pinion?. iii) is the Lucas right angle box you mention a correction gearbox?. iv) was a complete new speedo cable fitted right up to the speedo head?. v) are there any sharp bends in the speedo cable? vi) do you know of other installations experiencing the same problem?. Items iv) or v) if worn or kinked could cause overloading and the problems you have experienced to date. Another indicator of a poor speedo cable is that the needle tends to flick at low speed. "If you get back to me with the above I am sure your problem can be solved, " somehow. Regards Derek "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:25:15 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Stripping wood trim Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services "Windsor, you wrote ""chorltonw"" " "Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 11:50 AM " Subject: Stripping wood trim > Does anyone know of a product that will strip the varnish from the > veneered wood cabin trim of a 410? None of the products I've tried -- "> Nitromors, Rustins, etc -- has any effect beyond a little superficial " > wrinkling of the surface. Try a wood scraper ( bought from from woodwork tool shops)or a piece of broken glass and scrape wood using long light stokes until all varnish (shellac) is removed. It works on anything ;-) even that well known polyurethane. Derek. "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:49:27 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Smelly Bristol Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""Alan Thomson"" wrote " " Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 5:33 PM " Subject: Smelly Bristol . Do the float chamber needle valves give "> trouble in their old age. I am about to order up a set, but was " > interested to see what others had to say I would suspect float level needle valve is worn and/or fibre washer Pt No 2261 is missing or wrong thickness fitted. Derek. P.S Do you have a local stockist for spares?. "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:10:11 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes "Subject: Re Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""Kevin Howard"" wrote on Sunday, October 22, 2000 " "Subject: Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " < I must say it was very disappointing to open the long awaited BOC < Newsletter and find that the Editor had used half of the front page < to complain about the volume of BOC Forum email and express his < personal opinions about what the Forum should or should not be used < for Agreed. (One word this time) :-) "Received my copy of the Newsletter, Post Dated 17th October 2000, received " 18 th inst and the only event advertised took place on the 16th October 2000. Par for the course.!!... Speak for yourself Bigpond :-) Derek To post to Forum use the Email address Forum@boc.net "Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:58:26 -0400 " From: stephen.sparkes@adiglobal.com (Stephen Sparkes) Subject: Re: 405 drophead for restoration clearly i would be a supporter :-) steve "p.s. i have already had 2 gentle nibbles for the 405, so can vouch for the " usefulness of the concept. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Schmitt "Date: Friday, October 20, 2000 6:24 AM " Subject: Re: 405 drophead for restoration ">Fellow Bristol devotees, " ">I'm wondering if there's interest in having a ""Classified Ads"" feature " ">on a web site for a Bristol-related items. Also, my webmaster guru " >tells me I can also host a full archive of email from the Forum. Both ">would be on my FrazerNash-USA.com URL, with full transfer rights to the " >Bristol web site anytime they would like to pick it up. >Pros & cons? >Bob >> >> i recently re-imported the ex-claude lewenz 1955 405 drophead from new ">> zealand to the uk, originally intending to restore it. a small photo " ">> appeared in the owners club bulletin #117, page 15. (this was the edition " >> featuring the blenheim 3 launch and fighter project). >> ">> due to a change in plan, i am open to offers for this rare & beautiful " ">> model. according to ""bristol cars & engines"" this is one of 43 made. " "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:41:04 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Stripping wood trim A couple of other points; Once the original lacquer has been removed the bare veneer will be very pale in colour and much of the natural grain and burr effect will not be visible. If you want to see what it will look like when you apply lacquer or varnish just wipe the surface with a damp cloth. Before every coat of new varnish or whatever it is advisable to " wipe the surface with a 'tacky cloth', this will remove any dust " particles which can spoil the finish. A 'tacky cloth' should be available from any good hardware outlet. If you apply clear varnish to the veneer it will end up being lighter in colour than the trim you started with (because it has been sanded) although this will gradually darken again with exposure to sunlight. All of wood trim I have seen in 410's and 411's has never had any stain applied and came from the factory with clear lacquer. If you decide to use a stain to achieve a darker finish just remember that staining is irreversible! Personally I think a clear lacquer or varnish is best if you want to see the full character of the veneer. Kevin Howard "On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:50:13 +0100, chorltonw A0wrote: " >Does anyone know of a product that will strip the varnish from the 3D >veneered wood cabin trim of a 410? None of the products I've tried -- 3D ">Nitromors, Rustins, etc -- has any effect beyond a little " superficial 3D >wrinkling of the surface. >Windsor attachments off ] "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 10/23/2000 at 9:14:52 " AM Resource Informatics Pty Ltd "BH +61 (0)3 9593 6698, Fax +61 (0)3 9593 8376, AH +61 (0)418 587 " 158 "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:46:05 +0100 (BST) " From: andrew mitchell Subject: Re: Stripping wood trim FILETIME[4CF78E50:01C03CC5] "Windsor, " Two good methods I have found are 1)cover panel in paint stripper and then put a polythene sheet or bag over it to keep moisture in and leave over night or2)cut a piece of glass with a straigh edge hold at 45 degrees and draw backwards like this / -> Andrew. ">From: ""chorltonw"" " >Reply-To: Forum@boc.net >To: >Subject: Stripping wood trim ">Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:50:13 +0100 " >Does anyone know of a product that will strip the varnish from the >veneered wood cabin trim of a 410? None of the products I've tried -- ">Nitromors, Rustins, etc -- has any effect beyond a little superficial " >wrinkling of the surface. >Windsor "Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. " "Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at " http://profiles.msn.com. "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:46:51 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson "Subject: RE: Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " "Hey, let's pick this one up and run with it then.... " Perhaps even more disappointing is that although perhaps 10% of BOC are in "BOCForum, the number of consistently active participants is under 20. " BTW I thought Mr Berry's editorial remarks were very gentlemanly (and have already told him so)! :) Douglas W. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Howard [mailto:khoward@bigpond.net.au] Sent: 22 October 2000 13:49 "Subject: Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " I must say it was very disappointing to open the long awaited BOC Newsletter and find that the Editor had used half of the front page to complain about the volume of BOC Forum email and express his personal opinions about what the Forum should or should not be used for. Obviously the BOC Newsletter Editor does not feel that the Forum itself is the most appropriate medium through which to address the "Forum subscribers, rather the message should be broadcast in paper " format and posted to over 800 hundred people of whom less than 10% are actually email Forum subscribers. "Anyway, sounds like we had all better 'pull our heads in', " particularly those who rant for England "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 22/10/2000 at 10:30:22 pm " "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:20:08 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: New subscriber References: <200010221146.WAA19005@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> "In article , " David J. Watson wrote: "> Dave Watson, old BOC member HAA 546 Brown 400 signing in and about " > to lurk for while. "Welcome David, lurk as much as you like. " "rgds., " "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:23:31 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Welcome and 412 questions First: Welcome (fellow) David to our small band of diverse forum lurkers and ranters. I am sure you will find it as interesting and diverting as I have. As a B3realB2 Bristol owner I do hope you will not be too disinterested in the rantings of us newfangled V8 owners ! I now have a V8 question for the history buffs: On the back page of Bulletin 119 just revived there is a photo captioned as: B3Zagato BristolsB2 . The owner of the 412 is not listed as a participant in the Spanish Tour although the name (Stevenson) is mentioned in the text. The 412 OLM748P has no roll bar as fitted to my 412S1. I have read somewhere that the first batch of 412s were bodied by Zagato. I this an example? I have to say it looks rather better than the "convertible saloon concept of later cars, although it must be a little les " versatile and somewhat claustrophobic in the rear. A recent forum question asked about the history of a cream lhd Beaufort. "Sorry I did not keep the message, so can not recall the sender. The " Beaufort returned to this pure convertible layout but seems not to have sol d . It was available to special order and seemed to be aimed at export markets. I believe only one was made (I hope this is wrong because I would like to find one myself in the future. This car was I believe used by Anthony Crook as his personal car for some time. There is a photo in the boc website gallery which may be this car. Regards The other David. "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 07:59:45 -0700 " From: Francis Capitanio Subject: RE: Parking for D&B Importance: Normal Hi Bob: When will you get the ETA for the D&B? I need to call Pendleton as soon as it's in. I'll call Marie Calendars today. Fran -----Original Message----- From: Bob Schmitt [mailto:bsbrbank@pacbell.net] "Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 5:28 AM " Subject: Parking for D&B Hi - I talked to Wayne at Century Parking about the bus & truck parking. It's $50 for each bus and $25 for the truck. We can pay by check or cash. "He seemed to think a while when I mentioned a ""charity"" function and was " perhaps considering a donation of the parking. It may be worth a call to see if he'll reconsider or take a ticket to the Ball for the parking "- I tried to get a discount, to no avail. He's at 310-556-3884. " I'll check out the exact location. Bob "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:22:48 +0100 " "From: ""David J. Watson"" " Subject: Re: Welcome and 412 questions Dave "Thanks for that welcome, and I personally do not differentiate between the " 2 litres' and the V8s' and have often looked longingly at the 411 series 2 as a desirable machine. Dave W "At 14:23 23/10/00 +0100, you wrote: " >First: Welcome (fellow) David to our small band of diverse forum lurkers >and ranters. I am sure you will find it as interesting and diverting as I >have. As a B3realB2 Bristol owner I do hope you will not be too >disinterested in the rantings of us newfangled V8 owners ! >Regards The other David. "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:24:30 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Re: Welcome and 412 questions To: 'The other David' (!!) I think the red 412 you refer to on the back cover of Bulletin no. 119 is the one that was modified by its owner in 1989 to make it a 'proper' convertible. With regard "to the Beaufort, mostly they were aimed at the export market. One was however " advertised for sale in the UK in 1990. "Regards, " Luke Hansen. "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:16:22 +0100 " From: brian.cuddigan@btclick.com Subject: 412 questions Importance: Normal David the answer to the Zagato question is no-the car was a typical 412 until Andrew Stevens picked up a hacksaw on day and improved its appearance! The Beaufort was probably a one off because Bristols could not meet the US safety regulations regarding seat belts I believe. "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:27:25 +0100 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: Newsletter. References: <004c01c03c75$8eb460c0$2d5d883e@freeserve.co.uk> "Dear FORUM, " "> ""Kevin Howard"" wrote on Sunday, October 22, 2000 " "> Subject: Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " > < I must say it was very disappointing to open the long awaited BOC > < Newsletter and find that the Editor had used half of the front page > < to complain about the volume of BOC Forum email and express his > < personal opinions about what the Forum should or should not be used > < for > Agreed. (One word this time) :-) "> Received my copy of the Newsletter, Post Dated 17th October 2000, " received > 18 th inst and the only event advertised took place on the 16th October > 2000. Par for the course.!!... "Better still I received mine the next day 19th and felt ,what is the point " in having an historical news letter.? Tirades should be between consenting adults in private. "The forum is open to those who wish to use it ,!! " Frying pans and fires spring to mind !! "Why bore the whole of the club with biggoted views , like the telly you do " not have to switch it on but we all look forward to our newsletters or at least I used to !! "On a similer subject I live about 4 miles from Haughly Park , at the last " AGM I asked about an EastAnglian Section and was told there was no such "thing nor likley to be and yet low and behold, in the Bulletin photographs " "and all, I find the begginings of one on my door step , please may I come " and play !!.? Nick Challacombe. "Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:13:13 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Stripping wood trim Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <200010221229.XAA22760@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> Re Kevin Howard's and Bob Charlatans email on subject above. Latest information to be added on preparation and finishing woodwork is the use of 3M buffing pads and diamond grit rubbing down pads. These are used by body repair workshops in cutting back the paint in preparation for paint "spraying. They are excellent for on wood varnishing, shellac and two pack " clear lacquer finishes which gives a very fine smooth finish and when you are happy with the smoothness of the finish it can be buffed up to a glass like finish. These pads are very efficient and produce quick results to professional standards quickly. The pads have many other uses such as cleaning metal parts and removing rust. We have just finished rubbing down our open tread stairs which are mahogany finished in polyurethane varnish. This was cut back very quickly. This is the first time I have used them for this application. "Kevin, if you want a sample sending out please let me know and I shall " dispatch same. Derek. "Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:26:00 -0400 " From: stephen.sparkes@adiglobal.com (Stephen Sparkes) Subject: Re: Welcome and 412 questions : > A recent forum question asked about the history of a cream lhd Beaufort. "> Sorry I did not keep the message, so can not recall the sender. The " > Beaufort returned to this pure convertible layout but seems not to have sold. > It was available to special order and seemed to be aimed at export > markets. I believe only one was made (I hope this is wrong because I would > like to find one myself in the future. This car was I believe used by > Anthony Crook as his personal car for some time. There is a photo in the > boc website gallery which may be this car. : "In ""A Private Car"", (p170, note 235), LJKS in his inimitable manner refers " "to a single 'specimen' of the Beaufort being made ""before it became clear " "that there was no serious market for it."" " Think it had the Beaufighter/Brigand 5.9 litre Rotomaster-turbo'd V8 and "left hand drive. Pictures appear, hood up, on p255 of ""The Private Car"" with " "the registration ""57 SHW"" complete with Wolfrace alloys. I recall it being " "for sale in the bulletin (Feb '99) at Car Care works in Hemel Hempstead, " "with an asking price of ~50,000 gbp if I remember correctly. Certainly " enough to scare me off at the time but then that was back in the days predating the 405 drophead.. "regards, " steve. "Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:04:16 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: RE: Welcome and 412 questions "I too noticed the ""uncredited"" Beaufortesque OLM748P. This is " """registrationally interesting"" too - it carries a replacement mark from " "London North West LVLO, which was where Bristols registered most of " their "customers' cars with ""ordinary"" registrations (obviously some had " cherished numbers put onto their new cars instead). That OLM-P mark would have been issued in the late 1970's or early 1980's I believe. The registration marks of British registered V8s of this era and later which carry non-London NW regns are often replacement marks issued by other LVLOs (now VROs) when the "Bristol owner has decided to dispose of his car locally, rather than " trade it in at West Kensington High Street. TJT 66R in one of the other articles "must be one of these (JT3DBournemouth, TJT-R is a known series for " "replacement marks). Anyhow, a London North West re-reg could just " possibly "imply that the previous mark was one of MPH100 or 100MPH, i.e the " transfer "was for/by BCL themselves? In which case is OLM748P the ""special"" used " by TADC to which David refers? "The other option is of course that an ""ordinary"" owner traded in his " 412 for "another vehicle, maybe at Bristols, maybe at some other dealership that " "patronised London NW, had his cherished number transferred to his ""new"" " car and left the 412 to receive its age-related OLM-P registration with the recipient dealer (and thence to its next owner). 20 Those who aren't confused by now should be! 20 Douglas W. -----Original Message----- From: David Moody-Doyle [mailto:david.md@virgin.net] Sent: 23 October 2000 14:24 Subject: Welcome and 412 questions First: Welcome (fellow) David to our small band of diverse forum lurkers and ranters. I am sure you will find it as interesting and diverting as I have. As a B3realB2 Bristol owner I do hope you will not be too disinterested in the rantings of us newfangled V8 owners ! I now have a V8 question for the history buffs: On the back page of Bulletin 119 just revived there is a photo captioned as: B3Zagato BristolsB2 . The owner of the 412 is not listed as a participant in the Spanish Tour although the name (Stevenson) is mentioned in the text. The 412 OLM748P has no roll bar as fitted to my 412S1. I have read somewhere that the first batch of 412s were bodied by this an example? I have to say it looks rather better than the "convertible saloon concept of later cars, although it must be a little " less versatile and somewhat claustrophobic in the rear. A recent forum question asked about the history of a cream lhd Beaufort. "Sorry I did not keep the message, so can not recall the sender. The " Beaufort returned to this pure convertible layout but seems not to have sold . It was available to special order and seemed to be aimed at export markets. I believe only one was made (I hope this is wrong because I would like to find one myself in the future. This car was I believe used by Anthony Crook as his personal car for some time. There is a photo in the boc website gallery which may be this car. Regards The other David. 20 "Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:07:47 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: RE: Welcome and 412 questions "Whoosh, sudden flurry of Bocnet stuff just as I'd cleared my inbox.... " Wasnt the Beaufort a pale colour? Is OLM's red its original colour? D. -----Original Message----- From: stephen.sparkes@adiglobal.com Sent: 24 October 2000 03:26 Subject: Re: Welcome and 412 questions : > A recent forum question asked about the history of a cream lhd Beaufort. "> Sorry I did not keep the message, so can not recall the sender. The " > Beaufort returned to this pure convertible layout but seems not to have sold. > It was available to special order and seemed to be aimed at export > markets. I believe only one was made (I hope this is wrong because I would > like to find one myself in the future. This car was I believe used by > Anthony Crook as his personal car for some time. There is a photo in the > boc website gallery which may be this car. : "In ""A Private Car"", (p170, note 235), LJKS in his inimitable manner refers " "to a single 'specimen' of the Beaufort being made ""before it became clear " "that there was no serious market for it."" " Think it had the Beaufighter/Brigand 5.9 litre Rotomaster-turbo'd V8 and "left hand drive. Pictures appear, hood up, on p255 of ""The Private Car"" with " "the registration ""57 SHW"" complete with Wolfrace alloys. I recall it being " "for sale in the bulletin (Feb '99) at Car Care works in Hemel Hempstead, " "with an asking price of ~50,000 gbp if I remember correctly. Certainly " enough to scare me off at the time but then that was back in the days predating the 405 drophead.. "regards, " steve. "Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:46:28 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Roofless 412 "To all who answered my question regarding ""improved"" 412: Thank you for " your replies. I do not think I will be reaching for the hacksaw just yet! "I am sure however, that the new owner of the one and only Beaufort will have " befitted from the forum collectives knowledge regarding his cars history. I shall just have to reconcile myself to the convertible saloon experience until I become spontaneously rich and can afford the ideal Blenheim 3 plus 405 drophead combination. Regards David. M-D. "Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:55:44 -0400 (EDT) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: Re: 412 Beaufort "In further response to the 'Beaufort' question posed the other day, the " yellow Beaufort (reg. No: 57 SHW previously 100MPH) was the one used by "Antony Crook as his personal vehicle for some time, I believe. The reason " that there were never very many Beaufort's made for the UK was due to the problem of obtaining type approval for the model because of the seat belt "anchorage's, etc. The balance of Beaufort production was for export, where " the type approval problems were not an issue. Having said all of that "production numbers were very small anyway (possibly around 5, I think). " "Regards, " Luke Hansen "Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:25:03 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Re: 412 Beaufort Regarding the Beaufort and production for export - I am not aware of any Beaufort existing in the US - are there any owners out there in other countries who are aware of any surviving export Beauforts? This also brings me to the 412 USA - were there only one of these cars ever made? The only one being in the possession of the North American secretary. It seems odd that Bristol would attempt an export revival and only made one of each. "Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:50:20 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 412 Beaufort References: <68.8749add.2726c4b0@aol.com> "In article <3.0.5.32.20001024122503.009fba80@fs1.mp1>, " Shane de Burca wrote: > This also brings me to the 412 USA - were there only one of these > cars ever made? I am _certain_ a number of these cars _were made_ however there is the story which bears some credence that they did not pass USA standards in respect of combustion quality and of excessive hydro-carbon emissions... which considering they were fitted with Chrysler engines is a bit of a surprise... However this is validated to some extent by the fact that one car now owned by the BOC NA Registrar was exported direct to to a long time customer in Canada... along with complete details of how to de-modify the USA inspired exhaust system restrictionsA0and a complete set of "the necessary pipes, brackets etc., illustrates the fact that " attempts had been made to meet USA Laws but were resulting in a quite serious loss of power... "The 412 USA had large rectangular Flank fitted Repeater Lamps, to " both front and rear wings(fenders) which are to be seen on cars exported to Europe and sold in the UK where these fittings were not then currently required. Which suggests that the small surplus was redirected to be sold in Europe where LHD was also the standard. These cars have various modifications to Roof and Roll Bars not seen in the only known 412 USA. It seems quite possible that other examples reached Canada or the USA via Canada but we have yet to trace any duplication of Peter's currently unique example. I followed the first and thought _only_ Bristol built Beaufort to the Birmingham Motor show. I'm sure it was then White with Red Leather and a Black Roof. Some 3/4 years later it appears to have been resprayed a Lemon Yellow and the Leather trim changed possibly to Black. Its my understanding that UK type approval was not then given because the diagonal seat belt anchorage was fitted into the seat. Thus effectively precluding sales at that time in the UK.. I believe Mr Anthony Crook made the point once at a BOC Dinner prior to the Concours a few years after - that this same system was later to be employed in the Bentley convertible which _did_ then gain type approval. Its my assuption that this change allowed the sale of the Prototype Beaufort. Despite rumours of cars being dispatched to the Mid East none have surfaced. I believe only one Beaufort was ever made and it is now re-painted BRG.. with a light coloured Mohair folding Roof fabric. Another 412 was later modified after the fashion of the 412 USA but as a Manually Operated Convertible. This has been well documented previously - it is painted Red. The body of the Beaufort is quite unlike the body of the 412 as I have previously described in some detail in the last edition of the Chassis List Booklet. The detail kindly provided to me by Anthony Crook. In a thumbnail sketch the Windscreen is deeper and more raked. The Doors are longer and the bodyline is carried higher from the screen to the 'B' post and thence to the rear of the car. There is little Boot space because of the folding frame and motors carrying the Electric Roof assembly. There are many minor details which have also previously been stated but these and hidden reinforcement to the body Frame are the more important items affecting the design. "Hope this helps, it is certainly an interesting subject. " Bob Charlton "cars, Aircraft, Associated Clubs, or of Owner or Members interest. " Remember its your Forum - you choose the subject matter. It takes but a moment to delete data without reading it. "Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:15:26 +0100 " From: James Lucy Subject: East Anglian section References: <004c01c03c75$8eb460c0$2d5d883e@freeserve.co.uk> "Yes, I saw the mention of a nascent East Anglian section too. My Beaufighter " "and I live in Ipswich, and would be happy to participate. " James Lucy ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Nicholas Challacombe"" " "Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 6:27 PM " Subject: Re: Newsletter. "> Dear FORUM, " "> > ""Kevin Howard"" wrote on Sunday, October 22, 2000 " "> > Subject: Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " > > < I must say it was very disappointing to open the long awaited BOC > > < Newsletter and find that the Editor had used half of the front page > > < to complain about the volume of BOC Forum email and express his > > < personal opinions about what the Forum should or should not be used > > < for > > Agreed. (One word this time) :-) "> > Received my copy of the Newsletter, Post Dated 17th October 2000, " > received > > 18 th inst and the only event advertised took place on the 16th October > > 2000. Par for the course.!!... "> Better still I received mine the next day 19th and felt ,what is the point " > in having an historical news letter.? > Tirades should be between consenting adults in private. "> The forum is open to those who wish to use it ,!! " > Frying pans and fires spring to mind !! "> Why bore the whole of the club with biggoted views , like the telly you do " > not have to switch it on but we all look forward to our newsletters or at > least I used to !! "> On a similer subject I live about 4 miles from Haughly Park , at the last " > AGM I asked about an EastAnglian Section and was told there was no such "> thing nor likley to be and yet low and behold, in the Bulletin photographs " "> and all, I find the begginings of one on my door step , please may I come " > and play !!.? > Nick Challacombe. "Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:48:20 +0100 " From: Copeswood Subject: wheels "I have a 411 S1, it has narrow wheels. Does anyone have a later wider " set. Andrew Lawson 20 -- [ Please do not send mail with attachments to Forum - use plain/text only ] "Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:20:43 +0100 (BST) " From: Andrew Stevens Subject: 405 SPARES FILETIME[243E9980:01C03E97] Barn find(sort of). Bare 405 chassis in apparently sound condition plus 405 body sections(not doors) and seats. Located in workshop premises in Boscombe near Bournemouth. Free to BOC member who can collect. Contact Peter Clayton 01202 399 625 (Daytime). "Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:50:40 -0700 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Re: 412 Beaufort References: <3.0.5.32.20001024122503.009fba80@fs1.mp1> "Thanks Bob, that seems to be as much as anyone knows on the topic. " "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:16:54 +0000 " From: Alan Thomson Subject: Petrol smells Organization: Mechanical Engineering Priority: normal Many thanks for all the feedback on my enquiry on leaky carbs on my "406. You have confirmed what I knew all along, so I am off to spend " a few quid on float needle valves. "Another problem connected with petrol on a my 406, which others may " have encountered. When I went to start up the car after its long lay up (17 years!)I could not get any fuel to the pump. Investigation showed that the brass pipe that goes into the tank had begun to break "up (apparently old brass has a habit of doing this), and the pump was " left drawing air. If you find you need lots of petrol in your tank before the pump will work this is most likely the problem. I noticed an email regarding the editor's comments on the Forum in "the Bulletin. Knocking the editor is the easy bit, writing the thing " is the really hard bit. Give him every encouragement and lots of copy or we may end up with no bulletin at all. I have just completed three years (hard labour) as the editor of a newsletter for horticultural club and received a slagging off for my efforts. You can bet your bottom dollar that I won't be volunteering for that one again! Happt Bristolling Alan "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:27 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: wheels for a 411 S1 Cc: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com Andrew Lawson asks about wheels for a 411 S1. "As far as I am aware, you also need different hubs to fit later-type " wheels to an S1. I am sure Bristol Cars (or others) could put you right on "this, as they have just done this conversion on a car I am selling. " Andrew Blow "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:42:12 +0100 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: 412 - OLM748P/100MPH blunder "Enthusiasts, Owners, Registrars, Editors, Historians! " I've made a VERY silly mistake. The registration series OLM-P is perfectly normal - it was OLW-P that was the last London NW registration series of "June/July 1976, later completed with replacement marks, then OLX-P was used, " then a very small number of OLY-P (anyone know of one? They are VERY rare). "OLM 748P has a ""sister"" Bristol OLM750P according to club records. BCL " presumably had 749 and possibly also 751 - did they not use them before 1.8.76? The OLM-P series was commenced in 5/76 by London NW. It is commonly the case that registration series allocated in the last few months "before the ""new"" year letter are not fully taken up - the ""spares"" are put " to good use later provided the LVLOs (VROs) know that they are spare! "(complex aside, complex story....) " "To put OLM748P and OLM750P in context, other known P-reg Bristol batches are " "in 3's and 4's in LLH-P(8/75), MLC-P(11/75), MLF-P(11/75) and NOY-P(4/76) - " no more than 4 per batch it would seem. The dates in parentheses are the dates of commencement of the relevant registration series by London NW LVLO allocation of the series to dealers usually only took a few days at London NW which was and still is one of Britain's most voluminous issuer of registration marks. The actual registration date of a specific mark can be somewhat later than it's allocation date - I'm not suggesting 8 new Bristols MLC705-8P and MLF746-9P were registered in 11/75 but rather over a period from 11/75 to 4/76 and possibly beyond. In GLF-N and GLW-N of 1974 the "known batches cover 5 numbers, likewise in YOY-S of 3/78. Curiously VRK-S " of 8/77 covers 12 numbers which seems an incredibly large batch for BCL - is "VRK757S really VRK767S (765,766 and 768 are known to the club)? " "Anyway, apologies once again for my heinous error re OLM748P which I " re-emphasise is a perfectly ordinary registration mark and is likely (99.9%+) to be the only mark the car has ever carried from new.... unless the owner knows different? In other words ignore my previous drivel about "that particlular ""Beaufort-412"" possibly being a former 100MPH or MPH100. " Engineers'/Tailors' maxim: check at least twice before cutting! "Abjectly yrs, " Douglas W. PS is anyone actually INTERESTED in any of this? ie tell me I'm boring you and I'll rabbit on even more! :)) "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:45:50 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 412 Beaufort References: <68.8749add.2726c4b0@aol.com> "On 24 Oct, Postmaster@boc.net wrote: " > Despite rumours of cars being dispatched to the Mid East none have > surfaced. I believe only one Beaufort was ever made and it is now > re-painted BRG.. with a light coloured Mohair folding Roof fabric. FYI I was told this morning the owner has decided not to paint it BRG so instead has had minor blemishes retouched and the car remains the Lemon Yellow/Creamy colour it was repainted in the eighties? See how info keeps changing all the time !:-( Its downright dangerous putting pen to paper... Ho-hum.. ;-) Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:05:12 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Herdman Subject: East Anglian Group Dr R S Thorpe Gostelyns Shotesham Road Stoke Holy Cross Norwich NR14 8LW Is holding an inaugural meeting at: "The Four Horseshoes, Thornham Magna (7 miles from Scole) " On Sunday 12 November at mid-day. He will also be arranging a meeting in the Spring. Please do turn up or feel free to contact him. Geoffrey Herdman This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The contents are privileged. Any unauthorised "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:03:37 +0100 " "From: ""John Kearle."" " Subject: Avon Safety Wheels "Dear Forum, " Does anyone have experience of the Avon Safety Wheel which I would like to fit to my 411 Series V. I understand that they are prone to faults in the casting which can result in the wheel becoming porous. Any comments would be welcome. I note from the Newsletter and Bulletin that Bristol Cars Ltd were not represented at this years concours and that their full page advertisements are missing from the Bulletin. Does the club still enjoy good relations with the Company or has some of the published criticism of spare part prices had an adverse effect. "With regard to LPG and V8 Bristols, I have heard that Bristol Cars might be " reintroducing this facility but using a bought - in system rather than their own design. "Regards, " JK "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:02:42 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: 411 wheels "Dear Andrew, " I have a set of 4 Avon wheels as fitted to late model 411 and 412. They are 15 by 6 and can take tyres up to 215/15. They came of my 412 when I fitted 8 inch rims from the Blenheim 3. You are welcome to have these f.o.c. if you can collect them. They are in reasonable condition but have no centre knave plates or studs and the saftey bands are missing from 2. They can be used without. Regards David. Birmingham. Could not get an email through to you directly for some reason. ( Sorry Bob) "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:13:59 +0100 " From: michael brennan Subject: new engine or rebuild? "Sad news, last week my 1983 Brigand without any warning went pop at " 75mph and left a blue smoke screen that a Panzer Tank would be proud of... The car is (was) in excellent condition and I intend to get it back on the road in the next few months. I need it to be reliable. Should I go for a rebuild? Or new engine? Should I keep the turbo or retire it?(the turbo is only 12 months old) "If I retire the turbo, should I go for injection or carb? " Anything else worth attending to once the engine is removed? The AC "needs replacing, any advice on alternatives? " Is it worth installing a overdrive gear box at the same time? (I had "planned for a 4 speed box in a few years, but probably can't afford it now) " "Its done 105000 miles. In the last 18 months I've replaced brakes, " "turbo, exhaust, springs, shockers, watts linkage pane, front and rear " "windscreens, wiper motor, fitted new seat belts front and rear, sorted " "the rust, new roof lining new boot floor and lining. " Mike Brennan "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:49:46 +0100 " From: brian.cuddigan@btclick.com Subject: Speedo drive Importance: Normal " 1.The system was provided Ben Yates who produced the necessary casting with " "Overdrive Repair Services providing the J unit and they I believe supplied " "the angle speedo drive 2. O/D ratio 22% " " 3.I don't know " " 4.Yes two new cables used without correcting the " "problem. And Speedo rebuilt & recalibrated by Vintage Restorations of " "Tunbridge Wells and is good & steady when its working. " " 5.No. " " 6.Yes I understand some Frazer Nashes have had similar problems. " " Regards Brian " "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:37:42 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Herdman Subject: RE: Avon Safety Wheels "I ran my 603 for 170,000 miles on Avon safety wheels without any porosity " problems although I have heard it said that there was a problem with some wheels. Apart from the safety aspect it is my opinion that thay are exceptionally good looking and are worth it on those grounds alone. You can always insert inner tubes! Geoffrey > -----Original Message----- "> From: John Kearle. [SMTP:john.kearle@jwmorris.co.uk] " "> Sent: 26 October 2000 14:04 " "> To: 'Forum@boc.net' " "> Subject: Avon Safety Wheels " "> Dear Forum, " > Does anyone have experience of the Avon Safety Wheel which I would like to > fit to my 411 Series V. I understand that they are prone to faults in the > casting which can result in the wheel becoming porous. Any comments would > be > welcome. > I note from the Newsletter and Bulletin that Bristol Cars Ltd were not > represented at this years concours and that their full page advertisements > are missing from the Bulletin. Does the club still enjoy good relations > with > the Company or has some of the published criticism of spare part prices > had > an adverse effect. "> With regard to LPG and V8 Bristols, I have heard that Bristol Cars might " > be > reintroducing this facility but using a bought - in system rather than > their own design. "> Regards, " > JK This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The contents are privileged. Any unauthorised "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:37:58 +0100 " "From: ""Charles W. Nelson"" " Subject: Restoring 409 O.K. I've signed on but this novice wonders what happens next. Is "there some sort of notice board I can access, or do I just send in hope " of a reply? I'll assume the latter. Major ('ground upward') restoration of my 409 will probably pose many "questions. Immediately, can anyone point me toward front and rear " "screens, and a ZF power steering pump? Sure, Bristol Cars Ltd can " provide all but I would like to hang on to both arms and legs for a while. Any other general comment or advice on my project (stuff needing special "attention or that should be avoided, etc.) would be much appreciated. " "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:27:37 -0400 " From: Peter McGough Subject: Re: Postmaster; Bob Schmitt's website Organization: Microsoft Corporation References: "Hi Bob, " Can you provide Bob Schmitt's website address? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Postmaster"" " "Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 5:18 AM " Subject: Postmaster > Your request 'SIGNON Forum' has been processed. etc. "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:19:31 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 411 wheels References: <20001026155727.CDTV289.mta8-svc.virgin.net@[62.252.208.101]> In article David Moody-Doyle wrote: > Could not get an email through to you directly for some reason. ( > Sorry Bob) Nothin to do wi me guvnor honest... I have mails bouncing back off the walls - a couple off addresses people recently Signed ON from. Suspect they made some mistake in typing... Perhaps a reason... Two others have had problems the worst being due to a Server without a reverse DNS script installed - which is _their fault_ not the "Users, nor a feature peculiar to Forum. The system may not be " 'bulletin' ;)) proof but it is fairly reliable. touches wood! "Hope this helps, " Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:41:30 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: 412 Beaufort References: <4a13785c93Postmaster@boc.net> ReSent-From: Bob Charlton ReSent-To: Distribution List "In article <200010262320.KAA23689@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: > I did however get the impression that there was more than one made. I look forward to the day it re appears then. ;-) Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:22:33 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: 412 Beaufort I was talking to a Bristol Cars employee in the last few days about something relating to my 411 and thought I would try my luck and ask how many Beauforts were made. The person I was talking to asked " excitedly if I had ""come across one"". I then made the mistake of " mentioning that a member of the BOC was interested in buying one and that there had been some discussion on the topic among some members. My source immediately seemed reluctant to continue this line of "discussion and said he ""did not rate our chances of finding one"". " I did however get the impression that there was more than one made. Kevin Howard "On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:45:50 +0000 (GMT), Bob Charlton wrote: " ">On 24 Oct, Postmaster@boc.net wrote: " >> Despite rumours of cars being dispatched to the Mid East none have >> surfaced. I believe only one Beaufort was ever made and it is now >> re-painted BRG.. with a light coloured Mohair folding Roof fabric. >FYI >I was told this morning the owner has decided not to paint it BRG so >instead has had minor blemishes retouched and the car remains the >Lemon Yellow/Creamy colour it was repainted in the eighties? >See how info keeps changing all the time !:-( >Its downright dangerous putting pen to paper... >Ho-hum.. ;-) >Bob Charlton "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 27/10/2000 at 10:14:05 " am "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:46:19 +1000 " From: Marcel Seroussi Subject: 405 drophead I have just complited the restauration of my 405 drophead coupe and I am missing the doors and windows rubbers. Can any body help? Marcel Seroussi "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:39 +0100 (BST) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: 412 America Cc: BullEd@boc.net "My personal opinion is that maybe as many as 20 412 Americas were made, " "but that, for whatever reason, probably price and lack of knowledge of the " "marque in the USA, they did not sell. " What happened to them? "Again, my opinion is that they were turned back to rhd, turbo-charged, and " sold as beaufighters! "I have seen maybe 8 beaufighters, and they seem to be of two distinct " "types. Those with a fixed roof above the driver, and with a flat " "instrument panel (ie, no binnacle). Michael Barton's car is an example of " this type. "Then there are those that are structurally the same as 412S2s, ie " removable roof panel and double stainless roll-over-bar trims. These have an instrument binnacle. The crucial point is that all the beaufighters I have seen of this second type have the side repeater lights for indicators that are characteristic of the 412 America. The other type of beaufighter does not. Anyone else got any thoughts on this? A customer who used to own a beaufighter and who spends a lot of time in "the USA, told me that he once went to a British classic car do in " "California and saw two 412 Americas side-by-side, so perhaps as many as " three actually sold in the USA. Andrew Blow Phone: +44 1672 539689 Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:39:00 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: email problems "Dear Bob, " Not for a moment was I suggesting that my problem sending mail direct to Andrew was in any way a problem with the forum. Said sorry because I thought the message for Andrew was not forum material of interest to the great mass of forum folk... well ok maybe not great mass..select few! Regards: David. "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:39:23 +0100 " "From: ""John Kearle."" " Subject: RE: Avon Safety Wheels "Dear Mr. Herdman, " Many thanks for your observations. It is good to hear that the Avon safety wheel is a practical proposition as I use my Bristol on a daily basis. Now I "just have to find a ""good"" set. " "Regards, " JK > -----Original Message----- "> From: Geoffrey Herdman [SMTP:GHERDMAN@UNDERWOODCO.CO.UK] " "> Sent: 26 October 2000 19:38 " "> To: 'Forum@boc.net' " "> Subject: RE: Avon Safety Wheels " "> I ran my 603 for 170,000 miles on Avon safety wheels without any porosity " > problems although I have heard it said that there was a problem with some > wheels. Apart from the safety aspect it is my opinion that thay are > exceptionally good looking and are worth it on those grounds alone. You > can > always insert inner tubes! > Geoffrey > > -----Original Message----- "> > From: John Kearle. [SMTP:john.kearle@jwmorris.co.uk] " "> > Sent: 26 October 2000 14:04 " "> > To: 'Forum@boc.net' " "> > Subject: Avon Safety Wheels " "> > Dear Forum, " > > Does anyone have experience of the Avon Safety Wheel which I would like > to > > fit to my 411 Series V. I understand that they are prone to faults in > the > > casting which can result in the wheel becoming porous. Any comments > would > > be > > welcome. > > I note from the Newsletter and Bulletin that Bristol Cars Ltd were not > > represented at this years concours and that their full page > advertisements > > are missing from the Bulletin. Does the club still enjoy good relations > > with > > the Company or has some of the published criticism of spare part prices > > had > > an adverse effect. "> > With regard to LPG and V8 Bristols, I have heard that Bristol Cars might " > > be > > reintroducing this facility but using a bought - in system rather than > > their own design. "> > Regards, " > > JK > > To post to Forum use the Email address Forum@boc.net > > To leave send a blank mail with Subject SIGNOFF Forum > This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the > use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The contents "> are privileged. Any unauthorised access, disclosure, use or copying is " > strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this email > in error please notify the originator. "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:13:13 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: email problems References: <20001027093434.YWXK26306.mta4-svc.virgin.net@[62.252.204.21]> In article David Moody-Doyle wrote: "> Dear Bob, Not for a moment was I suggesting that my problem sending " > mail direct to Andrew was in any way a problem with the forum. > Said sorry because I thought the message for Andrew was not forum > material of interest to the great mass of forum folk... well ok > maybe not great mass..select few! > Regards: David. No probs David I've replied more fully by email. - Bob "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:14:19 +0100 " From: Copeswood Subject: Re: 411 wheels "Dear David, thank you for your generous offer, unfortunately I now been " informed by Brian Marelli at Chiswick that I do have to fit different hubs. Not number one priority at present. I have contacted you direct as I am not sure if I fully understand how to operate Forum...... Andrew lawson -----Original Message----- From: David Moody-Doyle Date: 27 October 2000 00:36 Subject: 411 wheels ">Dear Andrew, " > I have a set of 4 Avon wheels as fitted to late model 411 and >412. They are 15 by 6 and can take tyres up to 215/15. They came of my >412 when I fitted 8 inch rims from the Blenheim 3. >You are welcome to have these f.o.c. if you can collect them. >They are in reasonable condition but have no centre knave plates or studs >and the saftey bands are missing from 2. They can be used without. >Regards David. >0121-6015208. >Birmingham. >Could not get an email through to you directly for some reason. ( Sorry Bob) "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:26:30 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Forum Archive Location A number of new subscribers have asked if the Forum archive is accessible. Yes it is. :-) It is kindly hosted by member Bob Schmitt and the address if you wish to download and peruse at your leasure through your Winter/Summer is http://www.FrazerNash-USA.com/BOC.txt The reason its not on the BOC site is historically the mighty disc crashes incurred on my system circa Jan. this year. >:-( I'm very grateful to Bob for his forthought and efforts in maintaining this facility. Bob has constructed a new FrazerNash website which is accessible by the shortened version www.FraserNash-USA on most systems.... 'select click' and enjoy. Bob Charlton "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:40:27 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes "Subject: : Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction & food for thoght. " Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""Douglas Wilson"" you wrote on Monday, October 23, 2000 11:46 AM " "Subject: RE: Nothing to do with cars,delete without compunction " "> Hey, let's pick this one up and run with it then.... " > Perhaps even more disappointing is that although perhaps 10% of BOC are in "> BOCForum, the number of consistently active participants is under 20. " This means that approximately only 2% of the members are active with 8% LURKING....in the wings. I seem to think the membership is getting up to 900. Perhaps the Chairman could give the latest figures please.?and Bob can confirm the new total on the Forum since Adrian jollied some more along. So his comments DID some good after all. Well done..... > BTW I thought Mr Berry's editorial remarks were very gentlemanly (and have > already told him so)! Very good. We could do with a bit more meat in the Newsletter and leave the "editorials on the Forum ""On The Forum"" " "In my opinion I think, perhaps it is the Members fault and not the editor " to blame as Alan Thomson suggested in his e mail dated 26 /10 / 00 10.16 A.M """Petrol Smells"", of course it does!!....and he has a difficult job, I am not " "sure whether it's his job or the Newsletter, but he has just changed it " !!.:-) The editor can only print what he is given by the members and if he has nothing he is obliged/entitled to fill the blank spaces by writing his views "even if this is to slag off the ""Forum Members"", after all we are only " """human"" or is it ""humorous"" beings and free " "to express ones views, that is, if you are not afraid to......I don't mind , " "if you do, ...... Then hit DELLllll.... By the way, I don't think Kevin " Howard and others were KNOCKING the editor :-) merely expressing there "disappointment after waiting so long for some ""NEWS"" and then geting told " off. After all he is 12000 miles away and couldn't make it to the Concourse just like ATDC even thought he had paid his subscriptions this year and will soon have to pay them again. Do we get value for his money??? What do you think????? The only bit "of news and entertainment we have had is on the FORUM, and that cost us a " little/lot extra in £ and A$ according to the editor. It is a good thing we have you Bob otherwise we would all be extinct!!!!!! just like the spares are becoming. To help the situation if each of the Forum Members (80/90 ) wrote 10 lines each on a particular topic of there choice the editor would have approximately 1000 lines to print plus a few sketches or photos. This represents approximately 25 pages of A4 filled top too bottom or 4/5 pages per Newsletter. If this were the case poor Adrian would not be able to cope with the Newsletter and his job and could do with an assistant. Anymone stupid enough to volunteer???.. How about helping him out??...... " I will start the ball rolling by sending Adrian some ""Technical Tips"" not " """Financial"" on Bristol D.I.Y. For the latter I suggest you contact Andrew " "Steven's Comp,. Sec. or the Hon Tress Michael Barton. " It would be a good idea perhaps to include in the NEWSLETTER the information "recorded on The Forum about the following, : " i) removing varnish by Andrew Mitchell and others. ii) smelly petrol. " iii) etc.,. " " Note! members who have not read this, would, I sure, find it " interesting. In addition would it be possible to published a B.O.C.Events Calendar at the beginning of the year and issue this with the first Newsletter and update it on the Forum/Newsletter/Website as required????? Is this possible Adrian? We would then all know in advance of all the mysterious and good events some members attend. Food for thought. Derek. "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:42:00 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Avon Safety Wheels I recently bought a set of second hand Avon Safety Wheels from Bristol Cars Service fitted with 215 Avon Turbospeed tyres. I found that 3 out of 5 of the tyres lost pressure over only a few days. I have since taken the tyres off and have sent the wheels away to be refurbished so I do not know if the beads needed to be re-sealed or the air was escaping through metal porosity. "I am having my wheels etched, primed and painted on every surface " "other than the surfaces which originally had an alloy finish, " which I am having polished. This will help reduce any metal porosity effect. "One thing I can say for sure, the wider 20cm Avon tyres were a " great improvement over the 195cm Pirrellis which were fitted to the original steel wheels. The Avon wheels are also considerably lighter "than the steel wheels, from memory by about 5kgs per wheel. " BEWARE - Chromed mild steel wheels nuts and conical washers for fixing the Avon wheels are no longer available and the replacement nuts from BC are in stainless steel at 20 pounds per nut. If there are enough people interested I can get them manufactured in SS for about half that sum. Kevin Howard "On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:03:37 +0100, John Kearle. wrote: " ">Dear Forum, " >Does anyone have experience of the Avon Safety Wheel which I would >like to >fit to my 411 Series V. I understand that they are prone to faults >in the >casting which can result in the wheel becoming porous. Any comments >would be >welcome. >I note from the Newsletter and Bulletin that Bristol Cars Ltd were >not >represented at this years concours and that their full page >advertisements >are missing from the Bulletin. Does the club still enjoy good >relations with >the Company or has some of the published criticism of spare part >prices had >an adverse effect. ">With regard to LPG and V8 Bristols, I have heard that Bristol " Cars >might be >reintroducing this facility but using a bought - in system rather >than >their own design. ">Regards, " >JK "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 27/10/2000 at 11:28:14 " pm "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:51:50 +0200 " "From: ""Greene, Aubrey"" " Subject: SIGN ON Forum "Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:32:22 -0700 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Forum Archive Location References: <4a140569f2Postmaster@boc.net> Bob et al - "Please note that the archive is ""text only"" emails, with all the ugly " "parts showing! I think you could import into a email program. However, " the guys who runs my ISP is working on getting this to look like a """real"" archive, so please be patient. " Bob (not the one in the UK!) > A number of new subscribers have asked if the Forum archive is > accessible. > Yes it is. :-) > It is kindly hosted by member Bob Schmitt and the address if you wish > to download and peruse at your leasure through your Winter/Summer is > http://www.FrazerNash-USA.com/BOC.txt > The reason its not on the BOC site is historically the mighty disc > crashes incurred on my system circa Jan. this year. >:-( > I'm very grateful to Bob for his forthought and efforts in > maintaining this facility. > Bob has constructed a new FrazerNash website which is accessible by > the shortened version > www.FraserNash-USA > on most systems.... 'select click' and enjoy. > Bob Charlton "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:52:03 +1300 (NZDT) " From: Lane Smytheman Subject: Re: Smelly Bristol Alan I note the suggestions from others re petrol leaks in B32PBI carburetors. I have also had a similar problem with my 406. I suggest that you should also check the gasket on the petrol non return valve immediately under the float chamber and below the main petrol pump assembly. My carb body had slight corrosion under the non return valve gasket which is very hard to see unless you remove the carb. Even if you fit a new gasket/washer it may still leak ( as mine did ) unless the main body is perfectly flat. If this is the cause of the problem you may get the impression that the leak is from the main pump diaphragm or flange "faces, because it is above the valve. - Easy to make the wrong assumption. " Are you sure that the petrol smell is only from the engine bay ???? - apart from the obvious carb leaks. The overflow pipe from the petrol tank is rather large and you tend to get a high evaporation rate particularly after you use the car. Not sure why this happens! I reduced the smell in the garage considerably by putting a reducer plug in the bottom end of the overflow pipe held in place by a "circlip. Reduced from 1/2"" i/d to about 4mm. Have a look under the car " against the daylight when the car is in the garage and you will see what I mean. It looks like a vapour waterfall. Also consider putting a new rubber gasket on the petrol filler cover. These tend to harden over time and allow petrol fumes to escape. Make sure there is good spring pressure on this gasket. I think the original spring is a bit weak to ensure a good seal. Hope this helps Regards from NZ Lane Smytheman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "At 16:33 20/10/00 +0000, you wrote: " >I find that my 406 stinks of petrol (under the bonnet only) if it has >been left to sit for a while after a run. I note that the carbs >begin to look a bit wet and you can see the odd drip of petrol coming >from them. I have flattened the float chamber covers and replaced ">all the gaskets, I also replaced the pump jet diaphragms as the old " >ones were perished. This has improved things but has not elliminated >the problem completely. Do the float chamber needle valves give ">trouble in their old age. I am about to order up a set, but was " >interested to see what others had to say. >Alan "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:19:42 +0100 " From: Geoffrey Herdman Subject: Annual Dinner & Membership Numbers A quick plug for the annual dinner on !st December - Please come. It really is a crocking good evening! "We have hit an all time high, as I was telling Mr Crook yesterday afternoon. " 901 members including 15 honoraries. Out of interest 258 of those are listed as having an e-mail address. Geoffrey P.S. If you have mislaid ticket application forms an e-mail will suffice. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The contents are privileged. Any unauthorised "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 23:03:05 +1000 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Forum access "Bob (Charlton), " Does one have to be a BOC member to participate in the Forum or does membership to BOCA or BRONZ also qualify ? Is membership of any of the BOCs a pre requisite for Forum participation ? Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 28/10/2000 at 10:49:20 " pm "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:08:11 +0100 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Stripping wood trim Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hi Kevin "You wrote on October 27, 2000 7:41 AM " Subject: Re: Stripping wood trim "Derek, " >Thanks for the kind offer to send out samples of 3M cutting and >polishing pads. Rather than going to the expense of posting them to >Australia if you can tell me exactly what to ask for I will first see >if I can source them locally. I believe 3M products are readily >available here. Are there any 'tricks of the trade' in using them ? >I presume they are they used on an electric buffer ? I have replied on open Forum so that everyone has the benefit of the "specification, Hope you don't mind. " No they are not for use in a machine but held in the palm of your hand. The specification for the Pad is: i) 3 M Scotchbrite surface conditioning hand pads Extra Duty Ref No :- 7486 Dark Green. pack of 10 A$31. / £12 ii) as above general purpose Ref No 7447 Maroon pack of 10 A$20 / £8. " ii) as above but softback sanding sponge Ref No 03810 in Fine, " Medium and Course.(Diamond Grit) After using they can be washed out in soapy water to unclog and reuse when dry. Eventually you loose the diamonds!!.... Use paint sprayers TACKY WIPING CLOTH purchased from Auto Paint suppliers for removing dust and finally wipe off with degreasing solution and paper wipe to thoroughly clean before applying next coat. Two pack lacquer gives excellent finish when sprayed on after sanding wood/veneer and coating natural or staining to desired colour This can be "buffed up using burnishing cream Beware of silicone specs or water, very " difficult to get rid of once they in the finished surface. "Once you have done all the preparation work, very professional finish can be " achieved quickly and is very durable in sunlight. This assumes you have a "little spray gun, compressor or a good friend who can use one. " Good Polishing. Derek. "P.S If you cannot find them in Bigpond let me know, it will only cost " A$3/4 to send a couple. >Derek. "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 27/10/2000 at 4:31:59 pm " "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:11:19 +0100 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Avon wheels "Dear Chris, " I would be happy to pack and send the wheels to you. They are "reasonable and are not porous, they performed perfectly well on my 412. " I do not excpect payment for the wheels but would ask that you pay for carriage. I have not a clue what that would cost. Do you have a particular shipping agent or method in mind ? Please let me know your thoughts on this. Regards: David. "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 07:27:14 -0700 " From: Ron Sweet Organization: Attorneys Online Hello:20 Thank you for your interest in AskTheLawyers.com. Click here to view our recently relaunched site: http://www.askthelawyers.com 20 AskTheLawyers.com is a national interactive online service where individuals obtain an initial consultation (at no charge) via e-mail with an attorney in their area. Availability is exclusive to four select law firms per area of practice for each metro or State.20 Our web site is promoted through a network of national media and online "alliances, including several local legal content partnerships and promotions " "with television stations across the country such as CBS, Fox, and ABC. 20 " "These exclusive categories start at just $25/month and are offered on a ""first " "requested, first reserved basis."" For current pricing, visit " http://www.askthelawyers.com/pricing and click on one of the four sponsorship levels. 20 "To learn how you can participate in AskTheLawyers.com, call us at 800-221-8424 " or e-mail us for a current media kit. To view or subscribe to our monthly ATL "Newsletter, click here: http://www.askthelawyers.com/lawyerservices/index.htm " "If you are also still interested in a custom web site for your firm, visit our " showcase at: http://www.attorneysonlineinc.com/showcase.htm to view sites we have done for other law firms. 20 We look forward to hearing from you. "Sincerely, " Ronnie J. Sweet II Marketing Director E-mail: rons@askthelawyers.com Web: http://www.askthelawyers.com Web: http://www.attorneysonlineinc.com "P.S. If you would like to be removed from my address book, please e-mail " remove@askthelawyers.com P.P.S. Don't forget that We Need Your Articles! ATL has formed a legal content partnership with iSyndicate.com to syndicate your articles locally or nationally for your firm at no charge. 20 for "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:47:21 +0100 " From: Mr Clive Foster Subject: Beaufighter/412 Further to Andrew Blows comments on Beaufighter styles. There is at least one Beau running around with binnical style instrument "panel, fixed roof, no side repeater lamps and (I think) double stainless " roll-over bar trims. The car was white and living outside in a nearly unfindable village just south west of London when I almost bought it three or four years ago. Logic triumphed over infatuation aided by a certain suspicion that the car had done the rounds of the lads and might be hiding mega costly problems. "(A vendor asking A310,000 + who dosn't blink when you suggest that A3 5,000 " odd is nearer the mark because the interior and a few other things need to be redone certainly sets the alarm bells ringing) Current experience with the SAAB 9000 I bought then and the slow progress i n debodging the 603 (superficially far more attractive) I eventually settled for suggests I made a mistake. Does anyone know if that car has joined the club fold and whether it is/was OK or not?20 "Clive Foster, Harwell, Figg Lane, Crowborough, Sussex, TN 6 2PD " "Phone 01892 610931, E-mail clive_foster@talk21.com " "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:32:57 +0100 " "From: ""Charles W. Nelson"" " Subject: Restoring 409 "Ah, I seeeee! Questions don't get answered unless folk have an e-ddress " to contact. Sorry: thought mine was in the directory. So ....... Anyone out there with useful bits and tips? Immediate need (as "mentioned) is for front screen, rear screen and ZF power steering pump. " "Regards, Charles Nelson. E-mail: calchas@talk21.com " [ Repetitious Mime copy in html format excised - Please switch off attachments before mailing Forum ] "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:56:59 -0400 (EDT) " From: GmWoog@aol.com Subject: Leather care productsand Connolly leather I would like to do some cleaning and renovation on the interior and would like to know if anyone has any experience with Leatherique or Gliptone "products. Any recommendations would be welcome. Also, does anyone have a " contact for Connolly? Thanks. Greg Woog "Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 23:20:14 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Forum access References: <200010281201.XAA17460@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> "In article <200010281201.XAA17460@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au>, " Kevin Howard wrote: > Does one have to be a BOC member to participate in the Forum or > does membership to BOCA or BRONZ also qualify ? No one does not have to be a member of BOC... It is of course preferable that participants are members of at least one Bristol Club or are a Bristol owner or intending to be so. Otherwise they won't understand what we are talking about. Though there is no fence stopping anyone being a member of more than one recognized club either... - as the header on the website indicates - Bristol 2 Litre Engines were fitted in many other marques as ditto "were Chrysler engines, ( but probably not always exact in all cases " to the spec. used by Bristol ). > Is membership of any of the BOCs a pre requisite for Forum > participation ? Not really - since first I have no means of checking validity of "current memberships, therefore the only enforcement I make " initially... is that if a name is not given with the application... I am inclined to ask for a proper name to be provided with the email address before allowing access to the Distribution List. Incidently some of you wonder why there is no name other than the authors in the headers of the mail you receive. The reason is quite deliberate - it avoids all addresses being harvested by web machines and Spam merchants and later abused. explan. thus helping to keep _all our mail boxes_ clear of adverts "for money making schemes, or for pharmacy products designed to make " life more vigorous shall I say ;-)) If you still get them its probably the result of your web travels. Forum is thus free - but moderated. We don't want Spam merchants in here... just as 'the participants' determined that attachments were not to be desired. ( After all these can be sent direct if authors sign with a preferred email address ). "It is of course nice protocol to sign your submissions, you don't " "need to include an email address, it lets respondents know to whom " they are replying. Just as it is polite to edit the points to which you refer in "replies, rather than simply repeating the complete text with your " reply/comments. Unless of course it _IS_ required to make sense. _I apologise_ for the length of this response... but felt it gave me an excuse to explain some things to our _new readers_ since Forum has increased (...thanks to a bit of encouragement ;) now to over 100 subscribers. "rgds., Bob Charlton " "cars, Aircraft, Associated Clubs, or of Owner or Members interest. " Remember its your Forum - you choose the subject matter. It takes but a moment to delete data without reading it. "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:26:01 +1100 " From: Marcel Seroussi Subject: Fw: 405 Drop Heads Hi Geoffrey Thank you for your answer. My 405 DH details are as fallow. "Chassis 405/4533, Engine 100B3631, Colour British racing green. " I have purchased the car in 1990 from Mr. John May and I believe he bough t it from W.P. Hardine of Walton On Thames in 1985 and imported to Australi a the same year. I will need most of the windows and doors rubbers. The original were not very good and were damaged. Can you help or do you know any body that can? Regards Marcel Seroussi ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Geoffrey Herdman"" " "Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 10:49 PM " Subject: 405 Drop Heads > Marcel "> I too am in the final stages of restoring a 405 DH, so will be facing " > exactly the same problems. If you could let me know exactly which secti ons > you are missing. Unbelievably the Club has just had a batch of seals ma de > for 405 BC lights but they are not the same as for a 405 DH. > Could I also trouble you for the chassis no. and any known registration of > your car please. > With best wishes > Geoffrey Herdman > Chairman BOC > This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for th e use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The contents are "privileged. Any unauthorised access, disclosure, use or copying is stric " tly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator. "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:02:50 +0000 " From: Peter C Radcliffe Subject: Re: Beaufighter/412 References: "If it is the one I looked at it most definitely was not a mistake, I " made an offer of 2000 Peter Radcliffe "In message , Mr Clive Foster " writes >Further to Andrew Blows comments on Beaufighter styles. >There is at least one Beau running around with binnical style instrument ">panel, fixed roof, no side repeater lamps and (I think) double stainless " >roll-over bar trims. The car was white and living outside in a nearly >unfindable village just south west of London when I almost bought it three >or four years ago. >Logic triumphed over infatuation aided by a certain suspicion that the car >had done the rounds of the lads and might be hiding mega costly problems. ">(A vendor asking £10,000 + who dosn't blink when you suggest that £ 5,000 " >odd is nearer the mark because the interior and a few other things need to >be redone certainly sets the alarm bells ringing) >Current experience with the SAAB 9000 I bought then and the slow progress in >debodging the 603 (superficially far more attractive) I eventually settled >for suggests I made a mistake. >Does anyone know if that car has joined the club fold and whether it is/was >OK or not? ">Clive Foster, Harwell, Figg Lane, Crowborough, Sussex, TN 6 2PD " ">Phone 01892 610931, E-mail clive_foster@talk21.com " Peter and Jackie Radcliffe http://www.mmcars.co.uk/ Sign on the front page to receive our newsletter. "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:07:26 +1300 " From: Chris Browne Subject: Re: Avon wheels "on 29/10/2000 3:11 AM, David Moody-Doyle at david.md@virgin.net wrote: " "> Dear Chris, " > I would be happy to pack and send the wheels to you. They are "> reasonable and are not porous, they performed perfectly well on my 412. " > I do not excpect payment for the wheels but would ask that you pay for > carriage. I have not a clue what that would cost. Do you have a > particular shipping agent or method in mind ? > Please let me know your thoughts on this. > Regards: David. "Dear David, " "I would gratefully accept your kind offer and, of course, arrange and pay " for the shipping. I will email you again in a day or two after I have sorted out some freight arrangements. I will probably use one of the freight forwarders who specialise in combining the effects of returning New Zealanders in containers. Interpack plc is one that comes to mind. I will want to arrange for the wheels to be collected from you. Where in England do you live? Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@attglobal.net "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:53:28 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Leather care productsand Connolly leather I don't know Leatherique but have used Gliptone. Their cleaner is not bad but would not use their Conditioner product again - it has a false leather smell and it stinks! The leather in my 411 was in a terrible state and I restored it using "Woolies products (that's NOT Woolworths!, I think the full name " was Woolsthenholmes). Very successful. Over then next few days I will post a detail account of this - don't have time right now. Kevin Howard "On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:56:59 EDT, wrote: " >I would like to do some cleaning and renovation on the interior and >would >like to know if anyone has any experience with Leatherique or Gliptone ">products. Any recommendations would be welcome. Also, does " anyone >have a >contact for >Connolly? Thanks. Greg Woog "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 10/29/2000 " "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:00:26 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Speedo drive Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services OHhh Dear I have dropped a BoooooBoooo or Clanger!!. This infernal computer of mine sends out messages when I haven't finished them. My apologies. Here is the corrected version so DEL the previous one. ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Derek Hughes"" " "Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 5:12 PM " Subject: Fw: Speedo drive " Brian.Cuddigan wrote to the Forum on Thursday, October 26, 2000 5:49 PM " Subject: Speedo drive > David thanks for your swift response.What a lot of questions! Sorry but it is necessary to arrive at a true picture. > 1.The system was provided Ben Yates who produced the necessary casting with > Overdrive Repair Services providing the J unit and they I believe supplied > the angle speedo drive 2. O/D ratio 22% Derek O.K. its Sir David Hughes!!!.. is in much higher places. The "overdrive supplied by O.R.S.to you, has a 25% ratio, the 'J' type is not " available in 22%. The speedometer worm and drive gear is the wrong ratio for the Bristol Speedohead which is magnetic " and demands quite a lot of torque to drive the cable etc.,. " " The right angle drive was not supplied by O.R..S . but Beauford's, I " believe and this is the Electro Diesel Lucas unit you refer to in your e mail. " > 3.I don't know, " " This is my item ii) which I believe, is the Lucas correction gearbox " mentioned in your first e mail. and used to correct the speedo error. 4.Yes two new cables used without correcting the > problem. And Speedo rebuilt & recalibrated by Vintage Restorations of > Tunbridge Wells and is good & steady when its working. I am not quite sure why you needed two new speedo cables unless you changed the arrangement for some reason. Since you have had the speedo recalibrated it would appear that the Lucas correction box is now surplus to requirements and this must have been replaced for a 1;1 ratio speedo drive gearbox on the "overdrive. Unfortunately this is not the solution to your problem, as you " have subsequently found out So what is the problem and solution? i) the problem is due to the speedo drive gear ratio in the "overdrive is incorrect, the right angle box/ correction is not strong enough " to carry the load imposed by the speedo cable and head. The only installations of the Ben Yates type that I have been involved in was Andy Stevens and I recommended the Lucas correction gearbox. This is "mounted on the engine compartment bulkhead, well away from the overdrive " and I believe is working satisfactorily. Check it out with Andy. The reason "this works, I believe the load on heavy Bristol speedo cable s reduced. " The repairs carried out by Spencer Lane-Jones did not solve the "problem and I believe, in my opinion you have the following options: " ii) remove the right angle drive box and take your cable directly to the speedo.you should be able to get a direct connection onto the overdrive (Andy did this). If you still want a stronger right angled "gearbox try the unit fitted to the Triumph overdrives , I can lend you one " to try. Andy could not get this to fit in the space available. Another alternative is to contact Speedograph Richfield explaining your problem.(0115926 42365) ii) remove the overdrive and have the correct worm and drive "pinion fitted. Rather expensive, but perhaps a bit of good advice worth " bearing in mind if anyone is thinking about fitting an overdrive. > 5.No. Good. > 6.Yes I understand some Frazer Nashes have had similar problems. Then perhaps you can pass on this information to other. I will possibly contact Eric "Gates of the A.C Owners Club Oh I just remembered , the Lucas correction " unit has been fitted to an A.C with good resells up to now. This was only fitted two months ago by someone in Nottingham. Regards Derek "Someone referred to me as Mr Overdrive recently not true. Its Mr Hughes, " thank you Bob C sorry to double your workload and all the readers the additional cost. "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:02:51 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Leather care productsand Connolly leather Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hi Greg. "You wrote on Saturday, October 28, 2000 7:56 PM " Subject: Leather care products and Connolly leather > I would like to do some cleaning and renovation on the interior and would > like to know if anyone has any experience with Leatherique or Gliptone > products. Any recommendations would be welcome. "Interior on what a Mini?? Come on,,,,, tell us a bit more about your " car!!:-) I have used WOOLIES(01778 347347) leather renovation kit on my 400 upholstery and I was very impressed with the results. So I have not bothered to re upholster them yet. "Easy to apply the cleaning and feed creams, I then sprayed on the colouring " which resulted in a nice finish similar to the original and not that just painted look. ">Also, does anyone have a contact for Connolly? " "I presume you mean leather and not Roy ,,,isn't it or is it Rob???...What " colour are you looking for and how much. I have some dark blue Connolly hides??. Have you tried Connolly or have they gone out of business?? "Wollies keep leather and so do many places try Paul Beck(01092 650458), " "Boyriven(0181 9029581, expensive) and there is a good one in Scotland but I " can't put my finger on it at the moment. Also try some of the less expensive car re upholsters they sometimes have some bargain prices for small quantities. Hope this helps. Derek. """The Quiet Survivor"" " "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:11:07 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Fw: Speedo drive References: <001d01c041a9$3926daa0$3110883e@freeserve.co.uk> "In article <001d01c041a9$3926daa0$3110883e@freeserve.co.uk>, " Derek Hughes wrote: > Bob C Sorry to double your workload and all the readers the > additional cost. "Never mind we are none of us infallible, and one point I forgot to " tell Kevin last night is that this service is partly funded by the BOC for and on behalf of Bristol Owners everywhere. So I've said it now. ?A6-O "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:09:30 +0000 " From: Geoffrey Hawkins Subject: Re: Leather care productsand Connolly leather There is a very good article on restoring leather seats to be found on the ferrari web site. It even covers the product Leatherique. http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/leatherdye.html "I have used Connolly leather care, but was advised by a gentleman from " "Creech Coach Trimming to be very careful of the cleaner, as it was quite " "abrasive. He told me to try the Gliptone products, which I have done ever " "since. The initial smell may be over the top for some people, but when " "rubbed well in and left for a while, takes on the proper smell. He also told " me that Decosol could be used as a cleaner and that it was gentle. Two things to remember: 1) Don't over do the re-colouring as it will stop any leather treatments penetrating and you will end up in a worse position. "2) Do use a conditioner 4 times a year. That way, as the man from Creech " "said, you'll do it twice, which is about right. " Connolly can be found on telephone No. 01233 501100 Leatherique have a web site at: http://www.Leatherique.com/ Geoff Hawkins "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:29:33 +0000 " From: Andy Bernard Subject: Forum discussions in print Importance: Normal Following Andrew Blow's recent request for someone to produce Forum "information in the Bulletin, I prepared the introduction which was printed " "in the recent edition, planning to follow it with reproducing some of the " more interesting threads. "Should this be in the Newsletter (more frequent), stay in the Bulletin, or " "kept to electronic discussion (although, if the latter, then many members " would miss out on these gems)? "Any thoughts, Editors? or prospective consumers and contributors? " Regards Andy Bernard "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:41:41 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Restoring 409 The arms and legs may have to go. I know someone who tried to get some windscreens made for a Bristol a few years ago (not sure which model). He spoke to Pilkingtons re making small numbers of screens and they were " quite receptive, until they found out what car they were for. " The person I was talking to got the impression that Pilkingtons had agreed not to produce Bristol windscreens for anyone other than Bristol Cars Ltd. They are horribly expensive from BC. The power steering pump (fitted only to later 409's) was developed by ZF with considerable input from Bristol and was lauded as the best power steering in the world at that time. " There are people around who can repair ZF steering pumps, if you " have the original. If you don't have the original it might be worth finding out if a pump for a later Bristol model can be fitted as they were further improved. A call to Brian Marelli or Spencer Lane Jones would soon answer this question. Kevin Howard "On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:37:58 +0100, Charles W. Nelson wrote: " Postmaster ] >O.K. A0I've signed on but this novice wonders what happens next. ">there some sort of notice board I can access, or do I just send " in hope 3D >of a reply? A0I'll assume the latter. >Major ('ground upward') restoration of my 409 will probably pose many 3D ">questions. A0Immediately, can anyone point me toward front and " rear 3D ">screens, and a ZF power steering pump? A0Sure, Bristol Cars Ltd " can 3D >provide all but I would like to hang on to both arms and legs >while. >Any other general comment or advice on my project (stuff needing special 3D ">attention or that should be avoided, etc.) would be much " appreciated. "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 10/30/2000 at 7:26:09 " AM "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:39:45 +0000 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Avon Wheels (Chris Browne) "Dear Chris, " I can not seem to get an email through to you direct for some reason - is your email address: irie@attglobal.net ? "I am in Birmingham, address: 34 Hancox Street, Warley, West Midlands. B68 " 9LQ Regards: David "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:54:57 +0000 " From: Paul.Forster@atlet.co.uk Subject: 412 Aesthetics and Tail Lights Bcc: New to forum and have just spent Sunday afternoon ploughing through the archive - Wife thinks that senility has started to seriously affect my behaviour! Noticed the (relatively) recent discussion on 412 aesthetics and tail "lights. On the former, I can only say that when I had mine it certainly " attracted attention but I always felt that the frontal aspect was weak and "the rest...well, I was always trying to convince myself that it looked " "attractive, with carefully taken photos using a short tele. lens! However, " I can't imagine that the Zagato studio has any pictures of it on the walls. Tail lights - I remember someone telling me that they were from a Lancia Beta Coupe or Convertible (if it is different). Has this been suggested and dismissed or is there some truth in it? All rather irrelevant to me now as I did a straight swap for a 405 eight "years ago. Much more satisfying to own, but aesthetically flawed again??? " Paul Forster "Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:14:06 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Classified Ad System References: <20001029170959.NKQQ10340.mta5-svc.virgin.net@[62.253.68.10]> Hi to all - "My great, guru webmaster has helped me setup a ""Bristol-related"" " "classified ad system on my Frazer Nash web site. Right now, I have NO " "IDEA how well this will work, so if you have something to sell or are " "looking to buy anything Bristol-related, please give it a try! " http://www.frazernash-usa.com/classifieds/ "And comments, please! " "Thanks, " "Bob, in sometimes sunny Burbank, California " "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:55:35 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Forum discussions in print Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " Andy Bernard you wrote on Sunday, October 29, 2000 6:29 PM " Subject: Forum discussions in print " > Should this be in the Newsletter (more frequent), stay in the " "Bulletin, or " "> kept to electronic discussion (although, if the latter, then many members " > would miss out on these gems)? "> Any thoughts, Editors? or prospective consumers and contributors? " In my opion the Newsletter has received some very adverse comments and would benefit tremously with a injection of new material. On the other hand the Bulletin has good content and is very well presented. To bring the Newsletter up to an equivalent standard it's content needs improving dramatically. Therefore my vote is to include the Forum "information in this and give Members something to look forward to receiving, " "which is full of all sorts of interesting ""Snip Its "" and updates on " current affairs and events. Ever hopeful. Derek. > Regards > Andy Bernard "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:55:45 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Leather care productsand Connolly leather "On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:56:59 EDT, wrote: " >I ould like to do some cleaning and renovation on the interior and >would >like to know if anyone has any experience with Leatherique or Gliptone ">products. Any recommendations would be welcome. Also, does " anyone >have a contact for Connolly? Thanks. Greg Woog "Greg, " I&C Woolstenholmes Ltd have a web site at www.woolies-trim.co.uk on which they have a couple of detailed instructions and links to reviews of their leather care products at http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/Lkitinstructions.html The Woollies leather renovating products are made from the same chemicals used in the tanning process so there are no fake or overpowering smells when you have finished. Connolly also sell the same products which they use when re Connollising leather trim for customers in their factory. "As Derek did, I too used a spray gun to apply final coats of the " renovator which contains the colour matched pigment. A decent compressor will probably set you back about 300 pounds but it will be money well spent compared with replacing the leather. You should experiment on a alternative surface before you start spraying the leather (after cleaning). I use a touch up gun rather than a size spray gun. If you need further info in this regard let me know and I will email a photo to you. It is better to apply numerous fine "coats of renovator, letting each coat dry in between. " One mistake I made was to send Woollies a sample of leather from under the seat which had never seen the light of day (literally). This resulted in the renovator being too light in colour. I then sent a sample which was a better match to the exposed leather and the colour match was perfect. It didn't look perfect when first applied but it was once it had dried. Once you have read the stuff on Woollies web site let me know if you need any further information on this topic. "regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 10/30/2000 " "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:03:33 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: 383 and 360 engines available Today I visited a mechanic whom I use for work on some of my 'non Bri{tol' cars and he told me he had recently bought 2 second hand "Chrysler 383 cid engines complete with Thermoquad carbs, plus a " 360 cid engine. He has yet to pull the heads off and determine their condition but I will encourage him to do so if anyone is interested in buying one. They are all mated to 727 Torqueflite transmissions but he will separate them if required. Ke~in Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 10/30/2000 " "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:37:05 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: new engine or rebuild? "On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:13:59 +0100, michael brennan wrote: " ">Sad news, last week my 1983 Brigand without any warning went " pop at >75mph and left a blue smoke screen that a Panzer Tank would be proud >of... >The car is (was) in excellent condition and I intend to get it back >on >the road in the next few months. I need it to be reliable. Should I >go >for a rebuild? Or new engine? >Mike Brennan I don't think you should make this decision until you have pulled the engine apart and find out what condition it is in. "The beauty of rebuilding an engine, particularly one which was " mass "produced twenty years ago, is that one can often make " improvements. I am having my 411 engine rebuilt at present and I am able to make many improvements over a standard production engine. For example the original cast crank shaft has been replaced with forged steel "crank which has been been lightened, balanced, shot peened and " hardened. The 'blue printing' approach can be applied to other "engine components such as pistons and con rods, although I have " simply purchased certain improved engine components which are readily available from Mopar dealers in the USA. Even the block can be improved by getting rid of original casting artefacts. I have had the heads rebuilt so that the engine can be run on leaded or standard unleaded petrol or even LPG (if I ever decided to convert it ). I am also fuel injecting my engine using a 3D mapped engine management system and the cam shaft has been replaced with 'modern grind' cam profiles which will make the most out of the FI. We have also replaced the starter motor with a high efficiency unit which weighs approximately one third of the original unit and allows one to use a lighter battery. Petrol pumps are dual electric units from a Mercedes. The aim of all this is to make the engine operate much more efficiently and reliably. We aim to have fuel consumption of at least 18 mpg aorund town and 24 mpg on a long run. Beforehand fuel consumption was appalling. In addition to this I will have more torque from very low engine revs (not that the 411 needs it!). I am having this work done by someone who works on nothing but Chrysler V8 engines who has many contacts in the US. If you are interested I will ask him what can be done with a 360 cid engine. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 27/10/2000 at 10:27:28 " pm "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 30/10/2000 at 11:36:08 " pm "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:51:31 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Barrel nuts for 383 and 400 exhaust manifolds I am currently having manufactured the barrel nuts which fix the exhaust manifolds to the Chrysler 383 and 400 cid engines in 411 and 412 Bristols. These usually seize onto the studs when they " have not been removed for many years, and they are no longer " available from Chrysler. Please email me directly at khoward@bigpond.net.au if you are interested in purchasing some. Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 10/30/2000 at 11:51:29 " PM " oolden.argonet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 13qFES-0007W1-00; Mon, " "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:42:23 +0000 " From: jeremy.wilson@rs-components.com Subject: 411S2 tyres I have a Bristol 411 S2 which currently has 205/15 tyres. These tyres are rare and expensive. Which other sizes (and makes) do owners recommend? Thanks Jeremy Wilson "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:57:30 +0000 " "From: ""Charles W. Nelson"" " Subject: 'Forum' section in Bulletin. "I, for one and in very short time, am gleaning many useful snippets from " the Forum. Current comment on treating/maintaining leather is of special interest so I'm sure Bulletin readers would also wish to note them. "Regards, Charles Nelson. E-mail: calchas@talk21.com " "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:08:14 +0000 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: Forum discussions in print References: <000001c041d6$3583a2c0$fb14a8c0@mc033> "Hi, " I think that a summery of points raised that would benefit all ( by someone who understands Bristols completely) would be a very good idea for the newsletter. There have been some very useful ideas and solutions amongst the chaff. The news letter appears to be the ideal place. I did not see an answer as to why Bristol was not at this years concours or "indeed had stopped its advert in the bulliten, I do hope that we ( the club) " have not fallen out with them as I think we need their help more than they need ours. Kind regards Nick Challacombe > Following Andrew Blow's recent request for someone to produce Forum "> information in the Bulletin, I prepared the introduction which was printed " "> in the recent edition, planning to follow it with reproducing some of the " > more interesting threads. "> Should this be in the Newsletter (more frequent), stay in the Bulletin, or " "> kept to electronic discussion (although, if the latter, then many members " > would miss out on these gems)? "> Any thoughts, Editors? or prospective consumers and contributors? " > Regards > Andy Bernard "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:32:39 -0800 " From: Shane de Burca Subject: Re: Classified Ad System References: <20001029170959.NKQQ10340.mta5-svc.virgin.net@[62.253.68.10]> I think this is a good idea - I'd like to link your Bristol classifieds on the BoA site (bristolsofamerica.tripod.com) - I had something like this before but it was not automated and your system looks like it's self sustaining. I'm sure it could also be useful for owners of other Bristol "engined cars such as AC's. Of course, it's of equal use to those in the UK, " the US and around the world. Good luck Shane "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:39:26 -0600 " From: Karen Arutunoff Subject: [Fwd: SIGNON Forum] "Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:40:29 -0500 " From: Karen Arutunoff Subject: SIGNON Forum Please include my E-mail address in your mailings. Thank you Anatoly Arutunoff " Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:00:49 +1100 " "Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:58:13 +1100 " From: Sean Mc Sharry Subject: Re: Smelly Bristol References: <200010280252.PAA17411@fep3-orange.clear.net.nz> "Lane: As to the petrol cap rubber gasket, I fully agree. Mine is due " "for replacement now, having hardened a bit in eight years. It is most " "pronounced after filling, and taking a sharp right hand turn that forces " the petrol against the seal when the tank is full. "On the earlier topic of engine overheating in the 406, I can confirm the " "improvement suggested by Doug Spencer in the BOCA magazine ""Club " "Express"". This is the installation of an electric water pump at the " bottom of the radiator that pushes the water through to the mechanical "pump. It is controlled by a thermostat if desired, or in my car it can " also be activated manually. In my car it is linked electrically with the thermostat controlling a large cowled fan that is bolted onto the front "of the radiator, so that in operation they are both turned on " simultaneously either by the hand switch or the thermostat; or off manually provided the temperature is below the point that the thrmostat "would cut in. In other words, the manual switch does not override the " thermostat from kicking in. "We returned last night from a four day BOCA outing, in my case from " "Sydney, to the North coast of New South Wales, covering in all 1055 " "miles in four days, including a 12 hour run back yesterday. This was in " "a mixture of mild to warm weather at the outset, followed by cooler " "times. The roads varied from freeways with 70 mile/110km limits, to " mountain passes and steep ascents. These lightly travelled routes allowed for some spirited touring. At no time did the temperature exceed "90 degrees on the dial. At coming to rest after a fast spell, the pump " "and fan kick in for 10-30 seconds, and the temperature reading is held " "below 90. One can set it higher or lower with a simple knob. Previously, " "after a fast spell, either halted or caught in very slow traffic, " "despite the fan kicking in, the temperature would inexorably rise to 110 " "or what looks like 115. Then, the only way (if halted) was to rev the " "engine to 3000 and help the water round that way, but of course that " cannot be done while moving in slow traffic. I also report the installation of three pancake air filters to replace the 406 air filter set up. This has made the engine breathe more freely. It has been accompanied by going up 10 points for the main jets to avoid "the mixture becoming too lean. The best mileage on the run was 27.4 mpg, " followed by 26.7 on another leg. The previous best was in the 22 mpg "range. One has the impression of a livelier car, even if the engine bay " looks a bit unconventional now. "Maybe it would be of interest to write this up with a bit of detail, for " the BOC Bulletin? Best. Sean Lane Smytheman wrote: > Alan > I note the suggestions from others re petrol leaks in B32PBI carburetors. I > have also had a similar problem with my 406. > I suggest that you should also check the gasket on the petrol non return > valve immediately under the float chamber and below the main petrol pump > assembly. My carb body had slight corrosion under the non return valve > gasket which is very hard to see unless you remove the carb. > Even if you fit a new gasket/washer it may still leak ( as mine did ) unless > the main body is perfectly flat. If this is the cause of the problem you may > get the impression that the leak is from the main pump diaphragm or flange "> faces, because it is above the valve. - Easy to make the wrong assumption. " > Are you sure that the petrol smell is only from the engine bay ???? - apart > from the obvious carb leaks. > The overflow pipe from the petrol tank is rather large and you tend to get a > high evaporation rate particularly after you use the car. Not sure why this > happens! I reduced the smell in the garage considerably by putting a > reducer plug in the bottom end of the overflow pipe held in place by a "> circlip. Reduced from 1/2"" i/d to about 4mm. Have a look under the car " > against the daylight when the car is in the garage and you will see what I > mean. It looks like a vapour waterfall. > Also consider putting a new rubber gasket on the petrol filler cover. These > tend to harden over time and allow petrol fumes to escape. Make sure there > is good spring pressure on this gasket. I think the original spring is a bit > weak to ensure a good seal. > Hope this helps > Regards from NZ > Lane Smytheman > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "> At 16:33 20/10/00 +0000, you wrote: " > >I find that my 406 stinks of petrol (under the bonnet only) if it has > >been left to sit for a while after a run. I note that the carbs > >begin to look a bit wet and you can see the odd drip of petrol coming > >from them. I have flattened the float chamber covers and replaced "> >all the gaskets, I also replaced the pump jet diaphragms as the old " > >ones were perished. This has improved things but has not elliminated > >the problem completely. Do the float chamber needle valves give "> >trouble in their old age. I am about to order up a set, but was " > >interested to see what others had to say. > >Alan > >To post to Forum use the Email address Forum@boc.net > >To leave send a blank mail with Subject SIGNOFF Forum "Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:48:11 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Classified Ad System References: <20001029170959.NKQQ10340.mta5-svc.virgin.net@[62.253.68.10]> Shane - > I think this is a good idea - I'd like to link your Bristol classifieds on > the BoA site (bristolsofamerica.tripod.com) - I had something like this > before but it was not automated and your system looks like it's self > sustaining. I'm sure it could also be useful for owners of other Bristol "> engined cars such as AC's. Of course, it's of equal use to those in the UK, " > the US and around the world. "Please link away! Eventually I'll find out exactly what is ""powering"" " this system and I'm sure I'll have edit rights on the ads. I hope we all view this as an interim step until the official BOC web site can run a system like this. "Bob S, Burbank " "Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:27:41 +1300 " From: Chris Browne Subject: Re: new engine or rebuild? "on 31/10/2000 1:37 AM, Kevin Howard at khoward@bigpond.net.au wrote: " > I am having my 411 engine rebuilt at present and I am able to make > many improvements over a standard production engine. For example > the original cast crank shaft has been replaced with forged steel "> crank which has been been lightened, balanced, shot peened and " > hardened. The 'blue printing' approach can be applied to other "> engine components such as pistons and con rods, although I have " > simply purchased certain improved engine components which are readily > available from Mopar dealers in the USA. Even the block can be > improved by getting rid of original casting artefacts. > I have had the heads rebuilt so that the engine can be run on > leaded or standard unleaded petrol or even LPG (if I ever decided to > convert it ). I am also fuel injecting my engine using a 3D mapped > engine management system and the cam shaft has been replaced with > 'modern grind' cam profiles which will make the most out of the FI. > We have also replaced the starter motor with a high efficiency unit > which weighs approximately one third of the original unit and allows > one to use a lighter battery. Petrol pumps are dual electric units > from a Mercedes. > The aim of all this is to make the engine operate much more > efficiently and reliably. We aim to have fuel consumption of at least > 18 mpg aorund town and 24 mpg on a long run. Beforehand fuel > consumption was appalling. In addition to this I will have more > torque from very low engine revs (not that the 411 needs it!). "Kevin, " I for one would be interested in the details of this project and from a report on how it goes for you. "Incidentally, I seem to have received 2 copies of every message to the forum " in the last 24 hours. Am I the only one who has? Chris Browne "Auckland, New Zealand " irie@attglobal.net "Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:11:05 +0000 " From: Alan Thomson Subject: Smelly Bristol Organization: Mechanical Engineering Priority: normal Thanks for the latest ideas on controlling petrol smells on my 406. I have elliminated most of the suggested causes except the dripping carb problem. I usually stick a couple of small hoses onto the petrol tank breather and overflow drain and lead them outside the "garage at night, which helps reduce the smell, and have even tried " puting a poly bag over the petrol filler to see if that helped. Switching off the petrol tap and running the carbs dry makes the "biggest difference, so I am pretty sure the carbs are the culprit. I " am going to investigate the return valve gaskets as well as replacing "the needle valves, and will report back. " regards Alan " Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:03:51 +0000 (GMT) " "Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:00:48 +0000 " From: Richard Wells Subject: Leather restoration - Greg Woods "Re leather restoration, I have revived a number of seats etc and the " following may be of help. Firstly of course the surface must be clean. I find that a very small amount of detergent in warm water using a cloth and a soft scrubbing brush working small areas and frequently wiping the surface with clean water is best the idea is to remove the dirt not flood it into the surface. Allow to dry thoroughly. "Next is probably the most controversial bit, if the surface needs to be " "re-coloured I apply it now, I find using some of the waxy hide foods tends " to seal the surface and the dye just sits on the top and wipes of as you apply more. After the dye has dried and the colour looks right I use "Hydrophane, a liquid, obtainable from a saddlers shop. Applied with a 2"" " "paint brush it soaks in very fast, apply a coat, do not be tempted to flood " "areas that soak up fast, then leave to soak in for a number of days, repeat, " "after a few coats areas will start to stay wet, leave these alone and just " treat the areas that are still absorbing the oil. As soon as the oil does "not disappear immediately that is enough, we want to soften the leather not " "make it look like an oily rag! wipe off any excess and leave to dry, the " leather should now start to look and feel soft. Reapply any more colour required and then seal the surface following the manufacturers instructions (Woolies and Connoly supply the dyes and surface sealer) The main things to "remember are not to strain the leather whilst it is dry, it will crack or " tear very easily but most importantly leave as much time as possible between "applications, the longer the better, I took six months on my 412 rear seats " but the result was well worth the time.Hope this is of help. from Richard Wells. Chiltern Section. wellsrj@lineone.net "Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:06:09 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Classified Ad System for sale Complete roof panel from Bristol 406. Any modest offer will secure. Stefan Cembrowicz Bristol 0117 9731883 "Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:09:49 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Classified Ad System didnt work.... I got error message re address. Any ideas? Stefan "Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:05:15 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Duplication of some recent messages Explanation. Server froze during the initial download last night and then the connection timed out so I redialed and whilst it was downloading it reloaded the same mesaages because there was no regognized termination of them being downloaded previously. I did interject when I spotted the numbers duplicated but the length of each message was not always equal so I killed the shorter ones which had not been transmited on the assumption that these were the part messages. Unfortunately some had already been auto redispatched. C'est la vie du chien! Glad it doesn't happen too often >#-( Hope this helps... Bob Bob Charlton * Postmaster@boc.net * Website: http://www.boc.net/bristol/ "Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 10:37:38 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: new engine or rebuild? References: <200010301235.XAA21411@mr14.vic-remote.bigpond.net.au> From: Bob Charlton Date: 01 Nov 2000 1025 Subject: new engine or rebuild? Mailing-List: BOC Forum "In article , " Chris Browne wrote: "> Incidentally, I seem to have received 2 copies of every message to " > the forum in the last 24 hours. Am I the only one who has? See my reply under separate heading Chris.. However this morning we seem to be under attack. I'm seeking advice from Service provider. Bob P.S. - Have been adviced Server is under attack our service is provided by Argonet on space rented from PIPEX... it may be a PIPEX problem not an Argonet problem. We have had excellent service from Argonet. ------ End forwarded message ------ "Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 23:44:06 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: manufacture of parts I have had one member respond to my email re manufacture of barrel nuts for 383 and 400 (V8's) exhaust manifolds saying he " will take a set simple to support such an initiative, even " though he doesn't need any at present but is planning long ownership of his Bristol and may need some in the future. If the majority of Bristol owners adopted this approach it would make re-manufacture of relatively inexpensive parts quite feasible. "Let's face it, sourcing parts for old Bristols is only going to " become more difficult and more expensive as time goes by. This " includes re-manufacture, because the raw materials and labour " will become more expensive and there will be fewer small machine shops who are prepared to take on the job. Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, kevin.howard@informatics.com.au on 11/01/2000 at " Resource Informatics Pty Ltd www.informatics.com.au BH +61 (0)3 " 9593 6698, Fax +61 (0)3 9593 8376, AH +61 (0)418 587 158 " "Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:03:59 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: new engine or rebuild? mmmmm....sounds nice. Likely cost??? Stefan "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:57:34 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: new engine or rebuild? A lot! As I am having so many things done at the same time I haven't isolated the engine rebuild costs but it would have to be close " to twenty thousand Aussie dollars, that's about 7500 pounds. I " suspect the total bill with all of the other things we are doing will be twice that figure. "On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 14:03:59 EST, A0wrote: " >mmmmm....sounds nice. Likely cost??? Stefan "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 11/02/2000 at 2:40:43 " PM "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:08:21 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Petrol smells and- a smell of petrol isnt normal...stefan "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:20:41 +0000 " From: George Mowat-Brown Subject: forum SIGNON man-a158.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.44.158] claimed to be [194.247.44.223] "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 17:41 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) " From: puffer@cix.co.uk (Andrew Blow) Subject: Re: Classified Ad System Cc: Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com "Bob, " like the idea of your classified ads system for Bristol-related items. Do you see this covering cars as well as parts? "Are you permitting ""professional"" involvement? " "regards, " "Andrew Blow, UK " www.racecar.co.uk/andrewblow Bristol_sale@digitalmail.com "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 18:23:25 +0000 " From: Geoffrey Herdman Subject: BOC Trip 2001 It is now 99% certain that we will have a special category entry for Bristols at the Hershey Concours on Saturday October 6th 2001. We also have an invitation from Jean Gorjat to help him reduce the level of his wine cellar at Harrisburg (15 miles away). "We are therefore planning to send cars from Southampton to Halifax, Nova " "Scotia, where we will pick them up on Sunday 23 September. We will then " drive gently down thru' New England when the fall colours should be at their "best, staying in Harrisburg on the nights of Friday 5th and Saturday 6th " October. We have also been invited to a barbecue at Mike Christie's house in the Blue Ridge Mountains and I for one will be doing Williamsburg. The intention is to deliver the cars to Baltimore for the return shipment. As it is some 30 years since I lived in Canada any help or suggestions for suitable stopping off points would be most grtefully received. "The same details will be appearing in the forthcoming Newsletter, but in the " meantime if anyone would like to join in or has any suggestions for "routes/stop overs, I would be most grateful. " Geoffrey This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The contents are privileged. Any unauthorised "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:45:55 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Help! Anecdotal History of Bristol Cars needs data. Dear Fellow-Bristoleer; I've thought for a long time that we should start to collect people's personal reminiscences of owning/driving/fettling/selling these remarkable "cars, as a resource for each other/future generations, or just winter " fireside reading. Please could you indulge me by letting me have your best anecdotes to "put on file; hopefully aimed one day for some sort of publication, via " Bulletin or whatever. " Please omit any questions you find dull, and insert better ones if you " have any. " Scurrilous contributions welcome, and may be anonymous if you prefer. " "Please reply on this, or email your efforts in the shape of a file Word can " read directly to me at cembrowicz@cs.com thanks for all efforts gratefully received..... Bristol Cars Verbal History What is your name/occupation/location? When did you first see a Bristol car? " Have you had any connections with Filton/BAC/British Aerospace, or contacts " with its workforce? Who have you met at/from the factory? What was the first Bristol car you ever owned? (model/reg no /chassis no. if to hand) How much did it cost? How did you come to acquire it? Describe which Bristols you have owned? Name (a few) other vehicles you've also owned. How many miles do you think you have done in Bristols? Which of these journeys has the best memories for you? What is it in particular about Bristol cars that appeals to you? Which is your favourite model and why? What are their best - and worst - driving characteristics? Have you ever visited the factory? When? What were your impressions? What was going on when you were there? What work have you had done on your car(s) and by whom? Any pitfalls? What has been the biggest bill you've incurred on a Bristol? " Have you taken part in any competitions, events or rallies in your Bristol? " What is the most remarkable incident you can recall when in a Bristol car? What is the best design/engineering aspect of these cars? And the worst? Which model would you like to own next? Why? Any secret tips or hints (structural or functional) to pass on to a would-be owner? What would your ideal/dream specification be for the next model? How do you see the future of the marque? Dr. Stefan Cembrowicz "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 19:16:14 -0500 " From: Peter McGough Subject: Re: Leather restoration - Greg Woods Organization: Microsoft Corporation References: <000b01c04375$aa5b03e0$81248cd4@y8l1c5> Is it possible to use the original description of the colour as a method of obtaining the correct dye. I have been restoring the seats in my 412 using hydrophane oil. Yes it is a very long process. I am ready to dye but can I describe the colour as Elephant grey (which looks beige to me) and get a good colour match from woolies of connolly? Peter McGough ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Richard Wells"" " "Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 3:00 PM " Subject: Leather restoration - Greg Woods "> Re leather restoration, I have revived a number of seats etc and the " > following may be of help. Firstly of course the surface must be clean. I > find that a very small amount of detergent in warm water using a cloth and a > soft scrubbing brush working small areas and frequently wiping the surface > with clean water is best the idea is to remove the dirt not flood it into > the surface. Allow to dry thoroughly. "> Next is probably the most controversial bit, if the surface needs to be " "> re-coloured I apply it now, I find using some of the waxy hide foods tends " > to seal the surface and the dye just sits on the top and wipes of as you > apply more. After the dye has dried and the colour looks right I use "> Hydrophane, a liquid, obtainable from a saddlers shop. Applied with a 2"" " "> paint brush it soaks in very fast, apply a coat, do not be tempted to " flood "> areas that soak up fast, then leave to soak in for a number of days, " "repeat, " "> after a few coats areas will start to stay wet, leave these alone and just " > treat the areas that are still absorbing the oil. As soon as the oil does "> not disappear immediately that is enough, we want to soften the leather " not "> make it look like an oily rag! wipe off any excess and leave to dry, the " > leather should now start to look and feel soft. Reapply any more colour > required and then seal the surface following the manufacturers instructions > (Woolies and Connoly supply the dyes and surface sealer) The main things to "> remember are not to strain the leather whilst it is dry, it will crack or " > tear very easily but most importantly leave as much time as possible between "> applications, the longer the better, I took six months on my 412 rear " seats > but the result was well worth the time.Hope this is of help. > from Richard Wells. Chiltern Section. wellsrj@lineone.net "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 19:17:45 -0500 " From: Peter McGough Subject: 401 Oil Filter Organization: Microsoft Corporation Can anyone provide info on a replacement filter element (volks) for a 401? Peter McGough "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 23:11:40 -0500 " From: Peter McGough Subject: Fw: 412 America Organization: Microsoft Corporation "I noticed I sent this directly to Andrew and not Forum, but Forum might be " interested. ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Peter McGough"" " "Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 8:53 PM " Subject: Re: 412 America "> Andrew, " > I don't have any information on the total number of 412USA's made other than > anecdotal information similar to the 20 you mentioned. > However when I bought my 412 USA Claude Lewenze though that it was the > Detroit Motor show model he had discussed with Mr. Crook. I believe that I > have a photo of this car in the background of an overall of the show. Mr. > Crook apparently said he did not know what happened to this car. I also > believe that a 412USA was purchased (given?) to a Chrysler Executive. So > there may be more in the USA. However I believe that the two cars seen in > California might also have been the two Beaufighters imported from the mid > east that I have been having various phantom reports of for a few years. "> I am fortunate to have all the correspondence, sales invoice, certificates " > of US compliance etc on my car between Guy Drummond and the factory as well > and a very nice an interesting letter to Guy from Eric Storey telling Guy > how to remove the single exhaust pipe system and fit the dual that was "> shipped with the car, I have this system still in its original wrappings, " > right down to the individual nuts and hangers (and LH manifold). The factory "> were very thorough. Mr. Storey also noted ""There is something about the " "> driving qualities of the 412 which has always appealed to me greatly"" " Great > praise indeed! > Peter McGough > ----- Original Message ----- "> From: ""Andrew Blow"" " > To: > Cc: "> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 4:39 AM " > Subject: 412 America "> > My personal opinion is that maybe as many as 20 412 Americas were made, " "> > but that, for whatever reason, probably price and lack of knowledge of " the "> > marque in the USA, they did not sell. " > > What happened to them? "> > Again, my opinion is that they were turned back to rhd, turbo-charged, " and > > sold as beaufighters! "> > I have seen maybe 8 beaufighters, and they seem to be of two distinct " "> > types. Those with a fixed roof above the driver, and with a flat " "> > instrument panel (ie, no binnacle). Michael Barton's car is an example " of > > this type. "> > Then there are those that are structurally the same as 412S2s, ie " > > removable roof panel and double stainless roll-over-bar trims. These have > > an instrument binnacle. The crucial point is that all the beaufighters I > > have seen of this second type have the side repeater lights for indicators > > that are characteristic of the 412 America. The other type of beaufighter > > does not. > > Anyone else got any thoughts on this? > > A customer who used to own a beaufighter and who spends a lot of time in "> > the USA, told me that he once went to a British classic car do in " "> > California and saw two 412 Americas side-by-side, so perhaps as many as " > > three actually sold in the USA. > > Andrew Blow > > Phone: +44 1672 539689 > > Fax: +44 207 919 4479 "> > Winterbourne Monkton, Wiltshire, UK " > > To post to Forum use the Email address Forum@boc.net > > To leave send a blank mail with Subject SIGNOFF Forum harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA29472 for "Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 20:26:58 -0800 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: RE: 401 Oil Filter " Hello Peter, " I believe I still have a volks filter. I paid dearly for them. I will check and make sure I have it. I will also check to see the price though I seem to remember I paid $75.00 US for it. I know its steep but my supplier I can assure is not the boy scouts of america. Let me know. regards Shawn Thomas > [Original Message] > From: Peter McGough > To: Postmaster > Date: 11/2/00 4:24:49 PM > Subject: 401 Oil Filter > Can anyone provide info on a replacement filter element (volks) for a 401? > Peter McGough "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 09:35:12 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: 401 Oil Filter Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Peter McGough you wrote on " Friday, November 03, 2000 12:17 AM " Subject: 401 Oil Filter > Can anyone provide info on a replacement filter element (volks) for a 401? If you wish to retain the original canister and just replace the filter element there is a conversion unit available to fit inside and then use a "Mercedes oil filter element, this works on the same principle as the Bristol " i.e. oil down the centre of the filter. Alternatively there is an adaptor available to fit onto the oil filter body which enables a modern canister element to be used. I prefer the former since this looks more original but if you let me know your preference I can let you know where to obtain same. Derek. "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 10:09:48 +0000 " From: brian.cuddigan@btclick.com Subject: Turbospeeds Importance: Normal Hi all 6 cylinder Bristol owners.I have six 6x16 unused Avon Turbospeeds with their original sticky labels which must go. No inner tubes.Collect from London SE3.Price £20 the lot! contact brian.cuddigan@btclick.com P.S. Bt changed my phone number without telling me!! but I won't reveal the new one because I am trying to get them to change back.Very difficult it seems because they have returned my number to Cable. The struggle may also have affected the net. "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 07:30:17 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Leather restoration - Greg Woods send them a snipping from beneath the seat (will prob be different as unfaded.) Stefan "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 16:35:52 +0000 " From: jeremy.wilson@rs-components.com Subject: 411 S2 tyres Cc: Jeremy.Wilson@corbymsx.uk.ecomp.com I have recently bought a Bristol 411 S2 and at least two of the tyres need replacing. It has 205/15 tyres at the moment but these are rare. What sizes/makes do other owners normally buy? Thanks Jeremy Wilson "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 17:04:16 +0000 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: Turbospeeds References: "To Brian, " I have sent message direct but in case Bt have messed up net herewith "semblance of message, " "Yes please , " I will send cheque of get brother who lives in Mycenae road Blackheath to pop round and pick them up with the folding stuff . I can collect anytime but if you are in a hurry this seams the best way!! Please let me know ASAP if I have been successful. Kind regards Nick Challacombe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 10:09 AM " Subject: Turbospeeds > Hi all 6 cylinder Bristol owners.I have six 6x16 unused Avon Turbospeeds > with their original > sticky labels which must go. No inner tubes.Collect from London SE3.Price > £20 the lot! > contact brian.cuddigan@btclick.com P.S. Bt changed my phone number without > telling me!! but I won't reveal the new one because I am trying to get them > to change back.Very difficult it seems because they have returned my number > to Cable. The struggle may also have affected the > net. "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 13:26:12 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Turbospeeds "dear Brian, " Yes Ill bag the lot if I can!!! Stefan "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 19:31:00 +0000 " From: Alan Burnett Subject: Re: Leather restoration - Greg Woods Organization: Harbour Hotel References: <000b01c04375$aa5b03e0$81248cd4@y8l1c5> I know from experience that Woolies can match any colour sample. The specimen colour does not have to be submitted on a leather swatch but can come from any source. Regards Alan Burnett ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter McGough "Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 12:16 AM " Subject: Re: Leather restoration - Greg Woods > Is it possible to use the original description of the colour as a method of > obtaining the correct dye. I have been restoring the seats in my 412 using > hydrophane oil. Yes it is a very long process. I am ready to dye but can I > describe the colour as Elephant grey (which looks beige to me) and get a > good colour match from woolies of connolly? > Peter McGough > ----- Original Message ----- "> From: ""Richard Wells"" " "> To: ""FORUM"" " "> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 3:00 PM " > Subject: Leather restoration - Greg Woods "> > Re leather restoration, I have revived a number of seats etc and the " > > following may be of help. Firstly of course the surface must be clean. I > > find that a very small amount of detergent in warm water using a cloth and > a > > soft scrubbing brush working small areas and frequently wiping the surface > > with clean water is best the idea is to remove the dirt not flood it into > > the surface. Allow to dry thoroughly. "> > Next is probably the most controversial bit, if the surface needs to be " "> > re-coloured I apply it now, I find using some of the waxy hide foods " tends > > to seal the surface and the dye just sits on the top and wipes of as you > > apply more. After the dye has dried and the colour looks right I use "> > Hydrophane, a liquid, obtainable from a saddlers shop. Applied with a 2"" " "> > paint brush it soaks in very fast, apply a coat, do not be tempted to " > flood "> > areas that soak up fast, then leave to soak in for a number of days, " "> repeat, " "> > after a few coats areas will start to stay wet, leave these alone and " just > > treat the areas that are still absorbing the oil. As soon as the oil does "> > not disappear immediately that is enough, we want to soften the leather " > not "> > make it look like an oily rag! wipe off any excess and leave to dry, the " > > leather should now start to look and feel soft. Reapply any more colour > > required and then seal the surface following the manufacturers > instructions > > (Woolies and Connoly supply the dyes and surface sealer) The main things > to "> > remember are not to strain the leather whilst it is dry, it will crack " or > > tear very easily but most importantly leave as much time as possible > between "> > applications, the longer the better, I took six months on my 412 rear " > seats > > but the result was well worth the time.Hope this is of help. > > from Richard Wells. Chiltern Section. wellsrj@lineone.net > > To post to Forum use the Email address Forum@boc.net > > To leave send a blank mail with Subject SIGNOFF Forum "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 20:26:51 +0000 (GMT) " From: Geoff Leigh Subject: 'SIGNON Forum' "Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 17:42:17 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Turbospeeds References: Brian - >20 > Hi all 6 cylinder Bristol owners.I have six 6x16 unused Avon Turbos peeds > with their original > sticky labels which must go. No inner tubes.Collect from London SE3 .Price > A320 the lot! "Give the ""classifieds"" a try, but I think these will go quickly. " "Would love to have these at double the price for my Frazer Nash, stil " l "under restoration! But I'm a bit distant, even as the crow flies... " "Bob S., Burbank " "Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 07:07:27 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Turbospeeds "ignore all othre request please Brian, and ring stefan on 0117 9731883 " "Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 16:01:52 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Turbospeeds References: "In article <3A036979.6FE9@pacbell.net>, " Bob Schmitt wrote: "> Would love to have these at double the price for my Frazer Nash, " > still under restoration! Wish they'd been 5.50 x 16 Cross Plys ;..( Does the Nash normally run on Radials then Bob? The other Bob. Bob C.. Cripes this is confusing!:-) "rgds., " "Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:55:30 -0800 " From: Bob Schmitt Subject: Re: Turbospeeds & Frazer Nash References: Bob - "Well, my 'Nash doesn't normally run at all! The restoration status is " at: http://www.FrazerNash-USA.com/afn168.htm "I've got 40+ year old Pirellis on it now, with new tubes, for ""push " "around"" purposes when it's back on 4 wheels again. (Surprisingly, the " Pirellis are uncracked and have a lot of tread.) And I've acquired a "mix of newer Michelin X and Dunlops for initial motoring, whenever that " comes about. Something like the Avons would be a step up and solving the radial/cross-ply issue is too distant to think about. "BTW, I've always been missing one wheel, which was apparently destroyed " "in the accident that took the Nash off the road. I know these disc, " "knock-offs are hard to come by, so perhaps I need to run an ad in the " """wanted"" section of the new ""classifieds"". I believe there are a few " ads posted already: http://www.FrazerNash-USA.com/classifieds/ "And it's a glorious, sunny fall day in Southern California! " "Bob S, in Burbank " "> In article <3A036979.6FE9@pacbell.net>, " > Bob Schmitt wrote: > [snip] "> > Would love to have these at double the price for my Frazer Nash, " > > still under restoration! > Wish they'd been 5.50 x 16 Cross Plys ;..( > Does the Nash normally run on Radials then Bob? > The other Bob. Bob C.. > Cripes this is confusing!:-) "Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 12:15:55 -0500 " From: Peter McGough Subject: Re: 401 Oil Filter Organization: Microsoft Corporation References: <002001c04579$724ecc60$5b49883e@freeserve.co.uk> "Derek, " This seems like a good idea. If you could pass on how to do this and where the parts may be obtained I think it will be of interests to many owners. Peter ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Derek Hughes"" " "Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 4:35 AM " Subject: Fw: 401 Oil Filter > Peter McGough you wrote on "> Friday, November 03, 2000 12:17 AM " > Subject: 401 Oil Filter > > Can anyone provide info on a replacement filter element (volks) for a 401? > If you wish to retain the original canister and just replace the filter > element there is a conversion unit available to fit inside and then use a "> Mercedes oil filter element, this works on the same principle as the " Bristol > i.e. oil down the centre of the filter. Alternatively there is an adaptor > available to fit onto the oil filter body which enables a modern canister > element to be used. I prefer the former since this looks more original but > if you let me know your preference I can let you know where to obtain > same. > Derek. > > To post to Forum use the Email address Forum@boc.net > > To leave send a blank mail with Subject SIGNOFF Forum "Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:37:13 -0800 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: various matters " Hello Bristol Enthusiast, " I run Dunlop RS5's on all my Bristols and I am very pleased with the results. The do tend to slip under heavy pedaling in tight corners. The only other problem is the tend to wear prematurely when driven hard.Go figure. I ran these on my 409 in a rally with Shane deBurca as co pilot and he even remarked on how well they performed. You can read that story on the Bristols of America Website. As far as wood clear stripping I use a heat gun and a smooth putty knife. The heat gun softens the old clear very well. Best Regards "Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 18:53:04 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Turbospeeds Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Hi BOB C and SCH. " I think you might be getting a bit over excited. Was there a ""0"" missed " off the price i.e £200 instead of £20 it would be more realistic "One of you wrote on Saturday, November 04, 2000 4:01 PM " Subject: Re: Turbospeeds "> In article <3A036979.6FE9@pacbell.net>, " > Bob Schmitt wrote: > [snip] "> > Would love to have these at double the price for my Frazer Nash, " > > still under restoration! > Wish they'd been 5.50 x 16 Cross Plys ;..( > Does the Nash normally run on Radials then Bob? > The other Bob. Bob C.. "Our local club TYMC get a good deal for 5.50 by 16"" Avon Tourmasters,if you " are interested give my a call B.C or BSC (excluding postage!!!!) or anyone else. > Cripes this is confusing!:-) It sure is!!!!!.... but I think we understand. Derek "Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 12:09:19 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Turbospeeds & Frazer Nash "Bob, " Tried to post an ad on your classifieds site but got this error ERROR: ILLEGAL ENTRY Your classified ad cannot contain the characters '<' or '>' anywhere in it. Please try again. The thing is my ad didn't contain those characters! "Regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 11/5/2000 " "Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 12:51:11 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: price for 411 and 412 S1 exhaust manifold barrel nuts Newly manufactured batch of barrell nuts will be available shortly for Bristol 411 and 412 exhaust manifolds. These are the nuts which hold the exhaust manifolds onto the engine block. These are no longer available from Chrysler and invariably seize onto the studs in the engine block studs if they have been on the car for several years. "These will suit any Chrysler 383,400 or 440 cid big block engine, " as used in other marques such as Jensen and Monteverdi. They do NOT suit the 360 cid engines. Price AUD $12.50 per nut plus postage and packing. email me directly at khoward@bigpond.net.au to order or fax on 613 9596 0455 Kevin Howard Member or BOC and BOCA "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 11/5/2000 " "Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 09:36:13 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Re: Spares Available/Wanted. Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services References: <002a01c0387e$11dced60$c660883e@freeserve.co.uk> Hi Bob. I have just got back from Nottingham where I am rebuilding my Bristol B400 85 "A engine to improve the H.P., new pistons and high lift camshaft. Upon my " return I decided to go throuh my mail and surf the Net. I must say that I am very impressed with the Imperial Website the content is "excellent and easy to follow,but I found the Frazer Nash web a little " outdated unless I am not using it properly Ref your e mail on the 25/5/00 re Frazer Nash rebuild did you find a contact?. Regards Derek "Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 13:26:41 +0000 " From: michael brennan Subject: 518 Transmission anyone.... References: <61A2ED692939D31184BD0008C791F7AA0355F2A6@ukcormsx01> "Since my Brigand blew up, I'm considering replacing my TF 727 3 speed " for a 4 speed. I've done the rounds in the UK of how fellow members have achieved this.... but anyone tried a Chrysler 518 4 speed transmission? It apparently bolts into existing holes on the 360cu engine. The 518 is used on dodge trucks in the US and a recon unit is available from the US for $1500 plus $300 shipping. Is this worth considering? The "lock up convertor is available for $125, but it may be more trouble than " its worth. Apparently getting the balance between it not locking up and locking up when its not supposed to is tricky. I can't afford the Blenheim unit although I'm sure its well matched to the engine and hence probably worth the price. cheerio Mike Brennan "Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 12:13:17 +0000 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: RE: Help! Anecdotal History of Bristol Cars needs data. Stefan Answers from a non-BO within<<< Douglas W. -----Original Message----- From: Cembrowicz@cs.com [mailto:Cembrowicz@cs.com] Sent: 02 November 2000 19:46 Subject: Help! Anecdotal History of Bristol Cars needs data. Dear Fellow-Bristoleer; I've thought for a long time that we should start to collect people's personal reminiscences of owning/driving/fettling/selling these remarkable "cars, as a resource for each other/future generations, or just winter " fireside reading. Please could you indulge me by letting me have your best anecdotes to "put on file; hopefully aimed one day for some sort of publication, via " Bulletin or whatever. " Please omit any questions you find dull, and insert better ones if you " have any. " Scurrilous contributions welcome, and may be anonymous if you prefer. " "Please reply on this, or email your efforts in the shape of a file Word can " read directly to me at cembrowicz@cs.com thanks for all efforts gratefully received..... Bristol Cars Verbal History What is your name/occupation/location? When did you first see a Bristol car? << Subject: Re: Help! Anecdotal History of Bristol Cars needs data. References: <92.bf22d9f.27331e73@cs.com> > Dear Fellow-Bristoleer; > I've thought for a long time that we should start to collect people's > personal reminiscences of owning/driving/fettling/selling these remarkable "> cars, as a resource for each other/future generations, or just winter " > fireside reading. Great Idea. > Please could you indulge me by letting me have your best anecdotes of course "> Please omit any questions you find dull, and insert better ones if you " > have any. > Bristol Cars Verbal History > What is your name/occupation/location? "Nicholas Keith Challacombe/ Retired Civil Engineer, Garage owner and " property developer./ I live in Bury St Edmunds Suffolk. > When did you first see a Bristol car? 1960 the day I started work. "> Have you had any connections with Filton/BAC/British Aerospace, or " contacts > with its workforce? No. Who have you met at/from the factory? The work only Brian Morelli and Tony Crook both in London and at Concours > What was the first Bristol car you ever owned? (model/reg no /chassis no. if > to hand) 1961 Bristol 407 Chassi no 60028 How much did it cost? £8500. How did you come to acquire it? Jun-99 > Describe which Bristols you have owned? Thats it. Name (a few) other vehicles you've > also owned. 1938 Ford 8 in 1961 ( First Car) 1952 Singer SM1500 in 1962 ( second car) 1963 Austin Mini Super in 1963 (third car) 1961 Singer Gazelle series 3 convertable in 1965 1960 Peerless 2 litre 1n 1966 "Then a succesion of Firms fords , Anglia, Cortina Mk I, the a Vauxall Victor " "Estate, then a Saab 96 Estate then Audi 100 then Alfa Romeo GTV. " "I then bought my own garage and had Jeep, Daihatsu and TVR for a while. " Lost TVR and Jeep in 1983 Fuel Crisis. Kept Daihatsu and took Proton in 1992. Ended up with driving Dahatsu Foutrak TDX SE until 2000. "Now own 1961 Bristol 407, 1980 Daihatsu Charade ( Ist car I sold ) , 1999 " Daihatsu Terios plus for wife and I have a Mercedes E300 Turbo Diesel. > How many miles do you think you have done in Bristols? 1500 > Which of these journeys has the best memories for you? To Aldborough on a sunny day and the first Concours I attended at Telford in 1999 > What is it in particular about Bristol cars that appeals to you? "The quality, the sheer Britishness of it , it is an anacronisn and somehow " has survived and long may it do so. > Which is your favourite model and why? "Bristol 407, I looked long and hard for one when I was ill with cancer , it " was the first with a V8 and had all the 2 litre things I like from the 405 forward.. "I like v8,s and Automatics. " > What are their best - and worst - driving characteristics? Lack of cooling to the interior. Lack of power steering although now mine is back on cross plies pumped up a bit it is a lot better. "A fantastic car for the 1960,s and it still holds its own on the road today. " > Have you ever visited the factory? "No , I wish I could. " When? see above > What were your impressions? N/A What was going on when you were there? N/A > What work have you had done on your car(s) and by whom? N/A Any pitfalls? N/A > What has been the biggest bill you've incurred on a Bristol? Before I sold my garage I had to replace the Distributor as a small key had "broken off, so at the same time I took out the engine and replaced the rear " "oil seal which was leaking , renewed the timiming chain , reconditioned the " "carburetor , rebuilt the radiator, replaced all the core plugs, put on a " twin contact breaker distributorand replaced the mechanical fuel pump with an electric one. "Loads of money in all but well worth it in the long run , I did not touch " "the heads as the car has only done 80,000 miles on the basis that if it aint " broke why fix it. Someone had reupholsted it at a cost of £3500.00and in 1989 had it recarpeted and the dash pads redone at the factory and a recon gearbox all "for the sum of £2,000. " "> Have you taken part in any competitions, events or rallies in your " Bristol? Local runs and the 1999 Coys Festival and 1999 Concours but was not well enough this year but will try better next year !!. > What is the most remarkable incident you can recall when in a Bristol car? A core plug blowing a 100mph on the way back from 1999 concours. > What is the best design/engineering aspect of these cars? The spare wheel location. And the worst? The single skin rear end with no chassis. > Which model would you like to own next? My wife wants a 400 Why? She loves the shape. > Any secret tips or hints (structural or functional) to pass on to a would-be > owner? "Check out the rear ends of the 406 onwards very carefully, I turned down " many cars before mine as they where rotten. > What would your ideal/dream specification be for the next model? "The Fighter with room for an Eighteen stone 6'2"" " No 8 and Two sets of Golf Clubs a partner and a Targa top. > How do you see the future of the marque? I would love it somehow to carry on but I have my fears and doubts. Kind regards Nick Challacombe "Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:57:12 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Leather restoration - Greg Woods "On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 19:16:14 -0500, Peter McGough A0wrote: " >Is it possible to use the original description of the colour as a method of >obtaining the correct dye. "Peter, " Probably from Connolly because they coloured the leather in the first place. I doubt whether Woolies could help unless you can send a sample of the colour. Can you not cut a small sample of the original leather from under one of the seats ? You would need to take the hessian off first. It sounds like your seats may be the same colour as my 411. If you want I can email directly to you a photo of the seats from my 411. If your seats were the same colour then Woolies can prepare the same colour matched 'renovating' liquid that they did for me. They keep details on file of what pigment mix they used for each batch. Once I sent Woolies a good sample of the leather they were spot on with the colour match. It didn't look right when it was first applied but once it was dry it was almost indistinguishable from the original colour. Alternatively Connolly have an extensive archive holding small samples of the hide which they used on each individual car going back several decades. I would also ask Woolies if their cleaner is the same as hydrophane oil. If it is not I would still go over the leather with their cleaner product before applying their coloured renovating liquid. By the way there is one direction that Woolies give which I do not agree with. They suggest treating the leather with hide food after cleaning and before colouring " if the leather is particularly dry. I tried this, following " " their instructions, and it was a disaster, the renovating liquid " would not adhere to the leather. The Woolies coloured renovating product does not completely seal the leather and allows subsequent treatment with hide food. "Regards, " Kevin Howard "On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 19:16:14 -0500, Peter McGough A0wrote: " >Is it possible to use the original description of the colour as a method of >obtaining the correct dye. I have been restoring the seats in my 412 using >hydrophane oil. Yes it is a very long process. I am ready to dye but can I >describe the colour as Elephant grey (which looks beige to me) and get a >good colour match from woolies of connolly? >Peter McGough >----- Original Message ----- ">From: ""Richard Wells"" " ">To: ""FORUM"" " ">Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 3:00 PM " >Subject: Leather restoration - Greg Woods ">>A0Re leather restoration, I have revived a number of seats etc " and the >>A0following may be of help. Firstly of course the surface must be clean. I >>A0find that a very small amount of detergent in warm water using a cloth and >a >>A0soft scrubbing brush working small areas and frequently wiping the surface >>A0with clean water is best the idea is to remove the dirt not flood it into >>A0the surface. Allow to dry thoroughly. ">>A0Next is probably the most controversial bit, if the surface " needs to be ">>A0re-coloured I apply it now, I find using some of the waxy hide " foods tends >>A0to seal the surface and the dye just sits on the top and wipes of as you >>A0apply more. After the dye has dried and the colour looks right I use ">>A0Hydrophane, a liquid, obtainable from a saddlers shop. Applied " " with a 2"" " ">>A0paint brush it soaks in very fast, apply a coat, do not be " tempted to >flood ">>A0areas that soak up fast, then leave to soak in for a number of " " days, " ">repeat, " ">>A0after a few coats areas will start to stay wet, leave these " alone and just >>A0treat the areas that are still absorbing the oil. As soon as the oil does ">>A0not disappear immediately that is enough, we want to soften " the leather >not >>A0make it look like an oily rag! wipe off any excess and leave " to dry, the " >>A0leather should now start to look and feel soft. Reapply any more colour >>A0required and then seal the surface following the manufacturers >instructions >>A0(Woolies and Connoly supply the dyes and surface sealer) The main things >to ">>A0remember are not to strain the leather whilst it is dry, it " will crack or >>A0tear very easily but most importantly leave as much time as possible >between ">>A0applications, the longer the better, I took six months on my " 412 rear >seats >>A0but the result was well worth the time.Hope this is of help. >>A0from Richard Wells. Chiltern Section. A0 wellsrj@lineone.net >> >> >>A0-- >>A0To post to Forum use the Email address A0Forum@boc.net >>A0To leave send a blank mail with Subject A0SIGNOFF Forum >> "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 07/11/2000 at 9:57:05 " PM "Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 18:27:16 +0000 " From: Geoffrey Hawkins Subject: Re: Leather restoration - Greg Woods Re Peter McGough's query on leather colour. The seats in my 410 are Elephant "Grey (original sales paperwork) and they are definitely grey and not beige, " so be careful. Geoff Hawkins > I am ready to dye but can I > describe the colour as Elephant grey (which looks beige to me) and get a > good colour match from woolies of connolly? > Peter McGough "Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:56:24 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Cancel-barrel nuts offered for sale Please disregard my previous posting offering barrel nuts for sale. I have discovered that the quote I had to manufacture these did not include the correct grade of steel. The manufacturers are going to re quote therefore my sale price will change if the difference is significant. Also I have discovered that these nuts do NOT suit the 383 cid engines if they are fitted with the original manifolds. It is possible to fit manifolds made for a 400 cid engine (Bristol 411 and 412 S1) to the 383 in which case they would be suitable. Apologies for any inconvenience I will publish a new price shortly. Having never looked that closely at a Bristol 411 with a 383 Chrysler engine I am not sure if Bristol used the original 383 exhaust manifolds. If they did it is worth noting that the manifolds for the 400 cid (and 440cid) engines can be " interchanged, because the original 383 manifolds apparently " crack easily and new ones are no longer available. I am also told that the later 400 series manifolds breathe better than the original 383 manifolds. Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 08/11/2000 at 1:19:20 " PM "Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:32:05 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: narratives for stefan please "Thanks for those who/ve started the ball rolling with anecdotes, scurrilous " "tales, and hard data. Please reply to me directly rather than to the forum as " a whole my address is cembrowicz@cs.com many thanks Stefan "Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:28:19 +0000 " From: Douglas Wilson Subject: FW: From 401 to Bl**** ****! > Or how a VERY beautiful lady was caused to lose her dignity ( and > deportment! ) to costly and catastrophic effect..... "> Full photo story ""Truck and Driver"" Nov 2000 p 10 RH column. " "> ""Beaver"" jokes not appropriate in this context :) " > D. BTW result of prior private e-correspondence: Q: Bob should this go on the forum? "A: ""Absolutely if it's not profane!"" " "Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 11:41:18 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: narratives for stefan please Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services Stefan. "You wrote on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 7:32 PM " Subject: narratives for stefan please "> Thanks for those who/ve started the ball rolling with anecdotes, " scurrilous "> tales, and hard data. Please reply to me directly rather than to the forum " as > a whole my address is cembrowicz@cs.com many thanks Stefan Why? I find the anecdotes rather interesting reading. Please keep them "coming. Some people are gifted at writing stories, others are only " engineers. Derek. The Quiet Survivor @ Stockton on Tees :- the end of the line for the "first passenger railway service, Locomotive No1, designed by Robert " Stephenson and it's speed was 4 mph. The home of Johnny Walker who invented "the friction match and nearby, the famous explorer Captain James Cook and " "his ship Endeavour, just to mention a few. Is that right D.W, anymore?. " Nothing to do with Bristols but it is true. Is this allowed Postmaster after all it is modes of transport? Another interesting piece of transport is the only known working Transporter Bridge which crosses the river Tees and carries passengers and cars. I thing the other one in Wales is now defunct. The "area is famous for heavy industry such as iron, steel, chemicals and " "mining, close to sea and wide open countryside. " "Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:41:49 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Fw: narratives for stefan please References: <001e01c04a4b$67d21e00$cf06883e@freeserve.co.uk> "In article <001e01c04a4b$67d21e00$cf06883e@freeserve.co.uk>, " Derek Hughes wrote: > Is this allowed Postmaster after all it is modes > of transport? Well I fail to see the connection with the workings of Forum nor do I see a positive link with Bristol other than the slight reference to Transportation but the links are nearer to Star Treck than to Bristol "cars, Tramways, Buses, or Related Flight but since its not profane I " guess its up to the users whether they choose to read or ignore. As far as the request by Stefan for stories to go direct to him... He is correct. You perhaps miss the point intended. As I understand it the intention is to present these items to club members via Bulletins or Newsletters or as a separate compendium so it won't be of much interest if its already been seen... if you see what I mean. How it ends up depends on the response of course. That there has been some response is pleasing. Why don't you encompass your anecdotes of motoring in the story of how you came to be a Bristol owner and send it to Stefan?:-) I look forward to reading of your escapades one day... Hope this helps Bob Charlton "Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:51:47 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Fw: narratives for stefan please "yes, more scurrilous anecdotes needed. Please add to my topic list; Worst " "calamity in a Bristol car; details of any accidents sustained, causes , " "effects, costs etc. " please reply direct to cembrowicz@cs.com "Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 14:55:21 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: narratives "More rumours, innuendo, scurrilous and libellous rant, cant and gossip " please. Stefan ps but no more austin a35 stories thanks. "Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:48:35 +0000 " From: John Emery Subject: Re: From 401 to Bl**** ****! References: Eh? ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Wilson "Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 10:28 AM " Subject: FW: From 401 to Bl**** ****! > > Or how a VERY beautiful lady was caused to lose her dignity ( and > > deportment! ) to costly and catastrophic effect..... "> > Full photo story ""Truck and Driver"" Nov 2000 p 10 RH column. " "> > ""Beaver"" jokes not appropriate in this context :) " > > D. > BTW result of prior private e-correspondence: > Q: Bob should this go on the forum? "> A: ""Absolutely if it's not profane!"" " "Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 20:53:29 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: From 401 to Bl**** ****! Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""Douglas Wilson"" " " Wrote on Thursday, November 09, 2000 10:28 AM " Subject: FW: From 401 to Bl**** ****! " > > Full photo story ""Truck and Driver"" Nov 2000 p 10 RH column. " Please can you send a copy?. This could be blasphamous and therefore profane!!!!!!!Watch this space...... D. @Stockton on Tees. "Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 21:53:41 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Fw: narratives for stefan please Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""Bob Charlton"" Postmaster@boc.net > " "Wrote on Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:41 PM " Subject: Re: Fw: narratives for stefan please As far as the request by Stefan for stories to go direct to him... He > is correct. You perhaps miss the point intended. "More like forgot, my one braincell soon gets over loaded. But my comments " "were true, there is not very much interesting material to read on the Forum " "lately and I now have an ""ANECDOTES FILE"". What am I going to put in it?. " > Why don't you encompass your anecdotes of motoring in the story of > how you came to be a Bristol owner and send it to Stefan?:-) I look > forward to reading of your escapades one day... "I could do sometime when I get a spare minute, but it's probably fairly " "boring. To busy Rebuilding things, upgrading the Brakes to 405 spec, " fitting Anti-roll Bar collating Spare Part Nos and making Overdrives at the moment. I will perhaps consider your suggestions when I write my Memoirs if I still have a braincell left. > Hope this helps "Not really , but it did re-aligns the braincell :-). " Derek @Stockton on Tees U.K. "Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:53:28 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: Fw: narratives for stefan please "On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:41:49 +0000 (GMT), Bob Charlton A0wrote: " ">In article <001e01c04a4b$67d21e00$cf06883e@freeserve.co.uk>, " >A0A0Derek Hughes A0wrote: >As far as the request by Stefan for stories to go direct to him... He >is correct. You perhaps miss the point intended. >As I understand it the intention is to present these items to club >members via Bulletins or Newsletters or as a separate compendium so >snip< It seems that what was is intended is that the Forum subscribers should go to the trouble of writing their personal 'Bristol " story', for the benefit of the 800 or so BOC members who do NOT " " subscribe to the Forum, rather than for their fellow Forum " subscribers who may benefit from the insight into people whom they correspond with on a regular basis. "Not all of the Forum subscribers are BOC members. And, those that " are may not want to wait until stories are published BOC Newsletters or Bulletins over the next 'n' years. Of course " those that are not BOC members will never see the stories, " unless they are eventually published in a 'Compendium'. Would this compendium be a free publication (Stefan) ? "The Forum clearly has a life of it's own, as an online community " " of people who own or are simply interested in, Bristol motor " cars. I think the (on-line) sharing of anecdotal stories such as the ones already posted to the Forum will enhance this community. >it won't be of much interest if its already been seen... "Seen by whom ? ........ clearly, only the proportion of the Forum " subscribers who are also BOC members. I am sure non of the Forum subscribers would object to information published in the Forum being also published in the newsletter or bulletin of any Bristol Owner's Club. One would hope that there would be other content of interest which has not come from contributors to the Forum. "Regards, " "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 10/11/2000 at 1:53:05 " PM "Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:30:16 -0500 (EST) " From: Davedaleok@aol.com Subject: 403 chassis poser. "dear forumers, " i wonder if anyone can help with this one : "at the back end of my 403, above and just in front of the rear u.j. ,are two " small bars which form part of the chassis and which are angled outwards to form a ' /\ '. welded to the long arms of the ' /\ ' bars are two identical smallish semicircular lugs - the arcs face inwards towards each other ( a drawing would be handy here but i understand that attachments are not allowed ! ). logic seems to suggest that a small crossbar should stretch between them to resemble an ' A ' but only one of the lugs is drilled and capable of taking a bolt. the other lug is blank. if my surmise is correct and there should indeed be a crossbar joining the "two diverging arms, would there be any harm done in leaving it off or should " i drill the virgin lug to take a bolt and make up and fit a crossbar ? any ideas would be welcome please. dave dale. ( davedaleok@aol.com ) "Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:49 +0000 " From: djw@star.le.ac.uk Subject: RE: 403 chassis poser. "Dave, " Without getting underneith I think my 400 has a threaded spreader bar joining the two V- arms. I would assume that yours is original fitting and if its come this far without a problem I'd leave it alone. It must be that it was found that the chassis fittings were strong enough to hold the radius arms without any additional assistance. Dave W ----Original Message----- >From: 09Davedaleok@aol.com >To: 09forum@boc.net >Subject: 09403 chassis poser. >Reply-To: 09Forum@boc.net >Date: 0910 November 2000 20:30 > " >dear forumers, " > >i wonder if anyone can help with this one : " >at the back end of my 403, above and just in front of the rear u.j. ,are two " >small bars which form part of the chassis and which are angled outwards to >form a ' /\ '. welded to the long arms of the ' /\ ' bars are two identical >smallish semicircular lugs - the arcs face inwards towards each other ( a >drawing would be handy here but i understand that attachments are not allowed >! ). logic seems to suggest that a small crossbar should stretch between them >to resemble an ' A ' but only one of the lugs is drilled and capable of >taking a bolt. the other lug is blank. > >if my surmise is correct and there should indeed be a crossbar joining the " >two diverging arms, would there be any harm done in leaving it off or should " >i drill the virgin lug to take a bolt and make up and fit a crossbar ? > >any ideas would be welcome please. > >dave dale. ( davedaleok@aol.com ) > > > >-- >To post to Forum use the Email address Forum@boc.net >To leave send a blank mail with Subject SIGNOFF Forum > > "Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:36:58 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: narratives ... "Thanks for those whove replied, and to those who are toiling away to do so. " I hope Ill get enough critical mass of these to put them together in an intersting way . Am already gathering some gems....patience and they will be shared among the enlightened... Could I ask everybody in the Forum to forward this questionnaire on to anyone you know who might also like to take part? Stefan Cembrowicz Further copy below plus a few additions. Dear Fellow-Bristoleer; I've thought for a long time that we should start to collect people's personal reminiscences of owning/driving/fettling/selling these remarkable "cars, as a resource for each other/future generations, or just winter " fireside reading. Please could you indulge me by letting me have your best anecdotes to "put on file; hopefully aimed one day for some sort of publication, via " Bulletin or whatever. " Please omit any questions you find dull, and insert better ones if you " have any. " Scurrilous contributions welcome, and may be anonymous if you prefer. " "Please email your efforts in the shape of a file Word can read, not to the " Forum but directly to me at cembrowicz@cs.com Bristol Cars Verbal History What is your name/occupation/location? When did you first see a Bristol car? " Have you had any connections with Filton/BAC/British Aerospace, or contacts " with its workforce? What was the first Bristol car you ever owned? (model/reg no /chassis no. if to hand) How much did it cost? How did you come to acquire it? Describe which Bristols you have owned? Name (a few) other vehicles you've also owned. How many miles do you think you have done in Bristols? Which of these journeys has the best memories for you? What is it in particular about Bristol cars that appeals to you? Which is your favourite model and why? What are their best - and worst - driving characteristics? Have you ever visited the factory? When? Who have you met at the factory? What were your impressions? What was going on when you were there? What work have you had done on your car(s) and by whom? Any pitfalls? What has been the biggest bill you've incurred on a Bristol? " Have you taken part in any competitions, events or rallies in your Bristol? " What is the most remarkable incident you can recall when in a Bristol car? Biggest calamity? Any accidents or near misses? What is the best design/engineering aspect of these cars? And the worst? Which model would you like to own next? Why? " Any lessons learnt, secret tips or hints (structural or functional) to pass " on to a would-be owner? What would your ideal/dream specification be for the next model? How do you see the future of the marque? Dr. Stefan Cembrowicz "Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:56:31 +0000 " From: Kevin Jones Subject: Some naive 401 questions ... "Hi, " I probably ought to be talking to Bristol Cars before troubling you "folks, so sorry if I'm asking things that I should know the answer to " already. It looks as though I am on the verge of buying my first "Bristol, a '51 401. The car has the following significant faults: " (1) The king pins need replacing "(2) All the dampers are leaking - just a smidgin on the front, but " quite significant on the back (3) It needs a new clutch (1) and (2) would be MoT failures on a modern car - testers are more tolerant with classics (the car has a 2 month old MoT) but I really do "prefer cars that drive properly, regardless of how old they are! So can " "somebody can advise me whether the parts are available, whether there " "are workarounds if not, and approximately how much money and how much " work is involved? "Many thanks in advance, " Kevin "Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:13:10 +0000 " From: Kevin Jones Subject: More goofy 401 questions "Twice in one evening ... again, I'd greatly appreciate any answers you " have on the following. "Firstly, ""my"" 401 is completely corrosion free. I'd like to keep it " that way. I'm wondering if there's any clever electrolytic way to do "this, by passing a current between the steel frame and the aluminium " body panels. I could probably dig out my old chemistry notes and figure "out how to do this in theory, but it would save me a lot of work if " somebody has done this in practice (and if it works ...) "Secondly, I'm interested in disconnecting the semaphore indicators, " "since other road users don't exactly expect to see these nowadays, and " installing a modern flashing system - taking care not to do anything "irreversible, of course. At the front, you could replace the white " foglight bulb with a white or orange indicator bulb (who needs foglights on a classic anyway?) and make the necessary wiring changes. At the "rear, it looks as though the only thing you could do without butchering " the car would be to flash the red stop/tail lamp a la USA. So: "(a) Is this legal? According to the book I have, a pre-1965 car can " "have either semaphores or flashers, and if flashers are used then they " can be either amber or red at the back and either amber or white at the front. But can the flashers and the tail/stop lights definitely be one "and the same? I presume they can, otherwise every Yank tank would be " illegal ... (b) Has anybody actually done this? I don't have a problem doing the "work, but why reinvent the wheel? " "Many thanks, " Kevin " Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:06:43 +0000 " "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:37:01 +0000 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Re. Kevin Jones questions etc. "First I am a little confused over Kevins two emails, the first talks about " """my 401"", and the second where he is about to buy a 51, 401. " I do not know in what part of the country/ world Kevin resides in as he must "be a new member, well not in the members listings that I could find. First " "Kevin should try to find a local member in his area who can give you advice, " "in the long run it will save you a lot of grief, and there are a lot of " """Bristolers"" who would only be too pleased to help. " "I have had my Bristol 401 for 39 yrs, and most of that time it has been kept " "in a dry garage, but this does not prevent the car suffering from some " corrosion. "The original system used a positive earth battery, this was done to get the " spark to travel in the right direction across the spark plugs. Unfortunately "it turns the whole car into a giant battery, so where you have a double skin " "mainly steel and ally., all you need is the electrolyte, ie, damp or water " "to set up the corrosive action. You can convert to negative earth, but then " it would not be original. I am sorry to say to Kevin that unless the car has been kept in the "Australian desert, there must be places where corrosion has set in. I am at " present replacing the outer floor panels on my car which run from the top and bottom of the chassis to the outrigger which the door closes on. These "looked fine until I started to remove them, screws on the chassis and pop " rivets on the outside. "On removal the ally. powdered in several places, so the new ones will have a " sealer between the steel and ally. this should see me out (I hope). "Now there is a very ""nasty"" lurking above the rear wheel arch, this a drain " tube from the rear window which passes down behind the rear trim into the "rear wheel arch. This is made of rubber, and my ones looked like dried up " cheroots which had become detached thus allowing water to run down into the space between the door pillar and rear wheel arch making a wonderful battery. You "see many Bristol's with corrosion in this area, now you know the cause!!. I " will pump plenty of waxoil down between the skins and hopefully prevent any trouble. Kevin is welcome to contact me for further advice if he is unable to find a good fund of information locally. Alan Blackwood Chiltern section turbosim@turbosim.force9.co.uk " Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:09:16 +0000 " "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:07:31 +0000 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: More for Kevin ( direction indicators ) Now spotted that Kevin is in the UK. "Direction indicators, well I have been through all that, so here is my " advice. "First I have kept the old semaphore indicators, otherwise there will not one " original Bristol left. Secondly back in the sixty's I converted the rear brake light "by use of a cross over unit, ( Morris minor etc.) so that it flashed red on " the side "you were turning, while the other just stayed red. At the front I converted " "the fog lamps to double filament bulbs (yellow), and used one for the " "flasher. THIS WAS FINE UNTIL JUST OVER TWO YRS. AGO WHEN TURNING RIGHT, I " "HAD A WOMAN TRY TO OVERTAKE ME!!, JUST MISSED DISASTER. HOWEVER, SHE " INFORMED ME THAT SUCH OLD CARS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ON THE ROAD!!. This experience made me think of how I could improve things without sticking "unsightly flashers on the rear of the car, well I came up with the answer. " The original Bristol rear light has a rear light / brake light covered by a "red dome, also a plain white bulb for the reversing light. I decided to " convert the reversing light to a double filament fitting and fit an amber dome over it. "Problem solved and now confirms to modern practice, the only thing is that " now I have yellow reversing lights. Hope this is of help. Alan Blackwood Chiltern section. turbosin@turbosim.force9.co.uk "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:59:32 +0000 " From: James Lucy Subject: Beaufighter ignition switch My Beaufighter has developed an aversion to meetings of the Bristol "Owners Club. I attended the Concours at Brooklands this year, thoroughly " "enjoyed the day, then found my car wouldn't start when leaving for home. " "Yesterday, I went to the successful inaugural meeting of the 'nascent " "East Anglian section' (per the latest bulletin), and again it wouldn't " start afterwards. After Brooklands it was thought to be a problem with the ballast "resistor and ignition amplifier, which apparently sometimes give " "problems. These were replaced, to no avail. Further investigation " revealed that the fault was with the ignition switch itself - the main "ignition circuit is making only intermittent contact, so while the " "engine will fire while the starter motor is cranking, once the key is " "returned to the 'run' position, it stops. " "Now, the questions: " 1. The switch is one of Joseph Lucas's finest. Can anyone recommend a "source? Bristol themselves are the obvious choice, I suppose. " 2. The switch is getting very hot. I am not sure whether this is because "it is faulty, or whether for some reason it is carrying more current " than it is designed for and hence has been the cause of the failure rather than a symptom. Anyone any experience? (The car has a fuel "injection system fitted with associated pumps etc, but is otherwise " electrically standard as far as I know) "3. Related to the last point, and somewhat laughable really: If the " "heated rear window is switched on and the engine is running, turning the " ignition off has no effect - the engine keeps running! Is this a known foible???? James20 "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:13:19 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Fw: narratives for stefan please Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""Kevin Howard"" " " Wrote on Friday, November 10, 2000 2:53 AM " Subject: Re: Fw: narratives for stefan please It seems that what was is intended is that the Forum subscribers ">should go to the trouble of writing their personal 'Bristol story', for the " ">benefit of the 800 or so BOC ,members who do NOT subscribe to the Forum, " >rather than for their fellow Forum subscribers who may benefit from the >insight into people whom they correspond with on a regular basis. I agree entirely ">Not all of the Forum subscribers are BOC members. And, those that are may " >not want >to wait until stories are published BOC Newsletters or Bulletins >over the next 'n' years. Of course those that are not BOC members will ">never see the stories, unless they are eventually published in a " >'Compendium'. Would this compendium be a free publication (Stefan) ? Again I agree with Kevin's comments. I believe everyone on the Forum should "have the chance to read these, non members of the B.O.C alike. After all " they are helping to keep the Forum interesting and alive. I and others I am sure will not mind reading the anecdotes again in the Newsletter particularly if they are interesting. ">The Forum clearly has a life of it's own, as an online community of people " ">who own or are simply interested in, Bristol motor cars. " >I think the (on-line) sharing of anecdotal stories such as the ones already >posted to the Forum will enhance this community. "I agree, " >>it won't be of much interest if its already been seen... ">Seen by whom ? ........ clearly, only the proportion of the Forum " >subscribers who are also BOC members. >I am sure non of the Forum subscribers would object to information >published in the Forum being also published in the newsletter or bulletin >of any Bristol Owner's Club. One would hope that there would be other >content of interest which has not come from contributors to the Forum. "I agree, and if there is nothing of interest to stimulate all participants " it will fade away. "Should we have a democratic ""VOTE ON THIS SUBJECT"" " Topic :- INCLUDE ANECDOTES ON THE FORUM :- i) all in favour put your 'X' here ii) all against put your 'X' here In the interest of confidentiality I suggest all votes are sent to me :-) Ha HA ha. If you don't trust me and are brave enough put your vote on the Forum. Derek. @ Stockton on Tees. "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:15:53 +0000 " From: James Lucy Subject: Beaufighter - brake system / Parts sources "My Beaufighter has a brake problem, again manifested at yesterday's East " "Anglian section meeting. The brake fluid level is falling quite fast, " but there are no visible external leaks. I'm guessing that the fluid is leaking into one of the under-wing mounted servos. "On my car, the two servos are of slightly different sizes - the topmost " "servo has a larger vacuum piston chamber. Is this normal, or has the " "lower, smaller one, which looks newer, been changed for the wrong part? " Can anyone recommend a source of supply for the hydraulic cylinders mounted on the servos? Bristol again I suppose. "By the way, I have had a number of conversations with seasoned Bristol " "owners where they say something like ""Oh, you want a new door handle for " "your Beaufighter. Well, they came off a Lancia Beta Coupe, 1978, or " "alternatively off a 1947 Dennis Mk. 9 road sweeper."" The question is, " given that particularly later Bristols could certainly be accused of "being 'Bitsas', is there some central repository for this type of " information? James "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:12:00 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: More goofy 401 questions Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""Kevin Jones"" " " Wrote on Sunday, November 12, 2000 11:13 PM " Subject: More goofy 401 questions "> Twice in one evening ... again, I'd greatly appreciate any answers you " > have on the following. You are doing well!!!!. "> Firstly, ""my"" 401 is completely corrosion free. I'd like to keep it " > that way. I'm wondering if there's any clever electrolytic way to do "> this, by passing a current between the steel frame and the aluminium " > body panels. I could probably dig out my old chemistry notes and figure "> out how to do this in theory, but it would save me a lot of work if " > somebody has done this in practice (and if it works ...) If it has lasted this long don't worry about it No . the secret is to keep dissimilar metal apart to prevent to avoid electrolytic corrosion. The best "thing to keep corrosion at bay is plenty of paint, oil/grease and using Wax " Oil is a good protector and insulator. "> Secondly, I'm interested in disconnecting the semaphore indicators, " "> since other road users don't exactly expect to see these nowadays, and " > installing a modern flashing system - taking care not to do anything "> irreversible, of course. At the front, you could replace the white " > foglight bulb with a white or orange indicator bulb (who needs foglights > on a classic anyway?) and make the necessary wiring changes. At the "> rear, it looks as though the only thing you could do without butchering " > the car would be to flash the red stop/tail lamp a la USA. The semaphores are accepted legally providing they are function correctly and I preferred to keep the on my 400. But I agree with your comment an therefore I did the following:- i) converted the reversing light in the existing lamp box to a flasher with a orange glass cover over "it(ex Triumph Herald et.,), similar to the red lens " on the rear light. ii) converted the wing mounted side light to a double "filament light, 5/21watt to give a " white flashing light. iii) made up a relay board to control the above which was controlled from the existing dash mounted semaphore switch an additional timer was included to extend the time of the flashing lights as I thought the semaphores were rather short for modern traffic conditions iv) included additional lights(old style glass lens) under the bumper for the reversing light and hazard warning light which I think is desirable for modern traffic conditions if you break down. Both lights are detachable for the Concourse purist. All the modifications can be made without changing the outward appearance of "the car. In my opinion, I think the semaphores dates the car. The " additional relays are located under the back seat and additional wires can be passed through the existing conduit from the footwell. Bob C did wrote an article in Bulletin No ?? (which one was it Bob) but this can be modified to suit the individual requirements and design if required. I don't like adding additional switches to the dashboard So: " > (a) Is this legal? According to the book I have, a pre-1965 car can " "> have either semaphores or flashers, and if flashers are used then they " > can be either amber or red at the back and either amber or white at the > front. But can the flashers and the tail/stop lights definitely be one "> and the same? I presume they can, otherwise every Yank tank would be " > illegal ... Yes. > (b) Has anybody actually done this? I don't have a problem doing the "> work, but why reinvent the wheel? " "Yes, good for you. If you require anymore details just let me know. For back " issues of Bulletins contact Nick Pumell. Derek. @ Stockton on Tees. "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:25:05 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: 403 chassis poser. Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " Wrote on Friday, November 10, 2000 8:30 PM " Subject: 403 chassis poser. "> dear forumers, " > if my surmise is correct and there should indeed be a crossbar joining the "> two diverging arms, would there be any harm done in leaving it off or " should > i drill the virgin lug to take a bolt and make up and fit a crossbar ? If you are referring to 'A' bracket fixed to the back axle this should have a adjustable stiffening bar to form the cross in the 'A'. Possible someone has fitted a new piece and or rubbers and forgot to drill it. Alternatively "B.C.Ltd missed it, out after all we all make mistakes!!!!!!..... including " me. > any ideas would be welcome please. If you e mail me your address I will send you a picture from the Parts Manual. Derek. @ Stockton on Tees. "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:02:45 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: Fw: narratives for stefan please References: <23574192319187@domain6.bigpond.com> "In article <23574192319187@domain6.bigpond.com>, " Kevin Howard wrote: "> Seen by whom ? ........ clearly, only the proportion of the Forum " > subscribers who are also BOC members. I don't know where this came from. ...It is not censorship... For years now - in fact decades - the 'BOC' and 'BOCA' editors have swopped their Magazines with the intent that anything included therein could be freely used by either party. I cannot speak for BRoNZ because I'm not the Bulletin Editor... but assume they also disburse data on a reciprocal basis with both 'BOCA' and 'BOC'. This also used to happen with the 'Arnolt Registry'. Newsletters are not in quite the same vein being by their nature more suited to information updates and Spares Wants/ Requests/ Bequests/ "items For Sale/ etc., etc.. It rather depends how individual Clubs " present information to their Members. I don't know how the assimilation of 'BOA' and 'Arnolt Registry' proceeds but there will surely be a similar free exchange of ideas/articles with 'BOC'... Of course some individuals may not receive the motoring stories "through the post - if they only subscribe to Forum, but since 'BOC' " also offer 'Reprints' to anyone interested and _do make them available to anyone_ interested in Bristol Cars for the sake of asking... and receipt of cost plus postage. So you see no-one is being disbarred. As far as BOC is concerned 'Forum' is simply another method of helping people with Bristol interests - but in a more direct fashion. BOC Website and BOC Domain as well as communications therefrom are funded by 'BOC' and its Members and Committee are happy to do this "knowing, that many having made contact... will probably join the " nearest Club if only in order to get even more information. Club Internet development also promotes the theme that whatever organizations participants belong to they are welcome to join in - without being pressured to join anything else. Its only fair however to put on record... that some things will _first be represented_ in the various Club publications as direct Member benefits. In other words '_there ain't any such thing as a free lunch_'. A good example of this is 'Chassis Lists' developed by co-operation "between Registrars of all clubs, being made available to all Clubs " "Members first, and in free communicated to all other known Bristol " Clubs. eg. With another hat on - I swop data with FN registrars - because we have a common interest in engine numbers... eg. On my desk since yesterday is a letter from my friend and "opposite number in the Alfa Romeo 1900 Register, who has an interest " "in tracking as I do the cars produced or bodied by Farina, having " both discovered that the Farina Body numbers of our Marques are "interspersed, we continue to fill in the blanks.. " Having said all of that... *** there is _absolutely nothing_ to stop contributors to Forum to present their 'motoring anecdotes' for the benefit or edification or amusement of others on Forum ***. They don't _in that case_ have to take the requested longer format developed by Stefan as a basis for assimilating the data he is interested in compiling. Thus I don't see why both points of view can not be satisfied. "Hope this helps, " "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:22:32 +0000 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Stephan' s survey. I do hope you do not mind Stephan but I agree with Kevan that these replies are of interest to all forum subscribers. I enjoyed reading the few that that appeared here. 1 What is your name/occupation/location? David Moody-Doyle. Freelance writer/ Publisher. Birmingham UK. 2 When did you first see a Bristol car? 1964 in Belfast it was a faded green 401. I feel in love with the shape. "3 Have you had any connections with Filton/BAC/British Aerospace, or " contacts with its workforce? Who have you met at/from the factory? Not directly but... An elderly gent approached me in a filling station and admired my 412s1. He said he had worked at Bristols and recalled my car being built ? We had a long chat but he remained true to Bristol tradition and would not talk about how many cars had been built etc. 4 What was the first Bristol car you ever owned? (model/reg no /chassis no. if to hand) How much did it cost? How did you come to acquire it? My present 412s1 is my first Bristol although I have been looking for one I could afford for twenty years. It is a 77 reg: FSC379S. 7820059. It cost A38900 one year ago. I bought it privately form an ad in Classic and Sports Car Mag. I had been looking for a 411 but could find none at this sort of price. 5 Describe which Bristols you have owned? Name (a few) other vehicles you'v e also owned. " Too many to list but they included: Daimler Double Six, Triumph Stag, " "MGs , Midgets and Bs. Frogeye. Lancia 2000 coupe, Austin Westminster, " "Saab 95, 99, Jaguar XJ6s1, 67 Pontiac Firebird 400, 65 Ford Thunderbird, " "68 Oldsmobile Tornado, Mercury Cougar, Many Citrons, DS, Cx, 2cv, Bx, " Plus the usual family / company type dross. And many motorcycles. 6 How many miles do you think you have done in Bristols? 7000 7 Which of these journeys has the best memories for you? Maiden voyage last Christmas to the French Riviera . Christmas day with the hood down over the Grand Corniche from Nice to Monac o was very special. 8 What is it in particular about Bristol cars that appeals to you? The combination of V8 power and very understated elegance . The aircraft "like, function over form design and the intelligence of much of that " function. The experience of driving a car designed to be driven far and fast. 9 Which is your favourite model and why? I wanted a 411s5 because it's perhaps the best of the v8s. Now I have come to appreciate the versatility of the 412 and the delights of open air "touring, I can forgive its foibles and compromised looks. I would not now " "want to sacrifice those qualities for a 411, but might find a Blenheim 3 " tempting if I could ever afford one. 10 What are their best - and worst - driving characteristics? Best: Effortless performance in all driving situations. Indomitable nature known. The narrowness is a real boon when pressing -on on secondary road and around town. Worst: The wiper and light switches are a curse. There is a disappointing a mount of wind noise with the Hardtop fitted - its quieter with the soft top ! 11 Have you ever visited the factory? When? No. 12 What were your impressions? What was going on when you were there? N/A 13 What work have you had done on your car(s) and by whom? Any pitfalls? New Blenheim 3 wheels supplied by factory and fitted by their recommended "tyre fitters resulted in many stripped studs which needed replacing , a rea " l botch up. Worth it in the end for the improved looks and handling. All other work done by local US car specialist. Michael Boot here in Birmingham. Very inexpensive and very high standards of workmanship. He works alone so has limited space and time but otherwise I am delighted with the work he has done. 14 What has been the biggest bill you've incurred on a Bristol? New wheels and tyres. Otherwise : New stainless exhaust system(Less tailpipes) A3260. Engine will need a rebuild soon- expect about A32000. "15 Have you taken part in any competitions, events or rallies in your " Bristol? No but attended my first BOC concourse at Brooklands this year. 16 What is the most remarkable incident you can recall when in a Bristol car? Many examples of people nearly driving off the road trying to figure out what the car was. Italian police pulled us over on the Autoroute de Sol jus t to get a better look at the car! 17 What is the best design/engineering aspect of these cars? And the worst? Best: Honesty of purpose and integrity. Strength. Versatility of 412. Worst: Bitsa quality of many fixtures and fittings on the later V8s. The renowned build quality is less evident than I hoped for ! 18 Which model would you like to own next? Why? None -I will keep the 412 and try to gradually improve its weak points. 19 Any secret tips or hints (structural or functional) to pass on to a would-be owner? Fit large wheels and tyres for improved looks and handling. Poor starting on mine proved to be caused by weak battery and starter motor. Still needs an electric fuel priming pump- if fitted with any but original type thremoquad carb. My later Carter carb empties all fuel overnight due to "evaporation, its the next job on the list. " 20 What would your ideal/dream specification be for the next model? A proper convertible and saloon version of the Blenheim successor with wider wheel track but the same body dimensions and basic qualities. 21 How do you see the future of the marque? I hope they remain true to the old ideals but fear that the Fighter project may prove an expensive mistake- too much money- and too much competion in that sector may undermine the viability of the company. "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:10:20 -0500 (EST) " From: Cembrowicz@cs.com Subject: Re: Beaufighter ignition switch false earth perhaps?suggest spray everything with Duck OIl and try again Stefan "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:19:37 +0000 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Re: Fw: narratives for stefan please References: <004a01c04d53$b166c2e0$4d43883e@freeserve.co.uk> ----- Original Message ----- "From: ""Derek Hughes"" " "Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 8:13 AM " Subject: Fw: Fw: narratives for stefan please "> ""Kevin Howard"" " "> Wrote on Friday, November 10, 2000 2:53 AM " > Subject: Re: Fw: narratives for stefan please > It seems that what was is intended is that the Forum subscribers "> >should go to the trouble of writing their personal 'Bristol story', for " the "> >benefit of the 800 or so BOC ,members who do NOT subscribe to the Forum, " > >rather than for their fellow Forum subscribers who may benefit from the > >insight into people whom they correspond with on a regular basis. > I agree entirely "> >Not all of the Forum subscribers are BOC members. And, those that are may " > >not want >to wait until stories are published BOC Newsletters or Bulletins > >over the next 'n' years. Of course those that are not BOC members will "> >never see the stories, unless they are eventually published in a " > >'Compendium'. Would this compendium be a free publication (Stefan) ? > Again I agree with Kevin's comments. I believe everyone on the Forum should "> have the chance to read these, non members of the B.O.C alike. After all " > they are helping to keep the Forum interesting and alive. I and others I am > sure will not mind reading the anecdotes again in the Newsletter > particularly if they are interesting. "> >The Forum clearly has a life of it's own, as an online community of " people "> >who own or are simply interested in, Bristol motor cars. " > >I think the (on-line) sharing of anecdotal stories such as the ones already > >posted to the Forum will enhance this community. "> I agree, " > >>it won't be of much interest if its already been seen... "> >Seen by whom ? ........ clearly, only the proportion of the Forum " > >subscribers who are also BOC members. > >I am sure non of the Forum subscribers would object to information > >published in the Forum being also published in the newsletter or bulletin > >of any Bristol Owner's Club. One would hope that there would be other > >content of interest which has not come from contributors to the Forum. "> I agree, and if there is nothing of interest to stimulate all participants " > it will fade away. "> Should we have a democratic ""VOTE ON THIS SUBJECT"" " > Topic :- INCLUDE ANECDOTES ON THE FORUM :- > i) all in favour put your 'X' here X > ii) all against put your 'X' here > In the interest of confidentiality I suggest all votes are sent to me :-) Ha > HA ha. If you don't trust me and are brave enough put your vote on the > Forum. > Derek. > @ Stockton on Tees. "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:34:43 +0000 " From: James Lucy Subject: Re: Beaufighter ignition switch References: > false earth perhaps?suggest spray everything with Duck OIl and try again > Stefan "Stefan, " Thanks for the suggestion. The problem with the switch is in fact pretty identifiable and specific; after Brooklands I re-crimped the outer casing "(made of that odd, brittle zinc-like mickey mouse metal), reducing the " "end-float in the switch shaft and, I thought, fixing the problem. At least, " it worked until the next BOC meeting! "So, by the side of the road, I took the steering wheel off, removed the " "steering column cowl, removed the switch from the steering lock, started the " engine with a screwdriver and kept it cranking until I could get a pair of mole grips on the switch to force the contacts against each other. Then I "put the wheel back on and drove home with the switch, wires and mole grips " resting on my legs. Oh the joys of Bristol motoring! Almost qualifies for your anecdotes compilation perhaps. (along with having to make sure the heated rear window is off if I want the engine to stop...) "So, having tried unsuccessfully to fix the switch once, I now just want a " new one. James "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:24:06 +1100 " From: H D Knox Subject: Re: Fw: 403 chassis poser. Earlier cars 400 etc had A bracket with stiffener. My 403 and now 404 both have the \A frame that have a vestige of the earlier format but have never had the cross piece attached Hugh "At 09:25 AM 13-11-00 -0000, you wrote: " > "> Wrote on Friday, November 10, 2000 8:30 PM " >Subject: 403 chassis poser. ">> dear forumers, " > > > if my surmise is correct and there should indeed be a crossbar joining >the ">> two diverging arms, would there be any harm done in leaving it off or " >should >> i drill the virgin lug to take a bolt and make up and fit a crossbar ? >If you are referring to 'A' bracket fixed to the back axle this should have >a adjustable stiffening bar to form the cross in the 'A'. Possible someone >has fitted a new piece and or rubbers and forgot to drill it. Alternatively ">B.C.Ltd missed it, out after all we all make mistakes!!!!!!..... including " >me. >> any ideas would be welcome please. >If you e mail me your address I will send you a picture from the Parts >Manual. >Derek. >@ Stockton on Tees. >> >> -- >> To post to Forum use the Email address Forum@boc.net >> To leave send a blank mail with Subject SIGNOFF Forum >> >> "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:36:49 +1100 " From: Kevin Howard Subject: Re: /Parts sources "On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:15:53 -0000, James Lucy A0wrote: " >snip< ">By the way, I have had a number of conversations with seasoned " Bristol 3D ">owners where they say something like ""Oh, you want a new door " handle for 3D ">your Beaufighter. Well, they came off a Lancia Beta Coupe, 1978, " or 3D ">alternatively off a 1947 Dennis Mk. 9 road sweeper."" The " " question is, 3D " >given that particularly later Bristols could certainly be accused of 3D ">being 'Bitsas', is there some central repository for this type " of 3D >information? "No, but it would be very worthwhile. " If everyone sends their info on parts Bristol sources/equivalents to me at khoward@bigpond.net.au I will put a list on my (slowly developing) web site at www.users.bigpond.net.au/webstuff else at present) With regard to your electrical problems. I have had similar experiences many years ago with a BMW 3.0 Si. I would pull off the motorway at a service station for example and the car would not start again but the wires to the front indicators would start smoking! Also driving at night sometimes the car would just go completely dead and stop when driving along. It turned out to be earthing problems as Stefan suggested. It was cured electrical earthing points on the body of the car. "In the mean time, I suggest you carry a fire extinguisher ! " "Regards, " Kevin Howard "-- Kevin Howard, khoward@bigpond.net.au on 14/11/2000 at 4:47:17 " PM "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:13:55 +0000 " From: Nic Raine Subject: Beaufighter ignition switch I have been informed that these are Range Rover items. Certainly a good place to start. My 603 also comes up with interesting electrical teasers every now and then. Like when the engine wouldn't stop after the ignition was turned off until the fan overide switch was turned off. At least your heated rear window works James. Nic "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:49:34 +0000 " From: Nicholas Challacombe Subject: Fw: Bristol Stories. "I sent this direct to Stefan, but having read others have decided to " forward it to Forum. I replied to the questionnaire but in a way which gave no stories. "My first encounter with a Bristol was actually at the age of about 8 or 9 , " a friend of the family called John Walters had about three which he kept at "Honington House , Nr Bury St Edmunds where we still live , they where a 400 " ", 401 and 403. " I know not what happened to them but when I started work in 1961 my boss one "Thomas C Stewart , an Irish American, larger than life character had a 406 " which he changed for a 407 as soon as the where announced at the motor show ", he bought a 408 when they came out and then a Mk 2 408 followed by a 409 " all these cars bore the registration plate S60. The 408 did not last long because in those days the old boy drank quite a "lot and on murky November night he drove into the back of a ""night cart"", in " "the village of Beyton on the old A45 , I remember it well as the Bristol was " dragged back to the yard full of the contents of the cart !!. The old boy was not hurt and the Bristol was rebuilt and I was very impressed at its strength!. "Later in life I sold 4x4,s for a living and these has separate chassis and " "in the 20 years I sold them , many were involved in accidents but only one " person suffered an injury and that was a collar bone from the seat belt. On retirement I wanted a Bristol and bought a 407 because of its engine and "inherent strength , its boot and elongated front end giving great impact " protection. My everyday car is now a Mercedes 300 turbo diesel which despite all its safety features is still not as powerful as the Bristol but is very economical to run. "yours in Bristoling, " Nick Challacombe. " Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:03:25 +0000 " "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:24 +0000 " From: Alan Blackwood Subject: Rear axle A bracket (attachment unit) "The cross brace between the two arms was only fitted to the earlier cars, " and "was done away with on the later models, this should not be fitted. " Alan Blackwood Chiltern Section "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:26:42 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Stephan' s survey. Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""David Moody-Doyle"" " " wrote on Monday, November 13, 2000 3:22 PM " Subject: Stephan' s survey. I do hope you do not mind Stephan but I agree with Kevan that these >replies >are of interest to all forum subscribers. I enjoyed reading the few that >that appeared here. "Thank you David, I am glad you agree. I now have something to put in my " Anecdote File. It was very interesting. What about the other Forum LURKERS??? Any comments to support Davids views? Derek @Stockton on Tees. " Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:02:02 +0100 (CET) " "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 21:01:42 +0100 " "From: ""Greene, Aubrey"" " Subject: SIGN ON "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:46:15 +0000 " From: Derek Hughes Subject: Fw: Some naive 401 questions ... Organization: Bristol Overdrive Services " ""Kevin Jones"" " " Wrote on Sunday, November 12, 2000 9:56 PM " Subject: Some naive 401 questions ... > (1) The king pins need replacing Could be an expensive job for new ones or so called reconditioned ones i.e. "ground down and oversize bushes supplied. A bit of advice, be careful what " "you invest in!!!!!! I am having a set reconditioned with a bit more finesse, " "centreless ground, built up slightly oversize to re use the existing " "bushes,again one has to be careful. If you have bought this car and you are " restoring it and you are still interested contact me directly. "> (2) All the dampers are leaking - just a smidgin on the front, but " > quite significant on the back "On the Bristol type, they may have been overfilled or the seals are leaking. " "Suggest you wash down with degreaser, check oil level and top up if " necessary. Load and unload damper and check if oil is coming out of filler cap or around moving arms. the latter indicates seals. If the tubular type are fitted on the front and show signs of leakage then these should be replaced. Shock absorbers should be checked for rebound. With the car on the ground and body weight(human) on one corner of the car the rebound when released should be once only. If this is more the shockers require replacing or servicing. This is a standard M.O.T.Test. > (3) It needs a new clutch "Parts are available, as well as a modern alternative. Not a 5 minute job. " The gearbox comes out inside the cab. Depends when the floor was last taken "up, this could take you a couple days if all the whitworth roofing bolts " are corrode in the captive nuts. Those you have to grind or drill out will require refitting. The overall job could take you a month if you don't have the right tackle. Big hammer and chisel:-). > (1) and (2) would be MOT failures on a modern car - testers are more > tolerant with classics (the car has a 2 month old MOT) but I really do "> prefer cars that drive properly, regardless of how old they are! So can " "> somebody can advise me whether the parts are available, whether there " "> are workarounds if not, and approximately how much money and how much " > work is involved? M.O.T test are becoming more stringent but as you say (1) and (2) are really failure areas. How much?????? If you farm it out you may have to take out another mortgage. D.I.Y. is much cheaper and if you have the skills and tools it is not a "difficult job. The 2 litre cars are like a meccano set, they just need a " "good set of spanners , big hammer sometimes a little heat and a lot of " "patience but not many special tools, and of course basic mechanical skills " and the desire to do it. A big garage helps as you always seem to take off lots of bits for any real job. I hope this has not frightened you off starting or is it buying I am not quite sure yet. However pleasant dreams. No job is impossible on a Bristol but sometimes difficult if you do not have that right spanner!!!.... > Many thanks in advance. No problem really. Don't think to long someone else may have bought the car when you go for it. Derek. "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:58:40 +0000 " "From: ""Charles W. Nelson"" " Subject: Beaufighter brakes "James. PAST PARTS of Bury St. Edmunds ('Phone 01284 750729 - Nigel Wigg, " "Ops. Mgr.) sounds promising for brakes, hydraulics, bearings, electrics, " etc. Club's Spares and Services Coordinator (David Crownshaw - when you can catch up with him) is also very helpful. Regards. Charles Nelson. "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:48:02 -0500 (EST) " From: Hansenlucas@aol.com Subject: James Lucy's Beaufighter I have been asked to post this reply to the forum in response to the above "problems by Charles Nelson, who is unable to post himself as he is unable to " "switch attachments off on his PC (anyone who can help in this regard, please " post on Forum for the benefit of others who are having similar difficulties and who do not wish to be told off by Bob Charlton!!). With regard to James Lucy and the Beaufighter - Brakes and Lucas switch:- Suggest you contact Past Parts of Bury St. Edmunds ('Phone 01284 750729 - "Nigel Wigg, Ops. Mgr.) should be able help. Also the Club's Spares and " Services Co-ordinator (David Crownshaw) is most helpful. "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:23:06 +0000 (GMT) " From: andrew mitchell Subject: SIGN Forum FILETIME[76111150:01C04E89] Your request to SIGNON ? Forum has been executed. - Bob Charlton "Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. " "Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at " http://profiles.msn.com. "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:08:42 +0000 " From: David Moody-Doyle Subject: Reply to Douglas Wilsons comments. "Dear Douglas, " I picked the 411s5 as the best V8 for purely aesthetic reasons. I believe that the attempt to liberate more interior space in the 603 and "later models, resulted in a top heavy look which exaggerates the narrow " track and makes the cars look overbodied and undertyred. (A problem shared "by my ""aircraft carrier"" 412) I think the later 411 models were the most " "elegant and well balanced V8s and this view it seems, is shared by many " which is perhaps why the 411 commands higher prices than the 603. Having said all that I do admire the latest Belnhiem 3 as I imagine it would offer a superb driving experience and as stated I would have one if I could afford it. Which brings me to your questions about my profession and income. "These are not I believe, questions I care to answer as it seems an " "inappropriate subject for this public, (if limited) forum. " Regards David. "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:58:47 +0000 (GMT) " From: Bob Charlton Subject: Re: James Lucy's Beaufighter References: <43.c9dcbcb.27430d12@aol.com> "In article <43.c9dcbcb.27430d12@aol.com>, " wrote: > I have been asked to post this reply to the forum in response to "> the above problems by Charles Nelson, who is unable to post " > himself as he is unable to switch attachments off on his PC I'm sorry to hear that Charles is still having problems. "> (anyone who can help in this regard, please post on Forum for the " > benefit of others who are having similar difficulties and who do > not wish to be told off by Bob Charlton!!) Might I respectfully and at the risk of being shouted at point out that there is a set of instructions how to switch off attachments when using (if I remember correctly) Outlook Express... ? to be found on the Forum page of the Service Handbook section of the website at address... http://www.boc.net/bristol/forum.html This may help. We do have a number of users who have succeeded so it is probably a minor point which is actually still causing the problem. Alas since I don't use that particular software (if you hadn't noticed in the headers) it does make it rather difficult for me to sort out specific problems engendered using other software. Let me know if there are still difficulties and I will try to get someone with the same software to make contact and render assistance. I hope the problem will soon be overcome. "rgds., Bob Charlton " "Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:13:44 -0800 " From: Shawn Thomas Subject: Ignition Switches " In regards to James's problems, I might suggest that if items were added " to the car beyond its original load configuration for the ignition system that some isolator relays be fit. I have had great sucsess doing this when adding additional loads to the circuit. I can help further if you tell me what exact changes were made. " As far as the car not shutting down when an item is left on, this can " come from a storage of power ro keep the ignition energized after the switch is off. This can also be caused by a bleeding diod or outright faulty diod. Please let me know more about the problem and I may be of assistance on this matter as I have had this similar problem with great luck solving them. Regards Shawn Thomas " Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:02:35 +0000 " "Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:56:45 +0000 " From: Alan Blackwood "Subject: Kingpins, how to stop wear for good! " "Replacing kingpins can be a very expensive business, so why not recondition " them to eliminate wear for good! The pins should be removed and checked for soundness before being ground to "remove the wear. They should then be plated with industrial hard chrome, " followed by de-enbrittling (this is a low temperature heat treatment operation to remove the trapped hydrogen particles which can cause cracking if not removed). It then only remains to have them reground and bingo you have beautiful new pins which will not suffer the wear of ordinary ones. "This process is already used on the Bristol engine as standard, ie. the " rocker shafts. This is only used in situations where hostile conditions are "found, in the case of the rocker shaft it is an area where condensation can " "strike, however, with modern oils this is not the problem it once was. With " "the kingpins it is the ingress of water which does the damage, so the chrome " protects them from this and you can fit and forget. I replaced mine over thirty years ago and had done over two hundred thousand "miles, and they are still perfect.I know one person who is at this moment " "having this done, so may be he can let us know what it has cost him. " Hope this is of help. Alan Blackwood Chiltern Section "Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:31:21 +0000 " From: James Lucy Subject: Re: James Lucy's Beaufighter References: <43.c9dcbcb.27430d12@aol.com> > I have been asked to post this reply to the forum in response to the above "> problems by Charles Nelson, who is unable to post himself as he is unable " to "> switch attachments off on his PC (anyone who can help in this regard, " please > post on Forum for the benefit of others who are having similar difficulties > and who do not wish to be told off by Bob Charlton!!). Thanks for the reply. A source in Bury St Edmunds is particularly welcome as it is quite near. "To turn off 'attachments', if you use Outlook Express on a PC: " "In the main Outlook Window, Choose Tools>Options>Send and choose 'Plain " Text' for 'Mail Sending Format' The 'attachments' in question aren't what is normally meant by attachments. They refer to Outlook's tendency to send mail in HTML format unless you tell "it otherwise. The HTML is invisibly attached to the main message, and is the " cause of my recent transgression in this respect! James "Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 09:08:21 +0000 " "From: ""Charles W. Nelson"" " Subject: Attachments unhitched? "Apologies to Bob (and all) if problems remain, and special thanks to Luke " for providing temporary link. Can't get head round cyberwizz stuff so usually do what the machine dictates. Does this make for a Forum LURKER? Regards. Lurkalot Nelson. "Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:15:37 +0000 " "From: ""Charles W. Nelson"" " "Subject: BEAUbrakes, pins, etc. " Glad message got through to James Lucy without too much extra work for Bob. (Thanks to both - and all others - offering advice before local colleague "sorted.) Here, neighbouring Sections might be interested to learn that " 400-owning Dr. Thorpe and others should have East Anglian Section fully established by next year. Alan Blackwood's guide to upgrading king pins is well noted so any feed-back on current cost would be appreciated. Also think he advised me to improve 409's cooling by top-'n-tailing existing rad and substituting core from another vehicle. Can't remember what so please remind. In recent conversation with Brian May he mentioned that the first (i.e. 'prototype') 401 with Tourin body has been unearthed but is now complete "basket case. Just rumour, or is the history of actual 'prototype' known? " Charles Nelson. E-mail calchas@talk21.com